I'm not sure if it's just because this a cooperative project with Curse, rather than a WotC-only digital endeavor, or if Wizards has gotten really gun-shy about subscription services after their half-hearted attempts previously, but from what I'm reading here, I'm having a hard time understanding why this model is superior to the D&D Insider subscription model from the 4th Ed years. Back when I had an Insider account, I was paying a monthly subscription for access to all of the content (even stuff from the magazines), a decent character builder that seemed relatively limitless in character space (so that I could manage multiple games with of characters), and the ability to print pretty much all of it. The only downside was that it was built on Silverlight, and Wizards mostly pulled the rug out from under subscribers and brought an axe down on the project during the move to 5th Ed.
This time around, it seems we have competent developers making the platform. I'm at a loss as to why a similar subscription model that generates an annuity revenue stream is such an anathema to the project.
I agree 100%. Although not perfect, the you got a lot of content with your subscription. I too would like the subscription service to be similar with all the content.
I think the three core rule books should be fully available on the site, either with the free tier or the first paid subscription tier, with access to the other book content coming with the master subscription tier, so that people don't have to pay for content twice over. I'm hopeful that there will be a way to have offline access to the compendium or to one's homebrewed content, so that DMs won't have to worry about internet connections if using this as an addition to their books.
Speaking as a DM, I'd really like a well-designed way to have access to the core rule books without having to lug around the rule books themselves. For the other books, such as Volo's Guide or Tales from the Yawning Portal, I'd lug those around because they're lighter and I'm not sure if I want to use everything from there or simply certain parts. I'm liking the site so far but can't wait to see what comes next. The subscription part of it is a huge consideration as to whether or not I will integrate it into my own game.
I agree 100%. Although not perfect, the you got a lot of content with your subscription. I too would like the subscription service to be similar with all the content.
I'm torn. I was expecting a subscription service, but there have been enough objections to get me thinking about what I really want.
I don't want to pay $50/year for just content. I have several rules systems sitting on my bookshelf (physical and digital) that I either haven't played yet, haven't played in years, or only play every now and then. When it comes time to play them, I grab a book and we go. Sometimes, I'll still reference the rules for systems I know I'll never play (again) because they have interesting ideas. I'm not about to get into a mode of renting content.
That means that subscription content only exists (IMO) to power tools worth subscribing to. Right now, there are a ton of great character creation/management utilities for 5E. There are also several functional combat tools and campaign management tools available. All of them are free or have a free tier. The big thing that would justify a subscription model would be to have higher quality tools and to have them all integrated such that my players can create their character and print it off for use at the table but I get to pull it into the combat tracker, etc.
The only way you can convince people to go all in with DDB would be to make all the different features of the package completely intertwined with each other, which is what they're working on. If they can get this right, then they have a product that is ready to compete with the current offerings on the market. HOWEVER, if the total cost of usage of this product for a player wanting access to all character options ends up being hundreds of dollars per year, I'm not sure you'll be able to convince many to invest that kind of money. Nevermind DMs who will likely need to make an even larger investment in order to run games.
They need to make the pricing reasonable to build up that critical mass of users that will turn DDB and D&D in general into the mainstream. That should be their business plan, not trying to suck every dollar they can out of their already loyal playerbase.
Did anyone say whether or not we would get a downloadable version of the content we purchase? I mean, I wish them well but companies change hands and close all the time. If i'm buying digital content here I want to be able to download a copy to my pc.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To everyone working on DDB - you folks are AWESOME! Thank you for letting us all into your beta! To the community - thank you for being the friendliest I've ever experienced in a forum!
Did anyone say whether or not we would get a downloadable version of the content we purchase? I mean, I wish them well but companies change hands and close all the time. If i'm buying digital content here I want to be able to download a copy to my pc.
They are working to have the content available offline but it will not be available at launch. They said it will be though their app..
I agree 100%. Although not perfect, the you got a lot of content with your subscription. I too would like the subscription service to be similar with all the content.
I'm torn. I was expecting a subscription service, but there have been enough objections to get me thinking about what I really want.
I don't want to pay $50/year for just content. I have several rules systems sitting on my bookshelf (physical and digital) that I either haven't played yet, haven't played in years, or only play every now and then. When it comes time to play them, I grab a book and we go. Sometimes, I'll still reference the rules for systems I know I'll never play (again) because they have interesting ideas. I'm not about to get into a mode of renting content.
That means that subscription content only exists (IMO) to power tools worth subscribing to. Right now, there are a ton of great character creation/management utilities for 5E. There are also several functional combat tools and campaign management tools available. All of them are free or have a free tier. The big thing that would justify a subscription model would be to have higher quality tools and to have them all integrated such that my players can create their character and print it off for use at the table but I get to pull it into the combat tracker, etc.
Well, the good news is that the tools (for the most part) will be free. The subscription does not give you any content other than to give you access to community homebrew content made public. What you will need to buy is any content you want to use beyond the SRD content.
I'm sure I'm not alone in this, based on the previous responses, but I would not be willing to pay for content published in books I've already invested in. I get that these are two different types of media, that there are costs involved in migrating printed content to a functional database, and that there are licensing issues involved. With my beta tester/early adopter/community supporter hat on, I'm totally on-board with that. But, with my consumer hat on, I don't wanna have to pay for content I already invested a lot of money in.
Having WotC give away a code along with the purchase of a new book that unlocks the digital content is a great concept, but it doesn't work here. Most of the potential user base for DDB already has the core books. And if a significant number of that core user base isn't inclined to re-purchase the core content, we've got a problem. If WotC was able to publish with digital tools available on Day 1, maybe codes could have worked, but that ship has sailed.
I think there may be a middle ground, though. Everyone will have access to the SRD-based basic rules for free, which is great. People want the protected content (subclasses, non-basic spells and monsters, etc), but maybe aren't willing to buy $150 worth of downloadable content they already have, on top of a subscription fee. But, who says the content packages that DDB offers have to be tied to the actual books? What if one of the packages that's offered once it goes live is just to fill in the stuff that's not included in Basic? I wouldn't pay $150 bucks to have access to the "secret" content from the PHB, MM and DMG, but would I pay, say, $25 to plug in the core content I'm missing? Yeah, probably. Or, maybe even go more granular than that...I want to play a Necromancer, so I'll dump 2.99 on access to the Wizard subclasses. $5 for access to all of the Warlock spells. That kind of thing.
I think content microtransactions may be the way to go with this. Maybe that's not how the licensing negotiations with WotC have gone so far, but now's the time to have that discussion, not after it goes live and we find out that the business model isn't working.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
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I think the three core rule books should be fully available on the site, either with the free tier or the first paid subscription tier, with access to the other book content coming with the master subscription tier, so that people don't have to pay for content twice over. I'm hopeful that there will be a way to have offline access to the compendium or to one's homebrewed content, so that DMs won't have to worry about internet connections if using this as an addition to their books.
Speaking as a DM, I'd really like a well-designed way to have access to the core rule books without having to lug around the rule books themselves. For the other books, such as Volo's Guide or Tales from the Yawning Portal, I'd lug those around because they're lighter and I'm not sure if I want to use everything from there or simply certain parts. I'm liking the site so far but can't wait to see what comes next. The subscription part of it is a huge consideration as to whether or not I will integrate it into my own game.
Yes exactly.
The only way you can convince people to go all in with DDB would be to make all the different features of the package completely intertwined with each other, which is what they're working on. If they can get this right, then they have a product that is ready to compete with the current offerings on the market. HOWEVER, if the total cost of usage of this product for a player wanting access to all character options ends up being hundreds of dollars per year, I'm not sure you'll be able to convince many to invest that kind of money. Nevermind DMs who will likely need to make an even larger investment in order to run games.
They need to make the pricing reasonable to build up that critical mass of users that will turn DDB and D&D in general into the mainstream. That should be their business plan, not trying to suck every dollar they can out of their already loyal playerbase.
Did anyone say whether or not we would get a downloadable version of the content we purchase? I mean, I wish them well but companies change hands and close all the time. If i'm buying digital content here I want to be able to download a copy to my pc.
To everyone working on DDB - you folks are AWESOME! Thank you for letting us all into your beta! To the community - thank you for being the friendliest I've ever experienced in a forum!
I'm sure I'm not alone in this, based on the previous responses, but I would not be willing to pay for content published in books I've already invested in. I get that these are two different types of media, that there are costs involved in migrating printed content to a functional database, and that there are licensing issues involved. With my beta tester/early adopter/community supporter hat on, I'm totally on-board with that. But, with my consumer hat on, I don't wanna have to pay for content I already invested a lot of money in.
Having WotC give away a code along with the purchase of a new book that unlocks the digital content is a great concept, but it doesn't work here. Most of the potential user base for DDB already has the core books. And if a significant number of that core user base isn't inclined to re-purchase the core content, we've got a problem. If WotC was able to publish with digital tools available on Day 1, maybe codes could have worked, but that ship has sailed.
I think there may be a middle ground, though. Everyone will have access to the SRD-based basic rules for free, which is great. People want the protected content (subclasses, non-basic spells and monsters, etc), but maybe aren't willing to buy $150 worth of downloadable content they already have, on top of a subscription fee. But, who says the content packages that DDB offers have to be tied to the actual books? What if one of the packages that's offered once it goes live is just to fill in the stuff that's not included in Basic? I wouldn't pay $150 bucks to have access to the "secret" content from the PHB, MM and DMG, but would I pay, say, $25 to plug in the core content I'm missing? Yeah, probably. Or, maybe even go more granular than that...I want to play a Necromancer, so I'll dump 2.99 on access to the Wizard subclasses. $5 for access to all of the Warlock spells. That kind of thing.
I think content microtransactions may be the way to go with this. Maybe that's not how the licensing negotiations with WotC have gone so far, but now's the time to have that discussion, not after it goes live and we find out that the business model isn't working.