No prices were given but the Dragon+ interview did state basically how subscriptions will work.
Free tier: You have access to all SRD content, can manage up to 6 characters, and access any content you buy (like a players handbook).
Player subscription tier: The only difference from the free tier is that you can have unlimited characters.
Master subscription tier: Gives you 12 character slots that you can let your players use. You still have to buy all the digital books yourself but you can share them with your players.
What do people think? Good? Bad?
For me, it would depend on the prices but I doubt many players would be willing to pay much for the player tier. How many players need more than 6 characters? I could not image players being willing to pay more than about $1 a month for this. Very few would pay $5 (this is the price I am guessing). The Master tier is interesting. You are paying to let your players use your digital purchases. Me personally I could not imagine paying more than $5 a month for this because I still have to buy all the digital books. If they are going to want $10 a month for this I don't see it being worth it to me (not sure $5 is). Seems cheaper to just tell your players to use the free version and just buy the digital player's handbook (players don't need much more than this anyway) if they want more than the basic characters.
I think for me, there is another tier that they could do, which is more a month, but gives all current content.
So, a Legendary tier, $15 to $20 a month.
All currently published content is available for use as long as your subscription is active. UA content is able to be turned on / off. Character slots to share with players, that also can use that content. Unlimited character slots for yourself.
This removes the need to purchase specific content as it is released, or going back and getting the things that you want. If any of the content is updated in a future publishing, you would always have the most recent version.
I think of it like Spotify, I get all the music I want, but if I cancel my sub, I don't actually own that music.
I think for me, there is another tier that they could do, which is more a month, but gives all current content.
So, a Legendary tier, $15 to $20 a month.
All currently published content is available for use as long as your subscription is active. UA content is able to be turned on / off. Character slots to share with players, that also can use that content. Unlimited character slots for yourself.
This removes the need to purchase specific content as it is released, or going back and getting the things that you want. If any of the content is updated in a future publishing, you would always have the most recent version.
I think of it like Spotify, I get all the music I want, but if I cancel my sub, I don't actually own that music.
I agree, that is the tier I want too but I would not pay more than $10 for a Netfix style system. The problem is at $15 a month ($180 a year) you could use that money and buy every release a year and still have money left over. For me $10 a month ($120 a year) for access to all materials and to be able to share that with my players would be fair.
Let's see, I run three games regularly, that's 17 characters let alone regular NPCs, animal companions, etc. So even the Master Subscription tier won't do the trick.
Let's see, I paid $20 once to Wolf Lair's 5E SRD access (I already was invested in the PFRPG Hero Lab, needed it for the 3.xE rules) and the 5E Community Pack is a free add-on that includes UA material along with some other 3rd Party Publishers. I can pay to add Kobold Press' Midgard material if I want.
Hmmm.
While I have five players who have HL as well, the others are .pdf or paper-sheeting their characters. I'd hope D&D Beyond would make it feasible for everyone to be on the same media platform which may be the case for only one or two regular games at this point. I'm thinking my $20 investment already paid is more than enough now. Digital books can be nice, especially since every time I open a 5E D&D book another clump of pages falls out. We shall see...
Pricepoint can be discussed and would be at different points for different people.
But, I think we can agree that having a tier where the subscription gets you access to all content, rather than having to pay (even marginally) for each different resource is something that a lot of people would be willing to do.
I think similar medium is important too. My table is all pen / paper, using autofill pdf character sheets.
We print them and use them at the table, update them between sessions if need be.
I want to keep that going, so ability to print character sheets and other resources as needed would be important.
If you have paid for something that works for you, then you are good to go.
I have not paid for any resource like this, and mostly use books. Having DnD Beyond be my one stop go to place is worth it to me. I will still buy the books that interest me, but with an all content subscription, I wouldn't have to wait until i could pay for that content, or use content that is in a book that i only need a small part from it.
I mean 2x PHB, 1 MM, and 1 DMG: That's already $200 I've spent JUST on core D&D books. Add in another $50 per adventure book, $40 for SCAG, and $50 for Volo's.
I mean, with the three adventures I've purchased and Volo's, I'm at $400 in product already. I'm not sure how much use I'll get out of this site if I have to buy the books again (outside the forums)
“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
An option to add books you already have physically by a code or something, possibly the ISBN number would be helpful. I realize they probably do that but a code of some sort so that you don't have to repurchase content would be great.
Let's see, I paid $20 once to Wolf Lair's 5E SRD access (I already was invested in the PFRPG Hero Lab, needed it for the 3.xE rules) and the 5E Community Pack is a free add-on that includes UA material along with some other 3rd Party Publishers.
Hero Lab is crap. It has a horrendous interface that is only slightly better than a badly designed Excel spreadsheet. It has numerous bugs that haven't been addressed across the entire life cycle of the product. The 5e SRD uses a butchered d20 base from PF (you can see the legacy artifacts when you use the Tool, that interfere with making your own content). Not to mention the level of time investment you have to make to implement any house rules or homebrew content because the underlying build structure is so clunky, archaic and buggy that you often have to build in scripts to stop things from working so that you can get other things to work and then have to build new things to get those things to interact with other things.
It's such a huge mess. So far, D&D Beyond looks like it has competent developers behind it who are leagues ahead of where Hero Lab was when it was first out on the market. Therefore by launch, it will already be better than anything Wolf Lair could possibly do. Comparing prices between the two is therefore hardly an accurate measure of value.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
If I were a player I think I would just want to buy extra character slots past 6 rather than pay a monthly fee. I could be wrong but I don't see many players paying monthly just to make more than 6 characters. What would stop players from making a second free account?
Hmm... I guess if the meat of the tool is compendium and character sheet, then I can't really see a better way of doing it. Not exactly awesome, but no worse than anything else I can come up with for what's being offered. The big thing I'd add would be to have UA content available as part of any paid tier. The reasoning is that it's not actually core/SRD, but it's made available for free and is from WotC. I'd be fine using the homebrew tooling, though, to add that material in.
As far as my willingness to use it and what tier, I guess it depends on the exact price point and what other bells are part of it. I'd consider getting the Master subscription, if it's not very expensive ($50/year, max), just to have access to my players' characters. That assumes they'd use it -- I can't get them to put their characters on Obsidian Portal or even just email a PDF, half the time. I'm assuming that a well done character manager would help a lot, though.
Right now, I've got: aasimar Favored Soul, aasmiar Devation Paladin, human alt-Ranger, human Fist Monk, half-elf Moon Druid, so more than half the group would need expanded content and a chunk of that would be from UA. I don't really want to invest unless I'm pretty confident it's going to be of long-term use. I guess it probably depends on how much the core books cost.
I mean 2x PHB, 1 MM, and 1 DMG: That's already $200 I've spent JUST on core D&D books. Add in another $50 per adventure book, $40 for SCAG, and $50 for Volo's.
I mean, with the three adventures I've purchased and Volo's, I'm at $400 in product already. I'm not sure how much use I'll get out of this site if I have to buy the books again (outside the forums)
These are my thoughts as well. I completely understand paying for something in another medium, even if I already have it in paper form (no problem there), but a subscription fee on top of that? I'd prefer one or the other with access to creating characters and everything locked behind buying your first piece of D&D Beyond content. I don't have unlimited funds, and I feel like I'm already going to have to squeeze my discretionary funds to handle a subscription service. I am probably in the minority, I suppose, love those college bills.
Let's see, I paid $20 once to Wolf Lair's 5E SRD access (I already was invested in the PFRPG Hero Lab, needed it for the 3.xE rules) and the 5E Community Pack is a free add-on that includes UA material along with some other 3rd Party Publishers.
Hero Lab is crap.
Tell me how you really feel? *smirk*
Buggy, wonky, a general PITA to work with, yes, that's Hero Lab. A minimal learning curve later and I feel I'm getting a pretty darn good return on my $20. I've converted dozens of leveled NPCs and adversaries from OD&D - PFRPG and it's been a time saver. Custom achetypes, weapons, lots of 3.xE magic items, all inputted with ease (after figuring out that first one!). I had 14 antagonists converted in an hour last night, all crammed into one portfolio file for Saturday's venture into Red Lake Fort. Go efficiency!
My concern is "Master subscription tier: Gives you 12 character slots that you can let your players use." Twelve characters, that's it? Or by "characters" is this meant to be "active character sheets"? My 14 antagonists can still be made using an NPC/Adversary tab that spits out a 5E Stat Block? That's workable. And this is going to run me how much monthly?
My fingers are crossed and I am hopeful for D&D Beyond. I've been waiting for something "official" since that first Demo Disc in the back of the 3.0 PHB. Seventeen years later I am still waiting and this is why something as clunky as Hero Lab is still by designated "hero".
I mean 2x PHB, 1 MM, and 1 DMG: That's already $200 I've spent JUST on core D&D books. Add in another $50 per adventure book, $40 for SCAG, and $50 for Volo's.
I mean, with the three adventures I've purchased and Volo's, I'm at $400 in product already. I'm not sure how much use I'll get out of this site if I have to buy the books again (outside the forums)
These are my thoughts as well. I completely understand paying for something in another medium, even if I already have it in paper form (no problem there), but a subscription fee on top of that? I'd prefer one or the other with access to creating characters and everything locked behind buying your first piece of D&D Beyond content. I don't have unlimited funds, and I feel like I'm already going to have to squeeze my discretionary funds to handle a subscription service. I am probably in the minority, I suppose, love those college bills.
Honestly, I'm not with you on the understanding paying for two mediums (especially if it is available in an online-only version for less money). I mean, how many other mediums come with free digital copies requiring registration codes? Some books, videogames, movies, music, etc... all have that option. I don't understand why these ($50) books don't come with that as well.
And sure, this platform came out years after the original books did, but I wouldn't mind jumping through a few hoops to prove that I own the book in question. They could do something like sending the books into WotC and receiving a code for each book when it was returned (they replace book binding and other errors for free, so I don't see why they couldn't do this too).
As for lack of discretionary funds: you are definitely NOT in the minority (especially where college bills are concerned).
“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
I mean 2x PHB, 1 MM, and 1 DMG: That's already $200 I've spent JUST on core D&D books. Add in another $50 per adventure book, $40 for SCAG, and $50 for Volo's.
I mean, with the three adventures I've purchased and Volo's, I'm at $400 in product already. I'm not sure how much use I'll get out of this site if I have to buy the books again (outside the forums)
These are my thoughts as well. I completely understand paying for something in another medium, even if I already have it in paper form (no problem there), but a subscription fee on top of that? I'd prefer one or the other with access to creating characters and everything locked behind buying your first piece of D&D Beyond content. I don't have unlimited funds, and I feel like I'm already going to have to squeeze my discretionary funds to handle a subscription service. I am probably in the minority, I suppose, love those college bills.
Honestly, I'm not with you on the understanding paying for two mediums (especially if it is available in an online-only version for less money). I mean, how many other mediums come with free digital copies requiring registration codes? Some books, videogames, movies, music, etc... all have that option. I don't understand why these ($50) books don't come with that as well.
And sure, this platform came out years after the original books did, but I wouldn't mind jumping through a few hoops to prove that I own the book in question. They could do something like sending the books into WotC and receiving a code for each book when it was returned (they replace book binding and other errors for free, so I don't see why they couldn't do this too).
As for lack of discretionary funds: you are definitely NOT in the minority (especially where college bills are concerned).
I definitely see where you are coming from. I understand that the content is the same, but the work put behind each one is not, but I guess it really comes down to how they would even prove that you own the books. Doing something like you suggest would take a lot of resources as everyone and their mother who wants to use D&D Beyond would be sending their books in rather than just the customers with binding issues.
I know I'm not in the minority, but it sure feels that way sometimes when people are talking about how much they are willing to pay for this and that.
My next game is going to be a run through Phandelver, Storm Kings, and some Yawning Portal using Faerun and all the player content currently out there, plus some UA stuff. I've bought physical copies of all the books I'm running, but I want to be able to use them with DnDBeyond. So right now, I'm $360 into content for this game, and I have 0% intention of spending anywhere near that again just to use the character builder and encounter running tools. At most, I'd like to spend @$50* to get all the extra races, subclasses, spells, monsters, and magic items form the above sources. I want to be able to allow my players to track their goblin ranger, purple dragon knight, or give their mage the staff of defense without a lot or hassle and fuss, and I want to be able to find all the aquatic monsters in those sources, quick reference them, and edit and print out a unique one if I want. Honestly, I don't want to be paying more than $10 a book for a dataset of chargen options and monster stats I could (with time and effort) input myself. I'm willing to pay a convenience fee to have all of Volo or SCAG or the MM done for me; I'm not repurchasing the book again.
*In addition to Master Subscription fee, which I will gladly pay to share the content with my group. Of course, it depends on the cost as well.
An option to add books you already have physically by a code or something, possibly the ISBN number would be helpful. I realize they probably do that but a code of some sort so that you don't have to repurchase content would be great.
Anyone could add the ISBN without even purchasing the boook.... So that's never going to happen. It's possible that they could add codes to future printings but my guess is this is going to be problematic with Curse likely getting a cut of subscriptions and not from the physical purchases.
Let's see, I paid $20 once to Wolf Lair's 5E SRD access (I already was invested in the PFRPG Hero Lab, needed it for the 3.xE rules) and the 5E Community Pack is a free add-on that includes UA material along with some other 3rd Party Publishers.
Hero Lab is crap.
Tell me how you really feel? *smirk*
Buggy, wonky, a general PITA to work with, yes, that's Hero Lab. A minimal learning curve later and I feel I'm getting a pretty darn good return on my $20. I've converted dozens of leveled NPCs and adversaries from OD&D - PFRPG and it's been a time saver. Custom achetypes, weapons, lots of 3.xE magic items, all inputted with ease (after figuring out that first one!). I had 14 antagonists converted in an hour last night, all crammed into one portfolio file for Saturday's venture into Red Lake Fort. Go efficiency!
My concern is "Master subscription tier: Gives you 12 character slots that you can let your players use." Twelve characters, that's it? Or by "characters" is this meant to be "active character sheets"? My 14 antagonists can still be made using an NPC/Adversary tab that spits out a 5E Stat Block? That's workable. And this is going to run me how much monthly?
My fingers are crossed and I am hopeful for D&D Beyond. I've been waiting for something "official" since that first Demo Disc in the back of the 3.0 PHB. Seventeen years later I am still waiting and this is why something as clunky as Hero Lab is still by designated "hero".
Did you not play 4th? Fairly certain wizards had something like this for 4th.
My next game is going to be a run through Phandelver, Storm Kings, and some Yawning Portal using Faerun and all the player content currently out there, plus some UA stuff. I've bought physical copies of all the books I'm running, but I want to be able to use them with DnDBeyond. So right now, I'm $360 into content for this game, and I have 0% intention of spending anywhere near that again just to use the character builder and encounter running tools. At most, I'd like to spend @$50* to get all the extra races, subclasses, spells, monsters, and magic items form the above sources. I want to be able to allow my players to track their goblin ranger, purple dragon knight, or give their mage the staff of defense without a lot or hassle and fuss, and I want to be able to find all the aquatic monsters in those sources, quick reference them, and edit and print out a unique one if I want. Honestly, I don't want to be paying more than $10 a book for a dataset of chargen options and monster stats I could (with time and effort) input myself. I'm willing to pay a convenience fee to have all of Volo or SCAG or the MM done for me; I'm not repurchasing the book again.
*In addition to Master Subscription fee, which I will gladly pay to share the content with my group. Of course, it depends on the cost as well.
I would be willing to pay to share with my players if the price was reasonable and it came with all the content. If I have to pay $10 plus a month and also have to buy all the material again then that is too much for me. For me to pay a monthly fee it needs to come with content. Much like how 4th edition tools worked. For me there is only so much I am willing to spend on my players. I already spend a lot and do all the work. If they want to play characters beyond the free tier then they can buy the content themselve. DDB has also said that players will be able to buy just the new character options from the adventure books without have to buy the whole book.
I plan to leave it up to my players. If they want to share material they can chip in for the subscription. If not they can use the free version with what ever material they wish to purchase. I have no problem if they just wish to use the free version with only the SRD content. I do believe in making the players invest in the games too.
Did you not play 4th? Fairly certain wizards had something like this for 4th.
I missed out! Played 4E three times and I chose to go back to 3.5 and PFRPG after the third time. Ugh, my friend's books said "D&D" but what I played did not capture the experience of a D&D game I'd had in all the prior editions. I imagine a program would have helped get past the reformed metagame of 4E.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
We all leave footprints in the sands of time.
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
No prices were given but the Dragon+ interview did state basically how subscriptions will work.
Free tier: You have access to all SRD content, can manage up to 6 characters, and access any content you buy (like a players handbook).
Player subscription tier: The only difference from the free tier is that you can have unlimited characters.
Master subscription tier: Gives you 12 character slots that you can let your players use. You still have to buy all the digital books yourself but you can share them with your players.
What do people think? Good? Bad?
For me, it would depend on the prices but I doubt many players would be willing to pay much for the player tier. How many players need more than 6 characters? I could not image players being willing to pay more than about $1 a month for this. Very few would pay $5 (this is the price I am guessing). The Master tier is interesting. You are paying to let your players use your digital purchases. Me personally I could not imagine paying more than $5 a month for this because I still have to buy all the digital books. If they are going to want $10 a month for this I don't see it being worth it to me (not sure $5 is). Seems cheaper to just tell your players to use the free version and just buy the digital player's handbook (players don't need much more than this anyway) if they want more than the basic characters.
I think for me, there is another tier that they could do, which is more a month, but gives all current content.
So, a Legendary tier, $15 to $20 a month.
All currently published content is available for use as long as your subscription is active.
UA content is able to be turned on / off.
Character slots to share with players, that also can use that content.
Unlimited character slots for yourself.
This removes the need to purchase specific content as it is released, or going back and getting the things that you want. If any of the content is updated in a future publishing, you would always have the most recent version.
I think of it like Spotify, I get all the music I want, but if I cancel my sub, I don't actually own that music.
Let's see, I run three games regularly, that's 17 characters let alone regular NPCs, animal companions, etc. So even the Master Subscription tier won't do the trick.
Let's see, I paid $20 once to Wolf Lair's 5E SRD access (I already was invested in the PFRPG Hero Lab, needed it for the 3.xE rules) and the 5E Community Pack is a free add-on that includes UA material along with some other 3rd Party Publishers. I can pay to add Kobold Press' Midgard material if I want.
Hmmm.
While I have five players who have HL as well, the others are .pdf or paper-sheeting their characters. I'd hope D&D Beyond would make it feasible for everyone to be on the same media platform which may be the case for only one or two regular games at this point. I'm thinking my $20 investment already paid is more than enough now. Digital books can be nice, especially since every time I open a 5E D&D book another clump of pages falls out. We shall see...
We all leave footprints in the sands of time.
Pricepoint can be discussed and would be at different points for different people.
But, I think we can agree that having a tier where the subscription gets you access to all content, rather than having to pay (even marginally) for each different resource is something that a lot of people would be willing to do.
I think similar medium is important too. My table is all pen / paper, using autofill pdf character sheets.
We print them and use them at the table, update them between sessions if need be.
I want to keep that going, so ability to print character sheets and other resources as needed would be important.
If you have paid for something that works for you, then you are good to go.
I have not paid for any resource like this, and mostly use books. Having DnD Beyond be my one stop go to place is worth it to me. I will still buy the books that interest me, but with an all content subscription, I wouldn't have to wait until i could pay for that content, or use content that is in a book that i only need a small part from it.
I mean 2x PHB, 1 MM, and 1 DMG: That's already $200 I've spent JUST on core D&D books. Add in another $50 per adventure book, $40 for SCAG, and $50 for Volo's.
I mean, with the three adventures I've purchased and Volo's, I'm at $400 in product already. I'm not sure how much use I'll get out of this site if I have to buy the books again (outside the forums)
Click Here to Download my Lancer Class w/ Dragoon and Legionnaire Archetypes via DM's Guild - Pay What You Want
Click Here to Download the Mind Flayer: Thoon Hulk converted from 4e via DM's Guild
“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
An option to add books you already have physically by a code or something, possibly the ISBN number would be helpful. I realize they probably do that but a code of some sort so that you don't have to repurchase content would be great.
"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
― Oscar Wilde.
If I were a player I think I would just want to buy extra character slots past 6 rather than pay a monthly fee. I could be wrong but I don't see many players paying monthly just to make more than 6 characters. What would stop players from making a second free account?
Hmm... I guess if the meat of the tool is compendium and character sheet, then I can't really see a better way of doing it. Not exactly awesome, but no worse than anything else I can come up with for what's being offered. The big thing I'd add would be to have UA content available as part of any paid tier. The reasoning is that it's not actually core/SRD, but it's made available for free and is from WotC. I'd be fine using the homebrew tooling, though, to add that material in.
As far as my willingness to use it and what tier, I guess it depends on the exact price point and what other bells are part of it. I'd consider getting the Master subscription, if it's not very expensive ($50/year, max), just to have access to my players' characters. That assumes they'd use it -- I can't get them to put their characters on Obsidian Portal or even just email a PDF, half the time. I'm assuming that a well done character manager would help a lot, though.
Right now, I've got: aasimar Favored Soul, aasmiar Devation Paladin, human alt-Ranger, human Fist Monk, half-elf Moon Druid, so more than half the group would need expanded content and a chunk of that would be from UA. I don't really want to invest unless I'm pretty confident it's going to be of long-term use. I guess it probably depends on how much the core books cost.
We all leave footprints in the sands of time.
And sure, this platform came out years after the original books did, but I wouldn't mind jumping through a few hoops to prove that I own the book in question. They could do something like sending the books into WotC and receiving a code for each book when it was returned (they replace book binding and other errors for free, so I don't see why they couldn't do this too).
As for lack of discretionary funds: you are definitely NOT in the minority (especially where college bills are concerned).
Click Here to Download my Lancer Class w/ Dragoon and Legionnaire Archetypes via DM's Guild - Pay What You Want
Click Here to Download the Mind Flayer: Thoon Hulk converted from 4e via DM's Guild
“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
This thing for me hinges on cost of content.
My next game is going to be a run through Phandelver, Storm Kings, and some Yawning Portal using Faerun and all the player content currently out there, plus some UA stuff. I've bought physical copies of all the books I'm running, but I want to be able to use them with DnDBeyond. So right now, I'm $360 into content for this game, and I have 0% intention of spending anywhere near that again just to use the character builder and encounter running tools. At most, I'd like to spend @$50* to get all the extra races, subclasses, spells, monsters, and magic items form the above sources. I want to be able to allow my players to track their goblin ranger, purple dragon knight, or give their mage the staff of defense without a lot or hassle and fuss, and I want to be able to find all the aquatic monsters in those sources, quick reference them, and edit and print out a unique one if I want. Honestly, I don't want to be paying more than $10 a book for a dataset of chargen options and monster stats I could (with time and effort) input myself. I'm willing to pay a convenience fee to have all of Volo or SCAG or the MM done for me; I'm not repurchasing the book again.
*In addition to Master Subscription fee, which I will gladly pay to share the content with my group. Of course, it depends on the cost as well.
We all leave footprints in the sands of time.