I am not sure if this is the best place for this, but it didn't seem to fit in any other thread.
Last night I played Adventurer's League as I have done weekly for several months now. Last night's experience was very bad and I am hoping to get feedback from the community to see what I could/should have done about some of it, if anything, and what, if anything, I should just chill out about.
I played at a table with a group I had not played with before. Only two of the people at the table had played together before. I will get to that later. My frustrations all surround one of the players.
Actively hurting the party
When we got to the part where we all introduced our characters, this one player, whom I will call Zach (not his real name), tells everyone they need to roll a constitution save. Everyone was confused, but obliged. He then said that he revealed himself to be an Aasimar Warlock with skeletal wings or something and that anyone who rolled less than a 15 was now frightened. The DM was not sure what was going on, but let it go. Maybe this is just my personal preference, but this just rubbed me the wrong way and it was downhill from there.
At another point we were in a tavern having a round and he took it upon himself to roll some sort of check and said that he had stolen an ale from one of the other players. He found all of this hilarious. It was like he was DMing his own side game and having a great time at everyone else's expense.
Side conversations
Zach and one of the other players had clearly played together before. Repeatedly throughout the night they would bring up references to things they had done in prior games and stop and laugh amongst themselves about it. At one point, Zach even pulled out his folder with all of his old characters so he could look up what this item was that they were talking about. It was his turn in the middle of combat and we were all waiting while he waxed nostalgic with his friend.
Party of 2
Zach had no desire to let anyone else contribute to the game. Before the DM could finish setting the stage, Zach would announce his intentions and never once queried the other players -- though he did direct them on what actions they should take on their turns. His actions always revolved around getting something for his own character, never the party. It was all the DM could do to keep us actually focused on the quest at hand. I say party of 2 because Zach would interact with the other person he knew. They seemed to be having a great time. The rest of us were afterthoughts.
Inappropriate content
This part in particular made me very uncomfortable. This was Adventurer's League at a game store. It is supposed to be rated G-ish. On two occasions this adventure had us meeting up with female NPCs. Both times Zach completely commandeered the role playing to focus on his character's attempts to get these women into bed including casting spells to further his cause. Complete disregard for what the group was trying to do. Literally 20+ minutes of him role playing putting the moves on these women. Even going so far as to ask questions like, 'is she hot?' 'how would you rate her on a scale of 1-10?' and 'does she have nice t*&ts?'. And, again, he found himself to be quite hilarious while doing all of this. There were attempts by other players to try and get him back on track, but he was having none of it.
During combat one of the players whose character is really tall approached one of the women and Zach made some comment about how he could look down her shirt and asked the DM if this NPC had nice cleavage. I was seriously ready to just get up and leave. I get that it is a game and we are role playing and I have no issues with some character development. But he spent way to long on it and his language sounded more like he was indulging his own fantasy rather than playing the game.
In the end, he had bogged down the game so much that by the time we got about halfway through the boss battle the DM had to just say, 'the boss dies', because we were out of time. It was all very frustrating. It is also unfortunate that 2 of the people at the table were visting this store for Adventure league for the first time. I could see their frustration and I hope this does not keep them participating in the future.
For anyone that made it through this lengthy post, I commend you, and I am looking for any feedback you have about this experience. Has anyone had similar experiences? Are there things I, as a player, should do to try and solve these situations in real time? Do I need to just get over it?
I mean, there's a host of AL violations here that should probably by brought up with the DM and the Store Manager. You should be polite, but make it clear that "Zach's" behavior was not appreciated and that you would like to either play at a different table (if there is one) or either DM or the Manager need to do a better job policing the game for unruly behavior and tamping it down where appropriate.
As an AL DM, I do understand sometimes just letting some personality quirks slide here and there and just pushing past the situation to help get the party back on track, but it sounds like this guy is more dominating the game at the expense of the other players and that is not okay.
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"The mongoose blew out its candle and was asleep in bed before the room went dark." —Llanowar fable
As someone who's also dealt with people like this as both a player&DM I completely understand your issues with him. While some of these issues I might let go in a home game where there isn't a set time limit or in a guaranteed 18+ setting, these are not acceptable in an AL setting and I'm genuinely sorry you had to deal with stuff like this and I feel especially bad for the people playing for the first time.
Side note: As a GM if someone asks others for a check and then declares that the other player failed or they succeeded without consulting me, that's the best way to get on my bad side.
Thank you for the feedback. I think I will have a conversation regarding the last point with the lady that leads AL at this store. The other concerns are he and I having a different style of play and me having to adjust to all different types of players at the table. But the inappropriate content crosses the line into being toxic for the setting which can have a broader impact.
Well, I can completely feel for you there, I have had many players like this and I am always drawn back to something I learned a long time ago, every player looks for something different. Something that you and I would have fun playing not everyone else will, and that is true even for these extreme circumstances. That said I would like to point out, as a DM there is a responsibility to keep the table going and having fun. When dealing with a new group I ALWAYS take a few moments at the beginning of the first session to talk about acceptable actions. Many players that I play with are not interested in hearing other players talk about getting NPC's in bed, especially manipulating them with spells.
So while I refrain from the use of "Bad Player" I still think that "Zach" should be spoken to as to what Adventure league tables are okay with hearing. I hate to hear that you had that kind of experience and even more so that new players to adventurers league may not end up coming back from the experience. I would suggest that if you find yourself in this kind of situation again, that you should speak up and say something.
Zach is what we call a "that guy". I've played with several "that guys", almost entirely in AL settings.
I think AL is a great resource overall (pre-S8 anyway) and it was a huge help to me when I felt like I needed more play experience before I started trying to DM, however due to its nature, you do get a varied blend of different personality types all the time. Some are people who can't play in a home game due to scheduling conflicts, some are people who don't have other friends interested in D&D, some just enjoy the AL experience more, but some are unfortunately there because they tend to be socially inept and are likely not welcome in many home groups for very long. That last group are usually where your "that guys" come from.
Ultimately, it's up to DMs to wrangle that behavior, but telling people "No" isn't always easy to do. That's why I try to bring up where my lines are at the very beginning. I'm okay with graphic violence and morally gray solutions to problems. I'm not really into pervy stuff and won't let you spend any time doing that it if you're playing at my table.
Zach: "Is the NPC hot?" Me: Everyone is hot to someone. Roll perception Zach: 19! Me: You perceive that she's very pretty. Zach: I want to look at her boobs. Me: Roll Stealth Zach: 19 again! Woohoo! Me: You fail. She notices and covers herself and walks away. Zach: Against a 19? Me: Yep, and now the bouncer is walking over to throw you out. Zach: I attack the bouncer Me: You miss Zach: I haven't even rolled yet! Me: The bouncer grabs you and throws you out into the street. You crack your head on a rock and your character is now dead. Tear up your sheet.
(okay not really what I would do, but that would be funny)
Something I would consider is contacting the event organizer and have them work up a set of game play rules for the AL games. Discuss with them your concerns and what you would like to see on the list. Also have other players contact them if they also have any ideas on how conduct around the table should be. It shouldn't be too limiting or you may loose player base. For the situation 3 come to mind right off the bat as 1) You cannot force another player to make a save or attack another player except during a combat encounter unless they give permission, 2) You are to try and keep the conversation and conduct at a PG13 rating. Meaning no swearing (Give warnings because not everybody thinks before they talk), no seducing NPCs or other players, 3) Try to involve everybody at the table and not to dictate their actions (They are there to have fun as well).
Have it where they get so many chances before they are then banned from AL at that store for a set period of time and the time increases each time they are banned. You also have to make sure the DM follows rules and gives them infractions if they keep doing it. Also point out that everybody is there to have fun and play the game and it's not a solo game. If they want a solo game tell them to go play a video game or find a DM that is willing to run a game just for them.
Normally you want the DM to talk to the player causing trouble first, then start to resort to more drastic measures but AL games are different in that they constantly have a rotating player base. I hope this was helpful.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Remember this is a game and it's suppose to be fun for everybody. Let's all have fun and kill monsters.
I am not sure if this is the best place for this, but it didn't seem to fit in any other thread.
Last night I played Adventurer's League as I have done weekly for several months now. Last night's experience was very bad and I am hoping to get feedback from the community to see what I could/should have done about some of it, if anything, and what, if anything, I should just chill out about.
I played at a table with a group I had not played with before. Only two of the people at the table had played together before. I will get to that later. My frustrations all surround one of the players.
Actively hurting the party
When we got to the part where we all introduced our characters, this one player, whom I will call Zach (not his real name), tells everyone they need to roll a constitution save. Everyone was confused, but obliged. He then said that he revealed himself to be an Aasimar Warlock with skeletal wings or something and that anyone who rolled less than a 15 was now frightened. The DM was not sure what was going on, but let it go. Maybe this is just my personal preference, but this just rubbed me the wrong way and it was downhill from there.
At another point we were in a tavern having a round and he took it upon himself to roll some sort of check and said that he had stolen an ale from one of the other players. He found all of this hilarious. It was like he was DMing his own side game and having a great time at everyone else's expense.
Side conversations
Zach and one of the other players had clearly played together before. Repeatedly throughout the night they would bring up references to things they had done in prior games and stop and laugh amongst themselves about it. At one point, Zach even pulled out his folder with all of his old characters so he could look up what this item was that they were talking about. It was his turn in the middle of combat and we were all waiting while he waxed nostalgic with his friend.
Party of 2
Zach had no desire to let anyone else contribute to the game. Before the DM could finish setting the stage, Zach would announce his intentions and never once queried the other players -- though he did direct them on what actions they should take on their turns. His actions always revolved around getting something for his own character, never the party. It was all the DM could do to keep us actually focused on the quest at hand. I say party of 2 because Zach would interact with the other person he knew. They seemed to be having a great time. The rest of us were afterthoughts.
Inappropriate content
This part in particular made me very uncomfortable. This was Adventurer's League at a game store. It is supposed to be rated G-ish. On two occasions this adventure had us meeting up with female NPCs. Both times Zach completely commandeered the role playing to focus on his character's attempts to get these women into bed including casting spells to further his cause. Complete disregard for what the group was trying to do. Literally 20+ minutes of him role playing putting the moves on these women. Even going so far as to ask questions like, 'is she hot?' 'how would you rate her on a scale of 1-10?' and 'does she have nice t*&ts?'. And, again, he found himself to be quite hilarious while doing all of this. There were attempts by other players to try and get him back on track, but he was having none of it.
During combat one of the players whose character is really tall approached one of the women and Zach made some comment about how he could look down her shirt and asked the DM if this NPC had nice cleavage. I was seriously ready to just get up and leave. I get that it is a game and we are role playing and I have no issues with some character development. But he spent way to long on it and his language sounded more like he was indulging his own fantasy rather than playing the game.
In the end, he had bogged down the game so much that by the time we got about halfway through the boss battle the DM had to just say, 'the boss dies', because we were out of time. It was all very frustrating. It is also unfortunate that 2 of the people at the table were visting this store for Adventure league for the first time. I could see their frustration and I hope this does not keep them participating in the future.
For anyone that made it through this lengthy post, I commend you, and I am looking for any feedback you have about this experience. Has anyone had similar experiences? Are there things I, as a player, should do to try and solve these situations in real time? Do I need to just get over it?
Thank you
I mean, there's a host of AL violations here that should probably by brought up with the DM and the Store Manager. You should be polite, but make it clear that "Zach's" behavior was not appreciated and that you would like to either play at a different table (if there is one) or either DM or the Manager need to do a better job policing the game for unruly behavior and tamping it down where appropriate.
As an AL DM, I do understand sometimes just letting some personality quirks slide here and there and just pushing past the situation to help get the party back on track, but it sounds like this guy is more dominating the game at the expense of the other players and that is not okay.
As someone who's also dealt with people like this as both a player&DM I completely understand your issues with him. While some of these issues I might let go in a home game where there isn't a set time limit or in a guaranteed 18+ setting, these are not acceptable in an AL setting and I'm genuinely sorry you had to deal with stuff like this and I feel especially bad for the people playing for the first time.
Side note: As a GM if someone asks others for a check and then declares that the other player failed or they succeeded without consulting me, that's the best way to get on my bad side.
Thank you for the feedback. I think I will have a conversation regarding the last point with the lady that leads AL at this store. The other concerns are he and I having a different style of play and me having to adjust to all different types of players at the table. But the inappropriate content crosses the line into being toxic for the setting which can have a broader impact.
Thanks
Well, I can completely feel for you there, I have had many players like this and I am always drawn back to something I learned a long time ago, every player looks for something different. Something that you and I would have fun playing not everyone else will, and that is true even for these extreme circumstances. That said I would like to point out, as a DM there is a responsibility to keep the table going and having fun. When dealing with a new group I ALWAYS take a few moments at the beginning of the first session to talk about acceptable actions. Many players that I play with are not interested in hearing other players talk about getting NPC's in bed, especially manipulating them with spells.
So while I refrain from the use of "Bad Player" I still think that "Zach" should be spoken to as to what Adventure league tables are okay with hearing. I hate to hear that you had that kind of experience and even more so that new players to adventurers league may not end up coming back from the experience. I would suggest that if you find yourself in this kind of situation again, that you should speak up and say something.
-Best of Luck!
"For Those Who Can Not, We Must!" - Baeler Maug
Zach is what we call a "that guy". I've played with several "that guys", almost entirely in AL settings.
I think AL is a great resource overall (pre-S8 anyway) and it was a huge help to me when I felt like I needed more play experience before I started trying to DM, however due to its nature, you do get a varied blend of different personality types all the time. Some are people who can't play in a home game due to scheduling conflicts, some are people who don't have other friends interested in D&D, some just enjoy the AL experience more, but some are unfortunately there because they tend to be socially inept and are likely not welcome in many home groups for very long. That last group are usually where your "that guys" come from.
Ultimately, it's up to DMs to wrangle that behavior, but telling people "No" isn't always easy to do. That's why I try to bring up where my lines are at the very beginning. I'm okay with graphic violence and morally gray solutions to problems. I'm not really into pervy stuff and won't let you spend any time doing that it if you're playing at my table.
Zach: "Is the NPC hot?"
Me: Everyone is hot to someone. Roll perception
Zach: 19!
Me: You perceive that she's very pretty.
Zach: I want to look at her boobs.
Me: Roll Stealth
Zach: 19 again! Woohoo!
Me: You fail. She notices and covers herself and walks away.
Zach: Against a 19?
Me: Yep, and now the bouncer is walking over to throw you out.
Zach: I attack the bouncer
Me: You miss
Zach: I haven't even rolled yet!
Me: The bouncer grabs you and throws you out into the street. You crack your head on a rock and your character is now dead. Tear up your sheet.
(okay not really what I would do, but that would be funny)
Something I would consider is contacting the event organizer and have them work up a set of game play rules for the AL games. Discuss with them your concerns and what you would like to see on the list. Also have other players contact them if they also have any ideas on how conduct around the table should be. It shouldn't be too limiting or you may loose player base. For the situation 3 come to mind right off the bat as 1) You cannot force another player to make a save or attack another player except during a combat encounter unless they give permission, 2) You are to try and keep the conversation and conduct at a PG13 rating. Meaning no swearing (Give warnings because not everybody thinks before they talk), no seducing NPCs or other players, 3) Try to involve everybody at the table and not to dictate their actions (They are there to have fun as well).
Have it where they get so many chances before they are then banned from AL at that store for a set period of time and the time increases each time they are banned. You also have to make sure the DM follows rules and gives them infractions if they keep doing it. Also point out that everybody is there to have fun and play the game and it's not a solo game. If they want a solo game tell them to go play a video game or find a DM that is willing to run a game just for them.
Normally you want the DM to talk to the player causing trouble first, then start to resort to more drastic measures but AL games are different in that they constantly have a rotating player base. I hope this was helpful.
Remember this is a game and it's suppose to be fun for everybody. Let's all have fun and kill monsters.
:-) Something like that is what I would like to have seen happen.