Hi, I have a problem with a bad D&D group and a few bad DMs. Before I share a little bit about my experiences, I just want to say that I've been close friends with this people out-of-game for years and that I mostly enjoy hanging out with them outside of D&D but roleplaying with them is pretty awful. Issue is, when I said I was thinking about leaving the group, people did not take it well at all. At least one of the guys took it very personally (in an angry way) and I'm not ready to sever that friendship.
Example I: Our first campaign was based on Storm King's Thunder, and was our DM's first real shot at DMing (he later confessed). At the time however, he talked alot about how he felt that he was much more experienced than us and knew what he was doing (he did have more experience than us, but only because he literally played one session with some people he didn't play with again, no DMing experience). Now I'll admit, his heart was in the right place, but he was a terrible DM. We went through this castle filled with goblins, and afterwards, he completely changed the story, making it more like his story inspired by SKT rather than SKT altered. Additionally, he created all our characters with a one sentence background and in the case of my character, contradicting personality traits. He later got mad when we weren't invested in our characters, despite not giving us anything to get invested in. By the way, I never asked him to write the personality or story of my character, but I was not allowed to change it. The DM inserted many NPCs throughout the story, making each and everyone of them more powerful than the PCs. He even stated that the NPCs were more important than the party at one point, which really demoralized our group and made me wonder why our characters were doing this if the NPCs could just do it way better. The DM ended up becoming a stereotype of a bad DM. He would get mad when we challenged his logic (he hated non-good characters but allowed them in the group, wouldn't let them act their alignment), frequently railroaded (he got angry when your character wasn't just a mindless rag doll he could throw around, 90% of the time when I would try to act as my character or do something besides strictly do what he told us to, he prevented it or voided it), he made one PC the 'chosen one' that the plot focused on and admitted that the rest of us were significantly less valuable etc. One of the worst things he did was the way he behaved with characters he didn't like. Our group forcibly got split up often and he seemed to group it based on the PCs he liked and didn't like. I recall one incident where the favored group was doing their mission. Me and my friend who were playing characters the Dm apparently didn't like kept us out of the game, sitting in a separate room, for 6 hours straight. No, I'm not kidding. Then, when it was time for our mission, we were called in and the whole thing lasted 5 minutes, if that. I was really disheartened. Seperating people was pointless too, because the DM literally forced us to make our characters share our separate experiences in detail to one another upon reuniting. No one told anything but the exact truth and in metagaming fashion, one time my character withheld something he saw from the group and all the players OOC got pissed at me and forced me to share, the DM supported this. What is the point of splitting us up if it has no bearing on the story whatsoever? Ultimately, the campaign ended with a giant battle and we won the day. That DM was a terrible storyteller. He only had two characters he played: Slap-Happy and Serious. The DM's mind couldn't be changed about anything, rolling was essentially pointless because he never allowed anyone to persuade an NPC to think about or do something alternative to his vision. I can tell he spent alot of time planning out his campaign but it was a disaster. He basically never tried to get the group back-on-track when they got distracted (about every five minutes) and there were constant "jokes" or "stupid" moments in the story that were impossible to react to, because the DM wanted you to think they were funny, but also take them seriously, it made no sense! After months of this uninspired campaign, I decided it was time to retire my character and make someone I actually wanted to play (by the end, the DM changed my character alignment and his class, as he did with another member of the group). Not to mention, he created a playable NPC that was a shameless insert of himself that he deemed better than all the PC's. What a train wreck. The constant railroading and poor narrative constantly made me question my presence. I was hoping the next campaign by someone else would be better, yet it wasn't.
Example II: The next DM did things differently, I was the only one really playing a new character, one I spent a long, long time on. Apparently however, this DM made a big deal about how his campaign would be different from our first and that he'd be a better DM. While he probably was (he lacked the extreme ego/power-craving arrogance of the first) but his story was still boring and uninspired (literally, because he ripped it off from some old RPG. Anyway, this DM ended up breaking most of the promises he made to me OOC about how things would be fixed. Background hooks were still ignored and the first DM's influence lingered over the story because he did not allow the second DM to retcon some of the more ridiculous choices he made (such as making the 'chosen one' a demigod, or his own character a king and a demigod). In the end, people did not like the campaign much because the DM never gave our characters a reason to care about what was going on. I was really not a fan of "You should want to kill this bad guy BECAUSE he's a bad guy!" philosophy from the first campaign, and two times in a row was just awful. The first and second DM had a problem of telling us the way we should play our characters, and I was frequently scrutinized in the second campaign for being the only one to actually roleplay my character (who was a tough but fair type) while the rest literally just played their character based on what they would do. I also hated how they would often say, "Don't you think your character would risk his life for this place after spending a month in it? Shouldn't you protect it because you know it?" Moon logic at its finest. If I'm playing my character realistically, my character couldn't care less about a town he passed through where everyone was either a drunk or an *******.
Example III: The players. Every player but myself and two others has a problem where they are constantly looking at their phones and not engaged with what's going on, they don't put in any effort and its clear that they never think out what they do. EVERYTHING with their characters is made into some kind of joke and DMs either go along with it or aren't assertive with condemning it. The DMs were bad, but the players are really sinking the ship. Later on, some told me they never pay attention because the two campaigns were boring to them and didn't involve their characters on a personal level. I can't argue with that, but it's a poor excuse for bad behavior.
Overall, things have gotten a little better here and there but I am not optimistic about the future of our group whatsoever. I think the only way to get things on track is if I DM, but the second DM wants to do another campaign (that would make it three in a row, there was one campaign I totally missed out on). Part of me wants to enjoy this game with my friends and try to fix things by DMing, because I realize that my RP style is more serious and lore-based than their joke-focused, 4th wall breaking antics. Yet another part of me just wants to walk away and hang out with them without playing D&D, I think it might be more trouble than it's worth. I can't remember the last time I had fun playing D&D with them in a long time. I don't want to piss anyone off by leaving, but I honestly have my own life to live and I've given this group enough chances. At a certain point, I have to look out for what's a wise use of my time.
I'll leave a poll above where everyone can vote on what I should do. Please leave a comment with some advice on what you would have me do whether it's in taking a graceful exit or ways to improve the group. I appreciate the support.
Now I've not read everything but from what I've heard playing with friends first time is quite different from people you generally find on a forum or a specialised discord for dnd.
If you're bored of your game and have also write about needing help with your decision I think it's pretty justiefied for you to find another serious game you might enjoy. Doesn't mean you have to break contact or anything though.
Frankly, I'm struggling to figure out why you want to hang out with these people at all. And why they even want to play D&D at all.
Constantly on their phones. Bickering with each other. Demanding you do things, changing your character, bored with the games. These people sound like actual jerks, straight up.
If people want to play D&D, the f-ing phones have to be put away. Sorry, but RPGs don't mesh well with our constant social need to say "sup?" every five minutes. And playing an RPG is supposed to be collaborative.
Ditch these people. Don't look back. This experience is nothing like gaming should be.
If you're not willing to change your own expectations, then definitely find a new group. It's a harsh reality that expectations don't align perfectly among all the players.
I had a similar experience when I ran a 5E campaign for some friends as the DM -- I tend enjoy more serious games with lots of drama and high stakes -- on this one occasion though, the players just wanted to make Monty Python jokes, attempt to seduce all the NPCs, and steal stuff from every shop or house they entered. No interest in drama, just silly antics and hijinks. Once I realized that's the kind of game they wanted to play, I wrapped up the campaign in five sessions and proposed we start meeting up to play something other than D&D.
That being said, the whole situation could have been avoided with some discussion beforehand. Setting expectations from the beginning helps a lot. Everyone should be clear about what kind of experience they want from the game from session zero.
I would definitely stop playing D&D with this group, especially if you are wanting to remain friends with them. It sounds like you all have fundamentally different values when it comes to your tabletop experiences. While that's okay, it does mean the probability finding a satisfying middle ground is likely very low. You taking over as the DM is unlikely to change much; you want to play in a serious adventure, but it sounds like that's what the rest of your group does not want.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
I would stop playing D&D with these guys. It sounds like playing with them is only leading you to frustration. There is a good chance this will carry over into your non-gaming friendship with them.
Gaming style clash happens. It doesn't make anyone a bad person, just means you like different things.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Hi, I have a problem with a bad D&D group and a few bad DMs. Before I share a little bit about my experiences, I just want to say that I've been close friends with this people out-of-game for years and that I mostly enjoy hanging out with them outside of D&D but roleplaying with them is pretty awful. Issue is, when I said I was thinking about leaving the group, people did not take it well at all. At least one of the guys took it very personally (in an angry way) and I'm not ready to sever that friendship.
Example I: Our first campaign was based on Storm King's Thunder, and was our DM's first real shot at DMing (he later confessed). At the time however, he talked alot about how he felt that he was much more experienced than us and knew what he was doing (he did have more experience than us, but only because he literally played one session with some people he didn't play with again, no DMing experience). Now I'll admit, his heart was in the right place, but he was a terrible DM. We went through this castle filled with goblins, and afterwards, he completely changed the story, making it more like his story inspired by SKT rather than SKT altered. Additionally, he created all our characters with a one sentence background and in the case of my character, contradicting personality traits. He later got mad when we weren't invested in our characters, despite not giving us anything to get invested in. By the way, I never asked him to write the personality or story of my character, but I was not allowed to change it. The DM inserted many NPCs throughout the story, making each and everyone of them more powerful than the PCs. He even stated that the NPCs were more important than the party at one point, which really demoralized our group and made me wonder why our characters were doing this if the NPCs could just do it way better. The DM ended up becoming a stereotype of a bad DM. He would get mad when we challenged his logic (he hated non-good characters but allowed them in the group, wouldn't let them act their alignment), frequently railroaded (he got angry when your character wasn't just a mindless rag doll he could throw around, 90% of the time when I would try to act as my character or do something besides strictly do what he told us to, he prevented it or voided it), he made one PC the 'chosen one' that the plot focused on and admitted that the rest of us were significantly less valuable etc. One of the worst things he did was the way he behaved with characters he didn't like. Our group forcibly got split up often and he seemed to group it based on the PCs he liked and didn't like. I recall one incident where the favored group was doing their mission. Me and my friend who were playing characters the Dm apparently didn't like kept us out of the game, sitting in a separate room, for 6 hours straight. No, I'm not kidding. Then, when it was time for our mission, we were called in and the whole thing lasted 5 minutes, if that. I was really disheartened. Seperating people was pointless too, because the DM literally forced us to make our characters share our separate experiences in detail to one another upon reuniting. No one told anything but the exact truth and in metagaming fashion, one time my character withheld something he saw from the group and all the players OOC got pissed at me and forced me to share, the DM supported this. What is the point of splitting us up if it has no bearing on the story whatsoever? Ultimately, the campaign ended with a giant battle and we won the day. That DM was a terrible storyteller. He only had two characters he played: Slap-Happy and Serious. The DM's mind couldn't be changed about anything, rolling was essentially pointless because he never allowed anyone to persuade an NPC to think about or do something alternative to his vision. I can tell he spent alot of time planning out his campaign but it was a disaster. He basically never tried to get the group back-on-track when they got distracted (about every five minutes) and there were constant "jokes" or "stupid" moments in the story that were impossible to react to, because the DM wanted you to think they were funny, but also take them seriously, it made no sense! After months of this uninspired campaign, I decided it was time to retire my character and make someone I actually wanted to play (by the end, the DM changed my character alignment and his class, as he did with another member of the group). Not to mention, he created a playable NPC that was a shameless insert of himself that he deemed better than all the PC's. What a train wreck. The constant railroading and poor narrative constantly made me question my presence. I was hoping the next campaign by someone else would be better, yet it wasn't.
Example II: The next DM did things differently, I was the only one really playing a new character, one I spent a long, long time on. Apparently however, this DM made a big deal about how his campaign would be different from our first and that he'd be a better DM. While he probably was (he lacked the extreme ego/power-craving arrogance of the first) but his story was still boring and uninspired (literally, because he ripped it off from some old RPG. Anyway, this DM ended up breaking most of the promises he made to me OOC about how things would be fixed. Background hooks were still ignored and the first DM's influence lingered over the story because he did not allow the second DM to retcon some of the more ridiculous choices he made (such as making the 'chosen one' a demigod, or his own character a king and a demigod). In the end, people did not like the campaign much because the DM never gave our characters a reason to care about what was going on. I was really not a fan of "You should want to kill this bad guy BECAUSE he's a bad guy!" philosophy from the first campaign, and two times in a row was just awful. The first and second DM had a problem of telling us the way we should play our characters, and I was frequently scrutinized in the second campaign for being the only one to actually roleplay my character (who was a tough but fair type) while the rest literally just played their character based on what they would do. I also hated how they would often say, "Don't you think your character would risk his life for this place after spending a month in it? Shouldn't you protect it because you know it?" Moon logic at its finest. If I'm playing my character realistically, my character couldn't care less about a town he passed through where everyone was either a drunk or an *******.
Example III: The players. Every player but myself and two others has a problem where they are constantly looking at their phones and not engaged with what's going on, they don't put in any effort and its clear that they never think out what they do. EVERYTHING with their characters is made into some kind of joke and DMs either go along with it or aren't assertive with condemning it. The DMs were bad, but the players are really sinking the ship. Later on, some told me they never pay attention because the two campaigns were boring to them and didn't involve their characters on a personal level. I can't argue with that, but it's a poor excuse for bad behavior.
Overall, things have gotten a little better here and there but I am not optimistic about the future of our group whatsoever. I think the only way to get things on track is if I DM, but the second DM wants to do another campaign (that would make it three in a row, there was one campaign I totally missed out on). Part of me wants to enjoy this game with my friends and try to fix things by DMing, because I realize that my RP style is more serious and lore-based than their joke-focused, 4th wall breaking antics. Yet another part of me just wants to walk away and hang out with them without playing D&D, I think it might be more trouble than it's worth. I can't remember the last time I had fun playing D&D with them in a long time. I don't want to piss anyone off by leaving, but I honestly have my own life to live and I've given this group enough chances. At a certain point, I have to look out for what's a wise use of my time.
I'll leave a poll above where everyone can vote on what I should do. Please leave a comment with some advice on what you would have me do whether it's in taking a graceful exit or ways to improve the group. I appreciate the support.
Now I've not read everything but from what I've heard playing with friends first time is quite different from people you generally find on a forum or a specialised discord for dnd.
If you're bored of your game and have also write about needing help with your decision I think it's pretty justiefied for you to find another serious game you might enjoy. Doesn't mean you have to break contact or anything though.
Frankly, I'm struggling to figure out why you want to hang out with these people at all. And why they even want to play D&D at all.
Constantly on their phones. Bickering with each other. Demanding you do things, changing your character, bored with the games. These people sound like actual jerks, straight up.
If people want to play D&D, the f-ing phones have to be put away. Sorry, but RPGs don't mesh well with our constant social need to say "sup?" every five minutes. And playing an RPG is supposed to be collaborative.
Ditch these people. Don't look back. This experience is nothing like gaming should be.
Looking for new subclasses, spells, magic items, feats, and races? Opinions welcome :)
If you're not willing to change your own expectations, then definitely find a new group. It's a harsh reality that expectations don't align perfectly among all the players.
I had a similar experience when I ran a 5E campaign for some friends as the DM -- I tend enjoy more serious games with lots of drama and high stakes -- on this one occasion though, the players just wanted to make Monty Python jokes, attempt to seduce all the NPCs, and steal stuff from every shop or house they entered. No interest in drama, just silly antics and hijinks. Once I realized that's the kind of game they wanted to play, I wrapped up the campaign in five sessions and proposed we start meeting up to play something other than D&D.
That being said, the whole situation could have been avoided with some discussion beforehand. Setting expectations from the beginning helps a lot. Everyone should be clear about what kind of experience they want from the game from session zero.
I would definitely stop playing D&D with this group, especially if you are wanting to remain friends with them. It sounds like you all have fundamentally different values when it comes to your tabletop experiences. While that's okay, it does mean the probability finding a satisfying middle ground is likely very low. You taking over as the DM is unlikely to change much; you want to play in a serious adventure, but it sounds like that's what the rest of your group does not want.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
I would stop playing D&D with these guys. It sounds like playing with them is only leading you to frustration. There is a good chance this will carry over into your non-gaming friendship with them.
Gaming style clash happens. It doesn't make anyone a bad person, just means you like different things.