Hi I was wondering whether Dnd beyond being bought by WotC might finally enable it to publish 3rd party content?
What do you guys think?
It makes things slightly less complex, but from my understanding of the issue it won't be a substantial change. The major problem is if content has been published by someone other than WotC, then rights to the IP get complicated for trying to republish it elsewhere. It's slightly easier in that there's a slightly less complicated process for negotiation, but that's only a marginal issue at this point.
It's like going on holiday to Disney land in another country. Moving from your living room to the front door does make it easier in that you're closer to the destination, but there's still a whole load of organisation to do, travelling, navigating, and so forth such that moving thsie few extra feet closer to your destination isn't really a change in the grand scheme of things.
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If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
I think it lowers the odds of that happening. Why would WotC want to support 3rd party content?
Why would it lower the odds? There is no new downside to it. WotC was always in firm control of what was published here. The inly differences are that WotC will be closer to the action (and the simplification that brings to the decision process) and that they will see q bugger cut of the success it brings (if any). Having 3rd party content brings more users (and therefore more money) than not, so it's more of an incentive for them now.
However, from what I've seen, WotC never objected to the idea of 3rd party content (at least, not from high quality and reputable creators like CR) since we see some of their content already here. The issue is legal complications and disagreements on how to resolve them - and this acquisition will barely move the needle on that, to my understanding.
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If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
I sorta agree with 6th. I don't see D&D Beyond becoming a marketplace for 3rd part books under WotC ownership. My guess is WotC will want D&D Beyond to _fully_ support WotC's 5e before they even consider venturing into opening up D&D Beyond as a marketplace to 3rd parties.
My guess of what's going on inside is two priorities:
1.) Figure out the best ways to allocate resources so that DDB supports WotC's 5e to the fullest extent possible (and not just being a digital marketplace/toolset, but as a brand ambassador marketer of WotC's 5e which we're already seeing in stuff like the Spelljammer bonus preview bestiary).
2.) Get DDB prepared to robustly support WOTC PROJEKT D&D 2024 GOLD (or whatever it'll be called).
In other words, the action's going to be pretty insular within "official" WotC D&D, including a "next gen" rollout, so maybe 2025-2026 you might see them entertaining 3rd party presses (assuming 2024 OGL is similarly generous to 3rd parties).
Here's something to think about, would Kobold Press etc., want to agree to the same sales terms as DMsGuild (where most of the $ goes to WotC and the marketplace partner)? I don't think so, and I don't see WotC being generous with 3rd party access to its store.
I could see DDB and WotC together doing sort of in house Kickstarter stuff for prestige / collectors material sometimes in partnership with 3rd party producers (I don't believe any of the 3rd party presses come anywhere close to WotC sales numbers, except maybe Darrington or whatever CR calls their in-house press this week) something like what they do with Hasbro Pulse.
Wizards doesn't object to the idea of third-party supplement books, but they do object to selling them.
They sell Netherdeep and Eberron.
If you have evidence that they dislike selling them, as opposed to disliking the complications that come with selling books that are published welsewhere, I'd be interested to hear your reasoning.
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If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
Wizards doesn't object to the idea of third-party supplement books, but they do object to selling them.
They sell Netherdeep and Eberron.
I'm sorry, you're very mistaken on what third party means if you're using that as examples of third party exceptions. Netherdeep (and Wildemont) and the two Eberron books put out by WotC are not "third party publication" but WotC publications. WotC's D&D design studio supervised the production of both books so they would reflect WotC D&D style guides, etc. Kobold Press actually was heavily involved in the production of the two adventures now known as Tyranny of Dragons. But it was a WotC produced book with WotC riding oversight over the whole project.
WotC is not about to take on that role with every third party product out there, just so it can be made available in the D&D Beyond marketplace.
If you have evidence that they dislike selling them, as opposed to disliking the complications that come with selling books that are published welsewhere, I'd be interested to hear your reasoning.
I think if you looks at sales data, WotC D&D books outsell third party presses by far, with the exception of maybe Critical Role stuff (but does CR want to put itself under WotC? No, they like the creative freedom they got). WotC I don't think sees itself at all "in competition" with 3rd party presses. On the contrary, they probably think they're quite generous with the OGL to enable many TTRPG creators to break into recognition via the use of the D&D brand. That doesn't obligate or interest them in creating and regulating a pipeline for third parties into D&D Beyond. And on your competition claim, why would DDB share DDB with third parties with whom you're thinking their in competition? Putting out 1.) "official D&D" books that are 2.) able to be enhanced through DDB is a huge competitive advantage your'e saying they should abandon?
WotC buying DDB is a big deal, but it's also a real deal. A big thing about the reality of the deal is that the sale is not a raising of all the barriers to fans wishlists.
Wizards doesn't object to the idea of third-party supplement books, but they do object to selling them.
They sell Netherdeep and Eberron.
I'm sorry, you're very mistaken on what third party means if you're using that as examples of third party exceptions. Netherdeep (and Wildemont) and the two Eberron books put out by WotC are not "third party publication" but WotC publications. WotC's D&D design studio supervised the production of both books so they would reflect WotC D&D style guides, etc. Kobold Press actually was heavily involved in the production of the two adventures now known as Tyranny of Dragons. But it was a WotC produced book with WotC riding oversight over the whole project.
WotC is not about to take on that role with every third party product out there, just so it can be made available in the D&D Beyond marketplace.
If you have evidence that they dislike selling them, as opposed to disliking the complications that come with selling books that are published welsewhere, I'd be interested to hear your reasoning.
I think if you looks at sales data, WotC D&D books outsell third party presses by far, with the exception of maybe Critical Role stuff (but does CR want to put itself under WotC? No, they like the creative freedom they got). WotC I don't think sees itself at all "in competition" with 3rd party presses. On the contrary, they probably think they're quite generous with the OGL to enable many TTRPG creators to break into recognition via the use of the D&D brand. That doesn't obligate or interest them in creating and regulating a pipeline for third parties into D&D Beyond. And on your competition claim, why would DDB share DDB with third parties with whom you're thinking their in competition? Putting out 1.) "official D&D" books that are 2.) able to be enhanced through DDB is a huge competitive advantage your'e saying they should abandon?
WotC buying DDB is a big deal, but it's also a real deal. A big thing about the reality of the deal is that the sale is not a raising of all the barriers to fans wishlists.
You're being a pedant and picking on word usage. The claim was that WotC objects to selling "3rd party supplement books". Also, I have yet to see any one claiming that DDB should sell every single 3rd party material going. And please quote me where I said they were in competition as you claim that I have said.
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If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
You're being a pedant and picking on word usage. The claim was that WotC objects to selling "3rd party supplement books". Also, I have yet to see any one claiming that DDB should sell every single 3rd party material going. And please quote me where I said they were in competition as you claim that I have said.
What's pedantic about saying Netherdeep and Eberron are WotC books rather than 3rd party? WotC literally published them, not a 3rd party.
Besides, Eberron is as much a 3rd party publication as the Forgotten Realms are.
Wizards doesn't object to the idea of third-party supplement books, but they do object to selling them.
They sell Netherdeep and Eberron.
I'm sorry, you're very mistaken on what third party means if you're using that as examples of third party exceptions. Netherdeep (and Wildemont) and the two Eberron books put out by WotC are not "third party publication" but WotC publications. WotC's D&D design studio supervised the production of both books so they would reflect WotC D&D style guides, etc. Kobold Press actually was heavily involved in the production of the two adventures now known as Tyranny of Dragons. But it was a WotC produced book with WotC riding oversight over the whole project.
WotC is not about to take on that role with every third party product out there, just so it can be made available in the D&D Beyond marketplace.
If you have evidence that they dislike selling them, as opposed to disliking the complications that come with selling books that are published welsewhere, I'd be interested to hear your reasoning.
I think if you looks at sales data, WotC D&D books outsell third party presses by far, with the exception of maybe Critical Role stuff (but does CR want to put itself under WotC? No, they like the creative freedom they got). WotC I don't think sees itself at all "in competition" with 3rd party presses. On the contrary, they probably think they're quite generous with the OGL to enable many TTRPG creators to break into recognition via the use of the D&D brand. That doesn't obligate or interest them in creating and regulating a pipeline for third parties into D&D Beyond. And on your competition claim, why would DDB share DDB with third parties with whom you're thinking their in competition? Putting out 1.) "official D&D" books that are 2.) able to be enhanced through DDB is a huge competitive advantage your'e saying they should abandon?
WotC buying DDB is a big deal, but it's also a real deal. A big thing about the reality of the deal is that the sale is not a raising of all the barriers to fans wishlists.
You're being a pedant and picking on word usage. The claim was that WotC objects to selling "3rd party supplement books". Also, I have yet to see any one claiming that DDB should sell every single 3rd party material going. And please quote me where I said they were in competition as you claim that I have said.
I am not being pedantic by clearing up your misunderstanding that either of the two critical role books or the Eberron book are 3rd party books. Those four books would not exist if they weren't projects produced by WotC. This thread has been about (for years) opening up the D&D Marketplace to 3rd party books like those produced by Kobold Press (and Darrington Press or whatever CR calls it). Saying WOTC published Eberron (a setting which Baker turned into a professionally produced setting inside WOTC in the first place) and two books affiliated with Critical Role in no way supports the possibility of D&D Beyond suddenly making Tal'Dorel or whatever it's called or The Creature Kodexes in their marketplace.
DDB has never been available to 3rd party publishers, why do you think that would change when their main partner in doing business becomes their owner?
Again, don't think you really understand what 3rd party means in terms of D&D. If WotC's D&D studio publishes it, it's an official 5e book. Everything else published outside of WotC is third party. Wildemont, Netherdeep, both Eberron books published by WotC are official 5e books. Tal'Dorel, Baker's other book on DMsGuild, everything published by Kobold Press, those are third party. It's not pedantic when the distinction seems to be failing you since you're using those books to claim WotC's is somehow disposed to producing third party books in its marketplace.
WotC could make money with partnership and licencing deals with 3PPs with merchandising products, toys, for example, but also as translators, at least in online digital version.
Some IPs by 3PPs are too good, and these could be acquired by some videogame studio or movie producer. Hasbro should realise about the potential of those franchises and keep an eye for them.
To everyone saying there is no third party content dungeons of drakenheim will be on here soon which was made by the dungeon dudes and ghostfire gaming not WoTC
This thread was started three years ago and the last post was a year and a half ago, long before any announcements were made about third-party content on DDB.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
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I think it lowers the odds of that happening. Why would WotC want to support 3rd party content?
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
It makes things slightly less complex, but from my understanding of the issue it won't be a substantial change. The major problem is if content has been published by someone other than WotC, then rights to the IP get complicated for trying to republish it elsewhere. It's slightly easier in that there's a slightly less complicated process for negotiation, but that's only a marginal issue at this point.
It's like going on holiday to Disney land in another country. Moving from your living room to the front door does make it easier in that you're closer to the destination, but there's still a whole load of organisation to do, travelling, navigating, and so forth such that moving thsie few extra feet closer to your destination isn't really a change in the grand scheme of things.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
Why would it lower the odds? There is no new downside to it. WotC was always in firm control of what was published here. The inly differences are that WotC will be closer to the action (and the simplification that brings to the decision process) and that they will see q bugger cut of the success it brings (if any). Having 3rd party content brings more users (and therefore more money) than not, so it's more of an incentive for them now.
However, from what I've seen, WotC never objected to the idea of 3rd party content (at least, not from high quality and reputable creators like CR) since we see some of their content already here. The issue is legal complications and disagreements on how to resolve them - and this acquisition will barely move the needle on that, to my understanding.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
Wizards doesn't object to the idea of third-party supplement books, but they do object to selling them.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
I sorta agree with 6th. I don't see D&D Beyond becoming a marketplace for 3rd part books under WotC ownership. My guess is WotC will want D&D Beyond to _fully_ support WotC's 5e before they even consider venturing into opening up D&D Beyond as a marketplace to 3rd parties.
My guess of what's going on inside is two priorities:
1.) Figure out the best ways to allocate resources so that DDB supports WotC's 5e to the fullest extent possible (and not just being a digital marketplace/toolset, but as a brand ambassador marketer of WotC's 5e which we're already seeing in stuff like the Spelljammer bonus preview bestiary).
2.) Get DDB prepared to robustly support WOTC PROJEKT D&D 2024 GOLD (or whatever it'll be called).
In other words, the action's going to be pretty insular within "official" WotC D&D, including a "next gen" rollout, so maybe 2025-2026 you might see them entertaining 3rd party presses (assuming 2024 OGL is similarly generous to 3rd parties).
Here's something to think about, would Kobold Press etc., want to agree to the same sales terms as DMsGuild (where most of the $ goes to WotC and the marketplace partner)? I don't think so, and I don't see WotC being generous with 3rd party access to its store.
I could see DDB and WotC together doing sort of in house Kickstarter stuff for prestige / collectors material sometimes in partnership with 3rd party producers (I don't believe any of the 3rd party presses come anywhere close to WotC sales numbers, except maybe Darrington or whatever CR calls their in-house press this week) something like what they do with Hasbro Pulse.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
They sell Netherdeep and Eberron.
If you have evidence that they dislike selling them, as opposed to disliking the complications that come with selling books that are published welsewhere, I'd be interested to hear your reasoning.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
I'm sorry, you're very mistaken on what third party means if you're using that as examples of third party exceptions. Netherdeep (and Wildemont) and the two Eberron books put out by WotC are not "third party publication" but WotC publications. WotC's D&D design studio supervised the production of both books so they would reflect WotC D&D style guides, etc. Kobold Press actually was heavily involved in the production of the two adventures now known as Tyranny of Dragons. But it was a WotC produced book with WotC riding oversight over the whole project.
WotC is not about to take on that role with every third party product out there, just so it can be made available in the D&D Beyond marketplace.
I think if you looks at sales data, WotC D&D books outsell third party presses by far, with the exception of maybe Critical Role stuff (but does CR want to put itself under WotC? No, they like the creative freedom they got). WotC I don't think sees itself at all "in competition" with 3rd party presses. On the contrary, they probably think they're quite generous with the OGL to enable many TTRPG creators to break into recognition via the use of the D&D brand. That doesn't obligate or interest them in creating and regulating a pipeline for third parties into D&D Beyond. And on your competition claim, why would DDB share DDB with third parties with whom you're thinking their in competition? Putting out 1.) "official D&D" books that are 2.) able to be enhanced through DDB is a huge competitive advantage your'e saying they should abandon?
WotC buying DDB is a big deal, but it's also a real deal. A big thing about the reality of the deal is that the sale is not a raising of all the barriers to fans wishlists.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
You're being a pedant and picking on word usage. The claim was that WotC objects to selling "3rd party supplement books". Also, I have yet to see any one claiming that DDB should sell every single 3rd party material going. And please quote me where I said they were in competition as you claim that I have said.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
What's pedantic about saying Netherdeep and Eberron are WotC books rather than 3rd party? WotC literally published them, not a 3rd party.
Besides, Eberron is as much a 3rd party publication as the Forgotten Realms are.
I am not being pedantic by clearing up your misunderstanding that either of the two critical role books or the Eberron book are 3rd party books. Those four books would not exist if they weren't projects produced by WotC. This thread has been about (for years) opening up the D&D Marketplace to 3rd party books like those produced by Kobold Press (and Darrington Press or whatever CR calls it). Saying WOTC published Eberron (a setting which Baker turned into a professionally produced setting inside WOTC in the first place) and two books affiliated with Critical Role in no way supports the possibility of D&D Beyond suddenly making Tal'Dorel or whatever it's called or The Creature Kodexes in their marketplace.
DDB has never been available to 3rd party publishers, why do you think that would change when their main partner in doing business becomes their owner?
Again, don't think you really understand what 3rd party means in terms of D&D. If WotC's D&D studio publishes it, it's an official 5e book. Everything else published outside of WotC is third party. Wildemont, Netherdeep, both Eberron books published by WotC are official 5e books. Tal'Dorel, Baker's other book on DMsGuild, everything published by Kobold Press, those are third party. It's not pedantic when the distinction seems to be failing you since you're using those books to claim WotC's is somehow disposed to producing third party books in its marketplace.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
WotC could make money with partnership and licencing deals with 3PPs with merchandising products, toys, for example, but also as translators, at least in online digital version.
Some IPs by 3PPs are too good, and these could be acquired by some videogame studio or movie producer. Hasbro should realise about the potential of those franchises and keep an eye for them.
To everyone saying there is no third party content dungeons of drakenheim will be on here soon which was made by the dungeon dudes and ghostfire gaming not WoTC
This thread was started three years ago and the last post was a year and a half ago, long before any announcements were made about third-party content on DDB.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.