Nope, the echo isn't a creature but an ability affect that has a description that makes it look like a creature. As such it doesn't qualify for flanking
Level 2 you can use your reaction after you or a creature within 30 feet makes an attack, save, or check (you get to know the result first), you can force a reroll, they must use the new roll. 2 uses per long rest. Also at level 2, you add INT to your initiative.
Level 6, as an action force a large or smaller creature within 60 feet to make a CON save or get time stopped (incapacitated, 0 speed) until the end of your next turn or they take damage. INT number of uses per long rest.
Level 10, once per rest you can turn a level 4 or lower spell you are casting into an object that lasts an hour. Any creature holding it can use their action to release the spell casting it using your spellcasting ability.
Level 14, portent on crack. When a creature within 60 feet makes an attack, save, or check, you can use your reaction to decide if they succeed or fail, full stop. You gain 1 exhaustion each time you use this that only goes away 1 level per long rest.
Chronurgist seems cool. Their level 2 abilities seem pretty solid, stronger than many other wizard subclasses' level 2 abilities. Basically lucky, but slightly different, and the initiative bonus is nice and makes sense.
Level 6 ability seems cool.
Level 10 seems a bit like Spell Storing Item for Artificers, but a bit better. I can't wait to see what cool combinations people come up with this.
Level 14 seems extremely powerful, but balanced due to intelligence, using the same logic as the Evoker's capstone.
This subclass seems cool, has a lot of time-shaping, without actually having to manipulate time that much.
Chronergist's level 14 ability is insanely powerful, say:
1. I'm a level 14 Chronergist wizard with STR 8 and no proficiency in Greatsword. My attack bonus with a Greatsword is now +2. So I need to roll a 20 to hit anything with AC higher than 22. (I can also drop my attack bonus further. The key is to drop it as low as possible so that "the minimum number needed to succeed" is 20.)
2. Get a VORPAL SWORD.
3. Profit.
Plus I'm most certainly the first to act in a combat (initiative got + Intelligence modifier + 1d8 from gift of alacrity).
Plus I can cast SIMULACRUM to use Convergent Future for me.
This doesn't have to do with the new subclasses but on the Lesser idols where are lists domains and patrons the beans can be the hag, mother says the pact of the fiend. I may be wrong I believe The Hags are dark fey creatures. I'm probably wrong because the lore is different in wildemount.
This doesn't have to do with the new subclasses but on the Lesser idols where are lists domains and patrons the beans can be the hag, mother says the pact of the fiend. I may be wrong I believe The Hags are dark fey creatures. I'm probably wrong because the lore is different in wildemount.
True but...
Appearance. The Hag Mother can take any female humanoid form she chooses and often travels in disguise, but her true form is that of a gnarled, purple-skinned crone with stringy black hair, yellow eyes, and red ram’s horns that curl back from her forehead.
That sounds exactly like a night hag which are fiends.
Chronurgist. I've been wanting a time-themed subclass for a while, and the features are pretty cool, especially the spell mote and the capstone.
I also actually like that there are spells exclusive to these wizard subclasses, as spells are a wizard's bread and butter, and having spells unique to specific subclasses helps to set them apart IMO. Doesn't stop bards from yoinking them though.
Echo Knight. Thematically and Mechanically interesting abilities that feel unique when compared to the other Fighter subclasses.
I wasn't saying that the other Fighter sub classes weren't unique, only that they did a good job of creating something completely new.
I agree. Nothing like Echo Knight exists in 5e yet. The closest thing is Simulacrum, but that looks different, functions different, and actually is a creature.
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I personally really like all of the subclasses. Here's how I'd rate them, if I had too:
Chronurgist (this is how you spell it correctly)
Echo Knight
Graviturgist (also a correct spelling, sorry, I'm a Grammar Nazi)
I only put Graviturgist at the bottom of the list because of how much I like alternate reality theories and time travel. Gravity is cool, but not as cool as some of the other things.
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I also actually like that there are spells exclusive to these wizard subclasses, as spells are a wizard's bread and butter, and having spells unique to specific subclasses helps to set them apart IMO.
I personally HATE the fact that they are only available to these two subclasses of wizards and bards.
I wish sooooooo much that there was a Dunamancy based sorcerer or two (whatever that may be).
I wish these were available to Warlocks, a lot of them make a ton of sense for GOOlocks to have.
Bards should get a few of these as well.
A Dunamancy Cleric would also be awesome, with access to some of these spells.
As much as I think the idea of a Dunamancy druid, I don't think that's ever coming.
Any thoughts? Agree or disagree?
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I also actually like that there are spells exclusive to these wizard subclasses, as spells are a wizard's bread and butter, and having spells unique to specific subclasses helps to set them apart IMO.
I personally HATE the fact that they are only available to these two subclasses of wizards and bards.
I wish sooooooo much that there was a Dunamancy based sorcerer or two (whatever that may be).
I wish these were available to Warlocks, a lot of them make a ton of sense for GOOlocks to have.
Bards should get a few of these as well.
A Dunamancy Cleric would also be awesome, with access to some of these spells.
As much as I think the idea of a Dunamancy druid, I don't think that's ever coming.
I seem to think opposite most of you. The Graviturgist and Echo Knight are very well done. The Chronurgist just isn't that interesting compared to what it could have been. When I think of time manipulation, I think of more than advantage/disadvantage and initiative. Paradoxes of retrocausality, causal loops, antitelephony (just a fancy word for a causal loop from information transfers), etc. Of course this can be added as flavor whenever a chronurgist uses their abilities, but it's mechanically pretty meh.
I also actually like that there are spells exclusive to these wizard subclasses, as spells are a wizard's bread and butter, and having spells unique to specific subclasses helps to set them apart IMO.
I personally HATE the fact that they are only available to these two subclasses of wizards and bards.
I wish sooooooo much that there was a Dunamancy based sorcerer or two (whatever that may be).
I wish these were available to Warlocks, a lot of them make a ton of sense for GOOlocks to have.
Bards should get a few of these as well.
A Dunamancy Cleric would also be awesome, with access to some of these spells.
As much as I think the idea of a Dunamancy druid, I don't think that's ever coming.
Any thoughts? Agree or disagree?
I would have liked to see a select few on to other spell lists with Wizard being the only class to get access to them all.
I also actually like that there are spells exclusive to these wizard subclasses, as spells are a wizard's bread and butter, and having spells unique to specific subclasses helps to set them apart IMO.
I personally HATE the fact that they are only available to these two subclasses of wizards and bards.
I wish sooooooo much that there was a Dunamancy based sorcerer or two (whatever that may be).
I wish these were available to Warlocks, a lot of them make a ton of sense for GOOlocks to have.
Bards should get a few of these as well.
A Dunamancy Cleric would also be awesome, with access to some of these spells.
As much as I think the idea of a Dunamancy druid, I don't think that's ever coming.
I seem to think opposite most of you. The Graviturgist and Echo Knight are very well done. The Chronurgist just isn't that interesting compared to what it could have been. When I think of time manipulation, I think of more than advantage/disadvantage and initiative. Paradoxes of retrocausality, causal loops, antitelephony (just a fancy word for a causal loop from information transfers), etc. Of course this can be added as flavor whenever a chronurgist uses their abilities, but it's mechanically pretty meh.
You also have to remember that these things have to be translated into the mechanics, and paradoxes are incredibly abstract.
I don't think freezing someone in time, changing someone's past rolls, freezing a spell in time to unleash on someone later a-la delayed-blast fireball, and flat-out telling the DM that a natural 1 is a success, are "pretty meh".
I'm not saying they're "meh" power-wise. I'm saying they're meh from the point of view of somebody looking for interesting new mechanics. Time Stop already exists. The Diviner already exists. The Echo Knight and Graviturgist gave us really creative new mechanics to play with. The Chronurgist just repackaged old ones, less the time bead thing which is cool, but feels like something time-magic-adjacent.
Paradoxes are abstract, but they can be incredibly tractable mechanically, especially out of combat. Suppose you don't know a piece of information, but your future self pops up to drop it on you. That creates an anti-telephony paradox (when did you learn that information?). Suppose you're choosing whether to take one course of action or another. Why not choose both, observe the immediate results, then pull yourself into the timeline you prefer? What if you ended the last encounter deafened by a thunderous effect. How about you spend a minute popping into the past to hug the head of your past self effectively ensuring that the deafness never happened?
The trouble with 2e time magic was that it generally required a LOT of record-keeping, ie. what were the hit points of the entire party 1 minute ago, etc. But in 5e you just need a bit of imagination.
Any ideas for cool multiclassing with these subclasses?
I put together a Conquest Pally/Echo Knight. Because the attacks from the EK are your attacks you can smite on them. Giving you pretty substantial range and flexibility and Shadow Martyr gives you even more protective options. And the Shadow Avatar gives you the scouting ability of a familiar, if a bit less sneaky. I went with 11 Fighter/9 Pally but I'm unsure if going 12/8 is better. 3rd level smites(because 3rd level Pally spells aren't great) vs an extra ASI/Feat. Zariel Tiefling for the stat boosts and some spare Smite spells. I think it's dope but who knows if I'll ever get to play it.
From what I've seen of the Cronologist and its effects, it kinda feels like everything the School of Divination should have been (minus the spell storing). It's not really a new thing, it's a better version of something that already exists.
Just an initial reaction, not based on any playing or anything.
Any ideas for cool multiclassing with these subclasses?
I put together a Conquest Pally/Echo Knight. Because the attacks from the EK are your attacks you can smite on them. Giving you pretty substantial range and flexibility and Shadow Martyr gives you even more protective options. And the Shadow Avatar gives you the scouting ability of a familiar, if a bit less sneaky. I went with 11 Fighter/9 Pally but I'm unsure if going 12/8 is better. 3rd level smites(because 3rd level Pally spells aren't great) vs an extra ASI/Feat. Zariel Tiefling for the stat boosts and some spare Smite spells. I think it's dope but who knows if I'll ever get to play it.
Yeah, multiclassing with paladin seems good.
Echo Knight and Rogue seems like it could be good. You and your echo knight goes up to an enemy, and have your echo get sneak attack on every attack, from you being within 5 feet of the enemy.
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Can you flank with echo?
Nope, the echo isn't a creature but an ability affect that has a description that makes it look like a creature. As such it doesn't qualify for flanking
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Chronergist's level 14 ability is insanely powerful, say:
1. I'm a level 14 Chronergist wizard with STR 8 and no proficiency in Greatsword. My attack bonus with a Greatsword is now +2. So I need to roll a 20 to hit anything with AC higher than 22. (I can also drop my attack bonus further. The key is to drop it as low as possible so that "the minimum number needed to succeed" is 20.)
2. Get a VORPAL SWORD.
3. Profit.
Plus I'm most certainly the first to act in a combat (initiative got + Intelligence modifier + 1d8 from gift of alacrity).
Plus I can cast SIMULACRUM to use Convergent Future for me.
This doesn't have to do with the new subclasses but on the Lesser idols where are lists domains and patrons the beans can be the hag, mother says the pact of the fiend. I may be wrong I believe The Hags are dark fey creatures. I'm probably wrong because the lore is different in wildemount.
Hags are fey creatures, not fiends, except Night Hags.
Chronurgists seem incredibly cool and powerful. It's like a mix of Diviners, the Lucky Feat, and Artificers, with the spell-storing item.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
True but...
That sounds exactly like a night hag which are fiends.
Which is your favorite subclass?
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
Echo Knight. Thematically and Mechanically interesting abilities that feel unique when compared to the other Fighter subclasses.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
I wasn't saying that the other Fighter sub classes weren't unique, only that they did a good job of creating something completely new.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
I agree. Nothing like Echo Knight exists in 5e yet. The closest thing is Simulacrum, but that looks different, functions different, and actually is a creature.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
I personally really like all of the subclasses. Here's how I'd rate them, if I had too:
I only put Graviturgist at the bottom of the list because of how much I like alternate reality theories and time travel. Gravity is cool, but not as cool as some of the other things.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
I personally HATE the fact that they are only available to these two subclasses of wizards and bards.
I wish sooooooo much that there was a Dunamancy based sorcerer or two (whatever that may be).
I wish these were available to Warlocks, a lot of them make a ton of sense for GOOlocks to have.
Bards should get a few of these as well.
A Dunamancy Cleric would also be awesome, with access to some of these spells.
As much as I think the idea of a Dunamancy druid, I don't think that's ever coming.
Any thoughts? Agree or disagree?
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
Beat you to it. thread.
I seem to think opposite most of you. The Graviturgist and Echo Knight are very well done. The Chronurgist just isn't that interesting compared to what it could have been. When I think of time manipulation, I think of more than advantage/disadvantage and initiative. Paradoxes of retrocausality, causal loops, antitelephony (just a fancy word for a causal loop from information transfers), etc. Of course this can be added as flavor whenever a chronurgist uses their abilities, but it's mechanically pretty meh.
I would have liked to see a select few on to other spell lists with Wizard being the only class to get access to them all.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
Thanks for the clarification.
Any ideas for cool multiclassing with these subclasses?
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
I'm not saying they're "meh" power-wise. I'm saying they're meh from the point of view of somebody looking for interesting new mechanics. Time Stop already exists. The Diviner already exists. The Echo Knight and Graviturgist gave us really creative new mechanics to play with. The Chronurgist just repackaged old ones, less the time bead thing which is cool, but feels like something time-magic-adjacent.
Paradoxes are abstract, but they can be incredibly tractable mechanically, especially out of combat. Suppose you don't know a piece of information, but your future self pops up to drop it on you. That creates an anti-telephony paradox (when did you learn that information?). Suppose you're choosing whether to take one course of action or another. Why not choose both, observe the immediate results, then pull yourself into the timeline you prefer? What if you ended the last encounter deafened by a thunderous effect. How about you spend a minute popping into the past to hug the head of your past self effectively ensuring that the deafness never happened?
The trouble with 2e time magic was that it generally required a LOT of record-keeping, ie. what were the hit points of the entire party 1 minute ago, etc. But in 5e you just need a bit of imagination.
I put together a Conquest Pally/Echo Knight. Because the attacks from the EK are your attacks you can smite on them. Giving you pretty substantial range and flexibility and Shadow Martyr gives you even more protective options. And the Shadow Avatar gives you the scouting ability of a familiar, if a bit less sneaky. I went with 11 Fighter/9 Pally but I'm unsure if going 12/8 is better. 3rd level smites(because 3rd level Pally spells aren't great) vs an extra ASI/Feat. Zariel Tiefling for the stat boosts and some spare Smite spells. I think it's dope but who knows if I'll ever get to play it.
From what I've seen of the Cronologist and its effects, it kinda feels like everything the School of Divination should have been (minus the spell storing). It's not really a new thing, it's a better version of something that already exists.
Just an initial reaction, not based on any playing or anything.
Yeah, multiclassing with paladin seems good.
Echo Knight and Rogue seems like it could be good. You and your echo knight goes up to an enemy, and have your echo get sneak attack on every attack, from you being within 5 feet of the enemy.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms