I don't get why everyone is so against paid DMing. Do you not realize how much time and money it costs to be a good DM? Assuming you spend the hours needed to prepare a homebrew world so you don't have to buy a module, it's still going to cost at the very least 100$ for minis + another 20ish for every map. If you buy pawns it's cheaper, but not by much and unless you're running Pathfinder some of them will be useless (Not many but a few). So, just to start out DMing is going to cost about 120$ without including markers. Then assuming you bought cheap minis and the minis you'll need for the next few sessions, You've still gotta pay for new minis once you start using new monsters. DMing is a very expensive hobby. And I personally am willing to spend money on the hobby if I have to, but the thing is I don't have a bunch of money to spend so I can't make the experience as good as I'd want for my players.
The there's the issue of players not respecting the time we put in. My first ever home game fell apart because only one or two people would get back to me when I pinged everyone on the group chat. And even then the players who got back to me would cancel last minute or just not show up or be late. I've also had players intentionally sabotage one-shots because they could. Luckily, now I have a good group, but that might be because half of them are DM's/have DMed. Players are more committed if they spend money on the game, that's a fact. I found a good group, but not everyone has 30+ people playing DND in their small town (We have very few willing DMs though, so DMs often end up with 6+ players). Then, even in my good group I'm constantly being forced to mediate fights that break out between players. DMing can be the worst experience ever with the wrong group, if you set strict rules and have them pay then you're almost guaranteed to not get a uncommitted, disrespectful group.
Then for the third point we have online DMing and Roll20. Roll20 is a great website, but if you want to provide a great experience the character tokens alone will probably cost you 20$, unless you're extremely lucky and find tokens that work for every character in one place in which case the price will usually be less than 10$. Then you either have to make your own maps, which while cheaper takes more skill and time, or purchase maps on Roll20. Purchasing maps on Roll20 will probably run you about 50$ for some good quality, reusable maps, but to keep things intresting will definitely run you more than 100$ so you don't wind up reusing the same maps all the time. If you want the maps you make to look good you can spend about 7$ a month assuming you use Dungeonfog (which I recommend, cause once you learn how to use it you can make really good looking maps on there) which adds up to 85$ a year. If you decide to use just the roll 20 map creator then your maps won't look good but they'll work and it's free.
So, in conclusion DMing is too expensive for a casual hobby and while I would never ask 10$ an hour or something like that, something like 5$-10$ a session isn't bad and lets you recuperate some of the costs you take with being a DM, or you could ask players to pitch in, but if you have players like that your group is a unicorn.
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call me Anna or Kerns, (she/her), usually a DM, lgbtq+ friendly
I don't get why everyone is so against paid DMing. Do you not realize how much time and money it costs to be a good DM? Assuming you spend the hours needed to prepare a homebrew world so you don't have to buy a module, it's still going to cost at the very least 100$ for minis + another 20ish for every map. If you buy pawns it's cheaper, but not by much and unless you're running Pathfinder some of them will be useless (Not many but a few). So, just to start out DMing is going to cost about 120$ without including markers. Then assuming you bought cheap minis and the minis you'll need for the next few sessions, You've still gotta pay for new minis once you start using new monsters. DMing is a very expensive hobby. And I personally am willing to spend money on the hobby if I have to, but the thing is I don't have a bunch of money to spend so I can't make the experience as good as I'd want for my players.
The there's the issue of players not respecting the time we put in. My first ever home game fell apart because only one or two people would get back to me when I pinged everyone on the group chat. And even then the players who got back to me would cancel last minute or just not show up or be late. I've also had players intentionally sabotage one-shots because they could. Luckily, now I have a good group, but that might be because half of them are DM's/have DMed. Players are more committed if they spend money on the game, that's a fact. I found a good group, but not everyone has 30+ people playing DND in their small town (We have very few willing DMs though, so DMs often end up with 6+ players). Then, even in my good group I'm constantly being forced to mediate fights that break out between players. DMing can be the worst experience ever with the wrong group, if you set strict rules and have them pay then you're almost guaranteed to not get a uncommitted, disrespectful group.
Then for the third point we have online DMing and Roll20. Roll20 is a great website, but if you want to provide a great experience the character tokens alone will probably cost you 20$, unless you're extremely lucky and find tokens that work for every character in one place in which case the price will usually be less than 10$. Then you either have to make your own maps, which while cheaper takes more skill and time, or purchase maps on Roll20. Purchasing maps on Roll20 will probably run you about 50$ for some good quality, reusable maps, but to keep things intresting will definitely run you more than 100$ so you don't wind up reusing the same maps all the time. If you want the maps you make to look good you can spend about 7$ a month assuming you use Dungeonfog (which I recommend, cause once you learn how to use it you can make really good looking maps on there) which adds up to 85$ a year. If you decide to use just the roll 20 map creator then your maps won't look good but they'll work and it's free.
So, in conclusion, DMing is too expensive for a casual hobby and while I would never ask 10$ an hour or something like that, something like 5$-10$ a session isn't bad and lets you recuperate some of the costs you take with being a DM, or you could ask players to pitch in, but if you have players like that your group is a unicorn.
You don't need any of those things you mentioned to be a DM. I DM games where the player brings a mini they want to represent their character and we use hand-drawn maps. I have roll-up whiteboard stuff that cost me £50 that I have had since the beginning and the dry coloured markers cost me a couple of pounds every few months.
I hand draw battle maps as we go on the roll-up whiteboard, the players use their minis to represent themselves and I draw coloured markers for where each monster/creature is.
I also hand draw world maps on paper. My maps are not professional, but they don't need to be and because I hand draw the battle maps as we go I don't even need to cover them up with anything. I do have a small sketch of each battle map I want to use that session, which I keep out of sight of the players. That sketch is just my notes, so I have a reference for what I'm drawing as we go along.
Also, because my markers for monsters/creatures as just coloured dry marker marks, I don't need tons of minis either. I can reuse the colours for different types of monsters in different battles and I have enough colours to cover all the monsters/creatures that I need in each combat encounter.
My monetary costs for running a game is practically zero. The only real cost to me is in the time I put into it, but I have the time and I love world-building so don't even consider that as work. It's just fun. The players get to have fun playing in the world. I get to have fun making it.
Lastly, although I have a master tier subscription on DDB and a subscription to world anvil, we mostly still use paper in my games because I don't want my group to be wasting time flipping through screens. My players use DDB to make. their character and print their sheets before each session and I use world anvil for creating the world that they play in. You don't even need subscriptions to anything though and I'd be happy for you to turn up with a free print out of a premade character from the wizard's website if you are new to the game. Or even if your not, I'd be happy for you to use free fillable character sheets provides by wizards.
As for world-building and being a DM. Literally, all you need is your imagination and some paper to write your notes and story plots on.
What you need to play is the basic rules, a character sheet. Totally free from the wizard's website. You also need some dice, which cost £5 or a free dice dolling app and a pencil and some paper.
What you need to DM is the basic rules, DM resources and the SRD. Totally free from the wizard's website. You also need some pens, some dice or a free dice roller app, and some ideas for the kind of game you want to run, some paper and the willingness to just dive right in.
Sure you can buy stuff. Even expensive fancy stuff but you don't need to. You can literally play D&D without is costing you a penny and you can DM for just a couple of pounds, even free if you reuse pens and stuff you have around the house.
So I don't see how you can say it costs you hundreds of dollars. At least not unless you want to spend money.
What some of you don't seem to be getting is that utilizing the services of a paid DM is similar to going out with your friends to see a 3-4 hour movie. Yes, you and your friends could, for "free," stay at home and talk fan-fic to each-other for four hours, but if you are interested in investing in an "experience" then that is what a paid DM is offering. And yes, you may feel that your free-er experience is just as good and so don't feel that it is worth paying for the service, and that's fine, but the service exists for a target audience who is not you. It's there for people who have the money to spend and want a certain level of entertainment. It's like a birthday party clown or magician. Nothing is stopping you from not booking those performers and instead trying to entertain your own children, but there is a market for these people and they have clients for a reason.
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"The mongoose blew out its candle and was asleep in bed before the room went dark." —Llanowar fable
What some of you don't seem to be getting is that utilizing the services of a paid DM is similar to going out with your friends to see a 3-4 hour movie. Yes, you and your friends could, for "free," stay at home and talk fan-fic to each-other for four hours, but if you are interested in investing in an "experience" then that is what a paid DM is offering. And yes, you may feel that your free-er experience is just as good and so don't feel that it is worth paying for the service, and that's fine, but the service exists for a target audience who is not you. It's there for people who have the money to spend and want a certain level of entertainment. It's like a birthday party clown or magician. Nothing is stopping you from not booking those performers and instead of trying to entertain your own children, but there is a market for these people and they have clients for a reason.
This is the type of DM-as-service (paid DM) that I do not have a problem with. Your paying for professional entertainment. That's totally fine if the DM is professional, has a few years under their belt and or is a celebrity or sought after DM. Like I said. If Matt Mercer was to open up a game in his world to the public and charge a fee per head to come and play in his game with him as the DM, I'd pay for sure. If Barry who DMs in the local pub on a Friday night, started charging for people to join his games, I'd think that was going too far.
I also think there tends to be a theme with all DM-as-a-service ideas, that those people are going to become famous and or rich by charging to DM and if I may be blunt, I doubt those people can run a good game anyway as they're only focussed on the fame and money.
The other time when I think it's acceptable to charge is if you need to cover the cost of a room in your local community centre or something. We still have to be realistic though. I have DMed for community groups before who have charged £2 per head, per session, so that they could put donations into the community centre whose room they were using. Nobody minded paying that because they knew what it was for and where it was going. Charging with the intent of having a wage at the end of the month though is just wrong to me unless you're some highly professional DM who can provide the group with high-quality professional entertainment and you make it clear that your games are a paid-for service with a planned entertainment schedule.
In short, though, I shudder whenever j see questions like this (even though I have asked then myself in the past) because I worry about this becoming a trend and people being locked out of playing or having fun because that can't afford to pay or don't want to pay.
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A caffeinated nerd who has played TTRPGs or a number of years and is very much a fantasy adventure geek.
Yes. you can play for free, but very few people do. Most people at least buy the books, which are usually the DM's responsibility to have. The core books are 30$ each and there's also Xanathar's guide, Volo's guide, and Mordenkainen's tome of foes which are once again 30$ each. That's 180$ for just the main 6 books. And, you're right you can play without minis, but most people play with minis, tokens, pawns, etc. Those aren't cheap considering how many of them you need to run an effective game. I'm not saying the price tag is necessary, but most people decide to pay to make a better experience for their players. And I think it's not fair that it's forced on the DM to schedule, make the game, pay for the materials, and pay for most of the books. Then you also have the issue of players sometimes being rude, devaluing your time, or forcing you to be a mediator of their childish conflict so you can continue playing the game you spent HOURS on. Paid Dming is no worse than going pro with videogames. Some people have the skill and rise to the top and others don't. The truth is it's no more corporatizing then getting paid for art, writing, acting, or whatever other hobby you can make money off of. You can spend 0 and run an effective game, but if you spend money you will run a better game with the maps, minis/tokens/pawns, and visual aids you purchase.
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call me Anna or Kerns, (she/her), usually a DM, lgbtq+ friendly
It's a non-issue. Taking issue with how any person or group plays D&D is like being worried (bothered, afraid of, whatever) how others play a single player video game. It has 0 effect on you. Now, if you're in an MMO, it makes sense how one might complain or worry about the impact of other players in that game -- because somewhere, they may cross paths.
In D&D's case, a paid DM will NEVER affect you (or I) and the group we play with. So let them do as they do. Always.
Yes. you can play for free, but very few people do. Most people at least buy the books, which are usually the DM's responsibility to have. The core books are 30$ each and there's also Xanathar's guide, Volo's guide, and Mordenkainen's tome of foes which are once again 30$ each. That's 180$ for just the main 6 books. And, you're right you can play without minis, but most people play with minis, tokens, pawns, etc. Those aren't cheap considering how many of them you need to run an effective game. I'm not saying the price tag is necessary, but most people decide to pay to make a better experience for their players. And I think it's not fair that it's forced on the DM to schedule, make the game, pay for the materials, and pay for most of the books. Then you also have the issue of players sometimes being rude, devaluing your time, or forcing you to be a mediator of their childish conflict so you can continue playing the game you spent HOURS on. Paid Dming is no worse than going pro with videogames. Some people have the skill and rise to the top and others don't. The truth is it's no more corporatizing then getting paid for art, writing, acting, or whatever other hobby you can make money off of. You can spend 0 and run an effective game, but if you spend money you will run a better game with the maps, minis/tokens/pawns, and visual aids you purchase.
More or less this. I am my group's main DM, and it has kind of been on me to make all the big purchases. I have bought the books, minis, maps, and such. It does kind of fatigue the wallet a bit.
But in my case, I do believe that my players do care about what I do and respect the time involved. They do not typically ask me to pay for food when I DM. Also I would not say that they "expect" me to get minis for the game, that was something I was doing myself, because I felt like that was "the way to play". I have since discovered paper minis, I have not had a chance to utilized these yet, but I am excited to start using them and see how they turn out.
There is nothing per se wrong with paid DMing, it's just important to realize that it greatly changes the nature of the relationship between player and DM, so it's not something I'd consider doing with friends, and you can't think "Oh, it's the same thing I've always done, only I'm getting money for it" -- if you're trying to be paid, you're trying to be a professional entertainer. Also, 'help covering costs' is not the same thing as 'paid'.
There is nothing per se wrong with paid DMing, it's just important to realize that it greatly changes the nature of the relationship between player and DM, so it's not something I'd consider doing with friends, and you can't think "Oh, it's the same thing I've always done, only I'm getting money for it" -- if you're trying to be paid, you're trying to be a professional entertainer. Also, 'help covering costs' is not the same thing as 'paid'.
That is something i totally agree on. Also Paying for the Costs of Miniatures should not exceed the 300 euro per Year and even that is extreme. that should not make it up to 50 euro per sessions for a hole year. The relationship is something im woried about.
There's one fella who does DMing for one-shots and does a paid scheme as a 'tip' function. You play his games and if you enjoyed them enough, you can tip him! Uses it for his university funds and having something on the side while enjoying something he does while focusing from home on his work. No idea what the fella's username was. I was skimming over games a while back and saw it. It's a nice idea.
There's one fella who does DMing for one-shots and does a paid scheme as a 'tip' function. You play his games and if you enjoyed them enough, you can tip him! Uses it for his university funds and having something on the side while enjoying something he does while focusing from home on his work. No idea what the fella's username was. I was skimming over games a while back and saw it. It's a nice idea.
That sounds ok to me its diferent though on many levels.
There is nothing per se wrong with paid DMing, it's just important to realize that it greatly changes the nature of the relationship between player and DM, so it's not something I'd consider doing with friends, and you can't think "Oh, it's the same thing I've always done, only I'm getting money for it" -- if you're trying to be paid, you're trying to be a professional entertainer. Also, 'help covering costs' is not the same thing as 'paid'.
That is something i totally agree on. Also Paying for the Costs of Miniatures should not exceed the 300 euro per Year and even that is extreme. that should not make it up to 50 euro per sessions for a hole year. The relationship is something im woried about.
You go to a movie, you pay 15 bucks. You pay for food etc, you pay 20. Up to 35. That's a single person. You pay for a family of four, you're up to 140.
Most D&D groups are 4-6 people. Let's assume low end 4. You want someone to craft a story for you, respond to your personal whims and fancies and give you and friends a time that you'll find meaningful. You don't find that worth 50 bucks?
DM as a service is absolutely fine if the service you are paying for is worth it. If a random bloke at the pub(above example) sets up and wants to theater of the mind a session and then expects everyone to throw 20 bucks in the pot for his "service" that's a no, but if you go to someone's house you don't know who has hundreds of minis, all the books and crafts a story? That is content worth paying for. It doesn't have to be Matt Mercer and while I LOVE Critical Role I also feel that it sets an unrealistic bar for what the VAST MAJORITY of D&D games are going to achieve.
I think it really boils down to what people find acceptable to pay for content. The people in this thread who are OK with the DM as a service idea are probably the same people who have no issue subscribing to a twitch stream/youtube channel/patreon to help people develop content. The people against it probably don't feel that it is something they would do because they can just find other content in other places.
Content is content in the end, and paying the creator for said content is a valid and perfectly reasonable thing.
Capitalism is a wonderful thing! We are starting a new campaign tomorrow morning with a paid DM. I also DM my own in person games on Wednesdays so I don't have the time with work to be able to prep 2 games. The Sunday game we were trading off DM duties but it was disjointed and we all like playing more that DMing in that group. Wednesday game I have to DM as they are all NoObs and hopefully eventually I can convince one of them to DM, but there is a big learning curve. The new DM we have that's paid is amazing so far and has done more before our session zero that I have ever had a DM do. It could still crash and burn but it's looking good so far. I obviously have no problems with a paid DM, as long as it's worth it. That's a personal thing everyone has to weigh and with capitalism, if they are worth it then they will be paid. If they suck, not so much, so that's when the capitalism kicks in. If you provide a service that is worth someone's money, then charge fo it. If you suck at it, people will stop paying. I can tell you that my time is limited with work so paying for a good DM isn't really an issue. Hell, I'd pay Matt Mercer $50k for a game, but he's the GOAT and is the ultimate paid DM (even though he never even dreamed he would be paid to do it). Now paying a friend to DM may add some challenges and awkwardness so I may not do that (except for Matt, he can be my friend too), but maybe paying for miniatures or dwarven forge stuff could be better than just paying them.
There is nothing per se wrong with paid DMing, it's just important to realize that it greatly changes the nature of the relationship between player and DM, so it's not something I'd consider doing with friends, and you can't think "Oh, it's the same thing I've always done, only I'm getting money for it" -- if you're trying to be paid, you're trying to be a professional entertainer. Also, 'help covering costs' is not the same thing as 'paid'.
That is something i totally agree on. Also Paying for the Costs of Miniatures should not exceed the 300 euro per Year and even that is extreme. that should not make it up to 50 euro per sessions for a hole year. The relationship is something im woried about.
You go to a movie, you pay 15 bucks. You pay for food etc, you pay 20. Up to 35. That's a single person. You pay for a family of four, you're up to 140.
Most D&D groups are 4-6 people. Let's assume low end 4. You want someone to craft a story for you, respond to your personal whims and fancies and give you and friends a time that you'll find meaningful. You don't find that worth 50 bucks?
DM as a service is absolutely fine if the service you are paying for is worth it. If a random bloke at the pub(above example) sets up and wants to theater of the mind a session and then expects everyone to throw 20 bucks in the pot for his "service" that's a no, but if you go to someone's house you don't know who has hundreds of minis, all the books and crafts a story? That is content worth paying for. It doesn't have to be Matt Mercer and while I LOVE Critical Role I also feel that it sets an unrealistic bar for what the VAST MAJORITY of D&D games are going to achieve.
I think it really boils down to what people find acceptable to pay for content. The people in this thread who are OK with the DM as a service idea are probably the same people who have no issue subscribing to a twitch stream/youtube channel/patreon to help people develop content. The people against it probably don't feel that it is something they would do because they can just find other content in other places.
Content is content in the end, and paying the creator for said content is a valid and perfectly reasonable thing.
But are you as good at entertaining as those professional actors are at acting? Thats the main sticking point. Apart from the fact that if this becomes a trend it will push people away.
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A caffeinated nerd who has played TTRPGs or a number of years and is very much a fantasy adventure geek.
That’s why I said Critical Role sets a bar that is unrealistic. Everyone at the table is a properly trained professional actor and voice actor where the person running the show does it as a literal job. They have supporting casts behind the scene and a large community that helps.
Price points would be dependent on level of quality. How hard would be in 2020 to create some sort of review website or conglomeration of reviews of paid DMs. Having four people pay 25 bucks each for a total of 100 bucks? Games are generally four hours so you’re paying less than 7 dollars a hour. You walk into a house where the person has a fully graded out battle map, minis and has good ambiance? Even if my acting and reacting is sub par, that is TOTALLY worth that experience.
I think your analogy goes a bit too far. A paid dm, for all the work they might put in, is not going to be of equivalent production value to a movie. Lets also not forget that you are tacking the snacks and drinks into the cost of going to the movies but not for the paid dm (which is almost certainly going to be remote play over the internet in the majority of cases). You gotta pay for your food in the DM experience too, it might be cheaper, but its being tacked on ABOVE the session cost all the same. So what you are comparing is 15 bucks for a movie plus 20 bucks for food VS 50 bucks for a game plus 5 bucks for food.
Lets also not assume that a paid dm is automatically a better experience than a free dm; many dms that do not charge are rather passionate about the game, and an emotionally-invested dm has more at stake than someone looking at the campaign as a job.
Instead of 'going to a movie' it is more like paying some local actors to perform a play -- it can certainly be a good experience, but it is more expensive than going to the movies and you have a lot less certainty about the quality of the performance.
I don't have anything against paid dms, I just don't see a reason to glorify it. Perhaps once the scene develops further there can be a certain standard, but without knowing the quality of experience I am paying for, I for one am certainly not going to shell out 50$ a session. Not to mention you also get the dark side of players to worry about: players that are paying to play can also feel entitled to be able to do whatever they want. Even if the dm is solid, there are no guarantees that you will have a good time.
I think your analogy goes a bit too far. A paid dm, for all the work they might put in, is not going to be of equivalent production value to a movie. Lets also not forget that you are tacking the snacks and drinks into the cost of going to the movies but not for the paid dm (which is almost certainly going to be remote play over the internet in the majority of cases). You gotta pay for your food in the DM experience too, it might be cheaper, but its being tacked on ABOVE the session cost all the same. So what you are comparing is 15 bucks for a movie plus 20 bucks for food VS 50 bucks for a game plus 5 bucks for food.
Lets also not assume that a paid dm is automatically a better experience than a free dm; many dms that do not charge are rather passionate about the game, and an emotionally-invested dm has more at stake than someone looking at the campaign as a job.
Instead of 'going to a movie' it is more like paying some local actors to perform a play -- it can certainly be a good experience, but it is more expensive than going to the movies and you have a lot less certainty about the quality of the performance.
I don't have anything against paid dms, I just don't see a reason to glorify it. Perhaps once the scene develops further there can be a certain standard, but without knowing the quality of experience I am paying for, I for one am certainly not going to shell out 50$ a session. Not to mention you also get the dark side of players to worry about: players that are paying to play can also feel entitled to be able to do whatever they want. Even if the dm is solid, there are no guarantees that you will have a good time.
The difference is that a DM is nothing withouts its players, yes you are creating a world for others to play. But the game has to be fun for both. When you are DMing you want to see what is happening what unexpected choices they will make. You as a DM are not the driving force of your story. The players are. You just give them parameters to move in, or else you could just go on and write a book, then you can enjoy "your" story without people interfering.
I think your analogy goes a bit too far. A paid dm, for all the work they might put in, is not going to be of equivalent production value to a movie. Lets also not forget that you are tacking the snacks and drinks into the cost of going to the movies but not for the paid dm (which is almost certainly going to be remote play over the internet in the majority of cases). You gotta pay for your food in the DM experience too, it might be cheaper, but its being tacked on ABOVE the session cost all the same. So what you are comparing is 15 bucks for a movie plus 20 bucks for food VS 50 bucks for a game plus 5 bucks for food.
Lets also not assume that a paid dm is automatically a better experience than a free dm; many dms that do not charge are rather passionate about the game, and an emotionally-invested dm has more at stake than someone looking at the campaign as a job.
Instead of 'going to a movie' it is more like paying some local actors to perform a play -- it can certainly be a good experience, but it is more expensive than going to the movies and you have a lot less certainty about the quality of the performance.
I don't have anything against paid dms, I just don't see a reason to glorify it. Perhaps once the scene develops further there can be a certain standard, but without knowing the quality of experience I am paying for, I for one am certainly not going to shell out 50$ a session. Not to mention you also get the dark side of players to worry about: players that are paying to play can also feel entitled to be able to do whatever they want. Even if the dm is solid, there are no guarantees that you will have a good time.
The difference is that a DM is nothing withouts its players, yes you are creating a world for others to play. But the game has to be fun for both. When you are DMing you want to see what is happening what unexpected choices they will make. You as a DM are not the driving force of your story. The players are. You just give them parameters to move in, or else you could just go on and write a book, then you can enjoy "your" story without people interfering.
Ok.. so why should one "actor" get paid if each of the paying players are the key to the quality of entertainment that is being paid for? Especially at 50 bucks a head?
I offer my services as a DM-for-hire for parties and groups interested in trying the game out, especially when nobody knows the game well enough or has the desire to DM, which is increasingly common with the growing interest and destigmatization of D&D recently. I try to create a one-shot catering to what the party wants, with potential to continue the story either with me or with someone else taking up the mantle.
While I've only taken one gig, I also don't advertise myself more than just to my friends and immediate circle (mostly due to the fact that I'm already usually working 2 jobs).
I think it works best for one-shots for special occasions (I've heard of it for bachelor parties, birthday parties, etc), and depending on the DM, often costs less than a movie ticket.
I offer my services as a DM-for-hire for parties and groups interested in trying the game out, especially when nobody knows the game well enough or has the desire to DM, which is increasingly common with the growing interest and destigmatization of D&D recently. I try to create a one-shot catering to what the party wants, with potential to continue the story either with me or with someone else taking up the mantle.
While I've only taken one gig, I also don't advertise myself more than just to my friends and immediate circle (mostly due to the fact that I'm already usually working 2 jobs).
I think it works best for one-shots for special occasions (I've heard of it for bachelor parties, birthday parties, etc), and depending on the DM, often costs less than a movie ticket.
thats true but most people who saw that im a DM building up a server for people to enjoy dnd that has grown from 5 people to 80 in 3 months and has an active guild sistem where more after the chance to make some money. Even said that im not intrested. and they where expensive. the best price some people offered was 25 euros per session but still i did not want any pay to play, since im still pro free to play.
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I don't get why everyone is so against paid DMing. Do you not realize how much time and money it costs to be a good DM? Assuming you spend the hours needed to prepare a homebrew world so you don't have to buy a module, it's still going to cost at the very least 100$ for minis + another 20ish for every map. If you buy pawns it's cheaper, but not by much and unless you're running Pathfinder some of them will be useless (Not many but a few). So, just to start out DMing is going to cost about 120$ without including markers. Then assuming you bought cheap minis and the minis you'll need for the next few sessions, You've still gotta pay for new minis once you start using new monsters. DMing is a very expensive hobby. And I personally am willing to spend money on the hobby if I have to, but the thing is I don't have a bunch of money to spend so I can't make the experience as good as I'd want for my players.
The there's the issue of players not respecting the time we put in. My first ever home game fell apart because only one or two people would get back to me when I pinged everyone on the group chat. And even then the players who got back to me would cancel last minute or just not show up or be late. I've also had players intentionally sabotage one-shots because they could. Luckily, now I have a good group, but that might be because half of them are DM's/have DMed. Players are more committed if they spend money on the game, that's a fact. I found a good group, but not everyone has 30+ people playing DND in their small town (We have very few willing DMs though, so DMs often end up with 6+ players). Then, even in my good group I'm constantly being forced to mediate fights that break out between players. DMing can be the worst experience ever with the wrong group, if you set strict rules and have them pay then you're almost guaranteed to not get a uncommitted, disrespectful group.
Then for the third point we have online DMing and Roll20. Roll20 is a great website, but if you want to provide a great experience the character tokens alone will probably cost you 20$, unless you're extremely lucky and find tokens that work for every character in one place in which case the price will usually be less than 10$. Then you either have to make your own maps, which while cheaper takes more skill and time, or purchase maps on Roll20. Purchasing maps on Roll20 will probably run you about 50$ for some good quality, reusable maps, but to keep things intresting will definitely run you more than 100$ so you don't wind up reusing the same maps all the time. If you want the maps you make to look good you can spend about 7$ a month assuming you use Dungeonfog (which I recommend, cause once you learn how to use it you can make really good looking maps on there) which adds up to 85$ a year. If you decide to use just the roll 20 map creator then your maps won't look good but they'll work and it's free.
So, in conclusion DMing is too expensive for a casual hobby and while I would never ask 10$ an hour or something like that, something like 5$-10$ a session isn't bad and lets you recuperate some of the costs you take with being a DM, or you could ask players to pitch in, but if you have players like that your group is a unicorn.
call me Anna or Kerns, (she/her), usually a DM, lgbtq+ friendly
You don't need any of those things you mentioned to be a DM. I DM games where the player brings a mini they want to represent their character and we use hand-drawn maps. I have roll-up whiteboard stuff that cost me £50 that I have had since the beginning and the dry coloured markers cost me a couple of pounds every few months.
I hand draw battle maps as we go on the roll-up whiteboard, the players use their minis to represent themselves and I draw coloured markers for where each monster/creature is.
I also hand draw world maps on paper. My maps are not professional, but they don't need to be and because I hand draw the battle maps as we go I don't even need to cover them up with anything. I do have a small sketch of each battle map I want to use that session, which I keep out of sight of the players. That sketch is just my notes, so I have a reference for what I'm drawing as we go along.
Also, because my markers for monsters/creatures as just coloured dry marker marks, I don't need tons of minis either. I can reuse the colours for different types of monsters in different battles and I have enough colours to cover all the monsters/creatures that I need in each combat encounter.
My monetary costs for running a game is practically zero. The only real cost to me is in the time I put into it, but I have the time and I love world-building so don't even consider that as work. It's just fun. The players get to have fun playing in the world. I get to have fun making it.
Lastly, although I have a master tier subscription on DDB and a subscription to world anvil, we mostly still use paper in my games because I don't want my group to be wasting time flipping through screens. My players use DDB to make. their character and print their sheets before each session and I use world anvil for creating the world that they play in. You don't even need subscriptions to anything though and I'd be happy for you to turn up with a free print out of a premade character from the wizard's website if you are new to the game. Or even if your not, I'd be happy for you to use free fillable character sheets provides by wizards.
As for world-building and being a DM. Literally, all you need is your imagination and some paper to write your notes and story plots on.
What you need to play is the basic rules, a character sheet. Totally free from the wizard's website. You also need some dice, which cost £5 or a free dice dolling app and a pencil and some paper.
What you need to DM is the basic rules, DM resources and the SRD. Totally free from the wizard's website. You also need some pens, some dice or a free dice roller app, and some ideas for the kind of game you want to run, some paper and the willingness to just dive right in.
Sure you can buy stuff. Even expensive fancy stuff but you don't need to. You can literally play D&D without is costing you a penny and you can DM for just a couple of pounds, even free if you reuse pens and stuff you have around the house.
So I don't see how you can say it costs you hundreds of dollars. At least not unless you want to spend money.
The point is, it doesn't have to cost anything.
A caffeinated nerd who has played TTRPGs or a number of years and is very much a fantasy adventure geek.
What some of you don't seem to be getting is that utilizing the services of a paid DM is similar to going out with your friends to see a 3-4 hour movie. Yes, you and your friends could, for "free," stay at home and talk fan-fic to each-other for four hours, but if you are interested in investing in an "experience" then that is what a paid DM is offering. And yes, you may feel that your free-er experience is just as good and so don't feel that it is worth paying for the service, and that's fine, but the service exists for a target audience who is not you. It's there for people who have the money to spend and want a certain level of entertainment. It's like a birthday party clown or magician. Nothing is stopping you from not booking those performers and instead trying to entertain your own children, but there is a market for these people and they have clients for a reason.
This is the type of DM-as-service (paid DM) that I do not have a problem with. Your paying for professional entertainment. That's totally fine if the DM is professional, has a few years under their belt and or is a celebrity or sought after DM. Like I said. If Matt Mercer was to open up a game in his world to the public and charge a fee per head to come and play in his game with him as the DM, I'd pay for sure. If Barry who DMs in the local pub on a Friday night, started charging for people to join his games, I'd think that was going too far.
I also think there tends to be a theme with all DM-as-a-service ideas, that those people are going to become famous and or rich by charging to DM and if I may be blunt, I doubt those people can run a good game anyway as they're only focussed on the fame and money.
The other time when I think it's acceptable to charge is if you need to cover the cost of a room in your local community centre or something. We still have to be realistic though. I have DMed for community groups before who have charged £2 per head, per session, so that they could put donations into the community centre whose room they were using. Nobody minded paying that because they knew what it was for and where it was going. Charging with the intent of having a wage at the end of the month though is just wrong to me unless you're some highly professional DM who can provide the group with high-quality professional entertainment and you make it clear that your games are a paid-for service with a planned entertainment schedule.
In short, though, I shudder whenever j see questions like this (even though I have asked then myself in the past) because I worry about this becoming a trend and people being locked out of playing or having fun because that can't afford to pay or don't want to pay.
A caffeinated nerd who has played TTRPGs or a number of years and is very much a fantasy adventure geek.
Yes. you can play for free, but very few people do. Most people at least buy the books, which are usually the DM's responsibility to have. The core books are 30$ each and there's also Xanathar's guide, Volo's guide, and Mordenkainen's tome of foes which are once again 30$ each. That's 180$ for just the main 6 books. And, you're right you can play without minis, but most people play with minis, tokens, pawns, etc. Those aren't cheap considering how many of them you need to run an effective game. I'm not saying the price tag is necessary, but most people decide to pay to make a better experience for their players. And I think it's not fair that it's forced on the DM to schedule, make the game, pay for the materials, and pay for most of the books. Then you also have the issue of players sometimes being rude, devaluing your time, or forcing you to be a mediator of their childish conflict so you can continue playing the game you spent HOURS on. Paid Dming is no worse than going pro with videogames. Some people have the skill and rise to the top and others don't. The truth is it's no more corporatizing then getting paid for art, writing, acting, or whatever other hobby you can make money off of. You can spend 0 and run an effective game, but if you spend money you will run a better game with the maps, minis/tokens/pawns, and visual aids you purchase.
call me Anna or Kerns, (she/her), usually a DM, lgbtq+ friendly
It's a non-issue. Taking issue with how any person or group plays D&D is like being worried (bothered, afraid of, whatever) how others play a single player video game. It has 0 effect on you. Now, if you're in an MMO, it makes sense how one might complain or worry about the impact of other players in that game -- because somewhere, they may cross paths.
In D&D's case, a paid DM will NEVER affect you (or I) and the group we play with. So let them do as they do. Always.
All things Lich - DM tips, tricks, and other creative shenanigans
More or less this. I am my group's main DM, and it has kind of been on me to make all the big purchases. I have bought the books, minis, maps, and such. It does kind of fatigue the wallet a bit.
But in my case, I do believe that my players do care about what I do and respect the time involved. They do not typically ask me to pay for food when I DM. Also I would not say that they "expect" me to get minis for the game, that was something I was doing myself, because I felt like that was "the way to play". I have since discovered paper minis, I have not had a chance to utilized these yet, but I am excited to start using them and see how they turn out.
There is nothing per se wrong with paid DMing, it's just important to realize that it greatly changes the nature of the relationship between player and DM, so it's not something I'd consider doing with friends, and you can't think "Oh, it's the same thing I've always done, only I'm getting money for it" -- if you're trying to be paid, you're trying to be a professional entertainer. Also, 'help covering costs' is not the same thing as 'paid'.
That is something i totally agree on. Also Paying for the Costs of Miniatures should not exceed the 300 euro per Year and even that is extreme. that should not make it up to 50 euro per sessions for a hole year. The relationship is something im woried about.
There's one fella who does DMing for one-shots and does a paid scheme as a 'tip' function. You play his games and if you enjoyed them enough, you can tip him! Uses it for his university funds and having something on the side while enjoying something he does while focusing from home on his work. No idea what the fella's username was. I was skimming over games a while back and saw it. It's a nice idea.
That sounds ok to me its diferent though on many levels.
You go to a movie, you pay 15 bucks. You pay for food etc, you pay 20. Up to 35. That's a single person. You pay for a family of four, you're up to 140.
Most D&D groups are 4-6 people. Let's assume low end 4. You want someone to craft a story for you, respond to your personal whims and fancies and give you and friends a time that you'll find meaningful. You don't find that worth 50 bucks?
DM as a service is absolutely fine if the service you are paying for is worth it. If a random bloke at the pub(above example) sets up and wants to theater of the mind a session and then expects everyone to throw 20 bucks in the pot for his "service" that's a no, but if you go to someone's house you don't know who has hundreds of minis, all the books and crafts a story? That is content worth paying for. It doesn't have to be Matt Mercer and while I LOVE Critical Role I also feel that it sets an unrealistic bar for what the VAST MAJORITY of D&D games are going to achieve.
I think it really boils down to what people find acceptable to pay for content. The people in this thread who are OK with the DM as a service idea are probably the same people who have no issue subscribing to a twitch stream/youtube channel/patreon to help people develop content. The people against it probably don't feel that it is something they would do because they can just find other content in other places.
Content is content in the end, and paying the creator for said content is a valid and perfectly reasonable thing.
Capitalism is a wonderful thing! We are starting a new campaign tomorrow morning with a paid DM. I also DM my own in person games on Wednesdays so I don't have the time with work to be able to prep 2 games. The Sunday game we were trading off DM duties but it was disjointed and we all like playing more that DMing in that group. Wednesday game I have to DM as they are all NoObs and hopefully eventually I can convince one of them to DM, but there is a big learning curve. The new DM we have that's paid is amazing so far and has done more before our session zero that I have ever had a DM do. It could still crash and burn but it's looking good so far. I obviously have no problems with a paid DM, as long as it's worth it. That's a personal thing everyone has to weigh and with capitalism, if they are worth it then they will be paid. If they suck, not so much, so that's when the capitalism kicks in. If you provide a service that is worth someone's money, then charge fo it. If you suck at it, people will stop paying. I can tell you that my time is limited with work so paying for a good DM isn't really an issue. Hell, I'd pay Matt Mercer $50k for a game, but he's the GOAT and is the ultimate paid DM (even though he never even dreamed he would be paid to do it). Now paying a friend to DM may add some challenges and awkwardness so I may not do that (except for Matt, he can be my friend too), but maybe paying for miniatures or dwarven forge stuff could be better than just paying them.
But are you as good at entertaining as those professional actors are at acting? Thats the main sticking point. Apart from the fact that if this becomes a trend it will push people away.
A caffeinated nerd who has played TTRPGs or a number of years and is very much a fantasy adventure geek.
That’s why I said Critical Role sets a bar that is unrealistic. Everyone at the table is a properly trained professional actor and voice actor where the person running the show does it as a literal job. They have supporting casts behind the scene and a large community that helps.
Price points would be dependent on level of quality. How hard would be in 2020 to create some sort of review website or conglomeration of reviews of paid DMs. Having four people pay 25 bucks each for a total of 100 bucks? Games are generally four hours so you’re paying less than 7 dollars a hour. You walk into a house where the person has a fully graded out battle map, minis and has good ambiance? Even if my acting and reacting is sub par, that is TOTALLY worth that experience.
I think your analogy goes a bit too far. A paid dm, for all the work they might put in, is not going to be of equivalent production value to a movie. Lets also not forget that you are tacking the snacks and drinks into the cost of going to the movies but not for the paid dm (which is almost certainly going to be remote play over the internet in the majority of cases). You gotta pay for your food in the DM experience too, it might be cheaper, but its being tacked on ABOVE the session cost all the same. So what you are comparing is 15 bucks for a movie plus 20 bucks for food VS 50 bucks for a game plus 5 bucks for food.
Lets also not assume that a paid dm is automatically a better experience than a free dm; many dms that do not charge are rather passionate about the game, and an emotionally-invested dm has more at stake than someone looking at the campaign as a job.
Instead of 'going to a movie' it is more like paying some local actors to perform a play -- it can certainly be a good experience, but it is more expensive than going to the movies and you have a lot less certainty about the quality of the performance.
I don't have anything against paid dms, I just don't see a reason to glorify it. Perhaps once the scene develops further there can be a certain standard, but without knowing the quality of experience I am paying for, I for one am certainly not going to shell out 50$ a session. Not to mention you also get the dark side of players to worry about: players that are paying to play can also feel entitled to be able to do whatever they want. Even if the dm is solid, there are no guarantees that you will have a good time.
The difference is that a DM is nothing withouts its players, yes you are creating a world for others to play. But the game has to be fun for both. When you are DMing you want to see what is happening what unexpected choices they will make. You as a DM are not the driving force of your story. The players are. You just give them parameters to move in, or else you could just go on and write a book, then you can enjoy "your" story without people interfering.
Ok.. so why should one "actor" get paid if each of the paying players are the key to the quality of entertainment that is being paid for? Especially at 50 bucks a head?
I offer my services as a DM-for-hire for parties and groups interested in trying the game out, especially when nobody knows the game well enough or has the desire to DM, which is increasingly common with the growing interest and destigmatization of D&D recently. I try to create a one-shot catering to what the party wants, with potential to continue the story either with me or with someone else taking up the mantle.
While I've only taken one gig, I also don't advertise myself more than just to my friends and immediate circle (mostly due to the fact that I'm already usually working 2 jobs).
I think it works best for one-shots for special occasions (I've heard of it for bachelor parties, birthday parties, etc), and depending on the DM, often costs less than a movie ticket.
thats true but most people who saw that im a DM building up a server for people to enjoy dnd that has grown from 5 people to 80 in 3 months and has an active guild sistem where more after the chance to make some money. Even said that im not intrested. and they where expensive. the best price some people offered was 25 euros per session but still i did not want any pay to play, since im still pro free to play.