If you know, I have one player who is CN. He is in a few other campaigns and all the player/DM's agree.
This person DOES NOT play a CN character.
Just recently he attacked an owl that was favored by a goddess. WHO WAS ON OUR TEAM. He carries body parts in my campaign. The only character he plays 'Normal' is the barbarian he plays in his brothers campaign. We've talked to him multiple times, but guess what? He just doesn't care. I don't want to ban him, he's a really great guy IRL, and it makes me feel upset if I ban him. It really is funny.
He sounds more like Chaotic Evil than Chaotic Neutral. Consider changing his alignment. He gets no say in the matter. If he wants to be CE he needs to play that.
Otherwise not much you can do. You've tried talking to him and he doesn't care so you have two options:
1. Ban him if he's causing the other players to not have as much fun. Warn him that his choices are affecting everyone negatively and continuing will result in him being kicked from the game. Remind him it's not what a character would do, it's what a player should do (just in case he uses that old chestnut). If he doesn't change, boot him out.
2. If he's not affecting the group or they don't mind, then consider just putting up with it. Do remember you can ensure there are consequences to his actions. Otherwise, just play as normal.
Nothing else you can do.
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Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond. Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ thisFAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
CN alignments can swing quickly to evil depending on the player. Way we handled the alignment was good and evil do not matter, the player is out to get the most for themselves. This meant that any action was acceptable to their moral code as long as it benefited them. The difficult part was the player accepting consequences. If he attacked a sacred owl, the goddess should set in motion an attack on the character. The goddess will have a lot more resources.
Only one I had play CN switched alignment after a few tussles with guards, a druid circle, and an ex-adventure's daughter who decided she did not like the character's advances. Everything messed him up and was all caused by his actions in game. He went to the druid's and atoned. Ended up true neutral and acted to be fine after that.
Ultimately, it's an out-of-game issue: are you and the other players having less fun because of him? If the answer is yes, and you've already talked to him, the best thing to do might be to take one for the team and boot him. I understand that's hard, though, so do what you think is best.
We've talked to him multiple times, but guess what? He just doesn't care.
I know you say he is a great guy but IMO, a great person, and especially a friend, would not react like this. To just not care.
Your best bet is to stop playing with him. The only other option is to have him keep making you miserable, since he, in your words, "just doesn't care."
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WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
Not that hard to deal with this kind of behavior. You are the DM. Abuse the Rule of Cool, he is now cursted.
The key is to have the Goddess deal with him. Have the Goddess get really upset and act appropriately. Pick a number between 2-19. I suggest 15. Declare that the Goddesses' # and now that counts as natural 1. For him. Don't tell him this, just watch what he rolls and declare that it is a miss. Does no damage.
Have the sign of a dying owl magically appear on his body.
Have divine spells mysteriously work poorly on him. Healing from a cleric of the Goddess? Nope, he gets the minimum.
Not that hard to deal with this kind of behavior. You are the DM. Abuse the Rule of Cool, he is now cursted.
The key is to have the Goddess deal with him. Have the Goddess get really upset and act appropriately. Pick a number between 2-19. I suggest 15. Declare that the Goddesses' # and now that counts as natural 1. For him. Don't tell him this, just watch what he rolls and declare that it is a miss. Does no damage.
Have the sign of a dying owl magically appear on his body.
Have divine spells mysteriously work poorly on him. Healing from a cleric of the Goddess? Nope, he gets the minimum.
Don't... Don't do this
Ya there can be consequences for actions but this is basicly trying to fix out of behavior actions with in character ones. This just beats around the bush and especially the way its setup, feels unfair and unfun to be basicly punished especially this heavily, you need to talk your player in a mature manner not abuse your DM powers to force them to your will
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Marvarax andSora (Dragonborn) The retired fighter and WIP scholar - Glory
Brythel(Dwarf), The dwarf with a gun - survival at sea
Jaylin(Human), Paladin of Lathander's Ancient ways - The Seven Saints (Azura Claw)
Urselles(Goblin), Cleric of Eldath- The Wizard's challenge
Viclas Tyrin(Half Elf), Student of the Elven arts- Indrafatmoko's Defiance in Phlan
Not that hard to deal with this kind of behavior. You are the DM. Abuse the Rule of Cool, he is now cursted.
The key is to have the Goddess deal with him. Have the Goddess get really upset and act appropriately. Pick a number between 2-19. I suggest 15. Declare that the Goddesses' # and now that counts as natural 1. For him. Don't tell him this, just watch what he rolls and declare that it is a miss. Does no damage.
Have the sign of a dying owl magically appear on his body.
Have divine spells mysteriously work poorly on him. Healing from a cleric of the Goddess? Nope, he gets the minimum.
I like this solution😈
Had a bard acting like a thief in 1 campaign. Stole the gems from a dwarven temple idol's eyes.
Shortly thereafter he was struck blind.
Coincidence? After lengthy multisession atonement he got to see again. Didn't cure him of his thiefy tendencies, but he's real sure not to tick off any deities anymore.
Ya there can be consequences for actions but this is basicly trying to fix out of character behavior actions with in character ones
^^^This.
Do not address OOC issues with IC consequences. You are trying to deal with the personal tendencies and traits of a real human being by punishing the person's fictional creation -- his game piece, as it were. It won't work, because the underlying personality issue is still there. The player is clearly not someone who will learn a lesson from this because he has said, according to the OP, that he does not care. The entire table has told me, "we don't like this; it's not fun for us," and his response was "I don't care."
You cannot fix this kind of personal issue with a real person by having in-character stuff happen. He won't learn a lesson from having both a 1 and a 15 be an "auto fail" because he has "displeased a deity." He'll just get angry about it.
There is no way to fix this problem if the player in question literally does not care. You have to either live with him being an uncaring jack-hole who refuses to sacrifice his own gameplay interests for the good of the group. Or you have to cut the cord and tell him he is no longer welcome at the table. Having been in this situation, I do not envy the rest of the players or the DM at this point. It is miserable either way. Either you have to all put up with letting him be a jack-hole and everyone have a miserable time at the table. Or, you have to risk losing him not just from the table but as a friend forever. Given his stated attitude, there is no chance he's going to be an adult about this and be understanding if you excise him from the group, and realize that it's the best for everyone. The person described is far too selfish for that, and will only get angry and consider the treatment "unfair."
This player has literally put the DM and the rest of the group in a no-win situation. You have my sympathies, because it absolutely SUCKS to have this happen. And there is no good way to solve it. Both options (live with it, or kick him out) are horrible.
However, to the OP, I want to warn you: As bad as kicking him out seems, if you don't do it, the whole group is going to break up after not too long. The other players are going to not want to play at the table anymore and will stop showing up (or logging in, or however you are doing it). They will find excuses, find "more important" commitments. Because nobody plays D&D to have a miserable time. We play for fun. If it is not fun, there is no reason to play. So if you don't do the awful thing and kick him out, you're going to lose the whole campaign eventually.
I would just, OOC, address the "I don't care" remark. Explain to him that *you* care. That the other people at the table care. That you put work into preparing this game on your free time, and "not caring" about that is kinda disrespectful.
It's not kinda disrespectful. It's both disrespectful, and extremely selfish. "What you are doing is making the game less fun for us..." and he responds, "I don't care?" That is the height of selfishness. He sounds like he needs to go play a solo CRPG like Skyrim or Divinity Original Sin in which he can do that as much as he wants and nobody cares because the computer is his playmate instead of other people.
But you are going to play with other people, it is disrespectful (no "kinda" about it) and frankly downright rude, to tell them you don't care about their enjoyment of the game you are all playing together.
It's also ultimately self-destructive, because if he keeps it up, even if the DM is not willing to kick him out of the game, the other players will just stop playing with him.
If it's me, and the rest of the table is putting up with it, I'm probably making up some excuse not to show up every week already. And probably saying "I just can't commit to D&D at this time." I'd rather NOT play D&D, than play it with someone who flat out tells me he "does not care" if what he is doing is making the game not be fun for me and everyone else. Life is too short to waste it like that.
Also the character in question is my brother, and while I do have a few issues with him as a player, he just tends to get into the roleplay a little too much, and yes, his characters aren't the best, but he is trying. He has actually cut back quite a bit. He was also frustrated with the DM, who fell into the trap of so many new DMs and is/was really railroady. He was just frustrated with having a being that was outside the rules of D&D as a member of the party, and was taking it out in-character. He is a great guy OOC, and I'm not just saying that because we are siblings
If you know, I have one player who is CN. He is in a few other campaigns and all the player/DM's agree.
This person DOES NOT play a CN character.
Just recently he attacked an owl that was favored by a goddess. WHO WAS ON OUR TEAM. He carries body parts in my campaign. The only character he plays 'Normal' is the barbarian he plays in his brothers campaign. We've talked to him multiple times, but guess what? He just doesn't care. I don't want to ban him, he's a really great guy IRL, and it makes me feel upset if I ban him. It really is funny.
OK. Not much we can do.
He sounds more like Chaotic Evil than Chaotic Neutral. Consider changing his alignment. He gets no say in the matter. If he wants to be CE he needs to play that.
Otherwise not much you can do. You've tried talking to him and he doesn't care so you have two options:
1. Ban him if he's causing the other players to not have as much fun. Warn him that his choices are affecting everyone negatively and continuing will result in him being kicked from the game. Remind him it's not what a character would do, it's what a player should do (just in case he uses that old chestnut). If he doesn't change, boot him out.
2. If he's not affecting the group or they don't mind, then consider just putting up with it. Do remember you can ensure there are consequences to his actions. Otherwise, just play as normal.
Nothing else you can do.
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond.
Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ this FAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
This is a contradictory post. I dont know how to comment.
CN alignments can swing quickly to evil depending on the player. Way we handled the alignment was good and evil do not matter, the player is out to get the most for themselves. This meant that any action was acceptable to their moral code as long as it benefited them. The difficult part was the player accepting consequences. If he attacked a sacred owl, the goddess should set in motion an attack on the character. The goddess will have a lot more resources.
Only one I had play CN switched alignment after a few tussles with guards, a druid circle, and an ex-adventure's daughter who decided she did not like the character's advances. Everything messed him up and was all caused by his actions in game. He went to the druid's and atoned. Ended up true neutral and acted to be fine after that.
That's not CN, it's CE.
Ultimately, it's an out-of-game issue: are you and the other players having less fun because of him? If the answer is yes, and you've already talked to him, the best thing to do might be to take one for the team and boot him. I understand that's hard, though, so do what you think is best.
Wizard (Gandalf) of the Tolkien Club
I know you say he is a great guy but IMO, a great person, and especially a friend, would not react like this. To just not care.
Your best bet is to stop playing with him. The only other option is to have him keep making you miserable, since he, in your words, "just doesn't care."
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
Not that hard to deal with this kind of behavior. You are the DM. Abuse the Rule of Cool, he is now cursted.
The key is to have the Goddess deal with him. Have the Goddess get really upset and act appropriately. Pick a number between 2-19. I suggest 15. Declare that the Goddesses' # and now that counts as natural 1. For him. Don't tell him this, just watch what he rolls and declare that it is a miss. Does no damage.
Have the sign of a dying owl magically appear on his body.
Have divine spells mysteriously work poorly on him. Healing from a cleric of the Goddess? Nope, he gets the minimum.
Don't... Don't do this
Ya there can be consequences for actions but this is basicly trying to fix out of behavior actions with in character ones. This just beats around the bush and especially the way its setup, feels unfair and unfun to be basicly punished especially this heavily, you need to talk your player in a mature manner not abuse your DM powers to force them to your will
Marvarax and Sora (Dragonborn) The retired fighter and WIP scholar - Glory
Brythel(Dwarf), The dwarf with a gun - survival at sea
Jaylin(Human), Paladin of Lathander's Ancient ways - The Seven Saints (Azura Claw)
Urselles(Goblin), Cleric of Eldath- The Wizard's challenge
Viclas Tyrin(Half Elf), Student of the Elven arts- Indrafatmoko's Defiance in Phlan
I like this solution😈
Had a bard acting like a thief in 1 campaign. Stole the gems from a dwarven temple idol's eyes.
Shortly thereafter he was struck blind.
Coincidence? After lengthy multisession atonement he got to see again. Didn't cure him of his thiefy tendencies, but he's real sure not to tick off any deities anymore.
^^^This.
Do not address OOC issues with IC consequences. You are trying to deal with the personal tendencies and traits of a real human being by punishing the person's fictional creation -- his game piece, as it were. It won't work, because the underlying personality issue is still there. The player is clearly not someone who will learn a lesson from this because he has said, according to the OP, that he does not care. The entire table has told me, "we don't like this; it's not fun for us," and his response was "I don't care."
You cannot fix this kind of personal issue with a real person by having in-character stuff happen. He won't learn a lesson from having both a 1 and a 15 be an "auto fail" because he has "displeased a deity." He'll just get angry about it.
There is no way to fix this problem if the player in question literally does not care. You have to either live with him being an uncaring jack-hole who refuses to sacrifice his own gameplay interests for the good of the group. Or you have to cut the cord and tell him he is no longer welcome at the table. Having been in this situation, I do not envy the rest of the players or the DM at this point. It is miserable either way. Either you have to all put up with letting him be a jack-hole and everyone have a miserable time at the table. Or, you have to risk losing him not just from the table but as a friend forever. Given his stated attitude, there is no chance he's going to be an adult about this and be understanding if you excise him from the group, and realize that it's the best for everyone. The person described is far too selfish for that, and will only get angry and consider the treatment "unfair."
This player has literally put the DM and the rest of the group in a no-win situation. You have my sympathies, because it absolutely SUCKS to have this happen. And there is no good way to solve it. Both options (live with it, or kick him out) are horrible.
However, to the OP, I want to warn you: As bad as kicking him out seems, if you don't do it, the whole group is going to break up after not too long. The other players are going to not want to play at the table anymore and will stop showing up (or logging in, or however you are doing it). They will find excuses, find "more important" commitments. Because nobody plays D&D to have a miserable time. We play for fun. If it is not fun, there is no reason to play. So if you don't do the awful thing and kick him out, you're going to lose the whole campaign eventually.
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
I would just, OOC, address the "I don't care" remark. Explain to him that *you* care. That the other people at the table care. That you put work into preparing this game on your free time, and "not caring" about that is kinda disrespectful.
It's not kinda disrespectful. It's both disrespectful, and extremely selfish. "What you are doing is making the game less fun for us..." and he responds, "I don't care?" That is the height of selfishness. He sounds like he needs to go play a solo CRPG like Skyrim or Divinity Original Sin in which he can do that as much as he wants and nobody cares because the computer is his playmate instead of other people.
But you are going to play with other people, it is disrespectful (no "kinda" about it) and frankly downright rude, to tell them you don't care about their enjoyment of the game you are all playing together.
It's also ultimately self-destructive, because if he keeps it up, even if the DM is not willing to kick him out of the game, the other players will just stop playing with him.
If it's me, and the rest of the table is putting up with it, I'm probably making up some excuse not to show up every week already. And probably saying "I just can't commit to D&D at this time." I'd rather NOT play D&D, than play it with someone who flat out tells me he "does not care" if what he is doing is making the game not be fun for me and everyone else. Life is too short to waste it like that.
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
FTR, the OP is not the DM in this situation. I am in this game, and want to clear that up
I exist, and I guess so does this
Also the character in question is my brother, and while I do have a few issues with him as a player, he just tends to get into the roleplay a little too much, and yes, his characters aren't the best, but he is trying. He has actually cut back quite a bit. He was also frustrated with the DM, who fell into the trap of so many new DMs and is/was really railroady. He was just frustrated with having a being that was outside the rules of D&D as a member of the party, and was taking it out in-character. He is a great guy OOC, and I'm not just saying that because we are siblings
I exist, and I guess so does this
He also does not say "I don't care"
I exist, and I guess so does this
There are a lot of misconceptions/miscommunications here. The game is going well at this point
I exist, and I guess so does this