I would like to run something by everyone, as I am not sure if it is a good idea or not. It sounds good in my head, but I do not know if it would be too complicated or too challenging to pull off.
The idea is to have the party come across a group of three young street kids; two sisters and a brother, between the ages of twelve and eight, who have made a little den for themselves beneath the tarp of an abandoned market stall. It will be somewhat late in the evening, and the player's characters will hear excited children's voices and merriment coming from under the tarp. They will also see the shadows of the children as they play, and a low flickering light that is coming from within the kid's den.
Upon investigating, the party will discover the children playing a game, that is a very simplified version of D&D and dressed up in makeshift costumes that they have put together from rags and scraps of clothes they have found or stolen. These costumes will be reminiscent of three of the player's characters. They will have some antique-looking dice, that the party will later discover is a family heirloom from happier times and be right in the middle of fighting an evil Baron. At first, the kids will be startled by the disturbance. Still, seeing that the party is almost exactly like the characters that they have been pretending to be, they will get excited and ask the three party members that are missing from their game if they want to play.
These kids will be lost entirely in the moment of their fantasy and fun, not thinking of the danger of asking three adult adventurers to play a game with them, but rather how awesome it would be to have real-life party members join their game.
The remaining three members of the player's party will get to play the evil Baron and his minions.
What will follow is a highly simplified version of a D&D game, within a D&D game?
I am hoping that playing a game with these kids will help the party bond with them, as the plan is to make them into regular NPCs working for the party. Mostly, I want the party to adopt these kids because they will be valuable in the future, and I thought that having the party play a game with them, would help them to bond and feel emotionally attached to them - and what better game than D&D.
What do you guys think? Is playing a D&D game within a D&D game, good or bad idea?
Picking up random street kids? A bit weird and creepy if you ask me. If I was a kid playing games in the street and a bunch of random adults wearing weapons wanted to play with me I'd call the guards.
Picking up random street kids? A bit weird and creepy if you ask me. If I was a kid playing games in the street and a bunch of random adults wearing weapons wanted to play with me I'd call the guards.
That was not the way I intended it. It was meant to be the kids, who ware playing characters in their game reminiscent of the player's characters, who got excited about the prospect of playing a game with real-life adventurers who resembled their characters.
I see your point, though. It's a can of worms that could quickly come of as creepy if it isn't done right and I wouldn't want to put my players in a situation they weren't comfortable with.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
A caffeinated nerd who has played TTRPGs or a number of years and is very much a fantasy adventure geek.
Yeah, it still seems like a very weird and forced scenario. Even if we ignore the implications of having D&D within a game of D&D (why can't they just play make-belief or telling stories? The rpg aspect of it makes no sense) and the almost ridiculous coincidence of meeting people that "resemble their characters", what actual purpose does it serve to add a bunch of kids to the story? Is it something the players actually want and have asked for? If not, why add it at all?
Yeah, it still seems like a very weird and forced scenario. Even if we ignore the implications of having D&D within a game of D&D (why can't they just play make-belief or telling stories? The rpg aspect of it makes no sense) and the almost ridiculous coincidence of meeting people that "resemble their characters", what actual purpose does it serve to add a bunch of kids to the story? Is it something the players actually want and have asked for? If not, why add it at all?
I planned to hopefully make the players feel so emotionally attached to these kids and moved by their plight that they eventually adopt them. The children would then join the party as NPC party members; and although they would not get into fights, or follow the players into the liches crypt, they would prove to be valuable in a story and roleplay sense.
For one, none of my player's characters can cook. The oldest of these kids would prove to be quite a good cook. The food that she makes would be basic stews and things, but still far better than any of the rest of the party could cook up. Nothing that affects the core of the game, but it opens up so many stories and roleplay opportunities
The boys would turn out to be quite the little bards and extraordinarily good at singing and dancing, making up stories and games. Such talents might seem worthless at first, but the boy's antics would provide some lighthearted relief. Everyone needs to stop and play sometimes, and boys' bardic skills would prove invaluable at staving off depression and a feeling of hopelessness in a world where there are shadows hidden around every corner and every day might be your last.
Never underestimate the weight of the world, or the ability of two little bards to make your burden seem lighter - even if just for a little while.
Having spent several years as urchins, they also know the secret language of the streets, and how to make contact with others like themselves. Having a doorway into that world would prove to be quite a valuable resource for gathering, selling, and storing information. The kids are, of course, NPCs, and they are only children so that it would be the adult party members making the decisions, doing the bargaining, and so on. The kids would just get their foot in the door. Also, because they are only kids, they see the world through the eyes of children; and through their questions and comments, give the players a window into the minds and actions of their characters on the grand scale, by asking things like - why is killing all these goblins okay, when you said it was terrible for the goblins to kill all the villagers, and so on.
Through having the player's characters explain thoughts and reasoning and actions to the kids in a way that children can understand, I hope to give the players a perspective they would otherwise lack.
The kids are supposed to be utility NPCs that benefit the players in a variety of ways, in terms of story and roleplay, but who do not make any of the decisions about where the party goes or what they do when they get there. They won't fight or follow the party into dangerous places like dungeons. They would be there strictly to prove utility to the party outside of combat and social encounters that are important to the story.
I also want to give the party something to care about, other than just blazing and getting to the end so they can kill the bad guy. In caring about these kids, they would be opening up story hooks into sidequests that would not advance the main story, as much as give the players more lore and information about the world, while completing a sweet little quest they might have otherwise missed.
The idea about playing D&D within D&D was meant to be like an existential 4th wall break. A little nod that is given by the game to say -- "ya, I know I am not real, know I am fantasy - or am I?"
So, there you have it—my thoughts and reasonings behind including these kids and the purpose for D&D within D&D.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
A caffeinated nerd who has played TTRPGs or a number of years and is very much a fantasy adventure geek.
Again, is this, both having some random kids forced upon them and the immerssion/4th wall breaking of the game within the game, something that the players have asked for? Otherwise it just seems plain weird. Why would a bunch of adventurers pick these three particular kids to adopt over the presumably thousands of others? So that they don't have to bother to learn cooking? For the kids to act as personal entertainers and servants to a bunch of killers/adventurers? Not to mention the stereotypical "the girl cook, the boys do fun stuff".
What if not all of your players are OK with this? Are you going to forced the kids upon them anyway? If all your players care about is "just blazing and getting to the end so they can kill the bad guy", I'm not sure that forcing a bunch of urchins on them in the hopes of their parenting instincts to kick in is the right way to go...
No, but in the few discord sessions we have played so far, they are getting through the story too fast because they aren't doing anything but working their way through it. They aren't doing side quests or exploring the world and only stop for short rests and things to refill or refresh their supplies and resources and then they're off again working towards the end.
They're not murder hobos or anything they are the exact opposite. They will only kill something if killing it will progress them one step closer to getting to the big bad boss. Otherwise, they won't even interact with it.
We have only done two discord sessions so far, and they have already completed the whole four sessions worth of material that I had prepared because they're bypassing everything that doesn't get them to the boss or that they think won't get them to the boss.
In very basic turns, cutting down on a lot of the discussions and chat, this is how it has been going.
------
"Do you not want to explore the keep more? This is a keep built by a noble family who is reasonably well known and wealthy in these parts; there could be quite a bit of treasure hidden around here."
"No, we have the key to the war room, let's just go and get the map."
"You have the map of the Aurtorii camp. The map shows the locations of the Aurtorii scouts and the patrol routes of the watch. You could probably sell this information to the Hirtia for a small fortune."
"Will we have time to do that and still be able to sabotage the Aurtorii war machines?"
"There is a chance that some of the war machines will already be deployed by the time you get back from dealing with the Hirtia, but you will most likely be able to stop some of them."
"Then we will just go and sabotage the war machines now."
------
So they are just blazing through everything so fast like it is a video game, and I wanted to try and make them care about something other than just getting to kill the big boss at the end so that they would slow down.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
A caffeinated nerd who has played TTRPGs or a number of years and is very much a fantasy adventure geek.
Picking up random street kids? A bit weird and creepy if you ask me. If I was a kid playing games in the street and a bunch of random adults wearing weapons wanted to play with me I'd call the guards.
Yeah, it still seems like a very weird and forced scenario. Even if we ignore the implications of having D&D within a game of D&D (why can't they just play make-belief or telling stories? The rpg aspect of it makes no sense) and the almost ridiculous coincidence of meeting people that "resemble their characters", what actual purpose does it serve to add a bunch of kids to the story? Is it something the players actually want and have asked for? If not, why add it at all?
I planned to hopefully make the players feel so emotionally attached to these kids and moved by their plight that they eventually adopt them. .
Can you stop with the posts about children on the forum, you are just weirding me out and suspicious of your fantasies. This should be a family friendly forum.
I am sorry to hear that my post has made you uncomfortable, that was not my intention. I was already begining to think that this this was a bad idea based upon the comments that I got, but you are right, no matter how innocent the original intent of the idea, if it is.making others feel uneasy or bad, we need to stop.discussing it and move on.
Sorry again, and thanks for bringing this up.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
A caffeinated nerd who has played TTRPGs or a number of years and is very much a fantasy adventure geek.
No, but in the few discord sessions we have played so far, they are getting through the story too fast because they aren't doing anything but working their way through it. They aren't doing side quests or exploring the world and only stop for short rests and things to refill or refresh their supplies and resources and then they're off again working towards the end.
They're not murder hobos or anything they are the exact opposite. They will only kill something if killing it will progress them one step closer to getting to the big bad boss. Otherwise, they won't even interact with it.
We have only done two discord sessions so far, and they have already completed the whole four sessions worth of material that I had prepared because they're bypassing everything that doesn't get them to the boss or that they think won't get them to the boss.
In very basic turns, cutting down on a lot of the discussions and chat, this is how it has been going.
------
"Do you not want to explore the keep more? This is a keep built by a noble family who is reasonably well known and wealthy in these parts; there could be quite a bit of treasure hidden around here."
"No, we have the key to the war room, let's just go and get the map."
"You have the map of the Aurtorii camp. The map shows the locations of the Aurtorii scouts and the patrol routes of the watch. You could probably sell this information to the Hirtia for a small fortune."
"Will we have time to do that and still be able to sabotage the Aurtorii war machines?"
"There is a chance that some of the war machines will already be deployed by the time you get back from dealing with the Hirtia, but you will most likely be able to stop some of them."
"Then we will just go and sabotage the war machines now."
------
So they are just blazing through everything so fast like it is a video game, and I wanted to try and make them care about something other than just getting to kill the big boss at the end so that they would slow down.
Yeah, forcing a bunch of kids upon players that obviously seem to lack any kind of interest in that kind of play is a bad idea. Have you tried actually talking to *your players*? It seems that you don't really know what they want from the campaign and if all they want to do is quickly kill of the bad guy then it's a bit weird to come up with this to try to change their minds.
If you for some reason do want to force them to explore more of your word there are ways that are a lot better. For example, if you want them to explore the keep, don't tell them the exact room where the key (or whatever the macguffin is) but rather that it can be in one of several locations. Then you just make it not be in the first place they look for it. If they need to destroy a bunch of war machines, have a few of them be in a different location so that they have to pass through your village of hidden elves, or whatever. Give them two equally important tasks but let them know that they can probably only succeed in one of them in the time given. It doesn't even have to matter, long-term, which task they chose, the important thing is that they got to choose. These are just things I thought up while writing this post and non of them included forced adoption or immersion-breaking metagames.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
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I would like to run something by everyone, as I am not sure if it is a good idea or not. It sounds good in my head, but I do not know if it would be too complicated or too challenging to pull off.
The idea is to have the party come across a group of three young street kids; two sisters and a brother, between the ages of twelve and eight, who have made a little den for themselves beneath the tarp of an abandoned market stall. It will be somewhat late in the evening, and the player's characters will hear excited children's voices and merriment coming from under the tarp. They will also see the shadows of the children as they play, and a low flickering light that is coming from within the kid's den.
Upon investigating, the party will discover the children playing a game, that is a very simplified version of D&D and dressed up in makeshift costumes that they have put together from rags and scraps of clothes they have found or stolen. These costumes will be reminiscent of three of the player's characters. They will have some antique-looking dice, that the party will later discover is a family heirloom from happier times and be right in the middle of fighting an evil Baron. At first, the kids will be startled by the disturbance. Still, seeing that the party is almost exactly like the characters that they have been pretending to be, they will get excited and ask the three party members that are missing from their game if they want to play.
These kids will be lost entirely in the moment of their fantasy and fun, not thinking of the danger of asking three adult adventurers to play a game with them, but rather how awesome it would be to have real-life party members join their game.
The remaining three members of the player's party will get to play the evil Baron and his minions.
What will follow is a highly simplified version of a D&D game, within a D&D game?
I am hoping that playing a game with these kids will help the party bond with them, as the plan is to make them into regular NPCs working for the party. Mostly, I want the party to adopt these kids because they will be valuable in the future, and I thought that having the party play a game with them, would help them to bond and feel emotionally attached to them - and what better game than D&D.
What do you guys think? Is playing a D&D game within a D&D game, good or bad idea?
--- Foxes et al
A caffeinated nerd who has played TTRPGs or a number of years and is very much a fantasy adventure geek.
Picking up random street kids? A bit weird and creepy if you ask me. If I was a kid playing games in the street and a bunch of random adults wearing weapons wanted to play with me I'd call the guards.
That was not the way I intended it. It was meant to be the kids, who ware playing characters in their game reminiscent of the player's characters, who got excited about the prospect of playing a game with real-life adventurers who resembled their characters.
I see your point, though. It's a can of worms that could quickly come of as creepy if it isn't done right and I wouldn't want to put my players in a situation they weren't comfortable with.
A caffeinated nerd who has played TTRPGs or a number of years and is very much a fantasy adventure geek.
Yeah, it still seems like a very weird and forced scenario. Even if we ignore the implications of having D&D within a game of D&D (why can't they just play make-belief or telling stories? The rpg aspect of it makes no sense) and the almost ridiculous coincidence of meeting people that "resemble their characters", what actual purpose does it serve to add a bunch of kids to the story? Is it something the players actually want and have asked for? If not, why add it at all?
I planned to hopefully make the players feel so emotionally attached to these kids and moved by their plight that they eventually adopt them. The children would then join the party as NPC party members; and although they would not get into fights, or follow the players into the liches crypt, they would prove to be valuable in a story and roleplay sense.
For one, none of my player's characters can cook. The oldest of these kids would prove to be quite a good cook. The food that she makes would be basic stews and things, but still far better than any of the rest of the party could cook up. Nothing that affects the core of the game, but it opens up so many stories and roleplay opportunities
The boys would turn out to be quite the little bards and extraordinarily good at singing and dancing, making up stories and games. Such talents might seem worthless at first, but the boy's antics would provide some lighthearted relief. Everyone needs to stop and play sometimes, and boys' bardic skills would prove invaluable at staving off depression and a feeling of hopelessness in a world where there are shadows hidden around every corner and every day might be your last.
Never underestimate the weight of the world, or the ability of two little bards to make your burden seem lighter - even if just for a little while.
Having spent several years as urchins, they also know the secret language of the streets, and how to make contact with others like themselves. Having a doorway into that world would prove to be quite a valuable resource for gathering, selling, and storing information. The kids are, of course, NPCs, and they are only children so that it would be the adult party members making the decisions, doing the bargaining, and so on. The kids would just get their foot in the door. Also, because they are only kids, they see the world through the eyes of children; and through their questions and comments, give the players a window into the minds and actions of their characters on the grand scale, by asking things like - why is killing all these goblins okay, when you said it was terrible for the goblins to kill all the villagers, and so on.
Through having the player's characters explain thoughts and reasoning and actions to the kids in a way that children can understand, I hope to give the players a perspective they would otherwise lack.
The kids are supposed to be utility NPCs that benefit the players in a variety of ways, in terms of story and roleplay, but who do not make any of the decisions about where the party goes or what they do when they get there. They won't fight or follow the party into dangerous places like dungeons. They would be there strictly to prove utility to the party outside of combat and social encounters that are important to the story.
I also want to give the party something to care about, other than just blazing and getting to the end so they can kill the bad guy. In caring about these kids, they would be opening up story hooks into sidequests that would not advance the main story, as much as give the players more lore and information about the world, while completing a sweet little quest they might have otherwise missed.
The idea about playing D&D within D&D was meant to be like an existential 4th wall break. A little nod that is given by the game to say -- "ya, I know I am not real, know I am fantasy - or am I?"
So, there you have it—my thoughts and reasonings behind including these kids and the purpose for D&D within D&D.
A caffeinated nerd who has played TTRPGs or a number of years and is very much a fantasy adventure geek.
Again, is this, both having some random kids forced upon them and the immerssion/4th wall breaking of the game within the game, something that the players have asked for? Otherwise it just seems plain weird. Why would a bunch of adventurers pick these three particular kids to adopt over the presumably thousands of others? So that they don't have to bother to learn cooking? For the kids to act as personal entertainers and servants to a bunch of killers/adventurers? Not to mention the stereotypical "the girl cook, the boys do fun stuff".
What if not all of your players are OK with this? Are you going to forced the kids upon them anyway? If all your players care about is "just blazing and getting to the end so they can kill the bad guy", I'm not sure that forcing a bunch of urchins on them in the hopes of their parenting instincts to kick in is the right way to go...
No, but in the few discord sessions we have played so far, they are getting through the story too fast because they aren't doing anything but working their way through it. They aren't doing side quests or exploring the world and only stop for short rests and things to refill or refresh their supplies and resources and then they're off again working towards the end.
They're not murder hobos or anything they are the exact opposite. They will only kill something if killing it will progress them one step closer to getting to the big bad boss. Otherwise, they won't even interact with it.
We have only done two discord sessions so far, and they have already completed the whole four sessions worth of material that I had prepared because they're bypassing everything that doesn't get them to the boss or that they think won't get them to the boss.
In very basic turns, cutting down on a lot of the discussions and chat, this is how it has been going.
------
"Do you not want to explore the keep more? This is a keep built by a noble family who is reasonably well known and wealthy in these parts; there could be quite a bit of treasure hidden around here."
"No, we have the key to the war room, let's just go and get the map."
"You have the map of the Aurtorii camp. The map shows the locations of the Aurtorii scouts and the patrol routes of the watch. You could probably sell this information to the Hirtia for a small fortune."
"Will we have time to do that and still be able to sabotage the Aurtorii war machines?"
"There is a chance that some of the war machines will already be deployed by the time you get back from dealing with the Hirtia, but you will most likely be able to stop some of them."
"Then we will just go and sabotage the war machines now."
------
So they are just blazing through everything so fast like it is a video game, and I wanted to try and make them care about something other than just getting to kill the big boss at the end so that they would slow down.
A caffeinated nerd who has played TTRPGs or a number of years and is very much a fantasy adventure geek.
I am sorry to hear that my post has made you uncomfortable, that was not my intention. I was already begining to think that this this was a bad idea based upon the comments that I got, but you are right, no matter how innocent the original intent of the idea, if it is.making others feel uneasy or bad, we need to stop.discussing it and move on.
Sorry again, and thanks for bringing this up.
A caffeinated nerd who has played TTRPGs or a number of years and is very much a fantasy adventure geek.
Yeah, forcing a bunch of kids upon players that obviously seem to lack any kind of interest in that kind of play is a bad idea. Have you tried actually talking to *your players*? It seems that you don't really know what they want from the campaign and if all they want to do is quickly kill of the bad guy then it's a bit weird to come up with this to try to change their minds.
If you for some reason do want to force them to explore more of your word there are ways that are a lot better. For example, if you want them to explore the keep, don't tell them the exact room where the key (or whatever the macguffin is) but rather that it can be in one of several locations. Then you just make it not be in the first place they look for it. If they need to destroy a bunch of war machines, have a few of them be in a different location so that they have to pass through your village of hidden elves, or whatever. Give them two equally important tasks but let them know that they can probably only succeed in one of them in the time given. It doesn't even have to matter, long-term, which task they chose, the important thing is that they got to choose. These are just things I thought up while writing this post and non of them included forced adoption or immersion-breaking metagames.