I'm back to playing D&D after being a DM with every system starting with AD&D except 4th edition which I skipped. So far, I'm loving 5th edition should have returned earlier. The only parts I've disliked so far are healing and recovery. I didn't like how a person who almost died is up on their feet in no time like nothing happened. I've got a few tweeks and would like some input regarding if I'm going too far.
1. No straight Hit Point healing after a Long Rest. You just get 1/2 the HD back which you can immediately use for heals if you wish.
2. Healer's Kits and First Aid: I didn't like the idea that simply having the kit allowed an automatic bandaging during a first aid attempt. I still wanted a Medicine check involved. At first I think I went too far by requiring a Healer's Kit use to be expended (only used up when successful) on the first aid check, or the roll gets Disadvantage. This was too much during play (death saves being made while someone attempts first aid repeatedly). I then swapped to that the First Aid roll gets Advantage instead IF a use is expended. But, still no automatic success with the kit (but with advantage and a DC 10, it's likely).
3. Healer's Kits and Healing: I've also toyed with the idea that if you expend a use from a Healer's Kit after a Short or Long Rest, you get to roll any of your HD with "advantage" (when rolling a d8, you roll two and take the best to see how much you heal). I don't think this is game upsetting since I've removed the automatic HP heal during a Long Rest. However, I'm worried that it could be a chore at higher levels?? (example: 16th fighter wants to use up to 8 HD for healing during a Short Rest, expends a Healer's Kit use, has to roll 2d10 eight times noting the best result each time). I suppose that's not much different then 1d10 eight times, but I'm assuming at higher levels players are grabbing a few dice at first and rolling them at once, then rolling 1 at a time when they get closer to being fully healed? They couldn't do that with what I'm proposing unless I allow something like 4 HD expended by rolling 8 HD at once and taking the best 4 results, which will actually be much better then rolling 2 at a time. I guess I still might be ok with that though.
4. Exhaustion applied after a person returns from 0 HP by becoming Stable. Exhaustion 1 is applied plus 1 more level per Death Save failed. Example: You went unconscious, failed one Death Save, but succeeded 3 times. You heal 1 HP but have Exhaustion 2. A Long Rest with food/water or Greater Restoration removes 1 Exhaustion per RAW. I included notes on what happens if you died and came back to life with the various spells while dumping any direct penalties given when being raised, etc. Revivify gives Exhaustion as already described above, Raise Dead Exhaustion 4, Rez Exhaustion 5, True Rez no Exhaustion.
Thoughts on anything I may not be considering? Only play-tested once so far.
I think it will slow the game down a lot and potentially derail an entire season. It's fine I suppose but you'll find your players just taking a bunch of long rests to recover instead of just one. Worse still if there is a time sensitive mission the party is on they're probably have to leave the injured player at a town and continue on.
I think the mechanic that exists is a little silly but it makes for less downtime which is good. You're punishing your players quite a bit for what is likely just unfortunate dice rolls. Your way is certainly more sensible but I think will ultimately be less fun. That's me though. Tables that value RP over anything else might like it. Still, RPing a super injured person might not be fun for long.
I too agree that healing and resting in this game is OP. I like your ideas, especially exhaustion after being knocked down and getting back up.
I approach it in a different way. I did away with the short rest and renamed it just "rest". It covers the 8 hour time frame of a long rest but is only a short rest mechanically. If you want a long rest, that takes several days to a week to accomplish depending on how injured you are, and you can only do so in a place of obvious safety like a town's inn.
It completely changes the tone of the game, and players will be much more serious and careful when out adventuring. There is a very real chance players will end up scurrying back to town licking their wounds after setting forth, and I like that sense of danger.
Also I doesn't force me to go so heavy handed just to provide a challenge. When players can just long rest once a day willy-nilly, you really do need to throw a lot at them just to provide a challenge. With these resting rules, that dynamic changes- just a few goblins can be scary.
A lot of people want more hack and slash over hide and heal BUT, I can see the appeal of running a very gritty, survival based game style as well. That said, have you read over all the optional rules covering resting, healing, massive damage and injuries? It seems like you might have seen some of them. These are covered in the DMG.
I think a better solution is just to change how you think of HP. Like Matt Coville said at the beginning of his "Let's Kill a PC" video (https://youtu.be/xZdS8lP-Sdo), we naturally assume HP is analogous to physical health, but as you point out, there's a lot about that that doesn't fully make sense: you can't just sleep off being stabbed through the leg, injuries don't work that way, etc.
But that's because that's a wrong assumption. Hit Points don't measure physical health directly, but rather they measure a combination of your characters physical health, willpower, and capacity for heroism. Likewise, getting "hit" and losing HP is not necessarily analogous to getting wounded. Let's say there's two swordsmen are dueling and one of them thrusts, causing the other to expend more than the usual amount of energy to avoid the attack, and maybe even sacrifices sure footing leaving them vulnerable to a fatal attack. In D&D terms, I would classify that thrust as a "hit," and that lost energy and ill-footing would be represented by a loss of HP.
In that light, healing magic and recovering HP by resting makes much more sense. The only physical wounds you're recovering from are superficial bumps and scrapes, and you recover your will to fight on during a rest, or a cleric casts a healing spell on you and their god blesses you with the strength to meet your enemy.
(I def recommend watching that video, since HP has always been kind of an 'out-there' concept that many gamers have had problems with, but the context he puts it in really straightens it out).
The only thing this accomplishes is that the party are going to spend a lot more time recovering between periods of activity.
What I’d suggest instead, because it involves a lot less work on the part of you and your players, is to use the variant resting rules in the DMG that make a short rest 8 hours and a long rest a week. This accomplishes the same thing but does so a lot more simply. Something to note is that it also impacts the rate at which spellcasters recover spell slots, which is... fine, if you ask me.
I think it depends on your party. If they like a survival challenge type game then maybe this would be fun, but if they want to be hero’s, and you know save the world perhaps using the standard rules would be the best.
I agree the current (5e) rules for a long rest (and a short rest) healing a player strain credibility but there are a lot of things to consider.
The short answer (and I don't do this often), using the 5e rules is more fun for everyone unless the table wants to RP a long recovery.
AD&D allowed us to heal 1HD per long rest, although we didn't call it a long rest. It could take two days for a level 1 character to recover if they rolled low after the first night. So we ended up using spell slots to heal up after combat.
I respect the desire to have a more gritty method because it helps get the party to treat an encounter as a serious problem, and many times parties can steamroll a combat even if they lose half their HP. I was thinking that having the party carry and use potions of healing would at least create a 'gold suck' they'd wish to avoid. But in the name of fun, I'd be very cautious how you messed with this bit of the rules.
Good luck and have fun.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt
I’m in a couple different groups that handle it differently and I don’t mind either one. In one, upon coming back from being unconscious or dead (say from revivify), you take 1-3 levels of exhaustion (we do d4-1). In the other, upon coming back you have to make a tough save or you are “stunned” and basically lying on the ground wondering what happened. The second is really only harsh during combat where you lose turns while the first can be really debilitating. Either way you aren’t coming back scott free. We do use normal rest rules.
I looked at some online notes regarding the DMG alternate rules which inspired some of my rules. I didn't want to muck with making a Long Rest a week since that will create other changes regarding spells. But, perhaps that won't be a bad thing down the road?
I didn't use the Long Rest and Short Rest buttons on the D&D Beyond character sheets during our first session just adjusting things manually. Are there settings to use the alt rules in the DMG?
Thanks folks for all of the responses. I'm going to give my 2nd version of my house rules another go during my next session and see how it goes.
I looked at some online notes regarding the DMG alternate rules which inspired some of my rules. I didn't want to muck with making a Long Rest a week since that will create other changes regarding spells. But, perhaps that won't be a bad thing down the road?
I didn't use the Long Rest and Short Rest buttons on the D&D Beyond character sheets during our first session just adjusting things manually. Are there settings to use the alt rules in the DMG?
Thanks folks for all of the responses. I'm going to give my 2nd version of my house rules another go during my next session and see how it goes.
Keep in mind, if you are essentially eliminating short rests, certain classes will be significantly hurt by it. Warlocks and fighters In particular have a lot of short rest abilities that are balanced around multiple short rests per day.
Keep in mind, if you are essentially eliminating short rests, certain classes will be significantly hurt by it. Warlocks and fighters In particular have a lot of short rest abilities that are balanced around multiple short rests per day.
I didn't eliminate Short Rests at all. I meant I was doing things manually instead of hitting the Short Rest or Long Rest buttons on the character sheets in Beyond.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I'm back to playing D&D after being a DM with every system starting with AD&D except 4th edition which I skipped. So far, I'm loving 5th edition should have returned earlier. The only parts I've disliked so far are healing and recovery. I didn't like how a person who almost died is up on their feet in no time like nothing happened. I've got a few tweeks and would like some input regarding if I'm going too far.
1. No straight Hit Point healing after a Long Rest. You just get 1/2 the HD back which you can immediately use for heals if you wish.
2. Healer's Kits and First Aid: I didn't like the idea that simply having the kit allowed an automatic bandaging during a first aid attempt. I still wanted a Medicine check involved. At first I think I went too far by requiring a Healer's Kit use to be expended (only used up when successful) on the first aid check, or the roll gets Disadvantage. This was too much during play (death saves being made while someone attempts first aid repeatedly). I then swapped to that the First Aid roll gets Advantage instead IF a use is expended. But, still no automatic success with the kit (but with advantage and a DC 10, it's likely).
3. Healer's Kits and Healing: I've also toyed with the idea that if you expend a use from a Healer's Kit after a Short or Long Rest, you get to roll any of your HD with "advantage" (when rolling a d8, you roll two and take the best to see how much you heal). I don't think this is game upsetting since I've removed the automatic HP heal during a Long Rest. However, I'm worried that it could be a chore at higher levels?? (example: 16th fighter wants to use up to 8 HD for healing during a Short Rest, expends a Healer's Kit use, has to roll 2d10 eight times noting the best result each time). I suppose that's not much different then 1d10 eight times, but I'm assuming at higher levels players are grabbing a few dice at first and rolling them at once, then rolling 1 at a time when they get closer to being fully healed? They couldn't do that with what I'm proposing unless I allow something like 4 HD expended by rolling 8 HD at once and taking the best 4 results, which will actually be much better then rolling 2 at a time. I guess I still might be ok with that though.
4. Exhaustion applied after a person returns from 0 HP by becoming Stable. Exhaustion 1 is applied plus 1 more level per Death Save failed. Example: You went unconscious, failed one Death Save, but succeeded 3 times. You heal 1 HP but have Exhaustion 2. A Long Rest with food/water or Greater Restoration removes 1 Exhaustion per RAW. I included notes on what happens if you died and came back to life with the various spells while dumping any direct penalties given when being raised, etc. Revivify gives Exhaustion as already described above, Raise Dead Exhaustion 4, Rez Exhaustion 5, True Rez no Exhaustion.
Thoughts on anything I may not be considering? Only play-tested once so far.
I think it will slow the game down a lot and potentially derail an entire season. It's fine I suppose but you'll find your players just taking a bunch of long rests to recover instead of just one. Worse still if there is a time sensitive mission the party is on they're probably have to leave the injured player at a town and continue on.
I think the mechanic that exists is a little silly but it makes for less downtime which is good. You're punishing your players quite a bit for what is likely just unfortunate dice rolls. Your way is certainly more sensible but I think will ultimately be less fun. That's me though. Tables that value RP over anything else might like it. Still, RPing a super injured person might not be fun for long.
I too agree that healing and resting in this game is OP. I like your ideas, especially exhaustion after being knocked down and getting back up.
I approach it in a different way. I did away with the short rest and renamed it just "rest". It covers the 8 hour time frame of a long rest but is only a short rest mechanically. If you want a long rest, that takes several days to a week to accomplish depending on how injured you are, and you can only do so in a place of obvious safety like a town's inn.
It completely changes the tone of the game, and players will be much more serious and careful when out adventuring. There is a very real chance players will end up scurrying back to town licking their wounds after setting forth, and I like that sense of danger.
Also I doesn't force me to go so heavy handed just to provide a challenge. When players can just long rest once a day willy-nilly, you really do need to throw a lot at them just to provide a challenge. With these resting rules, that dynamic changes- just a few goblins can be scary.
A lot of people want more hack and slash over hide and heal BUT, I can see the appeal of running a very gritty, survival based game style as well. That said, have you read over all the optional rules covering resting, healing, massive damage and injuries? It seems like you might have seen some of them. These are covered in the DMG.
I think a better solution is just to change how you think of HP. Like Matt Coville said at the beginning of his "Let's Kill a PC" video (https://youtu.be/xZdS8lP-Sdo), we naturally assume HP is analogous to physical health, but as you point out, there's a lot about that that doesn't fully make sense: you can't just sleep off being stabbed through the leg, injuries don't work that way, etc.
But that's because that's a wrong assumption. Hit Points don't measure physical health directly, but rather they measure a combination of your characters physical health, willpower, and capacity for heroism. Likewise, getting "hit" and losing HP is not necessarily analogous to getting wounded. Let's say there's two swordsmen are dueling and one of them thrusts, causing the other to expend more than the usual amount of energy to avoid the attack, and maybe even sacrifices sure footing leaving them vulnerable to a fatal attack. In D&D terms, I would classify that thrust as a "hit," and that lost energy and ill-footing would be represented by a loss of HP.
In that light, healing magic and recovering HP by resting makes much more sense. The only physical wounds you're recovering from are superficial bumps and scrapes, and you recover your will to fight on during a rest, or a cleric casts a healing spell on you and their god blesses you with the strength to meet your enemy.
(I def recommend watching that video, since HP has always been kind of an 'out-there' concept that many gamers have had problems with, but the context he puts it in really straightens it out).
if you really want to do this, then use the rules from tomb of annihilation
Death saves are DC 15, and you can only stabilize with a healers kit and the Gritty realism rules are used (DMG page 267).
“I will take responsibility for what I have done. [...] If must fall, I will rise each time a better man.” ― Brandon Sanderson, Oathbringer.
The only thing this accomplishes is that the party are going to spend a lot more time recovering between periods of activity.
What I’d suggest instead, because it involves a lot less work on the part of you and your players, is to use the variant resting rules in the DMG that make a short rest 8 hours and a long rest a week. This accomplishes the same thing but does so a lot more simply. Something to note is that it also impacts the rate at which spellcasters recover spell slots, which is... fine, if you ask me.
I think it depends on your party. If they like a survival challenge type game then maybe this would be fun, but if they want to be hero’s, and you know save the world perhaps using the standard rules would be the best.
I agree the current (5e) rules for a long rest (and a short rest) healing a player strain credibility but there are a lot of things to consider.
The short answer (and I don't do this often), using the 5e rules is more fun for everyone unless the table wants to RP a long recovery.
AD&D allowed us to heal 1HD per long rest, although we didn't call it a long rest. It could take two days for a level 1 character to recover if they rolled low after the first night. So we ended up using spell slots to heal up after combat.
I respect the desire to have a more gritty method because it helps get the party to treat an encounter as a serious problem, and many times parties can steamroll a combat even if they lose half their HP. I was thinking that having the party carry and use potions of healing would at least create a 'gold suck' they'd wish to avoid. But in the name of fun, I'd be very cautious how you messed with this bit of the rules.
Good luck and have fun.
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt
I’m in a couple different groups that handle it differently and I don’t mind either one. In one, upon coming back from being unconscious or dead (say from revivify), you take 1-3 levels of exhaustion (we do d4-1). In the other, upon coming back you have to make a tough save or you are “stunned” and basically lying on the ground wondering what happened. The second is really only harsh during combat where you lose turns while the first can be really debilitating. Either way you aren’t coming back scott free. We do use normal rest rules.
The DMG offers a few healing variations you might want to look into:
https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/dmg/dungeon-masters-workshop#AdventuringOptions
Maybe also consider what style of campaign you want to run:
https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/dmg/a-world-of-your-own#PlayStyle
More Interesting Lock Picking Rules
I looked at some online notes regarding the DMG alternate rules which inspired some of my rules. I didn't want to muck with making a Long Rest a week since that will create other changes regarding spells. But, perhaps that won't be a bad thing down the road?
I didn't use the Long Rest and Short Rest buttons on the D&D Beyond character sheets during our first session just adjusting things manually. Are there settings to use the alt rules in the DMG?
Thanks folks for all of the responses. I'm going to give my 2nd version of my house rules another go during my next session and see how it goes.
Keep in mind, if you are essentially eliminating short rests, certain classes will be significantly hurt by it. Warlocks and fighters In particular have a lot of short rest abilities that are balanced around multiple short rests per day.
I didn't eliminate Short Rests at all. I meant I was doing things manually instead of hitting the Short Rest or Long Rest buttons on the character sheets in Beyond.