I don't care what the Sage Advice Compendium says about that, in this specific case, I'm not taking their advice. That's one of those general rules in D&D. Specific overrides General.
I think you mean rule zero, where RAW says it is okay for GMs to override RAW.
Specific rules overriding general rules refers to something else entirely, where a rule that is more specific in their wording (Necromancer's max HP cannot be reduced) overrides a rule that is more generally stated (Create Magen reduces max HP).
I went back and looked at the SAC. They may have changed it since last I looked, I may have been wrong. All they say now is "A flyer that lacks the hover trait can stay aloft without moving each round."
"Hover" means being able to stay stationary. Characters who can't hover, drop like rocks. I'll probably make that clear in Session Zero.
There are some odd rules about falling damage. Check the SAC if you like, I think they talk about it there.
I've been running a game with a flying character in it for several months. I've made no changes based on the fact that one of the characters can fly, and it has not actually impacted the balance of any encounters yet.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
"Flight is hard to deal with" or "flight always needs to be countered" doesn't really seem like a good excuse for banning. Lots of things need to be given consideration and counters, why is flight singled out? Fly is a 3rd level spell, wings or no wings, you're probably going to have to think about it and counter it regardless of wings, so... nothing has really changed by allowing or banning wings.
"Flight is hard to deal with" or "flight always needs to be countered" doesn't really seem like a good excuse for banning. Lots of things need to be given consideration and counters, why is flight singled out? Fly is a 3rd level spell, wings or no wings, you're probably going to have to think about it and counter it regardless of wings, so... nothing has really changed by allowing or banning wings.
Flight is singled out because it's singularly powerful. You could go more extreme and give a race Wish 1/day as a racial spell and it would be instantly banned. This is just that but less. Some racials are more powerful than others, and a Fly speed is substantially more powerful than just about any other racial you can currently get.
I've never actually had a GM ban flying races in a game for me, but I've played with flying races in the party plenty. Of the racial abilities with significant impact on the campaign, fly speeds reliably have the most.
"Flight is hard to deal with" or "flight always needs to be countered" doesn't really seem like a good excuse for banning. Lots of things need to be given consideration and counters, why is flight singled out? Fly is a 3rd level spell, wings or no wings, you're probably going to have to think about it and counter it regardless of wings, so... nothing has really changed by allowing or banning wings.
Fly is a 3rd level spell.......that requires concentration, ends after 10 minutes, costs a 3rd level spell slot, and has the potential to drop you out of the sky once you start taking damage and making concentration checks.
Racial fly speed is.....free at 1st level and has none of those restrictions/risks
"Flight is hard to deal with" or "flight always needs to be countered" doesn't really seem like a good excuse for banning. Lots of things need to be given consideration and counters, why is flight singled out? Fly is a 3rd level spell, wings or no wings, you're probably going to have to think about it and counter it regardless of wings, so... nothing has really changed by allowing or banning wings.
Fly is a 3rd level spell.......that requires concentration, ends after 10 minutes, costs a 3rd level spell slot, and has the potential to drop you out of the sky once you start taking damage and making concentration checks.
Racial fly speed is.....free at 1st level and has none of those restrictions/risks
I'm aware that fly is a spell especially since I acknowledged that in my post, but none of that changes the point. "I don't want to have to come up with counters to flight" remains a seemingly invalid excuse since chances are you're still going to have to come up with counters to flight regardless as a consequence of the fact that it isn't a particularly uncommon spell effect. If fly were an 8th level spell, or something, and exceedingly exclusive, then I could understand the aversion, but it's not.
I've never actually had a GM ban flying races in a game for me, but I've played with flying races in the party plenty. Of the racial abilities with significant impact on the campaign, fly speeds reliably have the most.
Player Characters should have a significant impact on the campaign. That's kind of the point. I'm not saying flight isn't beneficial, or strong (though its strengths can be mitigated against and countered). I simply don't think some of the commonly stated justifications for banning it are very convincing or persuasive--it isn't necessarily the boogeyman.
"Flight is hard to deal with" or "flight always needs to be countered" doesn't really seem like a good excuse for banning. Lots of things need to be given consideration and counters, why is flight singled out? Fly is a 3rd level spell, wings or no wings, you're probably going to have to think about it and counter it regardless of wings, so... nothing has really changed by allowing or banning wings.
Fly is a 3rd level spell.......that requires concentration, ends after 10 minutes, costs a 3rd level spell slot, and has the potential to drop you out of the sky once you start taking damage and making concentration checks.
Racial fly speed is.....free at 1st level and has none of those restrictions/risks
I'm aware that fly is a spell especially since I acknowledged that in my post, but none of that changes the point. "I don't want to have to come up with counters to flight" remains a seemingly invalid excuse since chances are you're still going to have to come up with counters to flight regardless as a consequence of the fact that it isn't a particularly uncommon spell effect. If fly were an 8th level spell, or something, and exceedingly exclusive, then I could understand the aversion, but it's not.
1) I never implied that you didnt know Fly was a spell. In your post you said "Fly is a 3rd level spell..." and I said "Fly is a 3rd level spell BUT (insert restrictions)"
2) For someone using the Fly spell, all you need to counter it is a single enemy pouring in even a small amount of damage to make the caster keep repeating its concentration checks. Someone with innate flying abilities does not have such a weak spot and will require more to be countered.
3) I dont think there is a single other racial ability that is as powerful (if not more powerful) than a 3rd level spell. The only things that comes close are racial casting features that let you cast 3rd level spells, but even those are locked by the ability itself until a higher level.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Three-time Judge of the Competition of the Finest Brews!Come join us in making fun, unique homebrew and voting for your favorite entries!
"Flight is hard to deal with" or "flight always needs to be countered" doesn't really seem like a good excuse for banning. Lots of things need to be given consideration and counters, why is flight singled out? Fly is a 3rd level spell, wings or no wings, you're probably going to have to think about it and counter it regardless of wings, so... nothing has really changed by allowing or banning wings.
Fly is a 3rd level spell.......that requires concentration, ends after 10 minutes, costs a 3rd level spell slot, and has the potential to drop you out of the sky once you start taking damage and making concentration checks.
Racial fly speed is.....free at 1st level and has none of those restrictions/risks
I'm aware that fly is a spell especially since I acknowledged that in my post, but none of that changes the point. "I don't want to have to come up with counters to flight" remains a seemingly invalid excuse since chances are you're still going to have to come up with counters to flight regardless as a consequence of the fact that it isn't a particularly uncommon spell effect. If fly were an 8th level spell, or something, and exceedingly exclusive, then I could understand the aversion, but it's not.
1) I never implied that you didnt know Fly was a spell. In your post you said "Fly is a 3rd level spell..." and I said "Fly is a 3rd level spell BUT (insert restrictions)"
2) For someone using the Fly spell, all you need to counter it is a single enemy pouring in even a small amount of damage to make the caster keep repeating its concentration checks. Someone with innate flying abilities does not have such a weak spot and will require more to be countered.
3) I dont think there is a single other racial ability that is as powerful (if not more powerful) than a 3rd level spell. The only things that comes close are racial casting features that let you cast 3rd level spells, but even those are locked by the ability itself until a higher level.
"Flight is hard to deal with" or "flight always needs to be countered" doesn't really seem like a good excuse for banning. Lots of things need to be given consideration and counters, why is flight singled out? Fly is a 3rd level spell, wings or no wings, you're probably going to have to think about it and counter it regardless of wings, so... nothing has really changed by allowing or banning wings.
Fly is a 3rd level spell.......that requires concentration, ends after 10 minutes, costs a 3rd level spell slot, and has the potential to drop you out of the sky once you start taking damage and making concentration checks.
Racial fly speed is.....free at 1st level and has none of those restrictions/risks
I'm aware that fly is a spell especially since I acknowledged that in my post, but none of that changes the point. "I don't want to have to come up with counters to flight" remains a seemingly invalid excuse since chances are you're still going to have to come up with counters to flight regardless as a consequence of the fact that it isn't a particularly uncommon spell effect. If fly were an 8th level spell, or something, and exceedingly exclusive, then I could understand the aversion, but it's not.
1) I never implied that you didnt know Fly was a spell. In your post you said "Fly is a 3rd level spell..." and I said "Fly is a 3rd level spell BUT (insert restrictions)"
2) For someone using the Fly spell, all you need to counter it is a single enemy pouring in even a small amount of damage to make the caster keep repeating its concentration checks. Someone with innate flying abilities does not have such a weak spot and will require more to be countered.
3) I dont think there is a single other racial ability that is as powerful (if not more powerful) than a 3rd level spell. The only things that comes close are racial casting features that let you cast 3rd level spells, but even those are locked by the ability itself until a higher level.
Spell Resistance is FAR worse than a Fly speed.
Thats fair, but full spell resistance only shows up in, like, Yuan-Ti Purebloods right? I dont think its super common as a racial ability and I think it is fairly common for DMs to ban monstrous races to begin with. IDK though
Yuan-ti Pure Bloods and Satyrs have Magic Resistance. Currently in print we have Feral Tiefling and Aarakocra that can fly so equally as common as Magic Resistance.
Yuan-ti Pure Bloods and Satyrs have Magic Resistance. Currently in print we have Feral Tiefling and Aarakocra that can fly so equally as common as Magic Resistance.
Thats a good point. I did not know about Satyrs having it and I also could have sworn there were more official races that could fly. My mistake
With that acknowledgement, I still think that both an innate fly speed and magic resistance are generally too powerful to be immediately available at all times at level 1
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Three-time Judge of the Competition of the Finest Brews!Come join us in making fun, unique homebrew and voting for your favorite entries!
Yuan-ti Pure Bloods and Satyrs have Magic Resistance. Currently in print we have Feral Tiefling and Aarakocra that can fly so equally as common as Magic Resistance.
Thats a good point. I did not know about Satyrs having it and I also could have sworn there were more official races that could fly. My mistake
With that acknowledgement, I still think that both an innate fly speed and magic resistance are generally too powerful to be immediately available at all times at level 1
I have no problem with that line of thinking. I just think Magic Resistance is worse because flight is countered by anything with range, cover or both, while Magic Resistance has no counter.
Yuan-ti Pure Bloods and Satyrs have Magic Resistance. Currently in print we have Feral Tiefling and Aarakocra that can fly so equally as common as Magic Resistance.
Thats a good point. I did not know about Satyrs having it and I also could have sworn there were more official races that could fly. My mistake
With that acknowledgement, I still think that both an innate fly speed and magic resistance are generally too powerful to be immediately available at all times at level 1
I have no problem with that line of thinking. I just think Magic Resistance is worse because flight is countered by anything with range, cover or both, while Magic Resistance has no counter.
Agreed
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Three-time Judge of the Competition of the Finest Brews!Come join us in making fun, unique homebrew and voting for your favorite entries!
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I think you mean rule zero, where RAW says it is okay for GMs to override RAW.
Specific rules overriding general rules refers to something else entirely, where a rule that is more specific in their wording (Necromancer's max HP cannot be reduced) overrides a rule that is more generally stated (Create Magen reduces max HP).
Check Licenses and Resync Entitlements: < https://www.dndbeyond.com/account/licenses >
Running the Game by Matt Colville; Introduction: < https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-YZvLUXcR8 >
D&D with High School Students by Bill Allen; Season 1 Episode 1: < https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52NJTUDokyk&t >
I went back and looked at the SAC. They may have changed it since last I looked, I may have been wrong. All they say now is "A flyer that lacks the hover trait can stay aloft without moving each round."
"Hover" means being able to stay stationary. Characters who can't hover, drop like rocks. I'll probably make that clear in Session Zero.
There are some odd rules about falling damage. Check the SAC if you like, I think they talk about it there.
<Insert clever signature here>
I've been running a game with a flying character in it for several months. I've made no changes based on the fact that one of the characters can fly, and it has not actually impacted the balance of any encounters yet.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
"Flight is hard to deal with" or "flight always needs to be countered" doesn't really seem like a good excuse for banning. Lots of things need to be given consideration and counters, why is flight singled out? Fly is a 3rd level spell, wings or no wings, you're probably going to have to think about it and counter it regardless of wings, so... nothing has really changed by allowing or banning wings.
Flight is singled out because it's singularly powerful. You could go more extreme and give a race Wish 1/day as a racial spell and it would be instantly banned. This is just that but less. Some racials are more powerful than others, and a Fly speed is substantially more powerful than just about any other racial you can currently get.
I've never actually had a GM ban flying races in a game for me, but I've played with flying races in the party plenty. Of the racial abilities with significant impact on the campaign, fly speeds reliably have the most.
Fly is a 3rd level spell.......that requires concentration, ends after 10 minutes, costs a 3rd level spell slot, and has the potential to drop you out of the sky once you start taking damage and making concentration checks.
Racial fly speed is.....free at 1st level and has none of those restrictions/risks
Three-time Judge of the Competition of the Finest Brews! Come join us in making fun, unique homebrew and voting for your favorite entries!
I'm aware that fly is a spell especially since I acknowledged that in my post, but none of that changes the point. "I don't want to have to come up with counters to flight" remains a seemingly invalid excuse since chances are you're still going to have to come up with counters to flight regardless as a consequence of the fact that it isn't a particularly uncommon spell effect. If fly were an 8th level spell, or something, and exceedingly exclusive, then I could understand the aversion, but it's not.
Player Characters should have a significant impact on the campaign. That's kind of the point. I'm not saying flight isn't beneficial, or strong (though its strengths can be mitigated against and countered). I simply don't think some of the commonly stated justifications for banning it are very convincing or persuasive--it isn't necessarily the boogeyman.
1) I never implied that you didnt know Fly was a spell. In your post you said "Fly is a 3rd level spell..." and I said "Fly is a 3rd level spell BUT (insert restrictions)"
2) For someone using the Fly spell, all you need to counter it is a single enemy pouring in even a small amount of damage to make the caster keep repeating its concentration checks. Someone with innate flying abilities does not have such a weak spot and will require more to be countered.
3) I dont think there is a single other racial ability that is as powerful (if not more powerful) than a 3rd level spell. The only things that comes close are racial casting features that let you cast 3rd level spells, but even those are locked by the ability itself until a higher level.
Three-time Judge of the Competition of the Finest Brews! Come join us in making fun, unique homebrew and voting for your favorite entries!
Magic Resistance is FAR worse than a Fly speed.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
Thats fair, but full spell resistance only shows up in, like, Yuan-Ti Purebloods right? I dont think its super common as a racial ability and I think it is fairly common for DMs to ban monstrous races to begin with. IDK though
Three-time Judge of the Competition of the Finest Brews! Come join us in making fun, unique homebrew and voting for your favorite entries!
Yuan-ti Pure Bloods and Satyrs have Magic Resistance. Currently in print we have Feral Tiefling and Aarakocra that can fly so equally as common as Magic Resistance.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
Thats a good point. I did not know about Satyrs having it and I also could have sworn there were more official races that could fly. My mistake
With that acknowledgement, I still think that both an innate fly speed and magic resistance are generally too powerful to be immediately available at all times at level 1
Three-time Judge of the Competition of the Finest Brews! Come join us in making fun, unique homebrew and voting for your favorite entries!
I have no problem with that line of thinking. I just think Magic Resistance is worse because flight is countered by anything with range, cover or both, while Magic Resistance has no counter.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
Agreed
Three-time Judge of the Competition of the Finest Brews! Come join us in making fun, unique homebrew and voting for your favorite entries!