Alright, thanks for the answer; I think I've got what I need for the character now. Like I said, melee isn't going to be the primary focus, but it's still going to be a fallback option, just in case.
Glad to see all you guys being patient with me on this design; it's a design that both I, myself, and quite a few other people have been asking for, for a while now, and my indecisiveness and OCD is not helping. I don't have any D&D books right now; they're all at my friend's house, and I can't get them thanks to this whole Covid outbreak thing, so I really do appreciate the patience.
I'm going to leave the question open, in case anyone wants to post anything else, like suggestions or even more questions. Feel free to ask; this board is for everybody.
If you are looking for a smaller sorcerer with wings you could try kobold with Advanced Racial Feats by some guy named Adam Bradford. They are available in the homebrew section on this site by searching for BadEye. Urd Wings gives you the winged kobold. Then you can fly at level 4.
Urd Wings Prerequisite: Kobold You manifest leathery wings, transforming into an urd. You gain the following benefits: • Increase your Dexterity score by 1, to a max-imum of 20. • You gain a flying speed of 30 feet. To use this speed, you can't be wearing medium or heavy armor.
If you want Constitution saves and marital weapons to start, 2 levels of fighter would be the way to go. After that you could go full sorcerer. This would give you 10 + your con mod starting HP and 6 + your con mod for the second level. The fighting style would probably be most useful as defense fighting style since it would with while you were casting and gives a +1 to AC while wearing armor. Going dueling fighting style would likely be the other option, giving you a +2 to damage while wielding a 1 hand weapon in one hand and no weapon in the other. This gives something like a longsword the same average damage as a d12 (4.5+2=6.5, which is the same as a d12. The max damage and criticals are better on the d12 though.) This would give you nice melee damage while allowing you to wield a shield to give you a +2 AC. I would probably start fighter, then grab at least a level of sorcerer before grabbing the second level to establish your identity (same if you went Paladin). Action Surge gives you an extra action once per rest.
You would have to start fighter or Paladin to get Heavy Armor unless you wanted to go Cleric instead (a handful of cleric subclasses get heavy armor, and they are the only way to multiclass into heavy armor, since fighter and Paladin stop at medium armor for a multiclass.
Assuming that Cleric is off the table (the most thematic subclasses don't give heavy armor, unless you think forge counts), that would leave Paladin. Your HP would be the same. At level one, you get Lay on Hands which is more versatile than Second Wind as a healing option. Divine sense isn't particularly on point thematically. The fighting style comes at level two (same suggestions, though the options aren't all the same between the two classes. Divine Smite would give you more mmph while doing melee and you'd gain spellcasting including the entire first level catalog of Paladin spells (though you'd have to prepare a certain number per day). This would give you some more flexibility with your number of spells, since sorcerer is weak that way. There are some spells that would work thematically and your spell slot progression won't be as far behind. Instead of Strength and Constitution saves, you'd have Wisdom and Charisma. Strength will be more useful than Charisma more frequently, while Con and Wis saves are both useful. If you use a lot of concentration spells, con saves will probably win out in usefulness.
Sorcerer would start out with 6 + con mod HP while each subsequent level gives 4 + con mod. Draconic Bloodline gives an additional HP per sorcerer level. You start with Con saves and Charisma saves. I won't talk about the other aspects, since this represents the majority of your levels.
Warlock starts with 8 + con mod HP. If you got other levels or multiclassed in, you'd get 5 + con mod. Warlocks get Wisdom and Charisma like Paladins (fighter is the only one that doesn't get charisma saves). I'm only recommending 1 level to get medium armor and shield proficiency, martial weapon proficiency, some extra spells and cantrips, Hexblade's curse (could be flavored as hawking some nasty fire on the target) and hex warrior which lets you add your charisma modifier to your melee attacks. You'd also gain an extra 1st level slot that would refresh on a short rest. Medium armor with a 14 dexterity would give similar AC to heavy armor (Draconic Bloodline gives 13 + Dexterity modifier, Scale mail gives 14 + dex (max 2) while half plate gives 15 + Dex (max 2). Heavy armors give between 16 and 18, but requires 13 or 15 strength. Your starting AC without a shield will most likely either be 15 or 16 regardless.) Your spell slot progression will be the same as Paladin 2 but you'll get the one extra 1st and some extra cantrips. Your melee attacks as effective with this build as with fighter or paladin with a 16 strength while not requiring 16 strength. Keeping in mind that 10 is considered an average commoner and your +2 from Dragonborn, you could easily have enough strength to cover your optics needs while still keeping your dex at 14 for AC purposes and initiative bonus, con at 13 and ready to boost, charisma at 16 (15+1 from Dragonborn, and giving you the flexibility to not dump wisdom. A stat line of 12, 14, 13, 8, 12, 16 would cover all your AC needs, give you the flexibility to max your charisma and still get some feats, and have you be strong enough to not feel weak. To be that effective in melee and casting otherwise, you could go 16, 10, 13, 8, 12, 16 but your melee will suffer when you max your charisma. You won't get flight until sorcerer 14, which means at least 15 with any multiclass and 16 if you get both fighter/ Paladin levels early.
A Variant Tiefling Draconic Bloodline Sorcerer offers you Scales, Wings, Tail and fire magic at level 1.
If you want to use melee weapons, a single level of Hexblade Warlock gives you a pact weapon that scales off Charisma, Shield proficiency and Medium Armor Proficiency and arguably one of the most iconic cantrips Eldritch Blast.
If you want to go unarmed you will probably have to go with Monk multiclass. Or you could try to get Primal Savagery (e.g. via Magic Initiate)
You know, when I started this topic, I didn't expect it to get this much attention. I'm glad to see I was wrong.
Alright, now on the topic of characters:
Concerning both the Kobold and Tiefling DB Sorcerer ideas; I like them both, but they aren't quite what I was thinking. A kobold is a bit too short for the character design that I was wanting (Charizards are bigger than a human), and a Tiefling seems more inclined to being a rogue-like class than a fighter; they also looked a bit... too human for a dragon design. That, and I really wanted to make a Dragonborn; they're probably my favorite race in D&D, and I find them to be more appealing to me than either of the other two. That's not to say that I don't like them, far from it; it's just that they aren't what I was looking for.
Concerning the "wings" debacle; while getting them early might lead to some fun encounters, getting them later feels more... rewarding, so to speak. They feel like something I earned, rather than just being given to me at character creation. Also, concerning Charizard; Dragonborn Sorcerer progression does kinda tie into the Pokemon franchise itself; they start of in their pre-evolution (Charmander and Charmeleon) without wings, and gain them upon evolving into their third stage (Charizard); similarly, Dragonborn Sorcerers spend their first two-thirds of their levels without wings, before getting them in the last third. It's rather fitting, I think.
Now, as for dipping into Fighter; I like the idea and I most certainly going to be taking it; it gives a good fallback option in case anything goes south, and in my experience, everything WILL go south. I'm probably going to take your suggestion for classes; take one level in Defense Fighter, take one in Sorcerer, take the second in Fighter, then dump the rest in Sorcerer for the rest of the game.
However, I'm looking for some tips on the armor; heard that heavy armor gives penalties to magic attacks, but I'm worried that I might not have enough defense. Again, I don't have the books, cause my friend is bunkered down at his house thanks to the Covid ordeal, so I can't check.
Also, concerning weaponry; this is the first time I've crossed a melee and a spell-caster class together, and I was a bit unclear on the mechanics. Been hearing on some other sites that I would have to swap out my focus before I could pull out a melee weapon; is that true, and couldn't I just dual-wield them if they are small enough (i.e., focus in one hand, melee in the other)?
Also been looking for suggestions in weapon class; heard a couple of people recommending the Greatsword class, but I'm not sure that would work well with a Sorcerer, even one with higher-than-average strength. Any suggestions?
Heavy armor has no effect on spellcasting. The only armor restrictions that 5E has is that you can't cast spells while wearing armor you're not proficient with. If the first level the character takes is fighter before multiclassing, that's not going to affect them since they'll already have proficiency in all armor types.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Thanks for the clarification on spellcasting in heavy armor.
What about weapons; would I be able to dual-wield a weapon in one-hand and a focus in the other, or would I have to swap them out to use the other?
I think as long as you have one hand free for focus or somatic components you are fine. A one handed weapon is afaik no problem RAW, it only gets tricky if you use a two handed weapon, 1H and shield or dual wield two weapons. Even then, Warcaster and a Ruby of the Warmage solve the problems.
Alright, thanks for the reply. I think I've got everything I need so far, but if anyone wants to post anything else here, like suggestions, tips, or even stats, go ahead; I'm leaving this topic open.
Thanks for all of you guys' assistance. It means more than you think.
Thanks for the clarification on spellcasting in heavy armor.
What about weapons; would I be able to dual-wield a weapon in one-hand and a focus in the other, or would I have to swap them out to use the other?
First, much of this you will want to talk to your DM to find out how they will work specifically in your game.
Two handed weapon- you would have to stow your arcane focus to wield it. However, the mechanics are such that it's not much of an issue, since you can still hold your weapon in one hand while casting.
1h weapon- no conflict unless your DM is a stickler for somatic no material component rules. There are a few that have the versatile trait, meaning you can use them one handed or two handed. Probably best if you are worried about getting stuck not being able to make a melee attack. Can be paired with a shield for more defense.
Dual wielding weapons- not ideal for your build unless one has a [magicitem]Ruby of the Warmage[/ magicitem] and still might be troublesome. However, this doesn't sound like it's ideal for your playstyle.
If you had a shield, then you would have to choose between weapon and arcane focus, unless you were using a staff and your DM lets you use it as a weapon (and won't decide to make it break). If the component rules requiring a free hand for somatic only spells is being observed, you would have to put either of them away to cast them.
Alright, thanks for the answer; I think I've got what I need for the character now. Like I said, melee isn't going to be the primary focus, but it's still going to be a fallback option, just in case.
Glad to see all you guys being patient with me on this design; it's a design that both I, myself, and quite a few other people have been asking for, for a while now, and my indecisiveness and OCD is not helping. I don't have any D&D books right now; they're all at my friend's house, and I can't get them thanks to this whole Covid outbreak thing, so I really do appreciate the patience.
I'm going to leave the question open, in case anyone wants to post anything else, like suggestions or even more questions. Feel free to ask; this board is for everybody.
If you are looking for a smaller sorcerer with wings you could try kobold with Advanced Racial Feats by some guy named Adam Bradford. They are available in the homebrew section on this site by searching for BadEye. Urd Wings gives you the winged kobold. Then you can fly at level 4.
Urd Wings
Prerequisite: Kobold
You manifest leathery wings, transforming into an urd. You gain the following benefits:
• Increase your Dexterity score by 1, to a max-imum of 20.
• You gain a flying speed of 30 feet. To use this speed, you can't be wearing medium or heavy armor.
If you want Constitution saves and marital weapons to start, 2 levels of fighter would be the way to go. After that you could go full sorcerer. This would give you 10 + your con mod starting HP and 6 + your con mod for the second level. The fighting style would probably be most useful as defense fighting style since it would with while you were casting and gives a +1 to AC while wearing armor. Going dueling fighting style would likely be the other option, giving you a +2 to damage while wielding a 1 hand weapon in one hand and no weapon in the other. This gives something like a longsword the same average damage as a d12 (4.5+2=6.5, which is the same as a d12. The max damage and criticals are better on the d12 though.) This would give you nice melee damage while allowing you to wield a shield to give you a +2 AC. I would probably start fighter, then grab at least a level of sorcerer before grabbing the second level to establish your identity (same if you went Paladin). Action Surge gives you an extra action once per rest.
You would have to start fighter or Paladin to get Heavy Armor unless you wanted to go Cleric instead (a handful of cleric subclasses get heavy armor, and they are the only way to multiclass into heavy armor, since fighter and Paladin stop at medium armor for a multiclass.
Assuming that Cleric is off the table (the most thematic subclasses don't give heavy armor, unless you think forge counts), that would leave Paladin. Your HP would be the same. At level one, you get Lay on Hands which is more versatile than Second Wind as a healing option. Divine sense isn't particularly on point thematically. The fighting style comes at level two (same suggestions, though the options aren't all the same between the two classes. Divine Smite would give you more mmph while doing melee and you'd gain spellcasting including the entire first level catalog of Paladin spells (though you'd have to prepare a certain number per day). This would give you some more flexibility with your number of spells, since sorcerer is weak that way. There are some spells that would work thematically and your spell slot progression won't be as far behind. Instead of Strength and Constitution saves, you'd have Wisdom and Charisma. Strength will be more useful than Charisma more frequently, while Con and Wis saves are both useful. If you use a lot of concentration spells, con saves will probably win out in usefulness.
Sorcerer would start out with 6 + con mod HP while each subsequent level gives 4 + con mod. Draconic Bloodline gives an additional HP per sorcerer level. You start with Con saves and Charisma saves. I won't talk about the other aspects, since this represents the majority of your levels.
Warlock starts with 8 + con mod HP. If you got other levels or multiclassed in, you'd get 5 + con mod. Warlocks get Wisdom and Charisma like Paladins (fighter is the only one that doesn't get charisma saves). I'm only recommending 1 level to get medium armor and shield proficiency, martial weapon proficiency, some extra spells and cantrips, Hexblade's curse (could be flavored as hawking some nasty fire on the target) and hex warrior which lets you add your charisma modifier to your melee attacks. You'd also gain an extra 1st level slot that would refresh on a short rest. Medium armor with a 14 dexterity would give similar AC to heavy armor (Draconic Bloodline gives 13 + Dexterity modifier, Scale mail gives 14 + dex (max 2) while half plate gives 15 + Dex (max 2). Heavy armors give between 16 and 18, but requires 13 or 15 strength. Your starting AC without a shield will most likely either be 15 or 16 regardless.) Your spell slot progression will be the same as Paladin 2 but you'll get the one extra 1st and some extra cantrips. Your melee attacks as effective with this build as with fighter or paladin with a 16 strength while not requiring 16 strength. Keeping in mind that 10 is considered an average commoner and your +2 from Dragonborn, you could easily have enough strength to cover your optics needs while still keeping your dex at 14 for AC purposes and initiative bonus, con at 13 and ready to boost, charisma at 16 (15+1 from Dragonborn, and giving you the flexibility to not dump wisdom. A stat line of 12, 14, 13, 8, 12, 16 would cover all your AC needs, give you the flexibility to max your charisma and still get some feats, and have you be strong enough to not feel weak. To be that effective in melee and casting otherwise, you could go 16, 10, 13, 8, 12, 16 but your melee will suffer when you max your charisma. You won't get flight until sorcerer 14, which means at least 15 with any multiclass and 16 if you get both fighter/ Paladin levels early.
A Variant Tiefling Draconic Bloodline Sorcerer offers you Scales, Wings, Tail and fire magic at level 1.
If you want to use melee weapons, a single level of Hexblade Warlock gives you a pact weapon that scales off Charisma, Shield proficiency and Medium Armor Proficiency and arguably one of the most iconic cantrips Eldritch Blast.
If you want to go unarmed you will probably have to go with Monk multiclass. Or you could try to get Primal Savagery (e.g. via Magic Initiate)
You know, when I started this topic, I didn't expect it to get this much attention. I'm glad to see I was wrong.
Alright, now on the topic of characters:
Concerning both the Kobold and Tiefling DB Sorcerer ideas; I like them both, but they aren't quite what I was thinking. A kobold is a bit too short for the character design that I was wanting (Charizards are bigger than a human), and a Tiefling seems more inclined to being a rogue-like class than a fighter; they also looked a bit... too human for a dragon design. That, and I really wanted to make a Dragonborn; they're probably my favorite race in D&D, and I find them to be more appealing to me than either of the other two. That's not to say that I don't like them, far from it; it's just that they aren't what I was looking for.
Concerning the "wings" debacle; while getting them early might lead to some fun encounters, getting them later feels more... rewarding, so to speak. They feel like something I earned, rather than just being given to me at character creation. Also, concerning Charizard; Dragonborn Sorcerer progression does kinda tie into the Pokemon franchise itself; they start of in their pre-evolution (Charmander and Charmeleon) without wings, and gain them upon evolving into their third stage (Charizard); similarly, Dragonborn Sorcerers spend their first two-thirds of their levels without wings, before getting them in the last third. It's rather fitting, I think.
Now, as for dipping into Fighter; I like the idea and I most certainly going to be taking it; it gives a good fallback option in case anything goes south, and in my experience, everything WILL go south. I'm probably going to take your suggestion for classes; take one level in Defense Fighter, take one in Sorcerer, take the second in Fighter, then dump the rest in Sorcerer for the rest of the game.
However, I'm looking for some tips on the armor; heard that heavy armor gives penalties to magic attacks, but I'm worried that I might not have enough defense. Again, I don't have the books, cause my friend is bunkered down at his house thanks to the Covid ordeal, so I can't check.
Also, concerning weaponry; this is the first time I've crossed a melee and a spell-caster class together, and I was a bit unclear on the mechanics. Been hearing on some other sites that I would have to swap out my focus before I could pull out a melee weapon; is that true, and couldn't I just dual-wield them if they are small enough (i.e., focus in one hand, melee in the other)?
Also been looking for suggestions in weapon class; heard a couple of people recommending the Greatsword class, but I'm not sure that would work well with a Sorcerer, even one with higher-than-average strength. Any suggestions?
Heavy armor has no effect on spellcasting. The only armor restrictions that 5E has is that you can't cast spells while wearing armor you're not proficient with. If the first level the character takes is fighter before multiclassing, that's not going to affect them since they'll already have proficiency in all armor types.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Thanks for the clarification on spellcasting in heavy armor.
What about weapons; would I be able to dual-wield a weapon in one-hand and a focus in the other, or would I have to swap them out to use the other?
I think as long as you have one hand free for focus or somatic components you are fine. A one handed weapon is afaik no problem RAW, it only gets tricky if you use a two handed weapon, 1H and shield or dual wield two weapons. Even then, Warcaster and a Ruby of the Warmage solve the problems.
Alright, thanks for the reply. I think I've got everything I need so far, but if anyone wants to post anything else here, like suggestions, tips, or even stats, go ahead; I'm leaving this topic open.
Thanks for all of you guys' assistance. It means more than you think.
First, much of this you will want to talk to your DM to find out how they will work specifically in your game.
Two handed weapon- you would have to stow your arcane focus to wield it. However, the mechanics are such that it's not much of an issue, since you can still hold your weapon in one hand while casting.
1h weapon- no conflict unless your DM is a stickler for somatic no material component rules. There are a few that have the versatile trait, meaning you can use them one handed or two handed. Probably best if you are worried about getting stuck not being able to make a melee attack. Can be paired with a shield for more defense.
Dual wielding weapons- not ideal for your build unless one has a [magicitem]Ruby of the Warmage[/ magicitem] and still might be troublesome. However, this doesn't sound like it's ideal for your playstyle.
If you had a shield, then you would have to choose between weapon and arcane focus, unless you were using a staff and your DM lets you use it as a weapon (and won't decide to make it break). If the component rules requiring a free hand for somatic only spells is being observed, you would have to put either of them away to cast them.
Edit: accidentally hit post, finished the post.
I'll keep that in mind, thanks.