Most of my table saw Practiced Expert and were amazed the feat made it into a UA document. We all figured it was so perfect it couldn't be allowed to exist, that surely Wizards would take it away because it's straight-up Ohh Pee even if it felt (to us, anyways) like an absolutely necessary Universal Hole Plugger feat.
At least half of the opinions I saw on Practiced Expert were "why is this even a thing? Nobody'll take this, it's just a janky Skilled with a half-ASI attached. Nobody cares about skills."
MUHFUGGER, I CARE DX. I need Practiced Expert the way a Coke addict needs his next bottle of soda! And 5e in general needs at least ONE half-ASI which can be used to fill in any missing half-step of a modifier no matter what else the character is doing. Resilient doesn't do it - if you already have the save proficiency you need the half-ASI for (the way many an artificer looking for a half-boost of Intelligence might), Resilient sucks. The system needs Practiced Expert, and if you're the sort of jobless murderhobo who's never rolled an ability check that didn't end in dealing damage in your life you can just suck it up and deal.
The Skill Feats UA was released before DDB had the ability to implement UA for playtest. They had to spend a year after they unveiled the tool basically fist-fighting Wizards for permission to do UA.
Generally I'd say that if one is burning an entire ASI selection to focus hard on a given skill, that skill should yield Expertise. As it stands, if you don't have the skill previously you only gain base proficiency, which feels odd for the Feated Master of a skill. Most players aren't going to take a skill feat for an entirely new skill out of the blue - they're taking the feat for a skill they built into the identity of their character from the start, which the feats fortunately do handle.
Personally, I never saw most of these as being 'weak'. It's just the same issue any non-fighty UA always runs into - for far too many players, if they can't use it to reduce a monster's HP or keep their own HP from being reduced, they don't care about it. Deeply frustrating for those of us who're looking for more out of our D&D than the Weekly War Crimes Jamboree X_X
i am annoyed that the new gourmand feat does not offer tool expertise like the old one used to, but hey its fine if i am going to play an mark of hospitality artificer who is good at cooking
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i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
Already have Linguist. Heh, took it as my freebie starting feat in Grave of Saints - everybody gets a single noncombat feat to start with, to avoid Variant Human abuse. Poor Star ended up with 19 Intelligence regardless, so I needs me another one. Observant is always good...but the girl has 6 Wisdom and I have instructed my DM that she basically forfeits any passive Perception or Insight check, so...Observant kinna off the table. Hueh.
Personally I'm a big fan of Linguist. Some campaigns just assume everything is always Common forever, but that's just not any fun. Star is proficient in six different languages covering most of the major spoken tongues of the influential nations of Tursk, and she's created a private cipher specifically for use between herself and her sister using the codemaker function of Linguist. Really enjoy that feat. Just...y'know...need another one.
A few of the skill feats seem underpowered, but plenty are good. Looking just at the secondary effects (every one of them offers an ASI and expertise)
Acrobat: I generally allow making an acrobatics check as part of movement to ignore specific hazards (DC varies), making this benefit nonexistent, but it's a pretty weak benefit even without that sort of rule, as multiple classes have options to just use a bonus action to dash, which is always better than this.
Animal Handler: does this allow a beastmaster ranger to tell his pet to attack as a bonus action? What about Charm Animal?
Arcanist: those are decently useful spells.
Brawny: if you're using the optional encumbrance rules (where you slow down at load > 5x Str) this is super useful. Otherwise not so interesting.
Diplomat: that charm ability might be broken.
Empathic: spending an action to get advantage is usually not a good use of an action, and the fact that it requires a skill check makes it even worse.
Historian: that's a solid benefit, if specialized.
Investigator: most combat-relevant search checks are perception, not investigation, so not as good as if it were a perception feat.
Medic: this should probably be part of the Medicine skill by default.
Menacing: it should be against the target' Wisdom save. I'd be temped to use the same stat as you'd use to make an attack, in which case this is decent for any class with multiple attacks.
Naturalist: those are decently useful spells.
Perceptive: can we just delete Observant and replace it with this?
Performer: this should probably be part of the Performance skill by default.
Quick-Fingered: it's basically a weaker version of the Thief 'fast hands' ability. I would probably delete the restrictions on what you can do with it.
Silver-Tongued: decent if you have multiple attacks. Rogues don't.
Stealthy: would be more desirable if the vision and stealth rules weren't so horrible.
Survivalist: a decently useful spell. Should probably get a cantrip or a second spell (Snare would fit).
A few of the skill feats seem underpowered, but plenty are good. Looking just at the secondary effects (every one of them offers an ASI and expertise)
Acrobat: I generally allow making an acrobatics check as part of movement to ignore specific hazards (DC varies), making this benefit nonexistent, but it's a pretty weak benefit even without that sort of rule, as multiple classes have options to just use a bonus action to dash, which is always better than this.
Animal Handler: does this allow a beastmaster ranger to tell his pet to attack as a bonus action? What about Charm Animal?
Arcanist: those are decently useful spells.
Brawny: if you're using the optional encumbrance rules (where you slow down at load > 5x Str) this is super useful. Otherwise not so interesting.
Diplomat: that charm ability might be broken.
Empathic: spending an action to get advantage is usually not a good use of an action, and the fact that it requires a skill check makes it even worse.
Historian: that's a solid benefit, if specialized.
Investigator: most combat-relevant search checks are perception, not investigation, so not as good as if it were a perception feat.
Medic: this should probably be part of the Medicine skill by default.
Menacing: it should be against the target' Wisdom save. I'd be temped to use the same stat as you'd use to make an attack, in which case this is decent for any class with multiple attacks.
Naturalist: those are decently useful spells.
Perceptive: can we just delete Observant and replace it with this?
Performer: this should probably be part of the Performance skill by default.
Quick-Fingered: it's basically a weaker version of the Thief 'fast hands' ability. I would probably delete the restrictions on what you can do with it.
Silver-Tongued: decent if you have multiple attacks. Rogues don't.
Stealthy: would be more desirable if the vision and stealth rules weren't so horrible.
Survivalist: a decently useful spell. Should probably get a cantrip or a second spell (Snare would fit).
Theologian: decently useful spells.
This list is fairly spot on with my opinions of the Feats.
The Animal Handling feat seems to give the target beast no saving throw. Does this allow someone with this feat to command someone elses' pet? How about commanding a paladin's summoned horse? It has to be a friendly beast and not following anyone else's orders, but does that mean 'generally answering to someone else' or 'following a specific order at that time?' There seems no limit on using this in a way hostile to the target beast. It might consider you a friend, but that does not mean the user thinks of it as a friend. What happens with orders that could be considered to contradict friendship?
I assume the animal handling feat doesn't let you do anything that the animal handling skill doesn't permit, you're just doing it as a bonus action, but the animal handling skill is unclear enough that this doesn't really help.
Most of my table saw Practiced Expert and were amazed the feat made it into a UA document. We all figured it was so perfect it couldn't be allowed to exist, that surely Wizards would take it away because it's straight-up Ohh Pee even if it felt (to us, anyways) like an absolutely necessary Universal Hole Plugger feat.
At least half of the opinions I saw on Practiced Expert were "why is this even a thing? Nobody'll take this, it's just a janky Skilled with a half-ASI attached. Nobody cares about skills."
MUHFUGGER, I CARE DX. I need Practiced Expert the way a Coke addict needs his next bottle of soda! And 5e in general needs at least ONE half-ASI which can be used to fill in any missing half-step of a modifier no matter what else the character is doing. Resilient doesn't do it - if you already have the save proficiency you need the half-ASI for (the way many an artificer looking for a half-boost of Intelligence might), Resilient sucks. The system needs Practiced Expert, and if you're the sort of jobless murderhobo who's never rolled an ability check that didn't end in dealing damage in your life you can just suck it up and deal.
Nyah.
Resilient does not suck. Your philosophy of "I want everything, and I want it now" permeates your view. I think it is pretty much mandatory that my Rogue get Proficiency in Constitution, so I plan my char and allocated ability points from the beginning so Con is an odd number to start. But that requires discipline, and making tradeoffs, when I build the char. You have made it clear that you don't believe in that.
Did you read her post? “If you already have the save proficiency you need the half-ASI for..., Resilient sucks.” If your rogue needs proficiency in CON saves, then this obviously doesn’t apply to your situation.
The rest of your comment is just a bizarre personal attack that doesn’t follow from anything she’s said anywhere else, so I really don’t know what to make of it.
Most of my table saw Practiced Expert and were amazed the feat made it into a UA document. We all figured it was so perfect it couldn't be allowed to exist, that surely Wizards would take it away because it's straight-up Ohh Pee even if it felt (to us, anyways) like an absolutely necessary Universal Hole Plugger feat.
At least half of the opinions I saw on Practiced Expert were "why is this even a thing? Nobody'll take this, it's just a janky Skilled with a half-ASI attached. Nobody cares about skills."
MUHFUGGER, I CARE DX. I need Practiced Expert the way a Coke addict needs his next bottle of soda! And 5e in general needs at least ONE half-ASI which can be used to fill in any missing half-step of a modifier no matter what else the character is doing. Resilient doesn't do it - if you already have the save proficiency you need the half-ASI for (the way many an artificer looking for a half-boost of Intelligence might), Resilient sucks. The system needs Practiced Expert, and if you're the sort of jobless murderhobo who's never rolled an ability check that didn't end in dealing damage in your life you can just suck it up and deal.
Nyah.
Resilient does not suck. Your philosophy of "I want everything, and I want it now" permeates your view. I think it is pretty much mandatory that my Rogue get Proficiency in Constitution, so I plan my char and allocated ability points from the beginning so Con is an odd number to start. But that requires discipline, and making tradeoffs, when I build the char. You have made it clear that you don't believe in that.
This is what I plan to do with my Druid when we hit level 8(or War Caster). I haven’t taken the ASI yet with her and I am loving her play so far. A lot of my stats are odd it seems but that is what I rolled.
However what is with that personal attack? Maybe the character doesn’t need the save as they already have the save which would make resilient subpar.
Personally I love Linguist. In my campaign there are languages that simply do not translate via magic (Thieves' Cant being one) and Linguist is a way to learn such languages... or even write new ones.
note: thieves can't is not a language, and two characters speaking thieves can't cannot communicate
A few of the skill feats seem underpowered, but plenty are good. Looking just at the secondary effects (every one of them offers an ASI and expertise)
Acrobat: I generally allow making an acrobatics check as part of movement to ignore specific hazards (DC varies), making this benefit nonexistent, but it's a pretty weak benefit even without that sort of rule, as multiple classes have options to just use a bonus action to dash, which is always better than this.
Animal Handler: does this allow a beastmaster ranger to tell his pet to attack as a bonus action? What about Charm Animal?
Arcanist: those are decently useful spells.
Brawny: if you're using the optional encumbrance rules (where you slow down at load > 5x Str) this is super useful. Otherwise not so interesting.
Diplomat: that charm ability might be broken.
Empathic: spending an action to get advantage is usually not a good use of an action, and the fact that it requires a skill check makes it even worse.
Historian: that's a solid benefit, if specialized.
Investigator: most combat-relevant search checks are perception, not investigation, so not as good as if it were a perception feat.
Medic: this should probably be part of the Medicine skill by default.
Menacing: it should be against the target' Wisdom save. I'd be temped to use the same stat as you'd use to make an attack, in which case this is decent for any class with multiple attacks.
Naturalist: those are decently useful spells.
Perceptive: can we just delete Observant and replace it with this?
Performer: this should probably be part of the Performance skill by default.
Quick-Fingered: it's basically a weaker version of the Thief 'fast hands' ability. I would probably delete the restrictions on what you can do with it.
Silver-Tongued: decent if you have multiple attacks. Rogues don't.
Stealthy: would be more desirable if the vision and stealth rules weren't so horrible.
Survivalist: a decently useful spell. Should probably get a cantrip or a second spell (Snare would fit).
Theologian: decently useful spells.
note about arcanist: i am not shure but i think that if you are an bard or an sorcerer who did not already know detect magic, you could absolutely use spell slots to cast the spell by the same reasoning as magic initiate, https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/sac/sage-advice-compendium#Feats and observant is still better than perceptive
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i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
I love the Half ASI Feats. It allows you to customize your character and still bump Stats. Some Feats are way too good to pass up if you are concerned with combat (Sharp Shooter/Great Weapon Master/Warcaster) but there are a number of Feats that don't get taken as often as it is hard to sacrifice "viability" for "flavor" (not an issue for me as I will always take what makes sense from an RP perspective over being a munchkin). I think the Half ASI helps alleviate that problem a little and therefore we need more of them.
During your rogue training you learned thieves’ cant, a secret mix of dialect, jargon, and code that allows you to hide messages in seemingly normal conversation. Only another creature that knows thieves’ cant understands such messages. It takes four times longer to convey such a message than it does to speak the same idea plainly.
In addition, you understand a set of secret signs and symbols used to convey short, simple messages, such as whether an area is dangerous or the territory of a thieves’ guild, whether loot is nearby, or whether the people in an area are easy marks or will provide a safe house for thieves on the run.
It very clearly allows to people with Theives' Cant to communicate, it just takes 4 times longer.
note about arcanist: i am not shure but i think that if you are an bard or an sorcerer who did not already know detect magic, you could absolutely use spell slots to cast the spell by the same reasoning as magic initiate, https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/sac/sage-advice-compendium#Feats and observant is still better than perceptive
For clarity, I was proposing replacing observant because it's an obnoxious feat that shouldn't exist (passive checks in general are a mess).
Did you read her post? “If you already have the save proficiency you need the half-ASI for..., Resilient sucks.” If your rogue needs proficiency in CON saves, then this obviously doesn’t apply to your situation.
The rest of your comment is just a bizarre personal attack that doesn’t follow from anything she’s said anywhere else, so I really don’t know what to make of it.
Thanks, Saga. Vince is upset with me from the Species thread, wherein we hold opposite viewpoints and have not been as polite as we might could've been while working through those viewpoints.
To clarify: Resilient is excellent if you need the save your Resilient-ing for, i.e. picking up Constitution save proficiency on one's rogue. If you already have that save i.e. if you're an artificer with proficiency in Intelligence saves that needs one point of Intelligence, then Resilient is strictly worse than a regular ASI.
Practiced Expert is a feat which is as close to universally applicable as a feat is likely to get, enabling any player who doesn't have it to plug a one-point hole in their stats almost entirely regardless of what else they already have and still pick up some very useful bonus proficiencies. I think it's a puzzle piece nobody know how much they needed until we got it and realized it's never been there before.
Please don't be deliberately obtuse, Kotath. If, as is currently the case with my artificer, one has a single odd score and five even ones, then an Attribute Improvement is only half as effective as it should be until and unless you find a proper half-feat to fill the hole.
Yes, I could take a standard ASI to fill my Intelligence up to 20 and nudge Dex to 15, in preparation for taking Resilient: Dex in four more levels. Considering the fact that I have no idea if the campaign will continue for four more levels and that the point of Dex from that ASI is completely and utterly worthless until the stat is raised to 16 with a subsequent half-ASI, it's not particularly rewarding to take an ASI that only halfway works.
Which you were fully aware of when you posted. If ability scores were relevant more than once every thousand years, then having odd scores waiting on a stat bump would not be so vexing. But the score is essentially worthless, especially in cases such as Dexterity where literally no feature or mechanic in the entire game references the score rather than the modifier, and as such a universally applicable way of filling in the important half of a missing modifier would be helpful.
Which you were fully aware of when you posted. If ability scores were relevant more than once every thousand years, then having odd scores waiting on a stat bump would not be so vexing. But the score is essentially worthless, especially in cases such as Dexterity where literally no feature or mechanic in the entire game references the score rather than the modifier, and as such a universally applicable way of filling in the important half of a missing modifier would be helpful.
Ponder rounding up on your ability scores for certain purposes (damage bonus on attacks using the trait, for example).
Which you were fully aware of when you posted. If ability scores were relevant more than once every thousand years, then having odd scores waiting on a stat bump would not be so vexing. But the score is essentially worthless, especially in cases such as Dexterity where literally no feature or mechanic in the entire game references the score rather than the modifier, and as such a universally applicable way of filling in the important half of a missing modifier would be helpful.
Ponder rounding up on your ability scores for certain purposes (damage bonus on attacks using the trait, for example).
Hm. That's an interesting idea, good notion for making odd scores less painful. I still wish 5e wasn't designed quite this poorly, but Wizards' hands were tied. And frankly they wouldn't have cared to design something sensible anyways. Still, I kinda like this notion. May have a peeksypoo through the PHB at some point and see where one might benefit from some odd-score rounding up to make those scores feel a little more impactful. Thanks for the notion, Panatgruel.
Heh. I mean, just to prove the point?
Most of my table saw Practiced Expert and were amazed the feat made it into a UA document. We all figured it was so perfect it couldn't be allowed to exist, that surely Wizards would take it away because it's straight-up Ohh Pee even if it felt (to us, anyways) like an absolutely necessary Universal Hole Plugger feat.
At least half of the opinions I saw on Practiced Expert were "why is this even a thing? Nobody'll take this, it's just a janky Skilled with a half-ASI attached. Nobody cares about skills."
MUHFUGGER, I CARE DX. I need Practiced Expert the way a Coke addict needs his next bottle of soda! And 5e in general needs at least ONE half-ASI which can be used to fill in any missing half-step of a modifier no matter what else the character is doing. Resilient doesn't do it - if you already have the save proficiency you need the half-ASI for (the way many an artificer looking for a half-boost of Intelligence might), Resilient sucks. The system needs Practiced Expert, and if you're the sort of jobless murderhobo who's never rolled an ability check that didn't end in dealing damage in your life you can just suck it up and deal.
Nyah.
Please do not contact or message me.
But tell us how you're really feeling, Yurei. Don't hold back now.*
*not meant to be taken as a literal statement
i am annoyed that the new gourmand feat does not offer tool expertise like the old one used to, but hey its fine if i am going to play an mark of hospitality artificer who is good at cooking
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
*Linguist crying in the corner*
Already have Linguist. Heh, took it as my freebie starting feat in Grave of Saints - everybody gets a single noncombat feat to start with, to avoid Variant Human abuse. Poor Star ended up with 19 Intelligence regardless, so I needs me another one. Observant is always good...but the girl has 6 Wisdom and I have instructed my DM that she basically forfeits any passive Perception or Insight check, so...Observant kinna off the table. Hueh.
Personally I'm a big fan of Linguist. Some campaigns just assume everything is always Common forever, but that's just not any fun. Star is proficient in six different languages covering most of the major spoken tongues of the influential nations of Tursk, and she's created a private cipher specifically for use between herself and her sister using the codemaker function of Linguist. Really enjoy that feat. Just...y'know...need another one.
Please do not contact or message me.
A few of the skill feats seem underpowered, but plenty are good. Looking just at the secondary effects (every one of them offers an ASI and expertise)
This list is fairly spot on with my opinions of the Feats.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
I assume the animal handling feat doesn't let you do anything that the animal handling skill doesn't permit, you're just doing it as a bonus action, but the animal handling skill is unclear enough that this doesn't really help.
Resilient does not suck. Your philosophy of "I want everything, and I want it now" permeates your view. I think it is pretty much mandatory that my Rogue get Proficiency in Constitution, so I plan my char and allocated ability points from the beginning so Con is an odd number to start. But that requires discipline, and making tradeoffs, when I build the char. You have made it clear that you don't believe in that.
Did you read her post? “If you already have the save proficiency you need the half-ASI for..., Resilient sucks.” If your rogue needs proficiency in CON saves, then this obviously doesn’t apply to your situation.
The rest of your comment is just a bizarre personal attack that doesn’t follow from anything she’s said anywhere else, so I really don’t know what to make of it.
This is what I plan to do with my Druid when we hit level 8(or War Caster). I haven’t taken the ASI yet with her and I am loving her play so far. A lot of my stats are odd it seems but that is what I rolled.
However what is with that personal attack? Maybe the character doesn’t need the save as they already have the save which would make resilient subpar.
note: thieves can't is not a language, and two characters speaking thieves can't cannot communicate
note about arcanist: i am not shure but i think that if you are an bard or an sorcerer who did not already know detect magic, you could absolutely use spell slots to cast the spell by the same reasoning as magic initiate, https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/sac/sage-advice-compendium#Feats and observant is still better than perceptive
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
I love the Half ASI Feats. It allows you to customize your character and still bump Stats. Some Feats are way too good to pass up if you are concerned with combat (Sharp Shooter/Great Weapon Master/Warcaster) but there are a number of Feats that don't get taken as often as it is hard to sacrifice "viability" for "flavor" (not an issue for me as I will always take what makes sense from an RP perspective over being a munchkin). I think the Half ASI helps alleviate that problem a little and therefore we need more of them.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
Thieves’ Cant
During your rogue training you learned thieves’ cant, a secret mix of dialect, jargon, and code that allows you to hide messages in seemingly normal conversation. Only another creature that knows thieves’ cant understands such messages. It takes four times longer to convey such a message than it does to speak the same idea plainly.
In addition, you understand a set of secret signs and symbols used to convey short, simple messages, such as whether an area is dangerous or the territory of a thieves’ guild, whether loot is nearby, or whether the people in an area are easy marks or will provide a safe house for thieves on the run.
It very clearly allows to people with Theives' Cant to communicate, it just takes 4 times longer.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
For clarity, I was proposing replacing observant because it's an obnoxious feat that shouldn't exist (passive checks in general are a mess).
Thanks, Saga. Vince is upset with me from the Species thread, wherein we hold opposite viewpoints and have not been as polite as we might could've been while working through those viewpoints.
To clarify: Resilient is excellent if you need the save your Resilient-ing for, i.e. picking up Constitution save proficiency on one's rogue. If you already have that save i.e. if you're an artificer with proficiency in Intelligence saves that needs one point of Intelligence, then Resilient is strictly worse than a regular ASI.
Practiced Expert is a feat which is as close to universally applicable as a feat is likely to get, enabling any player who doesn't have it to plug a one-point hole in their stats almost entirely regardless of what else they already have and still pick up some very useful bonus proficiencies. I think it's a puzzle piece nobody know how much they needed until we got it and realized it's never been there before.
Please do not contact or message me.
Please don't be deliberately obtuse, Kotath. If, as is currently the case with my artificer, one has a single odd score and five even ones, then an Attribute Improvement is only half as effective as it should be until and unless you find a proper half-feat to fill the hole.
Yes, I could take a standard ASI to fill my Intelligence up to 20 and nudge Dex to 15, in preparation for taking Resilient: Dex in four more levels. Considering the fact that I have no idea if the campaign will continue for four more levels and that the point of Dex from that ASI is completely and utterly worthless until the stat is raised to 16 with a subsequent half-ASI, it's not particularly rewarding to take an ASI that only halfway works.
Which you were fully aware of when you posted. If ability scores were relevant more than once every thousand years, then having odd scores waiting on a stat bump would not be so vexing. But the score is essentially worthless, especially in cases such as Dexterity where literally no feature or mechanic in the entire game references the score rather than the modifier, and as such a universally applicable way of filling in the important half of a missing modifier would be helpful.
Please do not contact or message me.
Ponder rounding up on your ability scores for certain purposes (damage bonus on attacks using the trait, for example).
Hm. That's an interesting idea, good notion for making odd scores less painful. I still wish 5e wasn't designed quite this poorly, but Wizards' hands were tied. And frankly they wouldn't have cared to design something sensible anyways. Still, I kinda like this notion. May have a peeksypoo through the PHB at some point and see where one might benefit from some odd-score rounding up to make those scores feel a little more impactful. Thanks for the notion, Panatgruel.
Please do not contact or message me.
Jeez. I remember 1E where your ability scores did nothing unless you had a 16 or more.