I am a new DM leading a game with mostly all new (never played before) players. I recently started a campaign in which the first session (with 6 players) went amazing. The second session (with 7 players) was rather disappointing with various issues. The issues I have noticed was the pacing of conversations compared to action, players not engaging with hooks presented to them, and player/character interactions that were inconsistent.
While I imagine the player/character interactions may partially sort themselves out and otherwise I feel I can manage, I am more concerned on pacing and players catching onto plot hooks.
My sessions are always 3 hours long due to everyone's schedules. The feedback I got from the players was that the first hour of the second session felt like a waste, and I agree. I had to introduce a late member, and was trying to get players to engage with important NPCs that would have led them into encounters and quests. The situation was that the last session, players had made an agreement to make a party and leave the swamp town to head south. They were getting rooms at the inn for the night, however, had to find their way to get them since they were all taken. Second session began with them finishing up getting rooms. At the same time, an NPC brought the last player into the tavern where all other players were. Most players just decided to go into their rooms and hid for most of the interaction between the newest player and a couple other players. While one player tried to get members to come down to meet the new player, only one out of 5 other members came down. The one plater that came down came so close to obtaining information that would have led them into a quest but backed off of interacting with the NPC before the conversation popped up. This entire ordeal took a lot of time.
After that, players decided to go around town to try and get equipment to leave, completely disregarding the NPC that had been noted as important. The NPC was deserted by everyone including the player they introduced and an entire portion of encounters I had planned were locked out. It was only at the very end of the session that players left the town and were attacked. Next session we will be doing our first round of combat.
I have discovered this about my players:
Only 2 players seem to be goal setters
Everyone else seems to be reactionary to the leading two
Players may not know how to interact with NPCs or descriptionary cues (I repeatedly mentioned a message board that no one checked)
I imagine part of it is them being brand new shiny players, but another I can only assume is the fault of the DM.
SO. My big questions are:
How do you manage pacing for a campaign?
How do you encourage players to go do things without directly telling them to go do things?
How can you make more engaging plot hooks for characters to latch onto?
Well, this is a tricky one for one very simple reason. Your players will ALWAYS do something you will not expect. They'll go somewhere you don't expect them to go. How I handle pacing ties into my answer to question two, so I'll go in more detail there for what I do.
How do you encourage players to go do things without directly telling them to go do things?
You add small snippets of things for what's going on. Say there is an incoming raid from bandits or goblins. If the players were supposed to go to the barracks or the guard house to get the quest but chose not to, instead have a scout rushing through the streets where they are so they can see something is up. If they choose to ignore it, have an npc who is a relative of the scout spread rumors and gossip about what the scout was saying. If they still do not follow up on it, then just let the bandit or goblin raid happen and let the players react as they will.
If something big is happening or about to happen, there will be signs, many of them. If the players have reached a position of prominence then they may end up being among the first to know because of messengers, or the town criers could go through the streets calling out a need for recruits. Maybe have alternative solutions if the players decide to end up on the underside of the law try to take advantage of the situation and offer the players opportunities to come out ahead of what is happening, like raiding the barracks of the guards chest of gold meant for their salaries while they're busy fighting the goblins or bandits and they have to deal with stronger, but fewer, enemies and try not to get caught.
How can you make more engaging plot hooks for characters to latch onto?
Know your players and how they want to play their characters. Talk to them outside of the game and listen to what their characters are interested in but also remind them that their characters are adventurers and an adventure requires people to go on it. If the players are saying their characters wouldn't do this because it would be out of character for them to do so then talk to that player and ask them what would make their character do it and if they don't you may just have to tell them to roll up a new character who would do it, or let them do their own thing during the plot hook. So if the other players are having this adventure and the player and their character chose not to do it are just sitting there waiting for them to come back and is not having fun, remind the player that their character did not go on the adventure because it would be out of character for them.
Also, take into account characters backstories. You don't need to implement them immediately, sometime you may not do so at all, but that should help you know the characters motivations.
Some of it comes from what you plan for them and some of it comes from the choices the players makes. This I've learned will come with time as you begin to learn the pacing of your players. I'd suggest looking to some of your own favorite stories, games, and movies to look at pacing. A lot of it can be broken down into simple concepts of "combat scene, chase scene, romance scene, dialogue scene, etc." and might make it easier to apply those concepts to your own games. This could be treated simply as a starting point for your players to expand on.
Also, don't be afraid to add or remove stuff on the fly if you feel like the game is getting bogged down by too much or not enough stuff to do or if the encounters are being too harsh or too easy. Google "The hero's journey" or other writing techniques. I feel like these are useful for mini story arc's or if you have some grand overall concept you want to play with. You can't adhere to them the same way you would if you were writing a story, but they do give good insight for building towards something and what comes after.
How do you encourage players to go do things without directly telling them to go do things?
If the players get stuck or find themselves without direction, I like to use random intelligence checks here and there. You can use this as a way to point them in a direction. It's also a good way to help players feel like they are contributing or even setting goals themselves. For example, if one of your less goal-oriented players passed by the bounty board on their way to the inn and the party finds themselves without direction or seem lost on what to do next. Have that specific player roll an intelligence check and on basically anything other than a natural 1, tell them something along the lines of "You remember the bounty board you passed on the way here. It looked like it had a number of opportunities that caught your eye." This ideally, will allow the player to be the one to suggest checking out the bounty board to the rest of the players and feel less like you were instructing them to check it out.
I'm also a fan of applying time limits to situations when possible. Use a timer on your phone or an hourglass if you have one and place it in full view of the entire table. It may sound counterintuitive to do this if your players are already having difficulties in decision making, but some people actually work better under pressure. If nothing else it should focus all of their attention on the common problem. If they succeed, then problem solved. If they fail, you can use this as a plot device moving forward and reintroduce it or elements of it as the story progresses.
Look at what kind of race/class the party consists of. If you can hint at what the rewards of a certain quest might be (beyond gold) and personalize that reward to a member of the party, then you should be able to entice them to go after it. A human might have to prove his strength by slaying some beast in order to gain entry to an all orc settlement. A wizard is going to care little for heavy armor, but might really want a tomb of spells that a deadly magic user is said to own in a cursed forest. A rogue might have to complete a burglary of a noble's estate to gain membership to a thieves guild that grants special privileges.
Lastly, you could always use a little more of a forceful method to introduce your players to a quest/story hook if they aren't picking up on clues. Using the bounty board as an example again. You could always have the person who made the posting show up at the inn while the party is there and is going up to patrons one at a time asking for help. However, always keep in mind that if the hook you are presenting your players just doesn't seem interesting to them, then its better to drop it for now and try to introduce something different. If your players are repeatedly ignoring hooks, then its time to have a discussion about game expectations.
How can you make more engaging plot hooks for characters to latch onto?
Have you done a session zero with any of your players? If not I'd recommend at least talking to your players and see what kind of expectations or goals they would have from the game you are putting on for them. If nothing else it should allow you to take what information they have given and find ways of incorporating it into your game. If a player feels like something that relates directly to their character is being used in the story, that should be additional incentive for them to latch on and will make the player in question feel like they are in the spotlight of the story in a good way.
You can also alter content you already have created by making some simple changes. For example, if your party has a paladin. You could say that a member of their order attempted and failed a bounty. He's willing to put in a good word for them at the order when he returns if they help complete this assignment. This could lead to long term benefits for the player.
If your party has someone with the entertainer background, they could be recognized and offered a job to perform somewhere. This could grant them and the party access to a district or establishment that they normally wouldn't have access to. Thus, giving more job or information gathering opportunities.
Both of these are very insightful and makes me feel relieved that I'm not horribly far off in my thought process on how to handle things.
I had done a session 0, but it was more or less going over character sheets and making sure things were squared away. We had a month of preparation beforehand, where I had talked to individuals about their characters, concepts, and what they might have wanted to see in the game. I've got about half of the party that's never touched a tabletop game in their life, and so don't really know what they want out of it. They were more or less anamored by the idea of being able to participate lol. But I think every session they play, they're starting to figure it out. Though we only had two sessions of gameplay, they're learning quick and I'm glad.
Thank you guys for your input. I will definitely apply your tips to my next game and hopefully I'll see some progress.
How do you encourage players to go do things without directly telling them to go do things?
How can you make more engaging plot hooks for characters to latch onto?
I'll offer up a few videos on my channel at allthingslich on youtube. Lots of advice on pacing and new DM stuff from the perspective of a dungeon master for 35 years. To answer your questions:
1) You mentioned session 2 being worse than session 1. You also said that session 2 began with finishing up the details for getting rooms. Don't start there. Start with something dynamic. Not necessarily combat, but dynamic. In a 3 hour session you don't have long to get your hooks in. Beginning the session with mundane stuff like equipment buying, meet and greet, and bargaining for rooms at an inn are lackluster. It may be necessary, but it's more like 2 mins of necessary. Afterward, get to something exciting! If you live in the U.S., think about a trip to Las Vegas. The highlight is the sightseeing, shows, gambling, food, people. No one wants to spend more time than needed checking in for their room.
As to maintaining pacing, that's mostly on you. Eat a good meal before the game. Get enough rest. Bring good energy. Change your posture and position. If there's a key NPC, stand up when you speak in their voice. Raise your voice. Stomp your fists. When you describe something melancholy or macabre, change the lights. Change the music. Do you use music? Set the stage and atmosphere. Speak and describe as though it's the most important thing you have to do. Sell it and put on a show. Hopefully they'll latch on and start paying attention.
Now, balance the pacing with a slow point. Immediately after saying, "roll initiative", say, "let's take a quick 5 min break for bathroom and grab food, then we'll get into the combat." Build suspense. When someone drops to death saves or dies outright, change the music, lower your tone and slump a bit more. Slow your words and pause. Wait for reactions.
Another good trick to get people on board is to roll 1d6 and set the result in front of them. Jot something random behind your DM screen, then say, "ok sorry, what did you want to do again?" Fake it till you make it. Get them to think something important is happening.
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2) This one is easy. Before the game starts, remind them that they are heroes in this world. They are expected to go out and do heroic stuff because no one else is going to do it. Put them on center stage and make the game about them. Consider PC backgrounds and incorporate as many as you can into one story arc. Consider how your players like to play (social, exploration, combat) and push that in front of them. If you have 2 leaders and 4-5 followers, what do the leaders like to do (either real life players or in-game characters). Build a story and hook around what they like and they'll convince the others to follow suit.
Back to the first part. Remind them that you will be offering them opportunities to go on adventures. They have to take them. I don't care if it's railroading, if that's what you need as a new DM so be it. In my 35 years I have other ways but I have the experience and confidence to be elegant with my adventure hooks. You don't, especially if you have players that aren't "latching" on to it. There's no point in playing D&D if they don't want to go on awesome and scary adventures. Perhaps you should just play a boardgame or something instead. Don't rush D&D. It'll take.
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3) Attach it to the things they like, either as real players or what they've expressed interest in their character pursuing. Otherwise, restart the session or campaign entirely and ask them, "what sort of game do you guys want to play?" If they want Disneyland, arcade style cartoonish fun, then nothing in Curse of Strahd (darker, vampire, gothic stuff) is going to stick. You have to match their mood (pacing) and their interests. Especially as real people. Get to know your players. In that, always remember - you don't have to rush D&D. Learn to find a good group of people whose company you enjoy first (watch movies, play other games, drink coffee, eat pizza and talk video games). Then, it'll all come together.
Pacing. This is campaign. If most everyone at the table had fun and you only had one combat, this is not a problem.
New players. Occasionally you just need to hand players a sign with “PLOT HOOK”, this does not mean you can get away with lame plot hooks, but sometimes the games are having fun is in character.
Only 2 players seem to be goal setters. Great you have people who can help advance the plot.
Everyone else seems to be reactionary to the leading two. This not a problem. I am a follower in the homebrew game I playing in. Why? Because I chilling out and enjoying the company of the table.
Not picking up on clues. Occasionally you need to just point out the clue. Reword the description.
The session 0 will not bring out all the wants, desires, or sensitive areas. Especially with new players. You will have more discussions during the campaign. New DMs and New players always have steep learning curves. Get to know what the players really want. Discover you own way to DM.
Thank you all a lot. I really appreciate all the responses and am implementing the advise. I'm hoping that there will be a great improvement next session. I'm feeling optimistic with the direction you all have given!
So rather than answer your questions I would like to look a little more closely at your description of what went on and address some things, because in my opinion there are some potential issues that could be resolved, some of them out of character. I will just quote certain parts that I would like to discuss -- hopefully some of this will help.
The feedback I got from the players was that the first hour of the second session felt like a waste, and I agree. I had to introduce a late member, and was trying to get players to engage with important NPCs that would have led them into encounters and quests.
This is not an uncommon situation. NPCs often have information, and if a new player is at the table, that player must certainly be introduced to the party. So let's look at what happened and why it felt like a waste to you and to them:
Second session began with them finishing up getting rooms. At the same time, an NPC brought the last player into the tavern where all other players were. Most players just decided to go into their rooms and hid for most of the interaction between the newest player and a couple other players.
This confuses me. Why would the players have their characters go hide in their inn rooms? Are they playing a bunch of cowards? Is this a place where anyone who walks into the inn is liable to be a murderous butcher who will kill anyone they see? Are they all on the run from the town watch and the NPC is a cop?
Additionally, from an OOC perspective, as players at the table, they know you are introducing a new player's PC to the party. It is simple courtesy as players, to go along with the introduction so the new player can join the group. Making it difficult is not going to do any good... and if it took an hour and "was a waste," this would be a big part of why -- they did not go along with the obvious player-to-player (not character-to-character) need to have a new player's PC introduced. I consider this poor sportsmanship -- being "in character" is great but not at the expense of practicality. I would have a conversation with my players about this and explain that, yes, RP and stay in character, but when you know, as a player, that something has to be done, you really need to go along with it. The reason this was a waste of time was precisely this -- they refused to go along and forced you to take an hour on something that would have taken 10 minutes if they had all just stayed in the common room and met the PC of a player they knew (as players) was joining the table.
The one player that came down came so close to obtaining information that would have led them into a quest but backed off of interacting with the NPC before the conversation popped up. This entire ordeal took a lot of time.
If the PC came so close, why didn't you just let the NPC give the information? You want them to have the info... the info. is there to get them on a quest. Making it hard to obtain info. you want the players to have as a plot hook into the adventure doesn't make a lot of sense to me. You want them to know this information -- give it to them if you can find the slightest excuse. Again this falls into the category as knowing, as a player at the table (in this case the player who is the DM) what the OOC needs of the game are, and make sure those needs happen. For instance, you realized one of the OOC needs was to introduce the character of another player, and you did that immediately and explicitly. One of the other OOC needs is for the players to have the information they need to go on your next quest -- you need to be as willing to provide that as you were to provide an "in" for the new player.
I'm not saying that all clues and information need to be "just given" to the party. Far from it! I keep lots of secrets from my players. But if it's something they absolutely have to know so that they can go on an actual adventure, I don't make it hard to obtain that information.
After that, players decided to go around town to try and get equipment to leave, completely disregarding the NPC that had been noted as important.The NPC was deserted by everyone including the player they introduced and an entire portion of encounters I had planned were locked out.
Players have free will. You have to accept and expect that, and prepare for them to not only not do what you planned, but to do the exact opposite. If getting the information the NPC had was necessary for moving the adventure forward, then you will need to provide other ways for them to get the information, should the NPC not be in a position to give it. Someone on this forum recommended, and I agree -- 3 ways to obtain necessary information. For example... the NPC has it... the information is available in written form in the library... and a bandit knows it who the party might capture and question later. Odds are at least ONE Of these things will happen.
The other thing as DM... I will plant clues and information and plot hooks around, but if the players miss those, they miss them. I know, it sucks to make maps and build encounters that don't get used, but you can recycle them later for something else. And this way you don't have to worry about trying to force the players to go down the path you had pre-planned.
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WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
This confuses me. Why would the players have their characters go hide in their inn rooms? Are they playing a bunch of cowards? Is this a place where anyone who walks into the inn is liable to be a murderous butcher who will kill anyone they see? Are they all on the run from the town watch and the NPC is a cop?
I think it was a "being in character too much" moment. I had mentioned multiple times that there was a large block of time that they could go and do things, but not enough time to go traveling out of the town before it got too dark. Characters had decided to go up into their rooms to call it a night because of one reason or another. One of the characters is "normally" antisocial. Another one is a bit of a tagallong to the first. Another one is a pretentious noble who was already disgusted with being in a dirty town. One player, I wasn't sure what they were doing. They're still learning how to jump in and play and so their character had been in the room for most of that time before the others had gone into their rooms. One of the players had called for them to come down, but that player was ignored and they remained in their rooms.
If the PC came so close, why didn't you just let the NPC give the information? You want them to have the info... the info. is there to get them on a quest.
edit; I had given the info that things were happening. The NPC was using the missions board. The NPC needed help. There was a lot of money involved that he was willing to share. etc etc. But the player just kind of nodded and remained silent. Didn't seem interested. The other players didn't seem to pick up on doing anything either. And since the other players remained upstairs in their room, it kind of got muddled out. It had been emphasized that the missions board was there, had things, there was a good payout for such a small town. The town needed help. People and merchants were going missing. I failed to have the NPC outright ask the single player for help. I more than likely need to find the right approach for the right players.
Yes, you are right, there is such a thing as being in character too much. When a player knows, as a player, that they need to include another player's PC into the group because the new player has joined, it is their job to put the in-character aside for a couple of minutes and make sure that the new player is able to join up.
Honestly I have never understood this motivation by players. They all know that the 5 of us are going to be playing D&D together for possibly years, and that these 5 PCs need to get together and have a reason to stay together, and the DM provides them with a bit of one, and instead of just going along with it, some players will fight kicking and screaming against it, insisting on RPing that their character would have to be dragged against their will into every single encounter for the first however many sessions.
Again, this is bad sportsmanship. You know you will be playing with this group of people for weeks, months, maybe years. Just accept whatever reason the DM gives and move on... RP about the adventure stuff instead of about "whether the group will stay together."
Likewise your players needed to just suck it up and deal with the fact that they had to incorporate someone new into their group. Refusing to RP adding that person to the group because they were being "too in character" is not acceptable. I would have stopped the session and had a conversation with the group right then and there, because this will just keep happening if people think they can sacrifice the playability at the table for "being super in character." No... you don't get to do that. If the game is not playable because of how you're RPing, you need to stop RPing whatever it is. Playability of the game is paramount -- without that the game falls apart. Quickly.
The second issue -- it seems like you gave them plenty of opportunity. If they didn't bite, they didn't bite. I would say that is not a problem -- until they complain that "nothing happened." To which again, I would respond OOC, as DM, and say "well, I gave you guys a chance to take a job from Bob (the NPC) but you weren't interested. If you want exciting stuff to happen maybe you should take people up on their offer of work."
Players are certainly free to ignore the quest hooks you offer and go off and RP about something else, if they want. Many tables have tons of fun doing that. But what they don't get to do, is ignore all the quest hooks you put in front of them, and then complain there are no quest hooks.
This is a two-way street. The players and the DM have to do give and take. The players have to realize that whatever RP is going on, we are still playing a game of D&D, and the game cannot function as intended if you just ignore all the story elements the DM puts in front of you.
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WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
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I am a new DM leading a game with mostly all new (never played before) players. I recently started a campaign in which the first session (with 6 players) went amazing. The second session (with 7 players) was rather disappointing with various issues. The issues I have noticed was the pacing of conversations compared to action, players not engaging with hooks presented to them, and player/character interactions that were inconsistent.
While I imagine the player/character interactions may partially sort themselves out and otherwise I feel I can manage, I am more concerned on pacing and players catching onto plot hooks.
My sessions are always 3 hours long due to everyone's schedules. The feedback I got from the players was that the first hour of the second session felt like a waste, and I agree. I had to introduce a late member, and was trying to get players to engage with important NPCs that would have led them into encounters and quests. The situation was that the last session, players had made an agreement to make a party and leave the swamp town to head south. They were getting rooms at the inn for the night, however, had to find their way to get them since they were all taken. Second session began with them finishing up getting rooms. At the same time, an NPC brought the last player into the tavern where all other players were. Most players just decided to go into their rooms and hid for most of the interaction between the newest player and a couple other players. While one player tried to get members to come down to meet the new player, only one out of 5 other members came down. The one plater that came down came so close to obtaining information that would have led them into a quest but backed off of interacting with the NPC before the conversation popped up. This entire ordeal took a lot of time.
After that, players decided to go around town to try and get equipment to leave, completely disregarding the NPC that had been noted as important. The NPC was deserted by everyone including the player they introduced and an entire portion of encounters I had planned were locked out. It was only at the very end of the session that players left the town and were attacked. Next session we will be doing our first round of combat.
I have discovered this about my players:
I imagine part of it is them being brand new shiny players, but another I can only assume is the fault of the DM.
SO. My big questions are:
How do you manage pacing for a campaign?
How do you encourage players to go do things without directly telling them to go do things?
How can you make more engaging plot hooks for characters to latch onto?
How do you manage pacing for a campaign?
Well, this is a tricky one for one very simple reason. Your players will ALWAYS do something you will not expect. They'll go somewhere you don't expect them to go. How I handle pacing ties into my answer to question two, so I'll go in more detail there for what I do.
How do you encourage players to go do things without directly telling them to go do things?
You add small snippets of things for what's going on. Say there is an incoming raid from bandits or goblins. If the players were supposed to go to the barracks or the guard house to get the quest but chose not to, instead have a scout rushing through the streets where they are so they can see something is up. If they choose to ignore it, have an npc who is a relative of the scout spread rumors and gossip about what the scout was saying. If they still do not follow up on it, then just let the bandit or goblin raid happen and let the players react as they will.
If something big is happening or about to happen, there will be signs, many of them. If the players have reached a position of prominence then they may end up being among the first to know because of messengers, or the town criers could go through the streets calling out a need for recruits. Maybe have alternative solutions if the players decide to end up on the underside of the law try to take advantage of the situation and offer the players opportunities to come out ahead of what is happening, like raiding the barracks of the guards chest of gold meant for their salaries while they're busy fighting the goblins or bandits and they have to deal with stronger, but fewer, enemies and try not to get caught.
How can you make more engaging plot hooks for characters to latch onto?
Know your players and how they want to play their characters. Talk to them outside of the game and listen to what their characters are interested in but also remind them that their characters are adventurers and an adventure requires people to go on it. If the players are saying their characters wouldn't do this because it would be out of character for them to do so then talk to that player and ask them what would make their character do it and if they don't you may just have to tell them to roll up a new character who would do it, or let them do their own thing during the plot hook. So if the other players are having this adventure and the player and their character chose not to do it are just sitting there waiting for them to come back and is not having fun, remind the player that their character did not go on the adventure because it would be out of character for them.
Also, take into account characters backstories. You don't need to implement them immediately, sometime you may not do so at all, but that should help you know the characters motivations.
How do you manage pacing for a campaign?
Some of it comes from what you plan for them and some of it comes from the choices the players makes. This I've learned will come with time as you begin to learn the pacing of your players. I'd suggest looking to some of your own favorite stories, games, and movies to look at pacing. A lot of it can be broken down into simple concepts of "combat scene, chase scene, romance scene, dialogue scene, etc." and might make it easier to apply those concepts to your own games. This could be treated simply as a starting point for your players to expand on.
Also, don't be afraid to add or remove stuff on the fly if you feel like the game is getting bogged down by too much or not enough stuff to do or if the encounters are being too harsh or too easy. Google "The hero's journey" or other writing techniques. I feel like these are useful for mini story arc's or if you have some grand overall concept you want to play with. You can't adhere to them the same way you would if you were writing a story, but they do give good insight for building towards something and what comes after.
How do you encourage players to go do things without directly telling them to go do things?
If the players get stuck or find themselves without direction, I like to use random intelligence checks here and there. You can use this as a way to point them in a direction. It's also a good way to help players feel like they are contributing or even setting goals themselves. For example, if one of your less goal-oriented players passed by the bounty board on their way to the inn and the party finds themselves without direction or seem lost on what to do next. Have that specific player roll an intelligence check and on basically anything other than a natural 1, tell them something along the lines of "You remember the bounty board you passed on the way here. It looked like it had a number of opportunities that caught your eye." This ideally, will allow the player to be the one to suggest checking out the bounty board to the rest of the players and feel less like you were instructing them to check it out.
I'm also a fan of applying time limits to situations when possible. Use a timer on your phone or an hourglass if you have one and place it in full view of the entire table. It may sound counterintuitive to do this if your players are already having difficulties in decision making, but some people actually work better under pressure. If nothing else it should focus all of their attention on the common problem. If they succeed, then problem solved. If they fail, you can use this as a plot device moving forward and reintroduce it or elements of it as the story progresses.
Look at what kind of race/class the party consists of. If you can hint at what the rewards of a certain quest might be (beyond gold) and personalize that reward to a member of the party, then you should be able to entice them to go after it. A human might have to prove his strength by slaying some beast in order to gain entry to an all orc settlement. A wizard is going to care little for heavy armor, but might really want a tomb of spells that a deadly magic user is said to own in a cursed forest. A rogue might have to complete a burglary of a noble's estate to gain membership to a thieves guild that grants special privileges.
Lastly, you could always use a little more of a forceful method to introduce your players to a quest/story hook if they aren't picking up on clues. Using the bounty board as an example again. You could always have the person who made the posting show up at the inn while the party is there and is going up to patrons one at a time asking for help. However, always keep in mind that if the hook you are presenting your players just doesn't seem interesting to them, then its better to drop it for now and try to introduce something different. If your players are repeatedly ignoring hooks, then its time to have a discussion about game expectations.
How can you make more engaging plot hooks for characters to latch onto?
Have you done a session zero with any of your players? If not I'd recommend at least talking to your players and see what kind of expectations or goals they would have from the game you are putting on for them. If nothing else it should allow you to take what information they have given and find ways of incorporating it into your game. If a player feels like something that relates directly to their character is being used in the story, that should be additional incentive for them to latch on and will make the player in question feel like they are in the spotlight of the story in a good way.
You can also alter content you already have created by making some simple changes. For example, if your party has a paladin. You could say that a member of their order attempted and failed a bounty. He's willing to put in a good word for them at the order when he returns if they help complete this assignment. This could lead to long term benefits for the player.
If your party has someone with the entertainer background, they could be recognized and offered a job to perform somewhere. This could grant them and the party access to a district or establishment that they normally wouldn't have access to. Thus, giving more job or information gathering opportunities.
Both of these are very insightful and makes me feel relieved that I'm not horribly far off in my thought process on how to handle things.
I had done a session 0, but it was more or less going over character sheets and making sure things were squared away. We had a month of preparation beforehand, where I had talked to individuals about their characters, concepts, and what they might have wanted to see in the game. I've got about half of the party that's never touched a tabletop game in their life, and so don't really know what they want out of it. They were more or less anamored by the idea of being able to participate lol. But I think every session they play, they're starting to figure it out. Though we only had two sessions of gameplay, they're learning quick and I'm glad.
Thank you guys for your input. I will definitely apply your tips to my next game and hopefully I'll see some progress.
I'll offer up a few videos on my channel at allthingslich on youtube. Lots of advice on pacing and new DM stuff from the perspective of a dungeon master for 35 years. To answer your questions:
1) You mentioned session 2 being worse than session 1. You also said that session 2 began with finishing up the details for getting rooms. Don't start there. Start with something dynamic. Not necessarily combat, but dynamic. In a 3 hour session you don't have long to get your hooks in. Beginning the session with mundane stuff like equipment buying, meet and greet, and bargaining for rooms at an inn are lackluster. It may be necessary, but it's more like 2 mins of necessary. Afterward, get to something exciting! If you live in the U.S., think about a trip to Las Vegas. The highlight is the sightseeing, shows, gambling, food, people. No one wants to spend more time than needed checking in for their room.
As to maintaining pacing, that's mostly on you. Eat a good meal before the game. Get enough rest. Bring good energy. Change your posture and position. If there's a key NPC, stand up when you speak in their voice. Raise your voice. Stomp your fists. When you describe something melancholy or macabre, change the lights. Change the music. Do you use music? Set the stage and atmosphere. Speak and describe as though it's the most important thing you have to do. Sell it and put on a show. Hopefully they'll latch on and start paying attention.
Now, balance the pacing with a slow point. Immediately after saying, "roll initiative", say, "let's take a quick 5 min break for bathroom and grab food, then we'll get into the combat." Build suspense. When someone drops to death saves or dies outright, change the music, lower your tone and slump a bit more. Slow your words and pause. Wait for reactions.
Another good trick to get people on board is to roll 1d6 and set the result in front of them. Jot something random behind your DM screen, then say, "ok sorry, what did you want to do again?" Fake it till you make it. Get them to think something important is happening.
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2) This one is easy. Before the game starts, remind them that they are heroes in this world. They are expected to go out and do heroic stuff because no one else is going to do it. Put them on center stage and make the game about them. Consider PC backgrounds and incorporate as many as you can into one story arc. Consider how your players like to play (social, exploration, combat) and push that in front of them. If you have 2 leaders and 4-5 followers, what do the leaders like to do (either real life players or in-game characters). Build a story and hook around what they like and they'll convince the others to follow suit.
Back to the first part. Remind them that you will be offering them opportunities to go on adventures. They have to take them. I don't care if it's railroading, if that's what you need as a new DM so be it. In my 35 years I have other ways but I have the experience and confidence to be elegant with my adventure hooks. You don't, especially if you have players that aren't "latching" on to it. There's no point in playing D&D if they don't want to go on awesome and scary adventures. Perhaps you should just play a boardgame or something instead. Don't rush D&D. It'll take.
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3) Attach it to the things they like, either as real players or what they've expressed interest in their character pursuing. Otherwise, restart the session or campaign entirely and ask them, "what sort of game do you guys want to play?" If they want Disneyland, arcade style cartoonish fun, then nothing in Curse of Strahd (darker, vampire, gothic stuff) is going to stick. You have to match their mood (pacing) and their interests. Especially as real people. Get to know your players. In that, always remember - you don't have to rush D&D. Learn to find a good group of people whose company you enjoy first (watch movies, play other games, drink coffee, eat pizza and talk video games). Then, it'll all come together.
All things Lich - DM tips, tricks, and other creative shenanigans
Pacing. This is campaign. If most everyone at the table had fun and you only had one combat, this is not a problem.
New players. Occasionally you just need to hand players a sign with “PLOT HOOK”, this does not mean you can get away with lame plot hooks, but sometimes the games are having fun is in character.
Only 2 players seem to be goal setters. Great you have people who can help advance the plot.
Everyone else seems to be reactionary to the leading two. This not a problem. I am a follower in the homebrew game I playing in. Why? Because I chilling out and enjoying the company of the table.
Not picking up on clues. Occasionally you need to just point out the clue. Reword the description.
The session 0 will not bring out all the wants, desires, or sensitive areas. Especially with new players. You will have more discussions during the campaign. New DMs and New players always have steep learning curves. Get to know what the players really want. Discover you own way to DM.
No Gaming is Better than Bad Gaming.
Thank you all a lot. I really appreciate all the responses and am implementing the advise. I'm hoping that there will be a great improvement next session. I'm feeling optimistic with the direction you all have given!
So rather than answer your questions I would like to look a little more closely at your description of what went on and address some things, because in my opinion there are some potential issues that could be resolved, some of them out of character. I will just quote certain parts that I would like to discuss -- hopefully some of this will help.
This is not an uncommon situation. NPCs often have information, and if a new player is at the table, that player must certainly be introduced to the party. So let's look at what happened and why it felt like a waste to you and to them:
This confuses me. Why would the players have their characters go hide in their inn rooms? Are they playing a bunch of cowards? Is this a place where anyone who walks into the inn is liable to be a murderous butcher who will kill anyone they see? Are they all on the run from the town watch and the NPC is a cop?
Additionally, from an OOC perspective, as players at the table, they know you are introducing a new player's PC to the party. It is simple courtesy as players, to go along with the introduction so the new player can join the group. Making it difficult is not going to do any good... and if it took an hour and "was a waste," this would be a big part of why -- they did not go along with the obvious player-to-player (not character-to-character) need to have a new player's PC introduced. I consider this poor sportsmanship -- being "in character" is great but not at the expense of practicality. I would have a conversation with my players about this and explain that, yes, RP and stay in character, but when you know, as a player, that something has to be done, you really need to go along with it. The reason this was a waste of time was precisely this -- they refused to go along and forced you to take an hour on something that would have taken 10 minutes if they had all just stayed in the common room and met the PC of a player they knew (as players) was joining the table.
If the PC came so close, why didn't you just let the NPC give the information? You want them to have the info... the info. is there to get them on a quest. Making it hard to obtain info. you want the players to have as a plot hook into the adventure doesn't make a lot of sense to me. You want them to know this information -- give it to them if you can find the slightest excuse. Again this falls into the category as knowing, as a player at the table (in this case the player who is the DM) what the OOC needs of the game are, and make sure those needs happen. For instance, you realized one of the OOC needs was to introduce the character of another player, and you did that immediately and explicitly. One of the other OOC needs is for the players to have the information they need to go on your next quest -- you need to be as willing to provide that as you were to provide an "in" for the new player.
I'm not saying that all clues and information need to be "just given" to the party. Far from it! I keep lots of secrets from my players. But if it's something they absolutely have to know so that they can go on an actual adventure, I don't make it hard to obtain that information.
Players have free will. You have to accept and expect that, and prepare for them to not only not do what you planned, but to do the exact opposite. If getting the information the NPC had was necessary for moving the adventure forward, then you will need to provide other ways for them to get the information, should the NPC not be in a position to give it. Someone on this forum recommended, and I agree -- 3 ways to obtain necessary information. For example... the NPC has it... the information is available in written form in the library... and a bandit knows it who the party might capture and question later. Odds are at least ONE Of these things will happen.
The other thing as DM... I will plant clues and information and plot hooks around, but if the players miss those, they miss them. I know, it sucks to make maps and build encounters that don't get used, but you can recycle them later for something else. And this way you don't have to worry about trying to force the players to go down the path you had pre-planned.
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
I think it was a "being in character too much" moment. I had mentioned multiple times that there was a large block of time that they could go and do things, but not enough time to go traveling out of the town before it got too dark. Characters had decided to go up into their rooms to call it a night because of one reason or another. One of the characters is "normally" antisocial. Another one is a bit of a tagallong to the first. Another one is a pretentious noble who was already disgusted with being in a dirty town. One player, I wasn't sure what they were doing. They're still learning how to jump in and play and so their character had been in the room for most of that time before the others had gone into their rooms. One of the players had called for them to come down, but that player was ignored and they remained in their rooms.
So on these two points.
Yes, you are right, there is such a thing as being in character too much. When a player knows, as a player, that they need to include another player's PC into the group because the new player has joined, it is their job to put the in-character aside for a couple of minutes and make sure that the new player is able to join up.
Honestly I have never understood this motivation by players. They all know that the 5 of us are going to be playing D&D together for possibly years, and that these 5 PCs need to get together and have a reason to stay together, and the DM provides them with a bit of one, and instead of just going along with it, some players will fight kicking and screaming against it, insisting on RPing that their character would have to be dragged against their will into every single encounter for the first however many sessions.
Again, this is bad sportsmanship. You know you will be playing with this group of people for weeks, months, maybe years. Just accept whatever reason the DM gives and move on... RP about the adventure stuff instead of about "whether the group will stay together."
Likewise your players needed to just suck it up and deal with the fact that they had to incorporate someone new into their group. Refusing to RP adding that person to the group because they were being "too in character" is not acceptable. I would have stopped the session and had a conversation with the group right then and there, because this will just keep happening if people think they can sacrifice the playability at the table for "being super in character." No... you don't get to do that. If the game is not playable because of how you're RPing, you need to stop RPing whatever it is. Playability of the game is paramount -- without that the game falls apart. Quickly.
The second issue -- it seems like you gave them plenty of opportunity. If they didn't bite, they didn't bite. I would say that is not a problem -- until they complain that "nothing happened." To which again, I would respond OOC, as DM, and say "well, I gave you guys a chance to take a job from Bob (the NPC) but you weren't interested. If you want exciting stuff to happen maybe you should take people up on their offer of work."
Players are certainly free to ignore the quest hooks you offer and go off and RP about something else, if they want. Many tables have tons of fun doing that. But what they don't get to do, is ignore all the quest hooks you put in front of them, and then complain there are no quest hooks.
This is a two-way street. The players and the DM have to do give and take. The players have to realize that whatever RP is going on, we are still playing a game of D&D, and the game cannot function as intended if you just ignore all the story elements the DM puts in front of you.
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.