Right there is a buyer beware as with any service that isn't licensed and regulated etc. (and even there, all cafes and restaurants aren't equal). That said, if you're seeking a paid GM, there are "matching services" that don't provide just the DMs advertisement but reviews from past customers. Here's one:
Oh wow. I joined a group online over the past year & it didn't turn out too well. I thought if I paid for it, it would be a better game experience. Now after those warnings, I am uneasy about it.
But thanks for all the help. I will look more & think on it. Ty
I would absolutely never pay to play a game of D&D, just get a bunch of your friends or family together. All you need is your imagination. D&D is a game played with friends, with snacks and jokes, maybe a beer or two if you are adults, not paying someone that you have never met and no nothing about, and just hoping that they will play a game style that you will enjoy. I have seen people on here and other forums charging 10 - 20 per session per person - that's disgraceful and pure daylight robbery.
I would absolutely never pay to play a game of D&D, just get a bunch of your friends or family together. All you need is your imagination. D&D is a game played with friends, with snacks and jokes, maybe a beer or two if you are adults, not paying someone that you have never met and no nothing about, and just hoping that they will play a game style that you will enjoy. I have seen people on here and other forums charging 10 - 20 per session per person - that's disgraceful and pure daylight robbery.
I could say the same thing about food and complain about how restaurants are overpriced. Not everyone will find value in a paid GM, but some do.
It would be no different if your boss or customer says that it is disgraceful for you to charge the rates you demand and that your work should be completed for free.
I would absolutely never pay to play a game of D&D, just get a bunch of your friends or family together. All you need is your imagination. D&D is a game played with friends, with snacks and jokes, maybe a beer or two if you are adults, not paying someone that you have never met and no nothing about, and just hoping that they will play a game style that you will enjoy. I have seen people on here and other forums charging 10 - 20 per session per person - that's disgraceful and pure daylight robbery.
As you know, this has been discussed plenty of places elsewhere. Like you, I don't see the need for a paid DM personally but I don't think the idea of a paid DM is the travesty you lay out. Maybe because I have a more realistic understanding and some experience with the practice. Your claim that D&D isn't "not paying someone that you have never met and know(sic) nothing about, and just hoping that they will play a game style that you will enjoy." How is that different for any player who is playing a game with a new group of people who organized through local game store or here on DDB LFG? Moreover, you think maybe, in hiring or signing up for a paid game, the player might do a little asking or vetting of the DM to see if the experience would be worth the money (notice the site I identified allows you to contact the DM, read reviews, and most DMs do explain their style quite a bit since they see their "style" as part of the service they're selling). As for the rates being daylight robbery, it looks more like a market rate, on par or less than what someone might pay to go see local/amateur live entertainment in most major U.S. cities. You don't like the idea of money crossing the game table for anything aside incidental expenses and maybe the food/drink pot. That's a preference in the way you play, and I'd reckon it's a preference held by most players. That said, there's nothing inherent in the game that prevents a DM being hired out for $. And there's no reason to mischaracterize the practice to try to force people to adhere to some sort of nonexistent play orthodoxy.
No, what you have said is completely different. In my job I have a contract, I have acceptable standards of behaviour, performance expectations, I have a variety of workplace protections from HR to the HSE, to Occupational health teams. To get the job I went through multiple interviews, background checks, confirmation of my qualifications and many other such things. It is also a profession, with many responsibilities and requirements, I don't 'play my job' as a game with my family and friends around the dinner table.
No, what you have said is completely different. In my job I have a contract, I have acceptable standards of behaviour, performance expectations, I have a variety of workplace protections from HR to the HSE, to Occupational health teams. To get the job I went through multiple interviews, background checks, confirmation of my qualifications and many other such things. It is also a profession, with many responsibilities and requirements, I don't 'play my job' as a game with my family and friends around the dinner table.
I"m not, but I do understand that which you refuse to because it outrages you.
You have a job, and at least the way you phrase it, it doesn't sound like an entertaining one. Entertainers, which professional DMs would likely be classified as if they were put into an employment sector, don't have HR and Occupational health teams etc. It's a gig economy that's been around before tech thought they invented the gig economy. Yes, they have performance expectations, they are supposed to provide a good game. If they don't, as a contractor, they don't get to come back. Interviews and quals and such are part of the vetting process I tried to illustrate for you; but you want to stick to your guns while not looking at what you're shooting. Background checks? So there are sites that specialize in providing DMs, and drawing tutors, and other crafty types to kids, those people do go through the necessary background checks many states have in place for people working with children.
You're not an entertainer, there are different types of jobs. This goes to the different types of playing styles that's been talked about again and again. It seems "I don't like it, so it must not be" is your position, without really appreciating that it's not what you think it is. It's strange, Dungeons and Dragons is at its core an opportunity to be something you're not. I'd assume one would have a little more headspace to negotiate differences.
Rather than your buttoned up work world, the "pro" DM or paid DM is more like the guy who is really good at making hot dogs. So good, that come festivals and parades and little league games, he sets up his grill in some tailgate area and sells his hot dogs for a few bucks. In your world this is something heinous. To most other points of view, it's not, and it's just part of the world.
My response (that you quoted above) was to Gammaray who referred to day jobs, but yes, my day job is not as an entertainer. I am however a hobbyist photographer. Virtually all my work is done as what is called TFP - Time for Print - it's an old concept now as we don't often provide printed images, normally electronic images. The idea is that photographers, models, hair and make up artists and designers (clothing, artists, set and prop creators etc) all work together for free, sharing costs, to create beautiful artistic images. Most of mine are then provided to charities and the like to raise funds and advertise their work.
The point being here that if you don't provide images that are of the desired quality then you don't get invited back to the party. So I understand your comments regarding the quality of an entertainers work. But, in the same way that the photography is a hobby for me and I don't get paid to do it, the same applies to D&D, it's a hobby, a game played with friends - and yes they may be friends you haven't met yet as in the case of pick up groups (which can be good or bad experiences). Costs are shared, good times are had, new people met, a better and often more educational experience than sitting in your living room watching the idiot box all night.
It's the same reasoning as for my photography - I don't get paid, but I get to meet new people, work with other creatives, create beautiful art, experiment with techniques and skills I might have never used before, and raise needed funds for charities.D&D sessions - whether as a GM or a player also provides a lot of opportunities and experiences, team working exercises, problem solving, critical thinking, deduction and logic, puzzle solving, social interactions, basic math and literacy etc that benefit people in all walks of life. It is both educational and extremely fun. All you eed is your imagination - you don't even need dice as there are many diceless systems like Amber.
1) If you are throwing parties for friends and family, do you charge them anything other than costs?
2) If you put in a ton of work arranging such parties, agonizing over the right music, possibly purchasing the right music, learning new recipes, possibly even taking cooking courses or buying new cookbooks, hand making decorations, etc, do you expect friends and family to consider those 'costs' even if you did not consult with them in advance of putting in the time or incurring said costs?
3) If one of your friends offers to throw the next party, do you encourage them or treat them as competition?
4) If your friends prefer to go to a movie, which has a multi-million dollar production budget rather than your parties, in part due to the fees you are charging, do you get upset at your friends?
Not saying that there is no room for professional DM's. I am merely saying that it is an uphill battle and if you feel the costs of DMing are unfair, then it sounds like you may find it becomes like any other profession for you, more stress than fun.
1. I don't charge, but with friends it is generally considered rude for them to never bring a bottle or something that adds to the party - such as providing the 'cards against humanity' after dinner entertainment. Bringing alcohol is not expected, but it's nice once in a while, or even just making the offer of "Is there anything I can bring?" goes a long way toward being invited back to the next one.
2. Nope, my costs are my costs, and if I want to go off and attend a class or something then it's for my benefit - and often the guests are the guinea pigs for the skills I have just learned.
3. Not at all, it's nice not to be the host and have to do all the housework before hand or clear up the dishes afterwards. :)
4. No, and I might even go with them if it's a movie I would like to watch.
I would absolutely never pay to play a game of D&D, just get a bunch of your friends or family together. All you need is your imagination. D&D is a game played with friends, with snacks and jokes, maybe a beer or two if you are adults, not paying someone that you have never met and no nothing about, and just hoping that they will play a game style that you will enjoy. I have seen people on here and other forums charging 10 - 20 per session per person - that's disgraceful and pure daylight robbery.
I would be happy to pay $125 for a 5 hour one shot to this guy https://www.dmforhire.com/ not everyone has time to prep D&D.
Just because you can't imagine a situation where people might pay doesn't mean every situation is a shit experience and a rip off.
I would absolutely never pay to play a game of D&D, just get a bunch of your friends or family together. All you need is your imagination. D&D is a game played with friends, with snacks and jokes, maybe a beer or two if you are adults, not paying someone that you have never met and no nothing about, and just hoping that they will play a game style that you will enjoy. I have seen people on here and other forums charging 10 - 20 per session per person - that's disgraceful and pure daylight robbery.
I would be happy to pay $125 for a 5 hour one shot to this guy https://www.dmforhire.com/ not everyone has time to prep D&D.
Just because you can't imagine a situation where people might pay doesn't mean every situation is a shit experience and a rip off.
You need more imagination !
What people are prepared to pay is immaterial. Someone earning £50,000 per year will have a lot of things that someone on the UK minimum wage of around £17,500 can't afford to buy.
But 125 USD (£94) is a lot of money for 5 hours entertainment, I could take my entire family to a theme park in the UK for a full day and pay less than that. I think the issue is more to do with UK culture and USA culture being very different. This kind of 'pay to play' is very much a capitalist America thing.
At no point did I say it was a rip off or a bad experience - it might be great if you get a good one, or it might be rubbish. If you look at the posts on here and on Roll20 for example, there is no form of reference system so you have no way of knowing if the person offering to DM a paid game is actually any good or not. So you might very well get a great, value for money service - or you might get a load of worthless rubbish. The only way to tell is to pay up. Being morally and ethically right or wrong (my argument) is completely different to being value for money or not (your argument). The limits of my imagination make no difference in the matter when you are arguing about something completely different to me.
The guy on your link 'John' for example has just a single reference that has been typed up by the website creator, there is absolutely no way to verify it. A guestbook type sub-page where customers could input their own references and even give a score out of 10 or 5 stars or whatever would be better, and include some way of verifying them.
This kind of 'pay to play' is very much a capitalist America thing.
At no point did I say it was a rip off or a bad experience - it might be great if you get a good one, or it might be rubbish. If you look at the posts on here and on Roll20 for example, there is no form of reference system so you have no way of knowing if the person offering to DM a paid game is actually any good or not. So you might very well get a great, value for money service - or you might get a load of worthless rubbish. The only way to tell is to pay up. Being morally and ethically right or wrong (my argument) is completely different to being value for money or not (your argument). The limits of my imagination make no difference in the matter when you are arguing about something completely different to me.
The guy on your link 'John' for example has just a single reference that has been typed up by the website creator, there is absolutely no way to verify it. A guestbook type sub-page where customers could input their own references and even give a score out of 10 or 5 stars or whatever would be better, and include some way of verifying them.
Yes in America people pay for things, its not handed out by the government.
If you don't know how to verify services before purchasing then you best stay off the internet, it is not for you.
Yes in America people pay for things, its not handed out by the government.
If you don't know how to verify services before purchasing then you best stay off the internet, it is not for you.
Wow, what a truly well thought out response to the discussion. I guess that ends our conversation, you are clearly incapable of holding an adult, civilised discussion.
This kind of 'pay to play' is very much a capitalist America thing.
At no point did I say it was a rip off or a bad experience - it might be great if you get a good one, or it might be rubbish. If you look at the posts on here and on Roll20 for example, there is no form of reference system so you have no way of knowing if the person offering to DM a paid game is actually any good or not. So you might very well get a great, value for money service - or you might get a load of worthless rubbish. The only way to tell is to pay up. Being morally and ethically right or wrong (my argument) is completely different to being value for money or not (your argument). The limits of my imagination make no difference in the matter when you are arguing about something completely different to me.
The guy on your link 'John' for example has just a single reference that has been typed up by the website creator, there is absolutely no way to verify it. A guestbook type sub-page where customers could input their own references and even give a score out of 10 or 5 stars or whatever would be better, and include some way of verifying them.
Yes in America people pay for things, its not handed out by the government.
If you don't know how to verify services before purchasing then you best stay off the internet, it is not for you.
To verify things on the internet, you need a reliable third party site and enough people using it for that product to have meaningful feedback. And meanwhile, you seem to be insisting that anyone starting such a service should be avoided, since there can be no reviews of a product not yet on the market.
That is the reality. And lecturing people on whether they should or should not be on the internet does not change that.
You also have not responded to my point that the DM you linked would charge you travel if outside his locality and $125 for 5 hours would only be solo play. Ironic that you should refer people to an offline service and tell them if they cannot verify its quality, they should stay off the internet.
Your point was pointless and not worth responding too. But congratz, you can read.
This kind of 'pay to play' is very much a capitalist America thing.
At no point did I say it was a rip off or a bad experience - it might be great if you get a good one, or it might be rubbish. If you look at the posts on here and on Roll20 for example, there is no form of reference system so you have no way of knowing if the person offering to DM a paid game is actually any good or not. So you might very well get a great, value for money service - or you might get a load of worthless rubbish. The only way to tell is to pay up. Being morally and ethically right or wrong (my argument) is completely different to being value for money or not (your argument). The limits of my imagination make no difference in the matter when you are arguing about something completely different to me.
The guy on your link 'John' for example has just a single reference that has been typed up by the website creator, there is absolutely no way to verify it. A guestbook type sub-page where customers could input their own references and even give a score out of 10 or 5 stars or whatever would be better, and include some way of verifying them.
Yes in America people pay for things, its not handed out by the government.
If you don't know how to verify services before purchasing then you best stay off the internet, it is not for you.
To verify things on the internet, you need a reliable third party site and enough people using it for that product to have meaningful feedback. And meanwhile, you seem to be insisting that anyone starting such a service should be avoided, since there can be no reviews of a product not yet on the market.
The OP asked for information on how to find professional DMs, not for a debate on the virtues and vices of paid DM'ing services. As such, I would ask everyone stay on topic.
Additionally, this forum is no place for personal attacks or hostile language. Two people can differ on their opinion with regards to the value of something or lack thereof without the need for rudeness. Please be cognisant of the site rules and respect each other.
I'll say this as a player who pays for one night a week and a DM for free (Who wouldn't mind doing it online for some amount of payment with complete strangers): I've had PLENTY of online games with complete strangers fall apart due to no common bond amongst us versus in person where we're friends having a good time which keeps us going. Paying has added in another element of you're paying to take part so others are also going to be there. I get it if a person doesn't want to but being outraged at the idea seems kinda silly. Online has added a whole type of social interaction with others and its a lot harder to keep a group together than it is person and I'm glad to pay for the DM I have, hes great.
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Hey, does anyone know how to find professional DM's? I would appreciate any help. Thank you.
https://www.fiverr.com/vitor_araujo/be-a-dungeon-master-for-your-group-in-the-weekends
The lfg channel has some posting some times. Otherwise I’d check out your local gaming store.
Right there is a buyer beware as with any service that isn't licensed and regulated etc. (and even there, all cafes and restaurants aren't equal). That said, if you're seeking a paid GM, there are "matching services" that don't provide just the DMs advertisement but reviews from past customers. Here's one:
https://startplaying.games
On top of the profile of the DM that will give you a sense of whether they seem a fit, the reviews may reveal experiences that speak to you.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Oh wow. I joined a group online over the past year & it didn't turn out too well. I thought if I paid for it, it would be a better game experience. Now after those warnings, I am uneasy about it.
But thanks for all the help. I will look more & think on it. Ty
I would absolutely never pay to play a game of D&D, just get a bunch of your friends or family together. All you need is your imagination. D&D is a game played with friends, with snacks and jokes, maybe a beer or two if you are adults, not paying someone that you have never met and no nothing about, and just hoping that they will play a game style that you will enjoy. I have seen people on here and other forums charging 10 - 20 per session per person - that's disgraceful and pure daylight robbery.
I could say the same thing about food and complain about how restaurants are overpriced. Not everyone will find value in a paid GM, but some do.
It would be no different if your boss or customer says that it is disgraceful for you to charge the rates you demand and that your work should be completed for free.
Check Licenses and Resync Entitlements: < https://www.dndbeyond.com/account/licenses >
Running the Game by Matt Colville; Introduction: < https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-YZvLUXcR8 >
D&D with High School Students by Bill Allen; Season 1 Episode 1: < https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52NJTUDokyk&t >
As you know, this has been discussed plenty of places elsewhere. Like you, I don't see the need for a paid DM personally but I don't think the idea of a paid DM is the travesty you lay out. Maybe because I have a more realistic understanding and some experience with the practice. Your claim that D&D isn't "not paying someone that you have never met and know(sic) nothing about, and just hoping that they will play a game style that you will enjoy." How is that different for any player who is playing a game with a new group of people who organized through local game store or here on DDB LFG? Moreover, you think maybe, in hiring or signing up for a paid game, the player might do a little asking or vetting of the DM to see if the experience would be worth the money (notice the site I identified allows you to contact the DM, read reviews, and most DMs do explain their style quite a bit since they see their "style" as part of the service they're selling). As for the rates being daylight robbery, it looks more like a market rate, on par or less than what someone might pay to go see local/amateur live entertainment in most major U.S. cities. You don't like the idea of money crossing the game table for anything aside incidental expenses and maybe the food/drink pot. That's a preference in the way you play, and I'd reckon it's a preference held by most players. That said, there's nothing inherent in the game that prevents a DM being hired out for $. And there's no reason to mischaracterize the practice to try to force people to adhere to some sort of nonexistent play orthodoxy.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
I am guessing that you are one of the paid DM's?
No, what you have said is completely different. In my job I have a contract, I have acceptable standards of behaviour, performance expectations, I have a variety of workplace protections from HR to the HSE, to Occupational health teams. To get the job I went through multiple interviews, background checks, confirmation of my qualifications and many other such things. It is also a profession, with many responsibilities and requirements, I don't 'play my job' as a game with my family and friends around the dinner table.
I"m not, but I do understand that which you refuse to because it outrages you.
You have a job, and at least the way you phrase it, it doesn't sound like an entertaining one. Entertainers, which professional DMs would likely be classified as if they were put into an employment sector, don't have HR and Occupational health teams etc. It's a gig economy that's been around before tech thought they invented the gig economy. Yes, they have performance expectations, they are supposed to provide a good game. If they don't, as a contractor, they don't get to come back. Interviews and quals and such are part of the vetting process I tried to illustrate for you; but you want to stick to your guns while not looking at what you're shooting. Background checks? So there are sites that specialize in providing DMs, and drawing tutors, and other crafty types to kids, those people do go through the necessary background checks many states have in place for people working with children.
You're not an entertainer, there are different types of jobs. This goes to the different types of playing styles that's been talked about again and again. It seems "I don't like it, so it must not be" is your position, without really appreciating that it's not what you think it is. It's strange, Dungeons and Dragons is at its core an opportunity to be something you're not. I'd assume one would have a little more headspace to negotiate differences.
Rather than your buttoned up work world, the "pro" DM or paid DM is more like the guy who is really good at making hot dogs. So good, that come festivals and parades and little league games, he sets up his grill in some tailgate area and sells his hot dogs for a few bucks. In your world this is something heinous. To most other points of view, it's not, and it's just part of the world.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
My response (that you quoted above) was to Gammaray who referred to day jobs, but yes, my day job is not as an entertainer. I am however a hobbyist photographer. Virtually all my work is done as what is called TFP - Time for Print - it's an old concept now as we don't often provide printed images, normally electronic images. The idea is that photographers, models, hair and make up artists and designers (clothing, artists, set and prop creators etc) all work together for free, sharing costs, to create beautiful artistic images. Most of mine are then provided to charities and the like to raise funds and advertise their work.
The point being here that if you don't provide images that are of the desired quality then you don't get invited back to the party. So I understand your comments regarding the quality of an entertainers work. But, in the same way that the photography is a hobby for me and I don't get paid to do it, the same applies to D&D, it's a hobby, a game played with friends - and yes they may be friends you haven't met yet as in the case of pick up groups (which can be good or bad experiences). Costs are shared, good times are had, new people met, a better and often more educational experience than sitting in your living room watching the idiot box all night.
It's the same reasoning as for my photography - I don't get paid, but I get to meet new people, work with other creatives, create beautiful art, experiment with techniques and skills I might have never used before, and raise needed funds for charities.D&D sessions - whether as a GM or a player also provides a lot of opportunities and experiences, team working exercises, problem solving, critical thinking, deduction and logic, puzzle solving, social interactions, basic math and literacy etc that benefit people in all walks of life. It is both educational and extremely fun. All you eed is your imagination - you don't even need dice as there are many diceless systems like Amber.
1. I don't charge, but with friends it is generally considered rude for them to never bring a bottle or something that adds to the party - such as providing the 'cards against humanity' after dinner entertainment. Bringing alcohol is not expected, but it's nice once in a while, or even just making the offer of "Is there anything I can bring?" goes a long way toward being invited back to the next one.
2. Nope, my costs are my costs, and if I want to go off and attend a class or something then it's for my benefit - and often the guests are the guinea pigs for the skills I have just learned.
3. Not at all, it's nice not to be the host and have to do all the housework before hand or clear up the dishes afterwards. :)
4. No, and I might even go with them if it's a movie I would like to watch.
I would be happy to pay $125 for a 5 hour one shot to this guy https://www.dmforhire.com/ not everyone has time to prep D&D.
Just because you can't imagine a situation where people might pay doesn't mean every situation is a shit experience and a rip off.
You need more imagination !
What people are prepared to pay is immaterial. Someone earning £50,000 per year will have a lot of things that someone on the UK minimum wage of around £17,500 can't afford to buy.
But 125 USD (£94) is a lot of money for 5 hours entertainment, I could take my entire family to a theme park in the UK for a full day and pay less than that. I think the issue is more to do with UK culture and USA culture being very different. This kind of 'pay to play' is very much a capitalist America thing.
At no point did I say it was a rip off or a bad experience - it might be great if you get a good one, or it might be rubbish. If you look at the posts on here and on Roll20 for example, there is no form of reference system so you have no way of knowing if the person offering to DM a paid game is actually any good or not. So you might very well get a great, value for money service - or you might get a load of worthless rubbish. The only way to tell is to pay up. Being morally and ethically right or wrong (my argument) is completely different to being value for money or not (your argument). The limits of my imagination make no difference in the matter when you are arguing about something completely different to me.
The guy on your link 'John' for example has just a single reference that has been typed up by the website creator, there is absolutely no way to verify it. A guestbook type sub-page where customers could input their own references and even give a score out of 10 or 5 stars or whatever would be better, and include some way of verifying them.
Yes in America people pay for things, its not handed out by the government.
If you don't know how to verify services before purchasing then you best stay off the internet, it is not for you.
Wow, what a truly well thought out response to the discussion. I guess that ends our conversation, you are clearly incapable of holding an adult, civilised discussion.
Your point was pointless and not worth responding too. But congratz, you can read.
You seem to be confused on who said what.
The OP asked for information on how to find professional DMs, not for a debate on the virtues and vices of paid DM'ing services. As such, I would ask everyone stay on topic.
Additionally, this forum is no place for personal attacks or hostile language. Two people can differ on their opinion with regards to the value of something or lack thereof without the need for rudeness. Please be cognisant of the site rules and respect each other.
Find my D&D Beyond articles here
I'll say this as a player who pays for one night a week and a DM for free (Who wouldn't mind doing it online for some amount of payment with complete strangers): I've had PLENTY of online games with complete strangers fall apart due to no common bond amongst us versus in person where we're friends having a good time which keeps us going. Paying has added in another element of you're paying to take part so others are also going to be there. I get it if a person doesn't want to but being outraged at the idea seems kinda silly. Online has added a whole type of social interaction with others and its a lot harder to keep a group together than it is person and I'm glad to pay for the DM I have, hes great.