We're in a ship suspended by cranes in front of a warehouse and I go the side hatch to shoot a moonbeam at the Flesh Golem inside. The DM ruled the moonbeam doesn't work in an indoor space this small.
Everywhere I can find it seems that the moonbeam "should" work anywhere as there are no explicite restrictions due to indoor spaces or less than 40' ceilings.
Any thoughts or general understandings of the 40' piece of the spell as written (for our next session)? I'd like to be able to use this spell [C] to team with wildshape in any environment.
If your DM says it doesn't work, then it doesn't work.
While I don't read this spell as having the same size constraints as call lighting, my opinion doesn't matter. Once your DM has ruled, that's the way it is. Don't delay play by arguing, but you can discuss it with them after the game session.
Pretty much every rule in the book can vary from DM to DM, even in league play. If you find your DMs rulings too far from how you understand the game should be played, either find a new DM or run your own game.
Thanks. Looking for advice for the future. As always, I take the ruling in game and work it out later. This one seems due for more clarification since it's an important tool in the arsenal. Also since all posts I can find seem to contradict the interpretation.
Rule As Fun: Spotlight on Talent! Don't just stand there, Do something!
This post really caught my attention because in my Last play session this exact same spell vs monster came up in play.
(And I really like the spell. ) some things to remember about Moonbeam : it requires concentration to maintain and it doesn't cause damage when you cast it. The damage and save occur at the beginning of the subjects turn or when they enter the area of effect. So to do damage the same turn you cast it, you have to cast it next to your target and either be hasted or use action surge to get an extra action to shove your target into the area of effect.
Rule As Fun: Spotlight on Talent! Don't just stand there, Do something!
Not sure what this means? I've stated the intention which is to cast a [C] spell which will be held while the character goes into wildshape to "do something."
Spotlight on talent? Sorry. Not sure that is appropriate.
This post really caught my attention because in my Last play session this exact same spell vs monster came up in play.
(And I really like the spell. ) some things to remember about Moonbeam : it requires concentration to maintain and it doesn't cause damage when you cast it. The damage and save occur at the beginning of the subjects turn or when they enter the area of effect. So to do damage the same turn you cast it, you have to cast it next to your target and either be hasted or use action surge to get an extra action to shove your target into the area of effect.
I've read the spell. I do understand the mechanics as written. Hence the post.
Nah, the "if your DM ruled it that way that's how it is" shit doesn't fly with me. If a DM is gonna houserule RAW they need to be upfront about it before the situation and not spring it on a player mid session. If the DM has a problem with the RAW they can approach the player after the game to discuss it. The "DM is god" mentality is an incredibly toxic mentality that only control freaks play by.
(And I really like the spell. ) some things to remember about Moonbeam : it requires concentration to maintain and it doesn't cause damage when you cast it. The damage and save occur at the beginning of the subjects turn or when they enter the area of effect. So to do damage the same turn you cast it, you have to cast it next to your target and either be hasted or use action surge to get an extra action to shove your target into the area of effect.
The GM ruling is off-putting but they are the GM. You can talk about after the game.
Regarding Moonbeam doing damage during the current round, if the target has their turn after you, then they take damage the same round.
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"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
I would rule the same way as DM because of the line, “shines down in a 5 foot radius, 40 foot tall cylinder”. To me that indicates that there has to be 40 feet above the ground for Moonbeam to work. The same with Call Lightning, it needs a path to the open sky to work.
But there are other great spells for Druids to use when they’re inside.
I would rule the same way as DM because of the line, “shines down in a 5 foot radius, 40 foot tall cylinder”. To me that indicates that there has to be 40 feet above the ground for Moonbeam to work. The same with Call Lightning, it needs a path to the open sky to work.
But there are other great spells for Druids to use when they’re inside.
The default is that any spell with an area of effect can be cast in an area smaller than its maximum size, it just can't spread out any further. The only time that isn't true is if the spell description specifically says otherwise, like Call Lightning's.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
When the DM makes a call that is different from how you understand the rules, it's ok to ask at the table. However, don't let it grow into an argument. Grit your teeth, play along, and address it later with the DM offline.
If they insist to apply rules contrary to your understanding (rightly or not), see if you can find a compromise. Maybe they let you learn another spell instead, for example.
I'm pretty sure 90% of the Dungeons players find themselves in don't have 40-foot tall ceilings, that would make Moonbeam pretty useless and mostly only usable outdoors, basically.
The way I read it, and want to use it, is that moonbeam can be usedin any space but it has an area affect that can reach 40' up (and thus affect flying creatures/characters) in a 5' radius.
If there is a roof the spell doesn't affect the area above the roof even if it's vertical area affect would work for the upper area above the ceiling. Similarly if the spell is cast from high up in a larger space (flying, on a ledge, roof, etc) the caster chooses the area of the 40' vertical affect just like any other area affect spell.
If the vertical area is separated by something (platform, curtain, dense vegetation) I could see the need for a negotiated affect area between caster and DM. This might possibly mean it only affects a 20' foot vertical area rather than 40.'
Does this sound rational , playable and within the scope of the spell as written?
I always measure from the floor up. If the ceiling is lower than 40 feet, that's as high as it goes. In other words, it originates at the ceiling whatever the height (less than 40 feet) and hits the floor.
I've never (so far) had a PC cast it in the sky above 40 feet. Probably because I don't have that many aerial encounters.
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"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
A spell's effect expands in straight lines from the point of origin. If no unblocked straight line extends from the point of origin to a location within the area of effect, that location isn't included in the spell's area. To block one of these imaginary lines, an obstruction must provide total cover.
A cylinder's point of origin is the center of a circle of a particular radius, as given in the spell description. The circle must either be on the ground or at the height of the spell effect. The energy in a cylinder expands in straight lines from the point of origin to the perimeter of the circle, forming the base of the cylinder. The spell's effect then shoots up from the base or down from the top, to a distance equal to the height of the cylinder.
A cylinder's point of origin is included in the cylinder's area of effect.
As the spell itself does not state anything else, the moonbeam originates as you described from the floor in the designated area and fills all possible space within its area of effect.
But as I wrote above, this is a discussion you should not have at the table.
A spell's effect expands in straight lines from the point of origin. If no unblocked straight line extends from the point of origin to a location within the area of effect, that location isn't included in the spell's area. To block one of these imaginary lines, an obstruction must provide total cover.
A cylinder's point of origin is the center of a circle of a particular radius, as given in the spell description. The circle must either be on the ground or at the height of the spell effect. The energy in a cylinder expands in straight lines from the point of origin to the perimeter of the circle, forming the base of the cylinder. The spell's effect then shoots up from the base or down from the top, to a distance equal to the height of the cylinder.
A cylinder's point of origin is included in the cylinder's area of effect.
As the spell itself does not state anything else, the moonbeam originates as you described from the floor in the designated area and fills all possible space within its area of effect.
But as I wrote above, this is a discussion you should not have at the table.
Thanks! This is very clear and rational. So that also could mean its origination point is at 60' if the caster is high or wants to hit something high and it drops down to 20' off of the ground.
As written, there are no limits for being able to see the sky with moonbeam, unlike call lightning. It should work. since it should affect only as much vertical elevation as the character can see. It'd be weird for things upstairs to get lasered to death by a druid casting moonbeam one or more floors downstairs.
I would rule the same way as DM because of the line, “shines down in a 5 foot radius, 40 foot tall cylinder”. To me that indicates that there has to be 40 feet above the ground for Moonbeam to work. The same with Call Lightning, it needs a path to the open sky to work.
But there are other great spells for Druids to use when they’re inside.
Would you rule the same with for example a fireball thrown into a room smaller than 40 feet in radius?
I would rule the same way as DM because of the line, “shines down in a 5 foot radius, 40 foot tall cylinder”. To me that indicates that there has to be 40 feet above the ground for Moonbeam to work. The same with Call Lightning, it needs a path to the open sky to work.
But there are other great spells for Druids to use when they’re inside.
Would you rule the same with for example a fireball thrown into a room smaller than 40 feet in radius?
Yeah, thats true. It wouldn't make sense for moonbeam not to work indoors but also allow fireball to work indoors. Although, if you are smart, you wouldn't be casting fireball in a room that has less than a 40 foot radius. However, if you do, the spell would still work.
I would rule the same way as DM because of the line, “shines down in a 5 foot radius, 40 foot tall cylinder”. To me that indicates that there has to be 40 feet above the ground for Moonbeam to work. The same with Call Lightning, it needs a path to the open sky to work.
But there are other great spells for Druids to use when they’re inside.
Would you rule the same with for example a fireball thrown into a room smaller than 40 feet in radius?
Yeah, thats true. It wouldn't make sense for moonbeam not to work indoors but also allow fireball to work indoors. Although, if you are smart, you wouldn't be casting fireball in a room that has less than a 40 foot radius. However, if you do, the spell would still work.
Well, as long as no-one you cared about is in the room... ;)
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Playing a 7th level Druid.
We're in a ship suspended by cranes in front of a warehouse and I go the side hatch to shoot a moonbeam at the Flesh Golem inside. The DM ruled the moonbeam doesn't work in an indoor space this small.
Everywhere I can find it seems that the moonbeam "should" work anywhere as there are no explicite restrictions due to indoor spaces or less than 40' ceilings.
Any thoughts or general understandings of the 40' piece of the spell as written (for our next session)? I'd like to be able to use this spell [C] to team with wildshape in any environment.
If your DM says it doesn't work, then it doesn't work.
While I don't read this spell as having the same size constraints as call lighting, my opinion doesn't matter. Once your DM has ruled, that's the way it is. Don't delay play by arguing, but you can discuss it with them after the game session.
Pretty much every rule in the book can vary from DM to DM, even in league play. If you find your DMs rulings too far from how you understand the game should be played, either find a new DM or run your own game.
Thanks. Looking for advice for the future. As always, I take the ruling in game and work it out later. This one seems due for more clarification since it's an important tool in the arsenal. Also since all posts I can find seem to contradict the interpretation.
Rule As Written, no volume constraints.
Rule as Played, what the DM says,
Rule As Fun: Spotlight on Talent! Don't just stand there, Do something!
This post really caught my attention because in my Last play session this exact same spell vs monster came up in play.
(And I really like the spell. ) some things to remember about Moonbeam : it requires concentration to maintain and it doesn't cause damage when you cast it. The damage and save occur at the beginning of the subjects turn or when they enter the area of effect. So to do damage the same turn you cast it, you have to cast it next to your target and either be hasted or use action surge to get an extra action to shove your target into the area of effect.
Nah, the "if your DM ruled it that way that's how it is" shit doesn't fly with me. If a DM is gonna houserule RAW they need to be upfront about it before the situation and not spring it on a player mid session. If the DM has a problem with the RAW they can approach the player after the game to discuss it. The "DM is god" mentality is an incredibly toxic mentality that only control freaks play by.
The GM ruling is off-putting but they are the GM. You can talk about after the game.
Regarding Moonbeam doing damage during the current round, if the target has their turn after you, then they take damage the same round.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
I would rule the same way as DM because of the line, “shines down in a 5 foot radius, 40 foot tall cylinder”. To me that indicates that there has to be 40 feet above the ground for Moonbeam to work. The same with Call Lightning, it needs a path to the open sky to work.
But there are other great spells for Druids to use when they’re inside.
Professional computer geek
The default is that any spell with an area of effect can be cast in an area smaller than its maximum size, it just can't spread out any further. The only time that isn't true is if the spell description specifically says otherwise, like Call Lightning's.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
When the DM makes a call that is different from how you understand the rules, it's ok to ask at the table. However, don't let it grow into an argument. Grit your teeth, play along, and address it later with the DM offline.
If they insist to apply rules contrary to your understanding (rightly or not), see if you can find a compromise. Maybe they let you learn another spell instead, for example.
More Interesting Lock Picking Rules
Yeah, Moonbeam's supposed to work indoors.
I'm pretty sure 90% of the Dungeons players find themselves in don't have 40-foot tall ceilings, that would make Moonbeam pretty useless and mostly only usable outdoors, basically.
I'm pretty sure Call Lightning is the only spell in which a certain space limit is required in order to cast the spell.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
Thanks for all of the responses.
The way I read it, and want to use it, is that moonbeam can be usedin any space but it has an area affect that can reach 40' up (and thus affect flying creatures/characters) in a 5' radius.
If there is a roof the spell doesn't affect the area above the roof even if it's vertical area affect would work for the upper area above the ceiling. Similarly if the spell is cast from high up in a larger space (flying, on a ledge, roof, etc) the caster chooses the area of the 40' vertical affect just like any other area affect spell.
If the vertical area is separated by something (platform, curtain, dense vegetation) I could see the need for a negotiated affect area between caster and DM. This might possibly mean it only affects a 20' foot vertical area rather than 40.'
Does this sound rational , playable and within the scope of the spell as written?
I always measure from the floor up. If the ceiling is lower than 40 feet, that's as high as it goes. In other words, it originates at the ceiling whatever the height (less than 40 feet) and hits the floor.
I've never (so far) had a PC cast it in the sky above 40 feet. Probably because I don't have that many aerial encounters.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
Moonbeam is an area of effect spell, which uses the cylinder shape.
As the spell itself does not state anything else, the moonbeam originates as you described from the floor in the designated area and fills all possible space within its area of effect.
But as I wrote above, this is a discussion you should not have at the table.
More Interesting Lock Picking Rules
Thanks! This is very clear and rational. So that also could mean its origination point is at 60' if the caster is high or wants to hit something high and it drops down to 20' off of the ground.
As written, there are no limits for being able to see the sky with moonbeam, unlike call lightning. It should work. since it should affect only as much vertical elevation as the character can see. It'd be weird for things upstairs to get lasered to death by a druid casting moonbeam one or more floors downstairs.
Would you rule the same with for example a fireball thrown into a room smaller than 40 feet in radius?
Yeah, thats true. It wouldn't make sense for moonbeam not to work indoors but also allow fireball to work indoors. Although, if you are smart, you wouldn't be casting fireball in a room that has less than a 40 foot radius. However, if you do, the spell would still work.
Well, as long as no-one you cared about is in the room... ;)