Just to clarify, the sharing or 'publication' of created homebrew is not gated at all. All players will be able to publish homebrew content, regardless of paid/free account status. The subscription will be required to 'subscribe' to published homebrew - add it to one's campaign...
That point did elude me! Oops.
Hmn...I feel a bit better about it. But in this case I still feel like using (public) homebrew content should be a one-time payment at most.
I wouldn't mind paying a subscription similar to what I pay for Netflix, Spotify -- that sort of thing (8-12$ a month, discounts for longer intervals 3-mo 6-mo, yearly). However, having bought the 5E books already for my ongoing campaign, I really have no interest in buying them all again unless they're going to offer PDFs that I would be able to actually own and be able to download to my devices (kindle, iPad, etc). Paying another 35-50$ per book just to access its content via this website -- sure the character builder and maker's are all fantastic, but I can do the same with a pen and pencil or in an excel tab or even using the Homebrewery.
Since content will continue to be released, I'd rather pay a sub for access to it all, and for my players to access it all as well. If they go with the model of purchasing each book's content separately through this website, at least send me another physical copy of the book. Those at least I can use when my internet goes out or I go camping and we play around a fire.
Sell a package that includes up to all of the following: physical book, PDF, DNDbeyond access -- even that would be great. While I tend to buy my books at my local comic store, if I can also get a PDF of the book for my devices offline, and access to the content via this website online I'd be ecstatic
The physical code thing is very unrealistic. Look at how many gamers don't even blink at the idea of stealing PDFs. Snapping a picture of the code from the book in the store is even easier. People steal gift cards the same way.
Setting up something for stores to request codes when a purchase is made is another level of overhead for stores. If Wizards doesn't trust its customers enough to sell them PDFs then they're going to require a frustrating level of policing and verification for a system like that. It also requires a level of caring that some stores don't possess. One store jumped at the idea of using Bits and Mortar, another store signed up but didn't care enough to figure out how to get me the PDFs.
Stealing gift cards happens as often as voter fraud (that is to say it's practically unheard of, mostly because it's just not worth the effort). You can steal the physical card but until it's activated at the POS, it's a piece of plastic with no value. That same system could easily be leveraged by essentially slapping a gift card code on the inside back cover of every D&D book. You take it to the register and pay for it, the cashier scans the "gift card" and your code is activated. Just like every gift card you buy anywhere.
In fact, they could do one better. The book costs $50 and comes with the digital card. Don't need the book and just want to buy the digital content? Okay. Either buy it from WotC directly or go to your local game store and buy the PHB digital redemption card for $35 (and that could conceivably include an emailed coupon for $15 dollars off the printed book). Just like the Steam Wallet and World of Warcraft cards you see at Target. If Wizards is really devoted to providing a convenient digital product in an attempt to make the game more accessible, I can't think of a better way to do it than to reduce the price of the digital product. The infrastructure already exists; there's no need to re-invent the wheel with a complicated redemption scheme via a separate middle-man clearing house (like Bits and Mortar).
I wouldn't mind paying a subscription similar to what I pay for Netflix, Spotify -- that sort of thing (8-12$ a month, discounts for longer intervals 3-mo 6-mo, yearly). However, having bought the 5E books already for my ongoing campaign, I really have no interest in buying them all again unless they're going to offer PDFs that I would be able to actually own and be able to download to my devices (kindle, iPad, etc). Paying another 35-50$ per book just to access its content via this website -- sure the character builder and maker's are all fantastic, but I can do the same with a pen and pencil or in an excel tab or even using the Homebrewery.
Since content will continue to be released, I'd rather pay a sub for access to it all, and for my players to access it all as well. If they go with the model of purchasing each book's content separately through this website, at least send me another physical copy of the book. Those at least I can use when my internet goes out or I go camping and we play around a fire.
Sell a package that includes up to all of the following: physical book, PDF, DNDbeyond access -- even that would be great. While I tend to buy my books at my local comic store, if I can also get a PDF of the book for my devices offline, and access to the content via this website online I'd be ecstatic
I think one of the biggest concerns I have -and obviously others, too- is that I would have to pay for all the books I own again. I own the basic stuff ( PHB, DMG, Volos) and most of the campaign books and I wouldn't want to pay for them again (because ~30$ per book would result in 200$ in no time for stuff I own already).
What I would pay for is access to the content through a monthly subscription (1 month, 3 months, 6...and so on). This way I'm able to unsubscribe if I won't have a campaign for some time and resubscribe if I start a new one. And I wouldn't pay "double".
As far as access to the different tiers on Beyond, I'd be fine paying a subscription. As far as the books content, the code idea is totally what I was hoping for. I love owning all of the physical books, and would want access through Beyond, but would rather not pay full price twice. Marvel comics uses this model, and I like it. For those concerned with codes getting stolen, Marvel puts a "peel off" cover over the code, or plastic wrap on hard covers. I think this would be great and fair. Then have a subscription tier option for full access that includes the books for those who don't buy the hardbound copies, too? Thanks!
In terms of being able to purchase content I don't own through DnDBeyond, I think that would be excellent (assuming it would basically be an ebook/PDF hosted on the site/app). I think it would be nice if here was a way of verifying that I own my current books; the easiest way I can think of would be a one-time code that's bundled with the book when bought. I understand that retroactively doing this would be very inconvenient, but I think with books bought off of Amazon, it might not be too hard, it would be game stores that it would be most difficult with (they might not have records of exactly who bought which book and when, etc). Even if it was started with Tomb of Annihilation and/or Xanathar's Guide to Everything, I think it could be useful.
As for subscription vs one time purchase, I think I would prefer a one-time purchase, but I think an extra poll or two could be used for how much would be considered 'reasonable' for a subscription or for a one-time purchase. I know a one-time purchase of $10 or less would be considered definitely worth it (for me, at least), and I would seriously consider using the service if it would something along the lines of a single drop of $40-45, but I'd find it difficult to justify with much higher (personally). I'm not sure what I'd consider 'reasonable' for a subscription, maybe $5 a month, with a possible yearly option for $50, perhaps?
That's my opinion on the matter, but things are looking good, I can't wait for more content to be added.
"I know a one-time purchase of $10 or less would be considered definitely worth it (for me, at least), and I would seriously consider using the service if it would something along the lines of a single drop of $40-45, but I'd find it difficult to justify with much higher (personally). I'm not sure what I'd consider 'reasonable' for a subscription, maybe $5 a month, with a possible yearly option for $50, perhaps?"
Do you even play D&D? I assume with the numbers you've given you've never bought a D&D book in your life and just download ripped PDFs from the internet. $50 a year barely even covers the hardcover cost of one D&D book. Let alone the fact that they'd have to translate it into data and then code for the site (being able to hard link an item or monster to its stats)...
I spend more than $50 a year on paper and supplies to run my games... If D&D Beyond can replace all that and more than it's well worth more than a hundred dollars a year. Of course, this is all dependant on whether or not D&D Beyond is gonna be useful more so over other options out there and right now it's lost a lot of excitement for me :(
"I know a one-time purchase of $10 or less would be considered definitely worth it (for me, at least), and I would seriously consider using the service if it would something along the lines of a single drop of $40-45, but I'd find it difficult to justify with much higher (personally). I'm not sure what I'd consider 'reasonable' for a subscription, maybe $5 a month, with a possible yearly option for $50, perhaps?"
Do you even play D&D? I assume with the numbers you've given you've never bought a D&D book in your life and just download ripped PDFs from the internet. $50 a year barely even covers the hardcover cost of one D&D book. Let alone the fact that they'd have to translate it into data and then code for the site (being able to hard link an item or monster to its stats)...
I spend more than $50 a year on paper and supplies to run my games... If D&D Beyond can replace all that and more than it's well worth more than a hundred dollars a year. Of course, this is all dependant on whether or not D&D Beyond is gonna be useful more so over other options out there and right now it's lost a lot of excitement for me :(
If I had to purchase everything again (Player's Handbook, Dungeon Master's Guide, Monster Manual, Volo's Guide to Monsters, Curse of Strahd, Sword King's Thunder, Tales from the Yawning Portal, and Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide, all bought via Amazon or the game store I typically play/DM at) a further subscription/purchase cost for DDBeyond would be less appealing. As someone who's studying computer science, I understand how the whole 'translate it into data and code for the site' works (in the abstract, at least). I've even played around with attempting to make my own character creator & item table programs; nothing majorly complex, but a lot of monotonous coding required. Now, none of what I've done is anywhere close to what they've already got working, but I understand (vaguely) what sort of thing they're doing here.
My numbers are coming from a standpoint of me being someone who uses a chessex mat, wet-erase markers, and WotC's pre-painted minis (because I'm not artistic, ok?), someone who buys 2-3 books a year, and I'm fine with doing so, because I like the content, my players like the content, and it's all good fun. Most of the cost for producing something like this comes at the beginning, to pay the people to create (code) this whole thing; after it's made, most of the costs will be from maintaining and/or upgrading servers, keeping some staff to help fix any bugs/issues that are found, and any advertising they feel like doing. That is, of course, assuming they have a point where they say 'ok, that's it, that's all the content.' With that being unlikely, they'd obviously need people to continue to add new books' content to the app (where applicable). So at the absolute least, they need enough to cover the cost for the servers, add to that people in the IT department, add costs for new servers and equipment (servers can only hold so much, after all), and people adding content, it's a decent list of costs and they need to make a bit more on top of that, it's called capitalism. For $100 a year, I think I would want something more than just being able to make more than 6 characters, and I would really dislike having to re-buy everything I have already.
Cross-posting the relevant parts of this comment I made on the Character sheets and creation, because the cost of the product is linked intrinsically to how much it does for me.
I envision myself using this service for smooth character sheet management. It would be nice to have a pricing option that reflects this. I would consider 5 to 10$/month for this if it worked really smoothly. I already own all the books, so if it doesn't save me time on character management, I wouldn't be a customer. And if I have to pay 10$+(or the full price) to add a book (OotA) to my subscription so that I can add Dawnbringer to my character sheet - that isn't saving me time or adding value, that feels like getting ripped off.
I love paper books, paper character sheets, real dice, and I prefer for my players to play with them too. Once the phones come out, I feel the focus drift and the quality of the game is lower. The website so far is full of useful information and very pretty. For this system to be viable as a cost-add system, this kind of automation needs to be built in to ease the pain point of looking things up in the books we already own. It needs to be easier to use this site/app to create and manage characters and campaigns than the freely available paper sheets or existing SRD content managers, and I'm excited for that possibility. I think there's lots of potential for this, but I'm not seeing the ease-of-use I'd want to be in place before paying for it. This is beta I fully acknowledge, so I expect there are plans to address most of this.
Managing character sheets needs work. Some examples of user frustrations I ran across:
(see my other post on the other mega thread, I'm trying to keep this one short and spiffy and value-focussed)
Also, I'm surprised to see some of the resource management tools on here (ie tracking spell slots). Frankly, if I'm going to use a computer-based solution for resource management, it needs to support the full gameplay like roll20 - maps, notes, dicerolling, etcetcetc. I'm sure there are people who would find this useful, who have a different use case than mine. My use case is to setup characters on here, print them every few levels, and auto-populate a nicely laid-out printable character sheet with the official information in a few clicks when I level up my character. My resource management will be handled by ye olde pencil.
I wouldn't pay any more than a few dollars a month. You have to take into consideration the frequency of your games and we only play once a month, twice on a good month. That means the monthly cost turns into the cost per game and quite frankly I pay that much to play each session.
If prices are anything like roll20 i won't be paying a thing. I have already bought the phb, mm, dmg, scag and vollos guide hard copies. As well as PotA and HotDQ, and the beginner box and then digitally bought storm king's thunder. I have already spent way more then i wanted on books alone then having roll20 trying to price these at the full retail price of the hard copy with no extra bells and whistles. Artwork is the same as is used in the books, tokens are poorly made. Now this, i swear to god if they try and sell me phb unlock for 50 bucks... ill be doing everything the old fashion way
btw one of the perks of this hobby is no matter how much time passes, your books are always still good. Web based services are only as good as long as the service lasts and performs adequately and you have an internet connection. Sub rates drop, site cant sustain itself and starts acting slow so rates drop even more. Eventually its taken down, thanks for playing. Now everyone who only owned web versions are shit out of luck. Even pdfs on drivethrurpg are much much cheaper than a physical copy. usually 10-20 bucks
I know this is not a unique statement here - but the pricing of this tool is a make-or-break decision for me. While I like the promise of the features laid out here if it is close to the same price as the physical books plus a subscription there is no way I'll be on board with this.
I fear that it will be that way, however. If you look at MTGO (also WotC), the prices between the digital packs and real packs are so close that it's impossible to play both unless you are outlaying tons of cash for it.
The subscription is not mandatory. You can buy the digital copy of any book for an one-time payment.
It's not *just* the subscription that a lot of people are annoyed about. Having to buy a $50 book again (at full cost) just to be able to use it online is kind of a stupid thing to ask of a normal person.
The subscription is not mandatory. You can buy the digital copy of any book for an one-time payment.
It's not *just* the subscription that a lot of people are annoyed about. Having to buy a $50 book again (at full cost) just to be able to use it online is kind of a stupid thing to ask of a normal person.
No official pricing about the digital books has been announced so far.
The subscription is not mandatory. You can buy the digital copy of any book for an one-time payment.
It's not *just* the subscription that a lot of people are annoyed about. Having to buy a $50 book again (at full cost) just to be able to use it online is kind of a stupid thing to ask of a normal person.
No official pricing about the digital books has been announced so far.
While no official pricing has been announced, Adam Bradford (aka BadEye) said that sourcebook content would be at a discount on DDB in an article of Dragon+. No news on what the discounted price will be, but I don't think there's any cause to worry about having to pay $50 sourcebook content. The quote from the linked article is below.
"Players will also have flexibility when purchasing digital content. You can buy the content at the sourcebook level for a discount, but some content will also be bundled in smaller packages, including down to individual elements. If you want to use the tabaxi race but don't want to buy the entire Volo's Guide to Monsters, you will be able to purchase the tabaxi by itself."
On a slightly related note, whatever the official prices turn out to be, it will not be for you to purchase a book again. It will be to purchase the content of that book converted into a digital format and coded specifically to function seamlessly with the many different aspects of DDB. To refer to purchasing DDB content as "buying the book again" is a bit like saying buying the Harry Potter books is the same as buying the Harry Potter 4k Ultra HD movies.
I wouldn't mind paying a subscription similar to what I pay for Netflix, Spotify -- that sort of thing (8-12$ a month, discounts for longer intervals 3-mo 6-mo, yearly). However, having bought the 5E books already for my ongoing campaign, I really have no interest in buying them all again unless they're going to offer PDFs that I would be able to actually own and be able to download to my devices (kindle, iPad, etc). Paying another 35-50$ per book just to access its content via this website -- sure the character builder and maker's are all fantastic, but I can do the same with a pen and pencil or in an excel tab or even using the Homebrewery.
Since content will continue to be released, I'd rather pay a sub for access to it all, and for my players to access it all as well. If they go with the model of purchasing each book's content separately through this website, at least send me another physical copy of the book. Those at least I can use when my internet goes out or I go camping and we play around a fire.
Sell a package that includes up to all of the following: physical book, PDF, DNDbeyond access -- even that would be great. While I tend to buy my books at my local comic store, if I can also get a PDF of the book for my devices offline, and access to the content via this website online I'd be ecstatic
One time fee really works for me as long as it includes all core material.
Extra fees for additional material seems acceptable.
Subscriptions are annoying.
I think one of the biggest concerns I have -and obviously others, too- is that I would have to pay for all the books I own again. I own the basic stuff ( PHB, DMG, Volos) and most of the campaign books and I wouldn't want to pay for them again (because ~30$ per book would result in 200$ in no time for stuff I own already).
What I would pay for is access to the content through a monthly subscription (1 month, 3 months, 6...and so on). This way I'm able to unsubscribe if I won't have a campaign for some time and resubscribe if I start a new one. And I wouldn't pay "double".
While this seems like a awesome idea I definitely don't want to have to buy the books I own again.
As far as access to the different tiers on Beyond, I'd be fine paying a subscription. As far as the books content, the code idea is totally what I was hoping for. I love owning all of the physical books, and would want access through Beyond, but would rather not pay full price twice. Marvel comics uses this model, and I like it. For those concerned with codes getting stolen, Marvel puts a "peel off" cover over the code, or plastic wrap on hard covers. I think this would be great and fair. Then have a subscription tier option for full access that includes the books for those who don't buy the hardbound copies, too? Thanks!
My personal opinion is thus:
In terms of being able to purchase content I don't own through DnDBeyond, I think that would be excellent (assuming it would basically be an ebook/PDF hosted on the site/app). I think it would be nice if here was a way of verifying that I own my current books; the easiest way I can think of would be a one-time code that's bundled with the book when bought. I understand that retroactively doing this would be very inconvenient, but I think with books bought off of Amazon, it might not be too hard, it would be game stores that it would be most difficult with (they might not have records of exactly who bought which book and when, etc). Even if it was started with Tomb of Annihilation and/or Xanathar's Guide to Everything, I think it could be useful.
As for subscription vs one time purchase, I think I would prefer a one-time purchase, but I think an extra poll or two could be used for how much would be considered 'reasonable' for a subscription or for a one-time purchase. I know a one-time purchase of $10 or less would be considered definitely worth it (for me, at least), and I would seriously consider using the service if it would something along the lines of a single drop of $40-45, but I'd find it difficult to justify with much higher (personally). I'm not sure what I'd consider 'reasonable' for a subscription, maybe $5 a month, with a possible yearly option for $50, perhaps?
That's my opinion on the matter, but things are looking good, I can't wait for more content to be added.
Do you even play D&D? I assume with the numbers you've given you've never bought a D&D book in your life and just download ripped PDFs from the internet. $50 a year barely even covers the hardcover cost of one D&D book. Let alone the fact that they'd have to translate it into data and then code for the site (being able to hard link an item or monster to its stats)...
I spend more than $50 a year on paper and supplies to run my games... If D&D Beyond can replace all that and more than it's well worth more than a hundred dollars a year. Of course, this is all dependant on whether or not D&D Beyond is gonna be useful more so over other options out there and right now it's lost a lot of excitement for me :(
Cross-posting the relevant parts of this comment I made on the Character sheets and creation, because the cost of the product is linked intrinsically to how much it does for me.
I envision myself using this service for smooth character sheet management. It would be nice to have a pricing option that reflects this. I would consider 5 to 10$/month for this if it worked really smoothly. I already own all the books, so if it doesn't save me time on character management, I wouldn't be a customer. And if I have to pay 10$+(or the full price) to add a book (OotA) to my subscription so that I can add Dawnbringer to my character sheet - that isn't saving me time or adding value, that feels like getting ripped off.
Hope this is useful!
I wouldn't pay any more than a few dollars a month. You have to take into consideration the frequency of your games and we only play once a month, twice on a good month. That means the monthly cost turns into the cost per game and quite frankly I pay that much to play each session.
Daplunk's YouTube Channel: Realm Works and Hero Lab Videos / Campaign Cartographer 3+ Videos
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I'm still waiting on pricing for rulebooks.
If prices are anything like roll20 i won't be paying a thing. I have already bought the phb, mm, dmg, scag and vollos guide hard copies. As well as PotA and HotDQ, and the beginner box and then digitally bought storm king's thunder. I have already spent way more then i wanted on books alone then having roll20 trying to price these at the full retail price of the hard copy with no extra bells and whistles. Artwork is the same as is used in the books, tokens are poorly made. Now this, i swear to god if they try and sell me phb unlock for 50 bucks... ill be doing everything the old fashion way
btw one of the perks of this hobby is no matter how much time passes, your books are always still good. Web based services are only as good as long as the service lasts and performs adequately and you have an internet connection. Sub rates drop, site cant sustain itself and starts acting slow so rates drop even more. Eventually its taken down, thanks for playing. Now everyone who only owned web versions are shit out of luck. Even pdfs on drivethrurpg are much much cheaper than a physical copy. usually 10-20 bucks
I know this is not a unique statement here - but the pricing of this tool is a make-or-break decision for me. While I like the promise of the features laid out here if it is close to the same price as the physical books plus a subscription there is no way I'll be on board with this.
I fear that it will be that way, however. If you look at MTGO (also WotC), the prices between the digital packs and real packs are so close that it's impossible to play both unless you are outlaying tons of cash for it.
The subscription is not mandatory. You can buy the digital copy of any book for an one-time payment.
On a slightly related note, whatever the official prices turn out to be, it will not be for you to purchase a book again. It will be to purchase the content of that book converted into a digital format and coded specifically to function seamlessly with the many different aspects of DDB. To refer to purchasing DDB content as "buying the book again" is a bit like saying buying the Harry Potter books is the same as buying the Harry Potter 4k Ultra HD movies.
Totally agreed.