Despite playing D&D and spending a lot of my time thinking about it, I'm not much into fantasy, and I don't know a great deal about any of the 'lore' of the settings. After deciding I want to run RotFM however, I've gotten more interested in the Forgotten Realms, and I was thinking of checking out some of the R.A Salvatore novels. This is particularly so after seeing the Drizzt books #7 to #33 are currently up on Humble Bundle as eBooks.
I had a couple questions for people who know more about the fiction written in Forgotten Realms: Are there really that many books about this one character, and are they worth reading? I doubt anyone here would know for sure, but is there a likely reason why books #1-6 aren't available in this bundle? Starting from book 7 feels like it might be a bit of a bummer if I'm really going to dive into this.
I enjoyed the first 2 trilogies about Drizzt. I agree the writing is not great, but it's a great experience with very cool moments. The one in the Underdark was something different and interesting, as it's based on the drow society and most of the characters are evil. Further books start to get worse in my opinion
I also enjoyed a lot the books where the protagonist are Artemis Entreri and/or Jarlaxle, they're more an anti-hero type characters.
You have to keep in mind that the books are very light, which sometimes is welcome but in general they're far away from the modern Fantasy books in terms of quality or character development.
Salvatore's Icewind Dale trilogy are the best Dungeons and Dragons books ever written.
Hmmm... Honestly, even with fairly fond memories of them, I still have trouble to see how this started Salvatore's career, unless it's because of all these people being fascinated by drows. It was not that well written, some characters are really ridiculous and over the top, the plot is really artificial and the villains not that interesting, apart maybe from Artemis (which I always had trouble with because Artemis has and should have remained the goddes of the hunt, not a male assassin). But then, compared to most of the other novels produced especially the plethora of really poor ones in the FR, I suppose that it floats towards the top.
It was frustrating to me at the time because there was so much extraordinarily good fantasy around, when the D&D one was really really bad. Even the Weis and Hickman had some interesting concepts now and then, but were not that well executed and were so looooong. I certainly can't say I've read them all, as I grew bored with them, but still...
The only ones that I remember with some fondness are Azure Bonds and the following ones, the Wyvern's Spur and Song of the Saurials but even there I can't say I remember why...
I see what you mean. I mentioned "best d&d". It's certainly no where near best fantasy.
Salvatore's mention of menzo moved me to purchase the menzo box set (and run a campaign in it). His take on drow and all things underdark were the catalyst for delving into that space.
He isn't the greatest author and agreed, it's probably more nostalgia than impeccable writing.
Howard, tolkien, herbert, and even the art of frazetta sparked my d&d imagination more, but I can't think of any other novels that took me from book, directly into some sort of gameplay. He was the first for me at least.
If you're interested in running Rime of the Frost Maiden I think you could find "The Crystal Shard" somewhat useful for some lore on the region. With the whole Covid-19 quarantine I had way too much time on my hand and decided to read the rest of Salvatore's Drizzt books after reading a lot of them as a kid and enjoying them back then. I figured I could get some more lore on the Sword Coast etc with the 5th edition adventures my group has been playing, but in my opinion these books are pretty much trash. Yeah, there is some lore in them but having to wade through all those books wasn't worth it and it really got to be quite the chore to do. I honestly find it amazing that he has managed to turn that book into something like a 30 year career of trash novels.
I started re-reading a Crystal Shard ... it did not hold up well. Only made it through I think the first three chapters. I think I started but never finished it's sequel (Halfling Gem?). But yeah, I don't understand how a character considered an icon to the game's lore (even people who don't know what the Forgotten Realms are have heard of Drizzt) grew out of that work.
Your mileage may vary. There's actually a blogger who is reading D&D novels, maybe even focusing on Forgotten Realms novels, and doing sort of retro reviews if you want to get a spoiler filled sense of what you'd be getting into (I don't think he's found a good one yet, but I think he's only done three). His review of Crystal Shard I think is largely valid.
What I don't get is how TSR editorial even went with his writing. I mean they published the Dragon Lance books before this ... and I know Dragonlance is considered highly derivative itself but the writing was just better. Could be a market thing too. I think I remember reading TSR wasn't really a fair rate payer for fiction writing (other outlets would pay more), and I remember there was some falling out between TSR and Hickman and Weis, so it could just be TSR fiction got what it paid for. There's also the whole Dungeons Masters are not necessarily good fiction writers. There's overlaps in the craft, but they are distinct crafts.
Bricken's review of Darkwalker on Moonshae is a better hoot, which is funny because also not "great" it was a better novel than Crystal Shard, at least I thought so a few decades ago.
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Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
I've been a Forgotten Realms fan for years, and I'm one of those people that is really any for the lore. I enjoy learning about what is canon (I know, I know, that's a loaded term in D&D), and I was introduced to the setting via the novels. I think there are a little over 300 books set in the Realms, and yes, 33 (with some spin-offs) of them are part of the Drizzt saga (Relentless just came out in July). Salvatore initially said he picked Icewind Dale as the setting for the first Drizzt trilogy because that was an area of Faerun that hadn't been developed at the time, so he kind of had free reign with it.
Forgotten Realms is a setting that is detailed in lore and history, and I personally have enjoyed the novels, particularly those by Elaine Cunningham. She is great for elf and non-Lolthite drow lore. Some of the earlier setting novels do have a kind of..."gamey" feel to them, for lack of a better way of putting it, but they get better later on. As for the Drizzt books themselves being worth the read...if you're looking for lore, no. As I said, he did help develop Icewind Dale, so maybe a bit for that, and he helped with Menzo too, but RAS has a tendency to do his own thing (which has led to some limited understanding of the world by people who have only read the Drizzt books). So if you really want to dive into the setting, I would read other novels or source books. I wouldn't call any of the novels set in the Realms stellar, top-notch fantasy, but they're fun, and they do help you explore the world. The Realms novels were often used to help launch a new edition and tell about big events (Time of Troubles, Spellplague, Second Sundering, etc).
The Drizzt books have a very solid fan following (honestly, the fan mentality for them is a bit scary at times). They are probably the most popular among the FR novels, which, don't get me wrong, Drizzt is cool, and he was my introduction to the Realms as well, but they overshadow some other really good Realms series, imho, and again, if you want lore, the Drizzt books aren't the best for them. There are other Forgotten Realms novels that are better for it, though the early Drizzt books are the best for Icewind Dale.
I've been reading fantasy most of my life, so a way to get me into a setting is novels lol. Again, I would not call any of the Realms novels top level fantasy, but they were used to help move the setting along for a while (some more than others, and again, the earlier novels do have a "gamey" feel to them).
I want to riff on this last note and say when I want to digest lore, I go to that site. When I want to passively digest lore while doing dishes, I go to YouTube, there's quite a compendium of "lore compilers" who put together some pretty nifty slideshows of art work and such as they lecture. Some are better than others, and a lot don't seem to worry about internal inconsistencies, while others will point them out. But yeah, the novels never got a purchase into me after reading about three of them.
I want to riff on this last note and say when I want to digest lore, I go to that site. When I want to passively digest lore while doing dishes, I go to YouTube, there's quite a compendium of "lore compilers" who put together some pretty nifty slideshows of art work and such as they lecture. Some are better than others, and a lot don't seem to worry about internal inconsistencies, while others will point them out. But yeah, the novels never got a purchase into me after reading about three of them.
I really loved a good amount of the novels. They got me into D&D lore. Not just the Drizzt books, but all the other books set in the Realms. As I said though, a lot of the "classic" novels do have a gamey feel to them. Some of the later novels, like Brimstone Angels, Erevis Cale, Last Mythal trilogy, etc, read much better, and are great lore mines. But some of the earlier ones are also fun. Not stellar writing, but I have enjoyed them. I've fallen out of the love with the Drizzt saga, but I do miss the FR novel line as a whole.
That said, the FR wiki is often a great place to look up lore if you're trying to find information quickly, and they provide references to novels and source books if you want to pursue more.
Ok, I"ll keep an open mind on the Forgotten Realms fiction front. Is Bruce Cordell's Abolethic Sovereignty series considered FR lore, and is it any good? I like his Illthiad and supporting modules trilogy, was wondering about the novels.
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Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Thanks for the information and opinions in the subject, everyone. It seems like there is a fairly unanimous opinion on the subject, being that the books are a mostly a bit of pulp-y fun, but not especially great stories likely to inspire revolutionary better DMing for the campaign. It's been a long time since I last read a book (shamefully), but I do feel inspired to pick one up again now regardless.. I think I might just make it an Ursula Le Guin one instead, for now. :)
I feel a discussion about FR lore and books is incomplete without mentioning Erin M. Evans "Brimstone Angels"-series. It is absolutely excellent for everything related to dragonborn, tieflings, and recent events during and since the Sundering.
Salvatore's Icewind Dale trilogy are the best Dungeons and Dragons books ever written.
(Dragonlance is better, IMHO.)
Same. LotR is the ultimate tho...
You know that this is highly debatable, and subject to individual taste. right ? :D
It was indeed my first "D&D" Book, but although I enjoy it immensely, it's not my favorite... In terms of D&D, I would recommend Vlad Taltos (indispensible for high level), Black Company, Wizard of Earthsea, Malazan, Kingkiller, Wheel of Time, Magican, and almost everything by Gemmel or Sanderson, at the very least. :D
I mean, of course it is subjective. I never said it wasn't, it is obviously my opinion.
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“I will take responsibility for what I have done. [...] If must fall, I will rise each time a better man.” ― Brandon Sanderson, Oathbringer.
Salvatore's Icewind Dale trilogy are the best Dungeons and Dragons books ever written.
(Dragonlance is better, IMHO.)
Same. LotR is the ultimate tho...
You know that this is highly debatable, and subject to individual taste. right ? :D
It was indeed my first "D&D" Book, but although I enjoy it immensely, it's not my favorite... In terms of D&D, I would recommend Vlad Taltos (indispensible for high level), Black Company, Wizard of Earthsea, Malazan, Kingkiller, Wheel of Time, Magican, and almost everything by Gemmel or Sanderson, at the very least. :D
I mean, of course it is subjective. I never said it wasn't, it is obviously my opinion.
I was jsut teasing, don't worry. :D
ahh ok.
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“I will take responsibility for what I have done. [...] If must fall, I will rise each time a better man.” ― Brandon Sanderson, Oathbringer.
Salvatore's Icewind Dale trilogy are the best Dungeons and Dragons books ever written.
(Dragonlance is better, IMHO.)
Same. LotR is the ultimate tho...
You know that this is highly debatable, and subject to individual taste. right ? :D
It was indeed my first "D&D" Book, but although I enjoy it immensely, it's not my favorite... In terms of D&D, I would recommend Vlad Taltos (indispensible for high level), Black Company, Wizard of Earthsea, Malazan, Kingkiller, Wheel of Time, Magican, and almost everything by Gemmel or Sanderson, at the very least. :D
I can second Wheel of Time, Sanderson, and Malazan. I have read most of the other books you stated, but I personally think those three are the best.
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A fool pulls the leaves. A brute chops the trunk. A sage digs the roots.
Yes, absolutely. The saga of Drizzt and his Companions is fantastic imo. Are there lulls in the series? Yeah, but keep in mind dudes been writing these books since the late 80s. Not all of them are gonna be classics. In particular I wasn't thrilled with how the transition from third to fourth edition was handled in the narrative of Drizzt but Salvatore has made it pretty clear both him and Greenwood were opposed to the way that transition was handled and immediately started writing how they were gonna retcon it when they got a chance. I just finished "Relentless" which is the most recent, and perhaps the very last, Drizzt book and it was great. Salvatore writes a pretty good action scene and it was full of emotional highs and lows that resonated with the entire four decade long saga. Then there's the added benefit of them helping flesh out the region of the Sword Coast, and especially Icewind Dale. They aren't long reads and if you like them you can probably finish a book in a day. If you have a spare day go grab "The Crystal Shard" and spend a Saturday with it. If you don't like them you are out one day but if you do you suddenly have like 40 some odd books to read. Seems like a great opportunity for not so little cost imo.
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Despite playing D&D and spending a lot of my time thinking about it, I'm not much into fantasy, and I don't know a great deal about any of the 'lore' of the settings. After deciding I want to run RotFM however, I've gotten more interested in the Forgotten Realms, and I was thinking of checking out some of the R.A Salvatore novels. This is particularly so after seeing the Drizzt books #7 to #33 are currently up on Humble Bundle as eBooks.
I had a couple questions for people who know more about the fiction written in Forgotten Realms: Are there really that many books about this one character, and are they worth reading? I doubt anyone here would know for sure, but is there a likely reason why books #1-6 aren't available in this bundle? Starting from book 7 feels like it might be a bit of a bummer if I'm really going to dive into this.
Salvatore's Icewind Dale trilogy are the best Dungeons and Dragons books ever written.
All things Lich - DM tips, tricks, and other creative shenanigans
I enjoyed the first 2 trilogies about Drizzt. I agree the writing is not great, but it's a great experience with very cool moments. The one in the Underdark was something different and interesting, as it's based on the drow society and most of the characters are evil. Further books start to get worse in my opinion
I also enjoyed a lot the books where the protagonist are Artemis Entreri and/or Jarlaxle, they're more an anti-hero type characters.
You have to keep in mind that the books are very light, which sometimes is welcome but in general they're far away from the modern Fantasy books in terms of quality or character development.
I see what you mean. I mentioned "best d&d". It's certainly no where near best fantasy.
Salvatore's mention of menzo moved me to purchase the menzo box set (and run a campaign in it). His take on drow and all things underdark were the catalyst for delving into that space.
He isn't the greatest author and agreed, it's probably more nostalgia than impeccable writing.
Howard, tolkien, herbert, and even the art of frazetta sparked my d&d imagination more, but I can't think of any other novels that took me from book, directly into some sort of gameplay. He was the first for me at least.
All things Lich - DM tips, tricks, and other creative shenanigans
If you're interested in running Rime of the Frost Maiden I think you could find "The Crystal Shard" somewhat useful for some lore on the region. With the whole Covid-19 quarantine I had way too much time on my hand and decided to read the rest of Salvatore's Drizzt books after reading a lot of them as a kid and enjoying them back then. I figured I could get some more lore on the Sword Coast etc with the 5th edition adventures my group has been playing, but in my opinion these books are pretty much trash. Yeah, there is some lore in them but having to wade through all those books wasn't worth it and it really got to be quite the chore to do. I honestly find it amazing that he has managed to turn that book into something like a 30 year career of trash novels.
I started re-reading a Crystal Shard ... it did not hold up well. Only made it through I think the first three chapters. I think I started but never finished it's sequel (Halfling Gem?). But yeah, I don't understand how a character considered an icon to the game's lore (even people who don't know what the Forgotten Realms are have heard of Drizzt) grew out of that work.
Your mileage may vary. There's actually a blogger who is reading D&D novels, maybe even focusing on Forgotten Realms novels, and doing sort of retro reviews if you want to get a spoiler filled sense of what you'd be getting into (I don't think he's found a good one yet, but I think he's only done three). His review of Crystal Shard I think is largely valid.
What I don't get is how TSR editorial even went with his writing. I mean they published the Dragon Lance books before this ... and I know Dragonlance is considered highly derivative itself but the writing was just better. Could be a market thing too. I think I remember reading TSR wasn't really a fair rate payer for fiction writing (other outlets would pay more), and I remember there was some falling out between TSR and Hickman and Weis, so it could just be TSR fiction got what it paid for. There's also the whole Dungeons Masters are not necessarily good fiction writers. There's overlaps in the craft, but they are distinct crafts.
Bricken's review of Darkwalker on Moonshae is a better hoot, which is funny because also not "great" it was a better novel than Crystal Shard, at least I thought so a few decades ago.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
I've been a Forgotten Realms fan for years, and I'm one of those people that is really any for the lore. I enjoy learning about what is canon (I know, I know, that's a loaded term in D&D), and I was introduced to the setting via the novels. I think there are a little over 300 books set in the Realms, and yes, 33 (with some spin-offs) of them are part of the Drizzt saga (Relentless just came out in July). Salvatore initially said he picked Icewind Dale as the setting for the first Drizzt trilogy because that was an area of Faerun that hadn't been developed at the time, so he kind of had free reign with it.
Forgotten Realms is a setting that is detailed in lore and history, and I personally have enjoyed the novels, particularly those by Elaine Cunningham. She is great for elf and non-Lolthite drow lore. Some of the earlier setting novels do have a kind of..."gamey" feel to them, for lack of a better way of putting it, but they get better later on. As for the Drizzt books themselves being worth the read...if you're looking for lore, no. As I said, he did help develop Icewind Dale, so maybe a bit for that, and he helped with Menzo too, but RAS has a tendency to do his own thing (which has led to some limited understanding of the world by people who have only read the Drizzt books). So if you really want to dive into the setting, I would read other novels or source books. I wouldn't call any of the novels set in the Realms stellar, top-notch fantasy, but they're fun, and they do help you explore the world. The Realms novels were often used to help launch a new edition and tell about big events (Time of Troubles, Spellplague, Second Sundering, etc).
The Drizzt books have a very solid fan following (honestly, the fan mentality for them is a bit scary at times). They are probably the most popular among the FR novels, which, don't get me wrong, Drizzt is cool, and he was my introduction to the Realms as well, but they overshadow some other really good Realms series, imho, and again, if you want lore, the Drizzt books aren't the best for them. There are other Forgotten Realms novels that are better for it, though the early Drizzt books are the best for Icewind Dale.
I've been reading fantasy most of my life, so a way to get me into a setting is novels lol. Again, I would not call any of the Realms novels top level fantasy, but they were used to help move the setting along for a while (some more than others, and again, the earlier novels do have a "gamey" feel to them).
The Forgotten Realms wiki has some info on Icewind Dale, if you don't feel like reading the books: https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Icewind_Dale
I want to riff on this last note and say when I want to digest lore, I go to that site. When I want to passively digest lore while doing dishes, I go to YouTube, there's quite a compendium of "lore compilers" who put together some pretty nifty slideshows of art work and such as they lecture. Some are better than others, and a lot don't seem to worry about internal inconsistencies, while others will point them out. But yeah, the novels never got a purchase into me after reading about three of them.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
I really loved a good amount of the novels. They got me into D&D lore. Not just the Drizzt books, but all the other books set in the Realms. As I said though, a lot of the "classic" novels do have a gamey feel to them. Some of the later novels, like Brimstone Angels, Erevis Cale, Last Mythal trilogy, etc, read much better, and are great lore mines. But some of the earlier ones are also fun. Not stellar writing, but I have enjoyed them. I've fallen out of the love with the Drizzt saga, but I do miss the FR novel line as a whole.
That said, the FR wiki is often a great place to look up lore if you're trying to find information quickly, and they provide references to novels and source books if you want to pursue more.
Ok, I"ll keep an open mind on the Forgotten Realms fiction front. Is Bruce Cordell's Abolethic Sovereignty series considered FR lore, and is it any good? I like his Illthiad and supporting modules trilogy, was wondering about the novels.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
I always skipped Drizzt's internal musings every chapter but the Crystal Shard was great.
The best two characters though are Artemis and Jaraxle. They are worth the read.
One day I am going to go back and read every Forgotten Realms book I missed in the middle years, perhaps after I retire.
(Dragonlance is better, IMHO.)
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
Thanks for the information and opinions in the subject, everyone. It seems like there is a fairly unanimous opinion on the subject, being that the books are a mostly a bit of pulp-y fun, but not especially great stories likely to inspire revolutionary better DMing for the campaign. It's been a long time since I last read a book (shamefully), but I do feel inspired to pick one up again now regardless.. I think I might just make it an Ursula Le Guin one instead, for now. :)
I feel a discussion about FR lore and books is incomplete without mentioning Erin M. Evans "Brimstone Angels"-series. It is absolutely excellent for everything related to dragonborn, tieflings, and recent events during and since the Sundering.
I am one with the Force. The Force is with me.
Same. LotR is the ultimate tho...
“I will take responsibility for what I have done. [...] If must fall, I will rise each time a better man.” ― Brandon Sanderson, Oathbringer.
I mean, of course it is subjective. I never said it wasn't, it is obviously my opinion.
“I will take responsibility for what I have done. [...] If must fall, I will rise each time a better man.” ― Brandon Sanderson, Oathbringer.
ahh ok.
“I will take responsibility for what I have done. [...] If must fall, I will rise each time a better man.” ― Brandon Sanderson, Oathbringer.
I can second Wheel of Time, Sanderson, and Malazan. I have read most of the other books you stated, but I personally think those three are the best.
A fool pulls the leaves. A brute chops the trunk. A sage digs the roots.
My Improved Lineage System
Most of the books are Junk Food Fiction. If you can get them under what you pay for bag of chips, go for it.
No Gaming is Better than Bad Gaming.
Yes, absolutely. The saga of Drizzt and his Companions is fantastic imo. Are there lulls in the series? Yeah, but keep in mind dudes been writing these books since the late 80s. Not all of them are gonna be classics. In particular I wasn't thrilled with how the transition from third to fourth edition was handled in the narrative of Drizzt but Salvatore has made it pretty clear both him and Greenwood were opposed to the way that transition was handled and immediately started writing how they were gonna retcon it when they got a chance. I just finished "Relentless" which is the most recent, and perhaps the very last, Drizzt book and it was great. Salvatore writes a pretty good action scene and it was full of emotional highs and lows that resonated with the entire four decade long saga. Then there's the added benefit of them helping flesh out the region of the Sword Coast, and especially Icewind Dale. They aren't long reads and if you like them you can probably finish a book in a day. If you have a spare day go grab "The Crystal Shard" and spend a Saturday with it. If you don't like them you are out one day but if you do you suddenly have like 40 some odd books to read. Seems like a great opportunity for not so little cost imo.