"It is strange to think, I have not seen you in a month. I have seen the new moon, but not you. I have seen sunsets and sunrises, but nothing of your beautiful face. The pieces of my broken heart can pass through the eye of a needle. I miss you like the sun misses the flower. Like the sun misses the flower in the depths of winter. Instead of beauty to direct its light to, the heart hardens like the frozen world your absence has sent me to."
@Geann true, but the rest of the party can get involved as like a friend group (again, only if the other players are interested in doing this; if not, it can be done as a side thing with the player who wants a romance plot, or if it’s two PCs who like each other, they can text each other separately with the DM only getting involved as needed and not bothering the other players until the relationship becomes official)
I’ve had some success with romantic plot lines and subplots, both as a DM and as a player
"It is strange to think, I have not seen you in a month. I have seen the new moon, but not you. I have seen sunsets and sunrises, but nothing of your beautiful face. The pieces of my broken heart can pass through the eye of a needle. I miss you like the sun misses the flower. Like the sun misses the flower in the depths of winter. Instead of beauty to direct its light to, the heart hardens like the frozen world your absence has sent me to."
The worst difficulty tends to happen in text-medium online RP, such as the old school MUSHes and MUXes and such. People did not know each other by sight or voice, and immature or inexperienced RPers would tend to conflate character with player. And there was a type of sexualized RP called "TinySex" (or TS for short) based on the original name for MUDs and MUSHes (TinyMUD and TinyMUS). That kind of thing was... ugh.
MMOs can make it bad too, as they often almost require you to make up a sexy avatar (both male or female) and then players for some reason assume that everyone is as hot as their avatar (even though you know you're not as hot as your own avatar -- many people assume that everyone else is, as if they are the only exception).
For all these reasons I tend to steer clear of romantic plots. As a DM, I don't mind having an NPC flirt with a character, because DMs play so many characters there is no chance anyone will assume that the DM is flirting with them. But player to player flirting in my experience has often caused trouble unless you are in person with people you know REALLY well.
And depending how the old school MUSHes and MUDs were emoting, you could "walk in" on ts. Thanks for reminding me of dial up days awkwardness, Bio <shudder>.
But back to the topic. I think while there's room for contextually sensible and consensual romance in TTRPG, the table really ought to pull the curtain on intimacy beyond "and you two hit it off" "you're now exchanging tokens" etc. Think about the literal dramatic forces the table is playing with otherwise when you get into intimacy. Intimacy, especially physical intimacy is _really difficult_ for professional actors, so much that actors unions and best film and tv making practices have a ton of protocols, often having consultants on set and set monitors to not just help with the scene "working" but looking out for the emotional welfare of the scenes participants (real acting taps into a naked vulnerability anyway that an actor has honed through study and training, to do it truly naked pushes those protections). It just goes into a vulnerability zone most players and DMs aren't well versed in, plus there's a myriad of psyche rabbit holes introducing emotional or physical intimacy could trigger in either the active participant or passive witnesses at the table (and let's not even get into complicating or confusing the out of game personal relationships present and connected to the table).
In the real world's lore as well as fantastic lore of the heart and body, intimacy is one of the more extreme states of human experience, present thinking posits vulnerability being at the core. Don't push with it in play. The opposite of this intimacy is abuse, which is often a mishandling of intimacy or vulnerability in the first place. Between romance and torture there's a spectrum with what I think are healthy boundaries in game play. If you push the boundary you risk breaking past the character and adversely affecting the player (this is why among other things professional dramatic productions have set monitors) so basically just like you can menace or threaten a character but there are clear lines in how far a table should go when it comes to torture, you can have characters flirt, but if you go to what's usually "behind closed doors" you're likely asking for trouble (and there's also "artless awkwardness" convincing portrayals of this physical emotional space is one of the toughest acts in fiction writing and creative writing class egos as well as published author reviews have suffered for ineptitude, the most epic perhaps being Heminway's "For Whom the Bell Tolls" otherwise a great work on the psychology of combat and early twentieth century politics).
On a different and perhaps conflicting notes, game conventions used to have "after dark, adults only" sessions where things went more in a profane or bawdy bent. I don't know if those events survived to todays modern conventions scene. There has been a lot of fan (I'd say impressive) convention work done to make everyone feel safe at such events, so I think there may be a damper if not outright ban on those sorts of events these days.
"It is strange to think, I have not seen you in a month. I have seen the new moon, but not you. I have seen sunsets and sunrises, but nothing of your beautiful face. The pieces of my broken heart can pass through the eye of a needle. I miss you like the sun misses the flower. Like the sun misses the flower in the depths of winter. Instead of beauty to direct its light to, the heart hardens like the frozen world your absence has sent me to."
-W. Thatcher
That’s awesome! I’ve never read that poet.
He was known more as a fighter, who later became a knight. He was always known as a lousy dancer, with questionable taste in women.
The worst difficulty tends to happen in text-medium online RP, such as the old school MUSHes and MUXes and such. People did not know each other by sight or voice, and immature or inexperienced RPers would tend to conflate character with player. And there was a type of sexualized RP called "TinySex" (or TS for short) based on the original name for MUDs and MUSHes (TinyMUD and TinyMUS). That kind of thing was... ugh.
MMOs can make it bad too, as they often almost require you to make up a sexy avatar (both male or female) and then players for some reason assume that everyone is as hot as their avatar (even though you know you're not as hot as your own avatar -- many people assume that everyone else is, as if they are the only exception).
For all these reasons I tend to steer clear of romantic plots. As a DM, I don't mind having an NPC flirt with a character, because DMs play so many characters there is no chance anyone will assume that the DM is flirting with them. But player to player flirting in my experience has often caused trouble unless you are in person with people you know REALLY well.
And depending how the old school MUSHes and MUDs were emoting, you could "walk in" on ts. Thanks for reminding me of dial up days awkwardness, Bio <shudder>.
But back to the topic. I think while there's room for contextually sensible and consensual romance in TTRPG, the table really ought to pull the curtain on intimacy beyond "and you two hit it off" "you're now exchanging tokens" etc. Think about the literal dramatic forces the table is playing with otherwise when you get into intimacy. Intimacy, especially physical intimacy is _really difficult_ for professional actors, so much that actors unions and best film and tv making practices have a ton of protocols, often having consultants on set and set monitors to not just help with the scene "working" but looking out for the emotional welfare of the scenes participants (real acting taps into a naked vulnerability anyway that an actor has honed through study and training, to do it truly naked pushes those protections). It just goes into a vulnerability zone most players and DMs aren't well versed in, plus there's a myriad of psyche rabbit holes introducing emotional or physical intimacy could trigger in either the active participant or passive witnesses at the table (and let's not even get into complicating or confusing the out of game personal relationships present and connected to the table).
In the real world's lore as well as fantastic lore of the heart and body, intimacy is one of the more extreme states of human experience, present thinking posits vulnerability being at the core. Don't push with it in play. The opposite of this intimacy is abuse, which is often a mishandling of intimacy or vulnerability in the first place. Between romance and torture there's a spectrum with what I think are healthy boundaries in game play. If you push the boundary you risk breaking past the character and adversely affecting the player (this is why among other things professional dramatic productions have set monitors) so basically just like you can menace or threaten a character but there are clear lines in how far a table should go when it comes to torture, you can have characters flirt, but if you go to what's usually "behind closed doors" you're likely asking for trouble (and there's also "artless awkwardness" convincing portrayals of this physical emotional space is one of the toughest acts in fiction writing and creative writing class egos as well as published author reviews have suffered for ineptitude, the most epic perhaps being Heminway's "For Whom the Bell Tolls" otherwise a great work on the psychology of combat and early twentieth century politics).
On a different and perhaps conflicting notes, game conventions used to have "after dark, adults only" sessions where things went more in a profane or bawdy bent. I don't know if those events survived to todays modern conventions scene. There has been a lot of fan (I'd say impressive) convention work done to make everyone feel safe at such events, so I think there may be a damper if not outright ban on those sorts of events these days.
"It is strange to think, I have not seen you in a month. I have seen the new moon, but not you. I have seen sunsets and sunrises, but nothing of your beautiful face. The pieces of my broken heart can pass through the eye of a needle. I miss you like the sun misses the flower. Like the sun misses the flower in the depths of winter. Instead of beauty to direct its light to, the heart hardens like the frozen world your absence has sent me to."
-W. Thatcher
That’s awesome! I’ve never read that poet.
He was known more as a fighter, who later became a knight. He was always known as a lousy dancer, with questionable taste in women.
"It is strange to think, I have not seen you in a month. I have seen the new moon, but not you. I have seen sunsets and sunrises, but nothing of your beautiful face. The pieces of my broken heart can pass through the eye of a needle. I miss you like the sun misses the flower. Like the sun misses the flower in the depths of winter. Instead of beauty to direct its light to, the heart hardens like the frozen world your absence has sent me to."
-W. Thatcher
That’s awesome! I’ve never read that poet.
He was known more as a fighter, who later became a knight. He was always known as a lousy dancer, with questionable taste in women.
Dunno why, but it reminds me of Cmdr. Broshep from Mass Effect.🤣
@Geann true, but the rest of the party can get involved as like a friend group (again, only if the other players are interested in doing this; if not, it can be done as a side thing with the player who wants a romance plot, or if it’s two PCs who like each other, they can text each other separately with the DM only getting involved as needed and not bothering the other players until the relationship becomes official)
I’ve had some success with romantic plot lines and subplots, both as a DM and as a player
Totally true.
It's not always completely up to the DM. In that second campaign (that I mentioned first), a simple flub by the DM gave the group the opportunity to become involved rather than stand by and watch. They would involve themselves anyway. The character is kind of a lout and they would definitely have taken any opportunity to capitalize on his sensitive side. (Every time their character got drunk, they all showed sensitive sides. Rogue: "MANLY LOVE!!" and starts trying to undress but is too drunk to do so...)
One of the players chose to console the lout - a long-time adversary back when they were NPCs but growing to understand each other a bit better since. The others chose to mock him based on the DM's flub but the character never caught on that they were mocking him.
So, that's all on the players. The DM set the stage and can pull the reigns if things start going too far (as noted in the first campaign that I mentioned second), but the players must take opportunities when they are presented - intended or not. [insert wise phrase about horses and water or something]
("No doesn't mean no" isn't an opportunity. So don't even go there.)
The 3 former-NPCs in the campaign were all adversarial with each other until they were forced to adventure together to save their homes and themselves. So, even the Sorcerer has become much less of an *** to the others since he was stripped of being the most powerful NPC in the game and also, for the first time in his existence, had to learn spells rather than just having them available by game code.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider. My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong. I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲 “It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
"It is strange to think, I have not seen you in a month. I have seen the new moon, but not you. I have seen sunsets and sunrises, but nothing of your beautiful face. The pieces of my broken heart can pass through the eye of a needle. I miss you like the sun misses the flower. Like the sun misses the flower in the depths of winter. Instead of beauty to direct its light to, the heart hardens like the frozen world your absence has sent me to."
-W. Thatcher
That’s awesome! I’ve never read that poet.
He was known more as a fighter, who later became a knight. He was always known as a lousy dancer, with questionable taste in women.
Dunno why, but it reminds me of Cmdr. Broshep from Mass Effect.🤣
@Geann true, but the rest of the party can get involved as like a friend group (again, only if the other players are interested in doing this; if not, it can be done as a side thing with the player who wants a romance plot, or if it’s two PCs who like each other, they can text each other separately with the DM only getting involved as needed and not bothering the other players until the relationship becomes official)
I’ve had some success with romantic plot lines and subplots, both as a DM and as a player
Totally true.
It's not always completely up to the DM. In that second campaign (that I mentioned first), a simple flub by the DM gave the group the opportunity to become involved rather than stand by and watch. They would involve themselves anyway. The character is kind of a lout and they would definitely have taken any opportunity to capitalize on his sensitive side. (Every time their character got drunk, they all showed sensitive sides. Rogue: "MANLY LOVE!!" and starts trying to undress but is too drunk to do so...)
One of the players chose to console the lout - a long-time adversary back when they were NPCs but growing to understand each other a bit better since. The others chose to mock him based on the DM's flub but the character never caught on that they were mocking him.
So, that's all on the players. The DM set the stage and can pull the reigns if things start going too far (as noted in the first campaign that I mentioned second), but the players must take opportunities when they are presented - intended or not. [insert wise phrase about horses and water or something]
("No doesn't mean no" isn't an opportunity. So don't even go there.)
The 3 former-NPCs in the campaign were all adversarial with each other until they were forced to adventure together to save their homes and themselves. So, even the Sorcerer has become much less of an *** to the others since he was stripped of being the most powerful NPC in the game and also, for the first time in his existence, had to learn spells rather than just having them available by game code.
No interest. Not in the games I DM. Not in the games I play in. It's just not what I play the game for.
I am sure that there might be some cases where it works out fine, but every time I've seen it happen, it usually ends up creeping out one of the parties involved. Either a player goes to far with an NPC, making the DM uncomfortable. Or the DM makes a player uncomfortable. Or one player makes another uncomfortable. Or two players make the rest of the group uncomfortable.
"It is strange to think, I have not seen you in a month. I have seen the new moon, but not you. I have seen sunsets and sunrises, but nothing of your beautiful face. The pieces of my broken heart can pass through the eye of a needle. I miss you like the sun misses the flower. Like the sun misses the flower in the depths of winter. Instead of beauty to direct its light to, the heart hardens like the frozen world your absence has sent me to."
-W. Thatcher
That’s awesome! I’ve never read that poet.
He was known more as a fighter, who later became a knight. He was always known as a lousy dancer, with questionable taste in women.
I know a lot of poets but idk this one.
W. Thatcher was known to be born some time in the middle ages. He was a contemporary of Chaucer. He was known as a man of the people, but one who aspired to greater things, and achieved them. He was known best for his ability to fight in tournaments, with sword and lance. But he was legendary with the lance. Though unproven, it is said that the poem that he is so famous for was actually a collaboration of memories from his friends, written with the encouragement and help of Chaucer himself. Lastly, once again unproven, it is suggested that the famous "swoop" was taken by Nike from an old drawing of a symbol on Thatcher's armour.
No interest. Not in the games I DM. Not in the games I play in. It's just not what I play the game for.
I am sure that there might be some cases where it works out fine, but every time I've seen it happen, it usually ends up creeping out one of the parties involved. Either a player goes to far with an NPC, making the DM uncomfortable. Or the DM makes a player uncomfortable. Or one player makes another uncomfortable. Or two players make the rest of the group uncomfortable.
I actually do like it (hence why I asked this question), but I only like it in moderation. Like spices in cooking.
"It is strange to think, I have not seen you in a month. I have seen the new moon, but not you. I have seen sunsets and sunrises, but nothing of your beautiful face. The pieces of my broken heart can pass through the eye of a needle. I miss you like the sun misses the flower. Like the sun misses the flower in the depths of winter. Instead of beauty to direct its light to, the heart hardens like the frozen world your absence has sent me to."
-W. Thatcher
That’s awesome! I’ve never read that poet.
He was known more as a fighter, who later became a knight. He was always known as a lousy dancer, with questionable taste in women.
I know a lot of poets but idk this one.
W. Thatcher was known to be born some time in the middle ages. He was a contemporary of Chaucer. He was known as a man of the people, but one who aspired to greater things, and achieved them. He was known best for his ability to fight in tournaments, with sword and lance. But he was legendary with the lance. Though unproven, it is said that the poem that he is so famous for was actually a collaboration of memories from his friends, written with the encouragement and help of Chaucer himself. Lastly, once again unproven, it is suggested that the famous "swoop" was taken by Nike from an old drawing of a symbol on Thatcher's armour.
No interest. Not in the games I DM. Not in the games I play in. It's just not what I play the game for.
I am sure that there might be some cases where it works out fine, but every time I've seen it happen, it usually ends up creeping out one of the parties involved. Either a player goes to far with an NPC, making the DM uncomfortable. Or the DM makes a player uncomfortable. Or one player makes another uncomfortable. Or two players make the rest of the group uncomfortable.
Yeah. Same. I've only seen romance in other people's games - some done well and some cringe-y. A DM tried to plan what was likely a trap for my character, but since it was supposed to be spurred by romantic interest, I just shrugged it off.
If a novel goes hot-and-heavy, I'll skip past if the story's interesting or give up if the story's lacking. To me, D&D is a cooperative narrative with gameplay (no matter what Gygax stated, though I'm not sure how to properly interpret what he stated - he might have been referring to solo stories because the way he worded it seemed to suggest it's supposed to be cooperative, but cooperative what?).
I skip past sex scenes in movies the same way I'll skip past songs in musicals. Move the story along. We got the idea already. What can I say? I'm a prude when it comes to entertainment... or rather, I just don't like interrupting the story for gratuitous stuff.
(Singing in the Rain is one of the worst offenders. They'll actually state a phrase and sing about that one, solitary, single, off-hand phrase for 5 minutes! There's a cute story there, but it's constantly interrupted for pointless singing. Trying to decide on what kind of "talky" movie to produce: "Make 'em laugh" for 5 minutes. Trying to decide what to do about a famous silent movie star whose voice is horrifying, discussing until the morning: "Good morning. We talked the whole night through" for 5 minutes. Practicing their diction for their first talky movie: "Moses supposes" tongue twister for 5 minutes. It's raining and he's happy: "Singing in the Rain" for 5 minutes. ARGH!)
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider. My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong. I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲 “It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
No interest. Not in the games I DM. Not in the games I play in. It's just not what I play the game for.
I am sure that there might be some cases where it works out fine, but every time I've seen it happen, it usually ends up creeping out one of the parties involved. Either a player goes to far with an NPC, making the DM uncomfortable. Or the DM makes a player uncomfortable. Or one player makes another uncomfortable. Or two players make the rest of the group uncomfortable.
Yeah. Same. I've only seen romance in other people's games - some done well and some cringe-y. A DM tried to plan what was likely a trap for my character, but since it was supposed to be spurred by romantic interest, I just shrugged it off.
If a novel goes hot-and-heavy, I'll skip past if the story's interesting or give up if the story's lacking. To me, D&D is a cooperative narrative with gameplay (no matter what Gygax stated, though I'm not sure how to properly interpret what he stated - he might have been referring to solo stories because the way he worded it seemed to suggest it's supposed to be cooperative, but cooperative what?).
I skip past sex scenes in movies the same way I'll skip past songs in musicals. Move the story along. We got the idea already. What can I say? I'm a prude when it comes to entertainment... or rather, I just don't like interrupting the story for gratuitous stuff.
(Singing in the Rain is one of the worst offenders. They'll actually state a phrase and sing about that one, solitary, single, off-hand phrase for 5 minutes! There's a cute story there, but it's constantly interrupted for pointless singing. Trying to decide on what kind of "talky" movie to produce: "Make 'em laugh" for 5 minutes. Trying to decide what to do about a famous silent movie star whose voice is horrifying, discussing until the morning: "Good morning. We talked the whole night through" for 5 minutes. Practicing their diction for their first talky movie: "Moses supposes" tongue twister for 5 minutes. It's raining and he's happy: "Singing in the Rain" for 5 minutes. ARGH!)
I’m the opposite lol. But even though I like a little romance as a seasoning in my games, I would never try and push it if one of the other players was bored or uncomfortable with it. I would just save it for one on one (or two on one) RP with the DM (usually by text).
I really, really do not like one on one stuff in my games. For my group, it’s all about the fun, energy, and friendship, so the idea of RPing away from the table is completely foreign to me. If there’s gonna be stupidity or melodrama, everyone gets to enjoy it and laugh at it afterwards. Just my perspective.
That is a good point. Romance between 2 PCs leaves the other players sitting there watching a RomCom or something possibly more extreme. Romance between NPC and PC leaves all but one player out as spectators.
That is true of all sorts of things though. It is relatively rare that literally every character's skill set is relevant at the same time. It not really any different than a problem involving religion and not all the characters being into that, or arcane theory, or thieving skills, or diplomacy, etc, etc, etc....
I see what you're saying and agree that the game is a mix of ensemble action and spotlight moments; but there's something so culturally privileged about romance and dating, that beyond my own concerns about the hazards of romantic intimacy in play I've laid out earlier, I think on a further pragmatic level giving significant game space over to a PC's romantic life "third wheels" the rest of the table. Third Wheeling is just uncool.
I would say, if a table wanted to entertain romance it's probably most fun for a table to do so as an all involved romp. Why back in Zero Edition D&D, this guy Shakespeare wrote some modules to that end. They're a little rail-roady in plot and presentation, but a DM can work it to give the players more agency. One, Midsummer Night's Dream, really stands out as an ensemble piece with romance plots (plus the Feywild). If you want to do it a little heavier, you got the Tempest. Much Ado About Nothing on the light intrigue front. I guess if you wanted to do an emo angst oriented session with lots of room for combat, there's Romeo and Juliet.
At my own table, I've inserted this theme of "heroes with weakness" into my Descent into Avernus sandbox rework. One possible trajectory, that would take them out of Hell and into other lower planes adapts the musical Hadestown, itself a reworking of the Orpheus myth where (if you follow then Platonic criticism) an epic level Bard's heroic crusade against death for love collapses due to his insecurity (tangential DM tips: I adapted/cribbed lines from the introduction of "How to Get to Hadestown" and its more interior-oriented reprise into a "things you should know/what you're in for" discussion with sages at Candlekeep before the party embarked to Avernus, it helped set the tone for the characters' conduct: The meanest dog you'll ever meet / He aint' the hound dog in the street / He bares some teeth and tears some skin / But brother, that's the worst of him / The dog you really go to dread / is Is the one that howls inside your head / It's him whose howling drives men mad / And a mind to it's undoing" always thought those lines are relevant to lots of heroic action, including romance plots).
"It is strange to think, I have not seen you in a month.
I have seen the new moon, but not you.
I have seen sunsets and sunrises, but nothing of your beautiful face.
The pieces of my broken heart can pass through the eye of a needle.
I miss you like the sun misses the flower. Like the sun misses the flower in the depths of winter.
Instead of beauty to direct its light to, the heart hardens like the frozen world your absence has sent me to."
-W. Thatcher
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
@Geann true, but the rest of the party can get involved as like a friend group (again, only if the other players are interested in doing this; if not, it can be done as a side thing with the player who wants a romance plot, or if it’s two PCs who like each other, they can text each other separately with the DM only getting involved as needed and not bothering the other players until the relationship becomes official)
I’ve had some success with romantic plot lines and subplots, both as a DM and as a player
That’s awesome! I’ve never read that poet.
"Is this a kissing book?" - The Princess Bride.
<Insert clever signature here>
And depending how the old school MUSHes and MUDs were emoting, you could "walk in" on ts. Thanks for reminding me of dial up days awkwardness, Bio <shudder>.
But back to the topic. I think while there's room for contextually sensible and consensual romance in TTRPG, the table really ought to pull the curtain on intimacy beyond "and you two hit it off" "you're now exchanging tokens" etc. Think about the literal dramatic forces the table is playing with otherwise when you get into intimacy. Intimacy, especially physical intimacy is _really difficult_ for professional actors, so much that actors unions and best film and tv making practices have a ton of protocols, often having consultants on set and set monitors to not just help with the scene "working" but looking out for the emotional welfare of the scenes participants (real acting taps into a naked vulnerability anyway that an actor has honed through study and training, to do it truly naked pushes those protections). It just goes into a vulnerability zone most players and DMs aren't well versed in, plus there's a myriad of psyche rabbit holes introducing emotional or physical intimacy could trigger in either the active participant or passive witnesses at the table (and let's not even get into complicating or confusing the out of game personal relationships present and connected to the table).
In the real world's lore as well as fantastic lore of the heart and body, intimacy is one of the more extreme states of human experience, present thinking posits vulnerability being at the core. Don't push with it in play. The opposite of this intimacy is abuse, which is often a mishandling of intimacy or vulnerability in the first place. Between romance and torture there's a spectrum with what I think are healthy boundaries in game play. If you push the boundary you risk breaking past the character and adversely affecting the player (this is why among other things professional dramatic productions have set monitors) so basically just like you can menace or threaten a character but there are clear lines in how far a table should go when it comes to torture, you can have characters flirt, but if you go to what's usually "behind closed doors" you're likely asking for trouble (and there's also "artless awkwardness" convincing portrayals of this physical emotional space is one of the toughest acts in fiction writing and creative writing class egos as well as published author reviews have suffered for ineptitude, the most epic perhaps being Heminway's "For Whom the Bell Tolls" otherwise a great work on the psychology of combat and early twentieth century politics).
On a different and perhaps conflicting notes, game conventions used to have "after dark, adults only" sessions where things went more in a profane or bawdy bent. I don't know if those events survived to todays modern conventions scene. There has been a lot of fan (I'd say impressive) convention work done to make everyone feel safe at such events, so I think there may be a damper if not outright ban on those sorts of events these days.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
He was known more as a fighter, who later became a knight. He was always known as a lousy dancer, with questionable taste in women.
I didn’t know all this. Thank you.
I know a lot of poets but idk this one.
Dunno why, but it reminds me of Cmdr. Broshep from Mass Effect.🤣
Totally true.
It's not always completely up to the DM. In that second campaign (that I mentioned first), a simple flub by the DM gave the group the opportunity to become involved rather than stand by and watch. They would involve themselves anyway. The character is kind of a lout and they would definitely have taken any opportunity to capitalize on his sensitive side. (Every time their character got drunk, they all showed sensitive sides. Rogue: "MANLY LOVE!!" and starts trying to undress but is too drunk to do so...)
One of the players chose to console the lout - a long-time adversary back when they were NPCs but growing to understand each other a bit better since. The others chose to mock him based on the DM's flub but the character never caught on that they were mocking him.
So, that's all on the players. The DM set the stage and can pull the reigns if things start going too far (as noted in the first campaign that I mentioned second), but the players must take opportunities when they are presented - intended or not. [insert wise phrase about horses and water or something]
("No doesn't mean no" isn't an opportunity. So don't even go there.)
The 3 former-NPCs in the campaign were all adversarial with each other until they were forced to adventure together to save their homes and themselves. So, even the Sorcerer has become much less of an *** to the others since he was stripped of being the most powerful NPC in the game and also, for the first time in his existence, had to learn spells rather than just having them available by game code.
Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider.
My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong.
I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲
“It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
I’m glad it worked out ok for your group.
No interest. Not in the games I DM. Not in the games I play in. It's just not what I play the game for.
I am sure that there might be some cases where it works out fine, but every time I've seen it happen, it usually ends up creeping out one of the parties involved. Either a player goes to far with an NPC, making the DM uncomfortable. Or the DM makes a player uncomfortable. Or one player makes another uncomfortable. Or two players make the rest of the group uncomfortable.
W. Thatcher was known to be born some time in the middle ages. He was a contemporary of Chaucer. He was known as a man of the people, but one who aspired to greater things, and achieved them. He was known best for his ability to fight in tournaments, with sword and lance. But he was legendary with the lance. Though unproven, it is said that the poem that he is so famous for was actually a collaboration of memories from his friends, written with the encouragement and help of Chaucer himself. Lastly, once again unproven, it is suggested that the famous "swoop" was taken by Nike from an old drawing of a symbol on Thatcher's armour.
I actually do like it (hence why I asked this question), but I only like it in moderation. Like spices in cooking.
Thank you.
Yeah. Same. I've only seen romance in other people's games - some done well and some cringe-y. A DM tried to plan what was likely a trap for my character, but since it was supposed to be spurred by romantic interest, I just shrugged it off.
If a novel goes hot-and-heavy, I'll skip past if the story's interesting or give up if the story's lacking. To me, D&D is a cooperative narrative with gameplay (no matter what Gygax stated, though I'm not sure how to properly interpret what he stated - he might have been referring to solo stories because the way he worded it seemed to suggest it's supposed to be cooperative, but cooperative what?).
I skip past sex scenes in movies the same way I'll skip past songs in musicals. Move the story along. We got the idea already. What can I say? I'm a prude when it comes to entertainment... or rather, I just don't like interrupting the story for gratuitous stuff.
(Singing in the Rain is one of the worst offenders. They'll actually state a phrase and sing about that one, solitary, single, off-hand phrase for 5 minutes! There's a cute story there, but it's constantly interrupted for pointless singing. Trying to decide on what kind of "talky" movie to produce: "Make 'em laugh" for 5 minutes. Trying to decide what to do about a famous silent movie star whose voice is horrifying, discussing until the morning: "Good morning. We talked the whole night through" for 5 minutes. Practicing their diction for their first talky movie: "Moses supposes" tongue twister for 5 minutes. It's raining and he's happy: "Singing in the Rain" for 5 minutes. ARGH!)
Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider.
My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong.
I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲
“It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
I’m the opposite lol. But even though I like a little romance as a seasoning in my games, I would never try and push it if one of the other players was bored or uncomfortable with it. I would just save it for one on one (or two on one) RP with the DM (usually by text).
I think romance in D&D is just an awful idea.
Unless, of course, it devolves into this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJoM7V54T-c
The only acceptable way to do romance.
I really, really do not like one on one stuff in my games. For my group, it’s all about the fun, energy, and friendship, so the idea of RPing away from the table is completely foreign to me. If there’s gonna be stupidity or melodrama, everyone gets to enjoy it and laugh at it afterwards. Just my perspective.
Wizard (Gandalf) of the Tolkien Club
I see what you're saying and agree that the game is a mix of ensemble action and spotlight moments; but there's something so culturally privileged about romance and dating, that beyond my own concerns about the hazards of romantic intimacy in play I've laid out earlier, I think on a further pragmatic level giving significant game space over to a PC's romantic life "third wheels" the rest of the table. Third Wheeling is just uncool.
I would say, if a table wanted to entertain romance it's probably most fun for a table to do so as an all involved romp. Why back in Zero Edition D&D, this guy Shakespeare wrote some modules to that end. They're a little rail-roady in plot and presentation, but a DM can work it to give the players more agency. One, Midsummer Night's Dream, really stands out as an ensemble piece with romance plots (plus the Feywild). If you want to do it a little heavier, you got the Tempest. Much Ado About Nothing on the light intrigue front. I guess if you wanted to do an emo angst oriented session with lots of room for combat, there's Romeo and Juliet.
At my own table, I've inserted this theme of "heroes with weakness" into my Descent into Avernus sandbox rework. One possible trajectory, that would take them out of Hell and into other lower planes adapts the musical Hadestown, itself a reworking of the Orpheus myth where (if you follow then Platonic criticism) an epic level Bard's heroic crusade against death for love collapses due to his insecurity (tangential DM tips: I adapted/cribbed lines from the introduction of "How to Get to Hadestown" and its more interior-oriented reprise into a "things you should know/what you're in for" discussion with sages at Candlekeep before the party embarked to Avernus, it helped set the tone for the characters' conduct: The meanest dog you'll ever meet / He aint' the hound dog in the street / He bares some teeth and tears some skin / But brother, that's the worst of him / The dog you really go to dread / is Is the one that howls inside your head / It's him whose howling drives men mad / And a mind to it's undoing" always thought those lines are relevant to lots of heroic action, including romance plots).
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
My favorite 'romance in DND' pop culture reference (warning: semi-NSFW):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODgu_-rR1X8