I believe the Drow were based off the Dokkalfar/Svartalfar while their fairer skinned cousins were based off the Ljosalfar, if memory serves.
In the Forgotten Realms, though, the Drow, previously known as the Ssri-TelíQuessir to other elves, lived above ground. They were referred to as "Dark Elves" because of their worship of evil gods (ie. Ghaunadaur, Vhaeraun,and Lolth). At the end of the Crown War, Corellon transformed them into what they are now and they were banished to the Underdark. It's not so much that they "evolved" to have dark skin, it was forced upon them by deific magics.
Check out "Drizzt Do'Urden's Guide to the Underdark" for more information if you're interested.
The drow once lived in the Lands of Light alongside their fairer kindred, where they were known to elves as the Ssri-TelíQuessir. The dark elves, a term more properly applied to drow ancestors before their transformation and banishment, were drawn from venerating the Seldarine to the worship of dark powers such as Ghaunadaur, Vhaeraun,and Lolth
At the end of the fourth Crown War, circa -10,000 DR, the corrupt dark elven Ilythiiri and others were transformed by Corellon's magic into Drow as directed through the Protector's priests and High Mages, and banished to the lightless depths of the Underdark.
And none of this applies to Greyhawk, where Drow were originally conceived. They were not cursed by Corellon Larethian, otherwise Gygax would have written it to be so. They were driven underground, along with the Derro, Duergar and Kuo-Toa, but the similarity to Drow of Faerun ends there.
I believe the Drow were based off the Dokkalfar/Svartalfar while their fairer skinned cousins were based off the Ljosalfar, if memory serves.
In the Forgotten Realms, though, the Drow, previously known as the Ssri-TelíQuessir to other elves, lived above ground. They were referred to as "Dark Elves" because of their worship of evil gods (ie. Ghaunadaur, Vhaeraun,and Lolth). At the end of the Crown War, Corellon transformed them into what they are now and they were banished to the Underdark. It's not so much that they "evolved" to have dark skin, it was forced upon them by deific magics.
Check out "Drizzt Do'Urden's Guide to the Underdark" for more information if you're interested.
The drow once lived in the Lands of Light alongside their fairer kindred, where they were known to elves as the Ssri-TelíQuessir. The dark elves, a term more properly applied to drow ancestors before their transformation and banishment, were drawn from venerating the Seldarine to the worship of dark powers such as Ghaunadaur, Vhaeraun,and Lolth
At the end of the fourth Crown War, circa -10,000 DR, the corrupt dark elven Ilythiiri and others were transformed by Corellon's magic into Drow as directed through the Protector's priests and High Mages, and banished to the lightless depths of the Underdark.
That is an add-on "history" so not necessarily true.
That is an add-on "history" so not necessarily true.
Yellow flag on the field; "No True Scotsman" fallacy detected in play. 15 yard penalty.
...
Seriously. If it's from an officially-recognized source - which absolutely any non-fanfic Drizz't source by definition is - then it's not "add-on", it's D&D's official take on the race.
And none of this applies to Greyhawk, where Drow were originally conceived. They were not cursed by Corellon Larethian, otherwise Gygax would have written it to be so. They were driven underground, along with the Derro, Duergar and Kuo-Toa, but the similarity to Drow of Faerun ends there.
Yeah.
I just read the original Vault of Drow by Gygax. The drow entry says, when elves "were new to the face of the earth", they split, and the "elves" ( = high elves) and the "faeries" ( = grey elves with purple eyes) drove them underground. There, the drow ended up preferring the underground, and no longer wished to live on the surface.
My adaption of Gygax is. Grey elves materialized from the faerie realm into the material plane. There within the material, they split into drow and high elves. Thus there are no drow in the faerie realm.
It's been way too long since my first experiences with Drow so I honestly don't remember; is there any source that says they did not have dark skin before being driven underground?
I vaguely remember, in a previous version of the Forgotten Realms setting, the drow as "dark elves" originally had brown skin. They were cursed to have black skin because they were evil. The ones who repented were allowed to have light blue skin. So all three colors coexist. Additionally some of the evil black drow have "albinos" who can pass as high elves.
Seriously. If it's from an officially-recognized source - which absolutely any non-fanfic Drizz't source by definition is - then it's not "add-on", it's D&D's official take on the race.
You sure you want to be throwing that language about?
Official recognized source (All of them) say that Halflings are Halflings and Dwarves are Dwarves and none of them are insulted by their name.
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"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
That is an add-on "history" so not necessarily true.
Yellow flag on the field; "No True Scotsman" fallacy detected in play. 15 yard penalty.
...
Seriously. If it's from an officially-recognized source - which absolutely any non-fanfic Drizz't source by definition is - then it's not "add-on", it's D&D's official take on the race.
Doesn't that only follow if there is one solid continuity, something tricky at best across editions?
Keep in mind that "Drizzt Do'urden's Guide to the Underdark" is not information from an omniscient source. It's Drizzt's opinion, what he was taught, what he believes to be true. The same applies to Volo's guides. It's certainly a source with a fair amount of credibility, but being presented as such leaves enough wriggle room to argue it possibly, maybe, could be different. Something like the Monster Manual contains information that should be considered 100% absolutely correct. Guides purportedly provided by fictional characters that are part of the fictional setting should be considered well-researched (but not necessarily even objective) opinions.
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Cripes, does no one do ANY research anymore? Their hair, assuming the hood of their Elven cloak were pulled down, would blend in with the background colors....
So, their white hair is an adaption to wearing their hoods pulled down? Okaaaay.
From D3: Vault of the Drow
Special Note: Colors will be non-normal under the strange light of the stony Drow "heavens". Those with normal visual capabilities will see only in blacks and grays with bluish tinges. Those with infravision will see blues and purples as well as dull reds. All yellows appear green. With ultravision, all colors glow, scintillate, and are breathtaking. As referee, feel free to give any color you believe reasonable for monsters with distinctive coloration, i.e.indigo worm, lavender trolls, puce bugbears, etc.
Even if this wren't solely applicable to the eponymous Vault (and not to the underdark in general), this would still be irrelevant to the drow's supposed "addaptions".
Okay, smart guy, why DID the Drow develop inky black skin that just happened to allow them to completely blend in with their natural surroundings? Cause it wasn't cause they were Evil or Cursed. They were Evil BEFORE they fled underground and inky-black skin wouldn't do them much good on the surface.
Writer's fiat. The black skin would allow them to blend in with the darkness of their subterrainian environments, but the white hair screws with that—so apparently it wasn't an environmental adaptation (and the fact that drow wear clothing that covers most of their skin means that black skin only minimally would affect their ability to blend with darkness). In the Forgotten Realms, at least, the ancestors of the drow were dark-skinned before they turned evil (though their dark skin was turned black when they were cursed by Corellon). Also, dark skin would "do them good" on the surface (depending on the environmet that the originally lived—ark skin blocks more UV radiation than light skin), but like I inferred, the out-of-game reason for their dark skin in very unlikely to do with environmental adaptation.
Seriously. If it's from an officially-recognized source - which absolutely any non-fanfic Drizz't source by definition is - then it's not "add-on", it's D&D's official take on the race.
You sure you want to be throwing that language about?
Official recognized source (All of them) say that Halflings are Halflings and Dwarves are Dwarves and none of them are insulted by their name.
Citation needed. I see no official source that specifically staes whether or not any individual member of said species or the species collectively are insulted by the human terms for their species. Also, official sources have Halflings and Dwarves having different names in their own language ("Hin" and "Dwar", respectively). While it's doubtful that most dwarves (except, maybe, the most extreme linguistic purests) take offence at "dwarf", given that it seems to be derived from their endonym, halflings are a different matter. "Halfling" comes across as demeaning, degrading, or, at best, rather patronizing whether or not that that is the intention of those using the term. Whether halflings take offence, roll their eyes, or just roll with it could depend on the individual.
Whatever you choose, I think that the topic is interesting and worth exploring from a world-building and role-playing perspective and can make for a more nuanced and verisimilar setting.
"Halfling" comes across as demeaning, degrading, or, at best, rather patronizing whether or not that that is the intention of those using the term. Whether halflings take offence, roll their eyes, or just roll with it could depend on the individual.
Whatever you choose, I think that the topic is interesting and worth exploring from a world-building and role-playing perspective and can make for a more nuanced and verisimilar setting.
Thats the word. Calling someone a halfling can be endearing ... or patronizing. Context matters. For some cultures it seems unrealistic to call themselves by a potentially insulting name. Then again, in a culture of nicknames, an unflattering name is worn ironically, with humor and pride.
Consider the song "Yankee Doodle Dandy", originally an insult that Americans loved and embraced.
Seriously. If it's from an officially-recognized source - which absolutely any non-fanfic Drizz't source by definition is - then it's not "add-on", it's D&D's official take on the race.
You sure you want to be throwing that language about?
Official recognized source (All of them) say that Halflings are Halflings and Dwarves are Dwarves and none of them are insulted by their name.
Citation needed.
Fire away. Show me in official rules content where they are insulted by the names Halfling and Dwarf.
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"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
Some people may consider these names offensive. I'm not going to say that they are wrong.
Even if DnD is supposed to be some kind of reflection of our society.
That having been said, I think "Kith" is an excellent option for Halfling. It very much reflects, in my mind, the idea of a tight-knit society working together to accomplish goals. They might see that tight-knit culture as their defining characteristic and as being much further developed among their people than among the larger folk. They might refer to themselves behind closed doors as "the Kindred" and think of anyone who lacks the tight-knit culture as less evolved. The problem I would have with this, though, is that they are a Dex-based race and Dex-Based races tend to be either Rogues or Rangers (which are both classes marked as set off from a sense of belonging to a community). I'd suggest that Halflings could choose between a bonus to Dex or Wis.
Dwarves, in particular with their bonus to strength and endurance, have no connotation of being weak or lesser than. They are one of the main races chosen for fighters.
You mention, as have others using the word "Kith" as an option for Halflings. I looked up the definition of the word.
In my world lore, the Words "Dwarf", "Elf", or "Halfling" are basically human/common terms for those races, derived from their own words.
The dwarven race is called Duèrg in their own language. Duèrgrim (Hill or Surface Dwarves), Duèrgin (Mountain Dwarves), and Duèrgar (Deep Dwarves).
Similar to this, the Elves call themselves the "El", with Elwèn (Wood Elves), Eladrin (High Elves), Elûne (Night/Moon Elves), and Eldàr ("True" Elves aka Drow)
The Halflings - or Small Folk - don't really bother with a name for them and just say "Kin", but there are two major Kin-subraces the Njoma (Gnomes) and the Kjenda (Kender/Halflings)
Some people may consider these names offensive. I'm not going to say that they are wrong.
Even if DnD is supposed to be some kind of reflection of our society.
That having been said, I think "Kith" is an excellent option for Halfling. It very much reflects, in my mind, the idea of a tight-knit society working together to accomplish goals. They might see that tight-knit culture as their defining characteristic and as being much further developed among their people than among the larger folk. They might refer to themselves behind closed doors as "the Kindred" and think of anyone who lacks the tight-knit culture as less evolved. The problem I would have with this, though, is that they are a Dex-based race and Dex-Based races tend to be either Rogues or Rangers (which are both classes marked as set off from a sense of belonging to a community). I'd suggest that Halflings could choose between a bonus to Dex or Wis.
Dwarves, in particular with their bonus to strength and endurance, have no connotation of being weak or lesser than. They are one of the main races chosen for fighters.
You mention, as have others using the word "Kith" as an option for Halflings. I looked up the definition of the word.
With that as a definition, why would you use as an alternative to calling a Halfling a Halfling? I am just wondering.
Same reason why some groups refer to themselves by a word that means "the people" in their language. Kith is basically anyone who stands by you but isn't related by blood. The Changeling: the Dreaming line from White Wolf's World of Darkness used the term "kithbook" for racial sourcebooks.
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In my setting fey creatures are personifications of fate, thus magically entangle the fates of humans.
In this way, fey creatures speak the same language that humans do. The languages and ethnic appearances of the fates vary by human region.
In a setting where all humans speak the same language, Common, the spirits of fate also speak only one language.
I tend to view the languages like Elven, Dwarven, Giant, Draconic, Celestial, not as languages, but as magical techniques, analogous to computer code. Different magical languages are quite different from each other. Celestial involves writing, where the shapes of letters contain magical data. Giant is entirely oral, albeit runes can improvisationally imprint orally formed data. Dwarven is more elemental, somewhat like chemistry. Elven is more astronomical, involving space-time.
I view Halfling as an other branch of the Human species, Floresienses. (Depending on setting, I also view Orc as an other branch of the Human species, Neanderthal.) Even if all Sapiens speak Common, Halfling and Orc preserve their own languages, unrelated to Common. Halflings who live among Humans have assimilated and only speak Common, even if they know that the Halfling language exists.
In sum, when it comes spoken languages in D&D, I treat every humanoid as if speaking the same language in Common. And Common is moreorless reallife English. So whatever sounds offensive in English, will also sound offensive in Common.
In Dragonlance Halflings are called Kender and if someone feels the name Halfling is insulting then I would have them refer to them as Kender (or Kithkin if they are familiar with MTG or Hobbit if they are familiar with LotR). As for dwarf, Dwarf is actually a corruption of an actual norse word and has only recently come to refer to something as being smaller than normal. To me an my players the original meaning of Dwarf (as from the same root word as Dweomer) is taken to mean that of the dwarven folk, the spirts of the earth who dwell below ground from which the word originates.
Concerning the LotR, I understand the estate of JRR Tolkien requested the D&D creators to abstain from using Hobbit as the term for the diminutive humanoids in Dungeons and Dragons, and that is how the term Halfling came into being. But ...
In the movies, which I believe were true to the books on this point, Gollum was "a Halfling, not unlike a Hobbit." And then Gandolf goes on to tell the story of how Gollum came to be in possession (funny word, for the Ring came to possess Gollum) of the One Ring. So I guess JRR Tolkien invented the name Halfling as a race similar in stature to Hobbits. I know Dwarves and Elves were names of mythical races from a very very long time ago, but I wonder when Halfling came to be a name, if it was before JRR Tolkien named them in his book. It seems this must have been the case, because the estate didn't protest D&D switching to Halflings.
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Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt
I believe the Drow were based off the Dokkalfar/Svartalfar while their fairer skinned cousins were based off the Ljosalfar, if memory serves.
In the Forgotten Realms, though, the Drow, previously known as the Ssri-TelíQuessir to other elves, lived above ground. They were referred to as "Dark Elves" because of their worship of evil gods (ie. Ghaunadaur, Vhaeraun,and Lolth). At the end of the Crown War, Corellon transformed them into what they are now and they were banished to the Underdark. It's not so much that they "evolved" to have dark skin, it was forced upon them by deific magics.
Check out "Drizzt Do'Urden's Guide to the Underdark" for more information if you're interested.
Much appreciated!
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
And none of this applies to Greyhawk, where Drow were originally conceived. They were not cursed by Corellon Larethian, otherwise Gygax would have written it to be so. They were driven underground, along with the Derro, Duergar and Kuo-Toa, but the similarity to Drow of Faerun ends there.
That is an add-on "history" so not necessarily true.
But also WAY off from talking about Halflings.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
Yellow flag on the field; "No True Scotsman" fallacy detected in play. 15 yard penalty.
...
Seriously. If it's from an officially-recognized source - which absolutely any non-fanfic Drizz't source by definition is - then it's not "add-on", it's D&D's official take on the race.
Yeah.
I just read the original Vault of Drow by Gygax. The drow entry says, when elves "were new to the face of the earth", they split, and the "elves" ( = high elves) and the "faeries" ( = grey elves with purple eyes) drove them underground. There, the drow ended up preferring the underground, and no longer wished to live on the surface.
My adaption of Gygax is. Grey elves materialized from the faerie realm into the material plane. There within the material, they split into drow and high elves. Thus there are no drow in the faerie realm.
he / him
I vaguely remember, in a previous version of the Forgotten Realms setting, the drow as "dark elves" originally had brown skin. They were cursed to have black skin because they were evil. The ones who repented were allowed to have light blue skin. So all three colors coexist. Additionally some of the evil black drow have "albinos" who can pass as high elves.
he / him
You sure you want to be throwing that language about?
Official recognized source (All of them) say that Halflings are Halflings and Dwarves are Dwarves and none of them are insulted by their name.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
Keep in mind that "Drizzt Do'urden's Guide to the Underdark" is not information from an omniscient source. It's Drizzt's opinion, what he was taught, what he believes to be true. The same applies to Volo's guides. It's certainly a source with a fair amount of credibility, but being presented as such leaves enough wriggle room to argue it possibly, maybe, could be different. Something like the Monster Manual contains information that should be considered 100% absolutely correct. Guides purportedly provided by fictional characters that are part of the fictional setting should be considered well-researched (but not necessarily even objective) opinions.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
Writer's fiat. The black skin would allow them to blend in with the darkness of their subterrainian environments, but the white hair screws with that—so apparently it wasn't an environmental adaptation (and the fact that drow wear clothing that covers most of their skin means that black skin only minimally would affect their ability to blend with darkness). In the Forgotten Realms, at least, the ancestors of the drow were dark-skinned before they turned evil (though their dark skin was turned black when they were cursed by Corellon). Also, dark skin would "do them good" on the surface (depending on the environmet that the originally lived—ark skin blocks more UV radiation than light skin), but like I inferred, the out-of-game reason for their dark skin in very unlikely to do with environmental adaptation.
Citation needed. I see no official source that specifically staes whether or not any individual member of said species or the species collectively are insulted by the human terms for their species. Also, official sources have Halflings and Dwarves having different names in their own language ("Hin" and "Dwar", respectively). While it's doubtful that most dwarves (except, maybe, the most extreme linguistic purests) take offence at "dwarf", given that it seems to be derived from their endonym, halflings are a different matter. "Halfling" comes across as demeaning, degrading, or, at best, rather patronizing whether or not that that is the intention of those using the term. Whether halflings take offence, roll their eyes, or just roll with it could depend on the individual.
Whatever you choose, I think that the topic is interesting and worth exploring from a world-building and role-playing perspective and can make for a more nuanced and verisimilar setting.
Thats the word. Calling someone a halfling can be endearing ... or patronizing. Context matters. For some cultures it seems unrealistic to call themselves by a potentially insulting name. Then again, in a culture of nicknames, an unflattering name is worn ironically, with humor and pride.
Consider the song "Yankee Doodle Dandy", originally an insult that Americans loved and embraced.
he / him
Fire away. Show me in official rules content where they are insulted by the names Halfling and Dwarf.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
You mention, as have others using the word "Kith" as an option for Halflings. I looked up the definition of the word.
With that as a definition, why would you use as an alternative to calling a Halfling a Halfling? I am just wondering.
In my world lore, the Words "Dwarf", "Elf", or "Halfling" are basically human/common terms for those races, derived from their own words.
The dwarven race is called Duèrg in their own language. Duèrgrim (Hill or Surface Dwarves), Duèrgin (Mountain Dwarves), and Duèrgar (Deep Dwarves).
Similar to this, the Elves call themselves the "El", with Elwèn (Wood Elves), Eladrin (High Elves), Elûne (Night/Moon Elves), and Eldàr ("True" Elves aka Drow)
The Halflings - or Small Folk - don't really bother with a name for them and just say "Kin", but there are two major Kin-subraces the Njoma (Gnomes) and the Kjenda (Kender/Halflings)
Same reason why some groups refer to themselves by a word that means "the people" in their language. Kith is basically anyone who stands by you but isn't related by blood. The Changeling: the Dreaming line from White Wolf's World of Darkness used the term "kithbook" for racial sourcebooks.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
In my setting fey creatures are personifications of fate, thus magically entangle the fates of humans.
In this way, fey creatures speak the same language that humans do. The languages and ethnic appearances of the fates vary by human region.
In a setting where all humans speak the same language, Common, the spirits of fate also speak only one language.
I tend to view the languages like Elven, Dwarven, Giant, Draconic, Celestial, not as languages, but as magical techniques, analogous to computer code. Different magical languages are quite different from each other. Celestial involves writing, where the shapes of letters contain magical data. Giant is entirely oral, albeit runes can improvisationally imprint orally formed data. Dwarven is more elemental, somewhat like chemistry. Elven is more astronomical, involving space-time.
I view Halfling as an other branch of the Human species, Floresienses. (Depending on setting, I also view Orc as an other branch of the Human species, Neanderthal.) Even if all Sapiens speak Common, Halfling and Orc preserve their own languages, unrelated to Common. Halflings who live among Humans have assimilated and only speak Common, even if they know that the Halfling language exists.
In sum, when it comes spoken languages in D&D, I treat every humanoid as if speaking the same language in Common. And Common is moreorless reallife English. So whatever sounds offensive in English, will also sound offensive in Common.
he / him
In Dragonlance Halflings are called Kender and if someone feels the name Halfling is insulting then I would have them refer to them as Kender (or Kithkin if they are familiar with MTG or Hobbit if they are familiar with LotR). As for dwarf, Dwarf is actually a corruption of an actual norse word and has only recently come to refer to something as being smaller than normal. To me an my players the original meaning of Dwarf (as from the same root word as Dweomer) is taken to mean that of the dwarven folk, the spirts of the earth who dwell below ground from which the word originates.
Concerning the LotR, I understand the estate of JRR Tolkien requested the D&D creators to abstain from using Hobbit as the term for the diminutive humanoids in Dungeons and Dragons, and that is how the term Halfling came into being. But ...
In the movies, which I believe were true to the books on this point, Gollum was "a Halfling, not unlike a Hobbit." And then Gandolf goes on to tell the story of how Gollum came to be in possession (funny word, for the Ring came to possess Gollum) of the One Ring. So I guess JRR Tolkien invented the name Halfling as a race similar in stature to Hobbits. I know Dwarves and Elves were names of mythical races from a very very long time ago, but I wonder when Halfling came to be a name, if it was before JRR Tolkien named them in his book. It seems this must have been the case, because the estate didn't protest D&D switching to Halflings.
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt
Whoa whoa whoa hold up. Halflings and Kender are NOT the same.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale