1) The value of this fighting style feat is the ability to swap from a Str-Con or a Dex-Con build to an Int-Con build.
2) At this point, clarifying and QUANTIFYING the value of an Intelligence swap, would help.
1) It's not. As I pointed out a couple of times already, this is about potentially turning a Str-Int-Con or Dex-Int-Con build into an Int-Con build. Sure, you could use this for an Eldritch Knight who wasn't going to use save-or-suck spells and thus wouldn't need Int, but that's not all you could use it for. It's not a swap, it's a merger. A swap implies a trade of relatively equal values; a merger gives you the sum total of both.
2) Str saves vs int saves is negligible. If you don't need Str to be able to wear armour, it becomes a niche stat that only matters for circumstantial stuff like grapples and the occasional skill check - both of which can, if prepared, be addressed via magic as well. Int on the other hand, if you can put a high stat in there, will let a caster use save-or-suck spells - some of the best available to Eldritch Knights - with decent reliability instead of as a Hail Mary. The value of swapping Int for Str is massive.
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Training in mundane armor, in the first place, makes less sense for a magical combat tradition.
Mage Armor feels more appropriate, whether it looks like "elven chain" or like an invisible telekinetic force.
Mage Armor is something that is available generally to level 1 characters and is especially appropriate for mage Fighters.
Pick the new custom race option and pick up a feat at first level: Magic Initiate Wizard- Mage armor and 2 cantrips.
I appreciate the use of the custom lineage.
At the same time, this solution by itself fails the "feats should be nice not required".
To burn mechanical resources for opportunity costs that achieve the flavor of a character concept, without comparable mechanical benefit, is unsatisfactory.
Also, the problem is the Fighter class itself fails to anticipate its Eldritch Knight, Psi Warrior, and Arcane Archer subclasses. It is the Fighter class itself that needs a solution.
Eldritch Knights are still fighters first. Having access to armors doesn't detract from anything that the EK gives them later. Are you sure you wouldn't be happier playing a Bladesinger?
Eldritch Knights are still fighters first. Having access to armors doesn't detract from anything that the EK gives them later. Are you sure you wouldn't be happier playing a Bladesinger?
This fails the requirements set as you won't become a bladesinger until 2nd level.
Also, the problem is the Fighter class itself fails to anticipate its Eldritch Knight, Psi Warrior, and Arcane Archer subclasses. It is the Fighter class itself that needs a solution.
This is a problem with ALL classes that do not give a subclass at 1st level which is a lot.
Its more of a general design of the game....you would need to make a lot of changes to make this even across the board.
Easier to just do a feat at first level or simply start at level 3.
But you'll be a wizard at level 1. Mage armor, cantrips, etc. It's everything he's looking for at level 1. The only differences is d6 instead of a d10 hit dice. It's still MAD but MAD is not that bad.
But you'll be a wizard at level 1. Mage armor, cantrips, etc. It's everything he's looking for at level 1. The only differences is d6 instead of a d10 hit dice. It's still MAD but MAD is not that bad.
Its a terrible martial option at level 1 which if you are going EK would be more important I would think but I don't want to assume.
You lack proficiency in martial weapons/shields and are in no real way a martial character. But thats my opinion.
If you go high elf, you get Long swords which is seemingly what he wants to use anyway. No shields, but you do get [spell]Shield[/shield]. Could still use the homebrew cantrip to make it less MAD.
Elf Shot Enchantment cantrip Casting time: 1 action Range: 100 feet Components: S, M (longbow or shortbow) Duration: instantaneous
You send forth an invisible arrow-like missile that inflicts sudden mysterious pain. Make a ranged spell attack against a target creature. On a successful hit, that target takes 1d8 psychic damage. If this damage reduces the target to zero hit points, the target is not dying, but instead incurs the paralyzed condition for 24 hours. In addition, one side of the body suffers partial paralysis thereby a disadvantage for d20 rolls that use this side, for a duration of an additional week for each time the target fails a death save. A stone arrowhead, such as of flint, quartz, or obsidian, materializes on the ground near a target that is reduced to zero hit points. Methods that remove the paralyzed condition also end the paralysis and the disadvantage incurred from the Elf Shot. At higher levels, you can send an additional Elf Shot at level 5, level 11, and level 17. You can also send one Elf Shot in place of an Extra Attack.
Eldritch Knights are still fighters first. Having access to armors doesn't detract from anything that the EK gives them later. Are you sure you wouldn't be happier playing a Bladesinger?
This fails the requirements set as you won't become a bladesinger until 2nd level.
Also, the problem is the Fighter class itself fails to anticipate its Eldritch Knight, Psi Warrior, and Arcane Archer subclasses. It is the Fighter class itself that needs a solution.
This is a problem with ALL classes that do not give a subclass at 1st level which is a lot.
Its more of a general design of the game....you would need to make a lot of changes to make this even across the board.
Easier to just do a feat at first level or simply start at level 3.
I strongly agree 5e made a mistake when deferring the subclass to later levels.
At the same time, I feel the Fighter class suffers exceptionally from this mistake.
I suggest that the Int bonus to hit applies only to weapons that can be finessed.
With the version using the Elf Sword cantrip, the Int applies to the longsword only, and no other weapons. This helps make sense of the high elf flavor, and curbs the Int benefit.
If not for the odd high elf longsword proficiency, I would go the route of finesse weapons.
Lots of racial and background abilities can be reflavored as being magical in nature. Some races can even have actual magic at their disposal innately from level 1. Most Fighting Styles can likewise be explained as being magical, or even more easily psychic, rather than the result of training. It's not that hard to give your character a particular style or flavour without needing an explicit mechanic to support it.
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Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
Lots of racial and background abilities can be reflavored as being magical in nature. Some races can even have actual magic at their disposal innately from level 1. Most Fighting Styles can likewise be explained as being magical, or even more easily psychic, rather than the result of training. It's not that hard to give your character a particular style or flavour without needing an explicit mechanic to support it.
For my gaming sensibilities, mechanics matter. And mechanics and flavor need to be coherent with each other.
In sum: Intelligence doesnt really matter for Eldritch Knight spellcasting.
Below is a list of the decent Eldritch Knight spells. Generally, the spell must be either evocation or abjuration, a restriction that severely limits the spells available.
From level 3 and for most of the career of the Eldritch Knight, Shield and Magic Missile do the heavy lifting, and these two spells can dump Intelligence.
At level 3, the Eldritch Knight can also know one spell that is non-evocation and non-abjuration. This one spell offers a repeatable spell like Find Familiar (to gain advantage in combat) or Expeditious Retreat, that can also dump Intelligence.
At level 7, the slot 2 spells come online. Unfortunately, the evocation and abjuration spells from slot 2 are meh. The Eldritch Knight will probably be using slot 2 to for slot 1 spells like Magic Missile and even Shield.
At level 8, one spell known can be non-evocation and non-abjuration. Thus a choice of one useful non-Intelligence spell is possible, like Blur, Misty Step, Invisibility, or Levitation (for Dex ranged attacks).
Only if the Eldritch Knight reaches level 13, when slot 3 spells come online, does Intelligence seem nice for the damage spells. Nevertheless, non-Intelligence spells like Intellect Fortress are still appealing.
At level 14, one slot 3 non-evocation non-abjuration spell can be known, which opens the door wide for a repeatable non-Intelligence spell like Haste or Fly.
At level 19, one slot 4 becomes available. Maybe for Resilient Sphere or Fire Shield, without Intelligence.
Eldritch Knight Known Spells (spells that can dump Intelligence appear in bold)
Slot 1 Spells at Level 3
Shield (abjuration)
Magic Missile (evocation)
Absorb Elements (abjuration Xanathars)
Thunderwave (evocation) (Int)
Mage Armor (abjuration)
Protection from Evil and Good (abjuration) (Int)
Chromatic Orb (evocation) (Int)
Burning Hands (evocation) (Int)
Alarm (abjuration)
At level 3, one of the three spells that you know can be non-evocation non-abjuration
Find Familiar (conjuration) (to gain advantage)
Hideous Laughter (enchantment) (Int)
Sleep (enchantment)
Expeditious Retreat (transmutation)
Silent Image (illusion) (Int)
Slot 2 Spells at Level 7
but use slot 2 for Magic Missile, Absorb Elements, even Shield
Shatter (evocation) (Int)
Scorching Ray (evocation) (Int)
Scorcher (evocation Xanathars) (Int)
Darkness (evocation)
Continual Flame (evocation)
Arcane Lock (abjuration) (battlefield control to block hostiles)
At level 8, you can know one slot 2 spell that is non-evocation non-abjuration
Suggestion (enchantment) (Int)
Phantasmal Force (illusion) (Int)
Misty Step (conjuration)
Invisibility (illusion) (but Dex Stealth to hide sounds)
Mirror Image (illusion)
Blur (illusion)
Enlarge (transmutation)
Flaming Sphere (conjuration) (Int)
Web (Conjuration) (Int)
Levitate (transmutation) (for Dex Fighter with ranged attacks)
Spider Climb (transmutation)
Alter Self (transmutation)
Magic Mouth (illusion) (valuable because of open-ended trigger, such as, "scream if stolen")
Slot 3 Spells at Level 13
Fireball (evocation) (Int)
Lightning Bolt (evocation) (Int)
Minute Meteors (evocation) (Int)
Intellect Fortress (abjuration Tashas)
Tiny Hut (evocation)
Counter Spell (abjuration) (Int)
Dispel Magic (abjuration) (Int)
Magic Circle (abjuration) (Int)
Remove Curse (abjuration)
At level 14, you can know one slot 3 spell that is non-evocation non-abjuration
Haste (transmutation)
Fly (Dex Fighter with ranged attacks)
Spirit Shroud (necromancy Tashas)
Major Image (illusion) (Int)
Slot 4 Spells at Level 19
Resilient Sphere (evocation) (defensive, but Int to trap hostile)
Fire Shield (evocation)
Storm Sphere (evocation Xanathars) (Int)
Ice Storm (evocation) (Int)
At level 20, you can know one slot 4 spell that is non-evocation non-abjuration
Greater Invisibility (illusion) (but Dex Stealth to hide sounds)
Polymorph (transmutation) (Int)
Black Tentacles (conjuration) (Int)
Dimension Door (conjuration)
Arcane Eye (divination)
Watery Sphere (conjuration Xanathars) (Int)
In sum, the benefits of Intelligence for Eldritch Knight spellcasting are little or nothing, but can become nice at level 13.
1) It's not. As I pointed out a couple of times already, this is about potentially turning a Str-Int-Con or Dex-Int-Con build into an Int-Con build. Sure, you could use this for an Eldritch Knight who wasn't going to use save-or-suck spells and thus wouldn't need Int, but that's not all you could use it for. It's not a swap, it's a merger. A swap implies a trade of relatively equal values; a merger gives you the sum total of both.
2) Str saves vs int saves is negligible. If you don't need Str to be able to wear armour, it becomes a niche stat that only matters for circumstantial stuff like grapples and the occasional skill check - both of which can, if prepared, be addressed via magic as well. Int on the other hand, if you can put a high stat in there, will let a caster use save-or-suck spells - some of the best available to Eldritch Knights - with decent reliability instead of as a Hail Mary. The value of swapping Int for Str is massive.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
That's an annoyance, not a balancing argument.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
Generally what I see the issue is starting at 1st level.
In all honesty I start people at 3rd level at least...even new folks as its easier to define a character with a subclass.
1st and 2nd level is pretty bad IMO but I know some people like it.
I like the zero to hero feel.
The difficulty is, some "zeroes" are inherently magical in origin.
he / him
Then use the 2 cantrips Fighting Style option. Magical origins achieved.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
Training in mundane armor, in the first place, makes less sense for a magical combat tradition.
Mage Armor feels more appropriate, whether it looks like "elven chain" or like an invisible telekinetic force.
Mage Armor is something that is available generally to level 1 characters and is especially appropriate for mage Fighters.
he / him
Pick the new custom race option and pick up a feat at first level: Magic Initiate Wizard- Mage armor and 2 cantrips.
I appreciate the use of the custom lineage.
At the same time, this solution by itself fails the "feats should be nice not required".
To burn mechanical resources for opportunity costs that achieve the flavor of a character concept, without comparable mechanical benefit, is unsatisfactory.
Also, the problem is the Fighter class itself fails to anticipate its Eldritch Knight, Psi Warrior, and Arcane Archer subclasses. It is the Fighter class itself that needs a solution.
he / him
Eldritch Knights are still fighters first. Having access to armors doesn't detract from anything that the EK gives them later. Are you sure you wouldn't be happier playing a Bladesinger?
This fails the requirements set as you won't become a bladesinger until 2nd level.
This is a problem with ALL classes that do not give a subclass at 1st level which is a lot.
Its more of a general design of the game....you would need to make a lot of changes to make this even across the board.
Easier to just do a feat at first level or simply start at level 3.
But you'll be a wizard at level 1. Mage armor, cantrips, etc. It's everything he's looking for at level 1. The only differences is d6 instead of a d10 hit dice. It's still MAD but MAD is not that bad.
Its a terrible martial option at level 1 which if you are going EK would be more important I would think but I don't want to assume.
You lack proficiency in martial weapons/shields and are in no real way a martial character. But thats my opinion.
If you go high elf, you get Long swords which is seemingly what he wants to use anyway. No shields, but you do get [spell]Shield[/shield]. Could still use the homebrew cantrip to make it less MAD.
For the Arcane Archer flavor, here is a cantrip.
Elf Shot
Enchantment cantrip
Casting time: 1 action
Range: 100 feet
Components: S, M (longbow or shortbow)
Duration: instantaneous
You send forth an invisible arrow-like missile that inflicts sudden mysterious pain. Make a ranged spell attack against a target creature. On a successful hit, that target takes 1d8 psychic damage. If this damage reduces the target to zero hit points, the target is not dying, but instead incurs the paralyzed condition for 24 hours. In addition, one side of the body suffers partial paralysis thereby a disadvantage for d20 rolls that use this side, for a duration of an additional week for each time the target fails a death save. A stone arrowhead, such as of flint, quartz, or obsidian, materializes on the ground near a target that is reduced to zero hit points. Methods that remove the paralyzed condition also end the paralysis and the disadvantage incurred from the Elf Shot. At higher levels, you can send an additional Elf Shot at level 5, level 11, and level 17. You can also send one Elf Shot in place of an Extra Attack.
he / him
I strongly agree 5e made a mistake when deferring the subclass to later levels.
At the same time, I feel the Fighter class suffers exceptionally from this mistake.
he / him
I suggest that the Int bonus to hit applies only to weapons that can be finessed.
With the version using the Elf Sword cantrip, the Int applies to the longsword only, and no other weapons. This helps make sense of the high elf flavor, and curbs the Int benefit.
If not for the odd high elf longsword proficiency, I would go the route of finesse weapons.
he / him
Lots of racial and background abilities can be reflavored as being magical in nature. Some races can even have actual magic at their disposal innately from level 1. Most Fighting Styles can likewise be explained as being magical, or even more easily psychic, rather than the result of training. It's not that hard to give your character a particular style or flavour without needing an explicit mechanic to support it.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
For my gaming sensibilities, mechanics matter. And mechanics and flavor need to be coherent with each other.
he / him
In sum: Intelligence doesnt really matter for Eldritch Knight spellcasting.
Below is a list of the decent Eldritch Knight spells. Generally, the spell must be either evocation or abjuration, a restriction that severely limits the spells available.
From level 3 and for most of the career of the Eldritch Knight, Shield and Magic Missile do the heavy lifting, and these two spells can dump Intelligence.
At level 3, the Eldritch Knight can also know one spell that is non-evocation and non-abjuration. This one spell offers a repeatable spell like Find Familiar (to gain advantage in combat) or Expeditious Retreat, that can also dump Intelligence.
At level 7, the slot 2 spells come online. Unfortunately, the evocation and abjuration spells from slot 2 are meh. The Eldritch Knight will probably be using slot 2 to for slot 1 spells like Magic Missile and even Shield.
At level 8, one spell known can be non-evocation and non-abjuration. Thus a choice of one useful non-Intelligence spell is possible, like Blur, Misty Step, Invisibility, or Levitation (for Dex ranged attacks).
Only if the Eldritch Knight reaches level 13, when slot 3 spells come online, does Intelligence seem nice for the damage spells. Nevertheless, non-Intelligence spells like Intellect Fortress are still appealing.
At level 14, one slot 3 non-evocation non-abjuration spell can be known, which opens the door wide for a repeatable non-Intelligence spell like Haste or Fly.
At level 19, one slot 4 becomes available. Maybe for Resilient Sphere or Fire Shield, without Intelligence.
Eldritch Knight Known Spells
(spells that can dump Intelligence appear in bold)
Slot 1 Spells at Level 3
At level 3, one of the three spells that you know can be non-evocation non-abjuration
Slot 2 Spells at Level 7
At level 8, you can know one slot 2 spell that is non-evocation non-abjuration
Slot 3 Spells at Level 13
At level 14, you can know one slot 3 spell that is non-evocation non-abjuration
Slot 4 Spells at Level 19
At level 20, you can know one slot 4 spell that is non-evocation non-abjuration
In sum, the benefits of Intelligence for Eldritch Knight spellcasting are little or nothing, but can become nice at level 13.
he / him