This is from the RIme of the Frostmaiden: A friendly spellcaster will charge 25 gp for a 1st-level spell, 50 gp for one that uses a 2nd-level spell slot, or 150 gp for one that uses a 3rd-level spell slot, plus the cost of any expensive material components.
This is from the RIme of the Frostmaiden: A friendly spellcaster will charge 25 gp for a 1st-level spell, 50 gp for one that uses a 2nd-level spell slot, or 150 gp for one that uses a 3rd-level spell slot, plus the cost of any expensive material components.
But one might consider these "friendly" prices, since the PCs are supposedly on the same side as the caster :-)
This is from the RIme of the Frostmaiden: A friendly spellcaster will charge 25 gp for a 1st-level spell, 50 gp for one that uses a 2nd-level spell slot, or 150 gp for one that uses a 3rd-level spell slot, plus the cost of any expensive material components.
As a simple formula that’s 25 go for a first level spell, and the cost of a higher level spell is equal to the spell level times the cost of a spell one level lower. I appreciate the elegance of this Fibonacci-like progression but it gets expensive really fast. The option mentioned in a post above, 10 gp x spell level x caster level, would put Resurrection at 910 gp (plus materials, of course) - it’s a 7th level spell and the caster needs to be lvl 13 in order to be able to cast it. Using this formula that price would be 126,000 gp for a 7th level spell.
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This is from the RIme of the Frostmaiden: A friendly spellcaster will charge 25 gp for a 1st-level spell, 50 gp for one that uses a 2nd-level spell slot, or 150 gp for one that uses a 3rd-level spell slot, plus the cost of any expensive material components.
As a simple formula that’s 25 go for a first level spell, and the cost of a higher level spell is equal to the spell level times the cost of a spell one level lower. I appreciate the elegance of this Fibonacci-like progression but it gets expensive really fast. The option mentioned in a post above, 10 gp x spell level x caster level, would put Resurrection at 910 gp (plus materials, of course) - it’s a 7th level spell and the caster needs to be lvl 13 in order to be able to cast it. Using this formula that price would be 126,000 gp for a 7th level spell.
126,000 is a much more sensible price for Resurrection than 910.
This is from the RIme of the Frostmaiden: A friendly spellcaster will charge 25 gp for a 1st-level spell, 50 gp for one that uses a 2nd-level spell slot, or 150 gp for one that uses a 3rd-level spell slot, plus the cost of any expensive material components.
As a simple formula that’s 25 go for a first level spell, and the cost of a higher level spell is equal to the spell level times the cost of a spell one level lower. I appreciate the elegance of this Fibonacci-like progression but it gets expensive really fast. The option mentioned in a post above, 10 gp x spell level x caster level, would put Resurrection at 910 gp (plus materials, of course) - it’s a 7th level spell and the caster needs to be lvl 13 in order to be able to cast it. Using this formula that price would be 126,000 gp for a 7th level spell.
126,000 is a much more sensible price for Resurrection than 910.
I don't think either is all that sensible, to be honest. I mean, a magic item worth 50k is supposed to be legendary and suitable for lvl 17+ parties. The price for a Resurrection (not even a True Resurrection!) is supposed to be two and a half times as much? That much will buy you 5 warships as well,
I think the same scheme but starting at 10 gp for a lvl 1 spell is more suitable. That makes it 10 gp > 20 gp > 60 gp > 240 gp > 1,200 gp > 7,200 gp > 50,400 gp > 403,200 gp > 3,625,600 gp as ballpark figures for spells (so about 50k for Resurrection). For 10 gp you can get a seat at a banquet or a 1st level spell, for 60 gp you can take on a skilled hireling for a month or a 3r level spell, for 50,000 gp you can own a galley and cover operational costs for a year or two or afford a Resurrection. Seems about right to me.
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One think that probably should be mentioned, is that resurrection might often be an overkill, at spell level 5, you get raise dead, which would be enough in many situations.
One other think worth checking might be the scroll scibing cost in xanathar -> level 7 scroll would cost 25k and take 16 weeks to make.
Quite frankly, I'd say that a spell like Resurrection should be effectively priceless since there are so few NPCs capable of casting it for you. Payment for a spell of that level shouldn't be in mere gold but should require some sort of significant service, instead.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
If you put the price in the mid five figures, that’s going to be a “is there perhaps a favour we can do for you or the church instead?” proposition for most parties anyway, or a “we’re going to need a bigger hoard” kind of quest. PCs able to cough up 50k gold with little trouble are usually at a level where they could just cast Resurrection themselves if they have the right type of character with them. Getting the money, doing the favour, finding the priest, all grist for the DM’s adventure mill.
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Gold price being the barrier for resurrection is a terrible solution.
Let's ignore deity intervention for a minute and assume that everyone can be raised as long as a sufficiently high level cleric in a temple is found and gold provided.
My question would be - taking verisimilitude into account, why would that cleric make it nearly impossible for anyone to afford the spell? It doesn't make sense. Casting the spell costs them nothing - only a spell level slot, not even material components since those are provided by the petitioners.
I get it that it shouldn't be dirt cheap but puting a price tag of 100k+ gold pieces is just stupid. Put it at 5-10k and see how much more money flows into the temple. It's basic business model. If it costs you hardly anything, make it so as many people can buy it as possible.
It only works if clerics don't do that for temple or their own profit AND are held accountable to a higher power.
So, the price tag should be a minor factor at best. Clerics should be wary of raising unknown people and flat out refusing to do so for certain individuals. They should charge some gold AND a favor for a temple.
Sure, it's one spell per day but unless there is a literal line to the temple of ultra rich noblemen each willing to pay half of their estate to resurrect someone, then it makes no sense to put an absurdly high price on a renewable resource that refreshes every day.
You are right that this is not what religion is (or should? I mean, they do need money) about that's why I put the disclaimer first.
FR has it handled. Since 1491 (Death Masks by Ed Greenwood) gods by default flat out refuse to raise someone whose resurrection does not further their goals and is misaligned with their character. Only rare exceptions are permissible. There are laws in place that actually forbid the practice because of succession headaches. As such it grew into custom.
But that is FR. If someone fancies themselves a setting where clerics don't need to worship anything to get their powers and are not held accountable to anyone then they have to think of something. Matt Mercer's resurrection rules are not bad starting point.
As Cyrasil said, there’s also the much more affordable Raise Dead, which can be cast by a lvl 9 Cleric rather than needing one at lvl 13 or higher. Raise Dead gives a 10 day window, which is plenty for most unnatural deaths that didn’t occur while adventuring in some remote middle-of-nowhere area (and with teleport/travel magic that shouldn’t be an absolute impediment in those instances either). Given that I’d peg 5th level spells at 1,200 gp, I don’t think there’s a material barrier to bringing someone back from beyond the veil - a skilled hireling might be able to pay that back to the church over 2 years or so, and for the rich and powerful that’s pretty much just a matter of opening a money chest.
In practice, the DM decides. That’s what it always come down to. The DM tells the players what it’s going to take. But DM-PCs dynamic aside, it’s a service that’s available in the game. Services have a cost. It doesn’t hurt to have an indication of what that cost might be, even if for the purposes of the party the DM can go with something else entirely.
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Sure, it's one spell per day but unless there is a literal line to the temple of ultra rich noblemen each willing to pay half of their estate to resurrect someone, then it makes no sense to put an absurdly high price on a renewable resource that refreshes every day.
You are right that this is not what religion is (or should? I mean, they do need money) about that's why I put the disclaimer first.
FR has it handled. Since 1491 (Death Masks by Ed Greenwood) gods by default flat out refuse to raise someone whose resurrection does not further their goals and is misaligned with their character. Only rare exceptions are permissible. There are laws in place that actually forbid the practice because of succession headaches. As such it grew into custom.
That's an interesting example, but do you really believe that all the religions in the FR follow the laws ? Especially the bad ones ?
But that is FR. If someone fancies themselves a setting where clerics don't need to worship anything to get their powers and are not held accountable to anyone then they have to think of something. Matt Mercer's resurrection rules are not bad starting point.
Can you please give an overview of these for those who don't have hundreds of hours to spend on Critical Role ?
Sure, probably not every country has those kind of laws but the gods themselves are much better at policing themselves after 2nd Sundering. Overgod gave them free reign and it ended in a disaster so he recreated Tablets of Fate and gave new rules to the gods. As of now, their influence in the Realms is much more subtle and indirect.
In order to preserve any kind of order, the refusal must come from the deity, making the cleric unable to resurrect just about anyone. Otherwise, if it is up to the clergy, it spells disaster for them.
Imagine you are the only one in the city (or even larger area perhaps) who can raise dead. And then imagine having to say "no" to just about everyone and explain them that you don't do it because it unbalances the natural order. I mean - I would fear for my life in this instance. It would be a matter of time before one crime lord or a noble house hit man gets send to abduct me or my loved ones in order to force me to cast the spell.
So yeah, gods whims and wishes are one way to do it. People flat out not surviving the ritual (as per Mercer's house rule) is another. One way of doing it would be just limiting the accessibility of diamonds in the world. It's easy to gather gold, sure, but you need the diamonds as material component. Make them rarer than they are on Earth. Make it so that it's difficult to obtain diamonds worth 300gp for Revivify but next to impossible to get a 500gp+ diamond for more potent spells.
Not that unlike Revivify, Raise Dead and Resurrection call for a single diamond - now you have a way of curating those spells. Compare it to finding a crown jewel - they are not just there, lying around. True Resurrection goes back to multiple diamonds but by that time you need a 17th level cleric so it kind of takes care of itself.
Many thanks. I must say that I don't like them at all, is that allowed here ? Having a PC fail to return due to one die roll seems extremely unjust to me, and I don't see at all how it makes for a better story. Maybe if players start abusing the deat/raise thing, but in 42+ years of fairly heavy roleplaying I have never seen one table where this was taken casually to the point where steps were needed to prevent the use of the spells.
It's about making the other players' contributions meaningful in a mechanical way, and the dice rolls are there to add tension through the possibility of failure (like they do in most of the game). It's not exactly my cup of tea either, but it works for the people at his table and in the end that's what matters. CR doesn't have a lot of PC deaths, so I don't think it has anything to do with curbing abuse.
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Setting aside the RP elements of setting, deities, character relationships, cosmology, availability, etc...
Do any of the rulebooks provide any usable guidelines for the gp cost of paying for a Raise Dead, Resurrection, True Res, etc?
I'd swear I read something along those lines, but am unable to find such now.
Very helpful comparison, thanks so much!
Typically, the party would be expected to provide the material component on top of that, as well.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
This is from the RIme of the Frostmaiden: A friendly spellcaster will charge 25 gp for a 1st-level spell, 50 gp for one that uses a 2nd-level spell slot, or 150 gp for one that uses a 3rd-level spell slot, plus the cost of any expensive material components.
But one might consider these "friendly" prices, since the PCs are supposedly on the same side as the caster :-)
As a simple formula that’s 25 go for a first level spell, and the cost of a higher level spell is equal to the spell level times the cost of a spell one level lower. I appreciate the elegance of this Fibonacci-like progression but it gets expensive really fast. The option mentioned in a post above, 10 gp x spell level x caster level, would put Resurrection at 910 gp (plus materials, of course) - it’s a 7th level spell and the caster needs to be lvl 13 in order to be able to cast it. Using this formula that price would be 126,000 gp for a 7th level spell.
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126,000 is a much more sensible price for Resurrection than 910.
It's actually 1910, because mats. But yeah, I more or less agree. 2k is really cheap for resurrection - it should be a really rare.
I don't think either is all that sensible, to be honest. I mean, a magic item worth 50k is supposed to be legendary and suitable for lvl 17+ parties. The price for a Resurrection (not even a True Resurrection!) is supposed to be two and a half times as much? That much will buy you 5 warships as well,
I think the same scheme but starting at 10 gp for a lvl 1 spell is more suitable. That makes it 10 gp > 20 gp > 60 gp > 240 gp > 1,200 gp > 7,200 gp > 50,400 gp > 403,200 gp > 3,625,600 gp as ballpark figures for spells (so about 50k for Resurrection). For 10 gp you can get a seat at a banquet or a 1st level spell, for 60 gp you can take on a skilled hireling for a month or a 3r level spell, for 50,000 gp you can own a galley and cover operational costs for a year or two or afford a Resurrection. Seems about right to me.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
One think that probably should be mentioned, is that resurrection might often be an overkill, at spell level 5, you get raise dead, which would be enough in many situations.
One other think worth checking might be the scroll scibing cost in xanathar -> level 7 scroll would cost 25k and take 16 weeks to make.
Quite frankly, I'd say that a spell like Resurrection should be effectively priceless since there are so few NPCs capable of casting it for you. Payment for a spell of that level shouldn't be in mere gold but should require some sort of significant service, instead.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
If you put the price in the mid five figures, that’s going to be a “is there perhaps a favour we can do for you or the church instead?” proposition for most parties anyway, or a “we’re going to need a bigger hoard” kind of quest. PCs able to cough up 50k gold with little trouble are usually at a level where they could just cast Resurrection themselves if they have the right type of character with them. Getting the money, doing the favour, finding the priest, all grist for the DM’s adventure mill.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
Gold price being the barrier for resurrection is a terrible solution.
Let's ignore deity intervention for a minute and assume that everyone can be raised as long as a sufficiently high level cleric in a temple is found and gold provided.
My question would be - taking verisimilitude into account, why would that cleric make it nearly impossible for anyone to afford the spell? It doesn't make sense. Casting the spell costs them nothing - only a spell level slot, not even material components since those are provided by the petitioners.
I get it that it shouldn't be dirt cheap but puting a price tag of 100k+ gold pieces is just stupid. Put it at 5-10k and see how much more money flows into the temple. It's basic business model. If it costs you hardly anything, make it so as many people can buy it as possible.
It only works if clerics don't do that for temple or their own profit AND are held accountable to a higher power.
So, the price tag should be a minor factor at best. Clerics should be wary of raising unknown people and flat out refusing to do so for certain individuals. They should charge some gold AND a favor for a temple.
Thanks, folks, this has been very illuminating and definitely solidified some of my waffling thoughts on the topic.
Sure, it's one spell per day but unless there is a literal line to the temple of ultra rich noblemen each willing to pay half of their estate to resurrect someone, then it makes no sense to put an absurdly high price on a renewable resource that refreshes every day.
You are right that this is not what religion is (or should? I mean, they do need money) about that's why I put the disclaimer first.
FR has it handled. Since 1491 (Death Masks by Ed Greenwood) gods by default flat out refuse to raise someone whose resurrection does not further their goals and is misaligned with their character. Only rare exceptions are permissible. There are laws in place that actually forbid the practice because of succession headaches. As such it grew into custom.
But that is FR. If someone fancies themselves a setting where clerics don't need to worship anything to get their powers and are not held accountable to anyone then they have to think of something. Matt Mercer's resurrection rules are not bad starting point.
As Cyrasil said, there’s also the much more affordable Raise Dead, which can be cast by a lvl 9 Cleric rather than needing one at lvl 13 or higher. Raise Dead gives a 10 day window, which is plenty for most unnatural deaths that didn’t occur while adventuring in some remote middle-of-nowhere area (and with teleport/travel magic that shouldn’t be an absolute impediment in those instances either). Given that I’d peg 5th level spells at 1,200 gp, I don’t think there’s a material barrier to bringing someone back from beyond the veil - a skilled hireling might be able to pay that back to the church over 2 years or so, and for the rich and powerful that’s pretty much just a matter of opening a money chest.
In practice, the DM decides. That’s what it always come down to. The DM tells the players what it’s going to take. But DM-PCs dynamic aside, it’s a service that’s available in the game. Services have a cost. It doesn’t hurt to have an indication of what that cost might be, even if for the purposes of the party the DM can go with something else entirely.
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There are also godless ways to cast raise dead - Bards, Alchemists and Divine souls have access to raise dead themselves, without gods being involved
I don't use them myself, but: https://geekandsundry.com/use-critical-roles-resurrection-rules-in-your-own-campaign/
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Sure, probably not every country has those kind of laws but the gods themselves are much better at policing themselves after 2nd Sundering. Overgod gave them free reign and it ended in a disaster so he recreated Tablets of Fate and gave new rules to the gods. As of now, their influence in the Realms is much more subtle and indirect.
In order to preserve any kind of order, the refusal must come from the deity, making the cleric unable to resurrect just about anyone. Otherwise, if it is up to the clergy, it spells disaster for them.
Imagine you are the only one in the city (or even larger area perhaps) who can raise dead. And then imagine having to say "no" to just about everyone and explain them that you don't do it because it unbalances the natural order. I mean - I would fear for my life in this instance. It would be a matter of time before one crime lord or a noble house hit man gets send to abduct me or my loved ones in order to force me to cast the spell.
So yeah, gods whims and wishes are one way to do it. People flat out not surviving the ritual (as per Mercer's house rule) is another. One way of doing it would be just limiting the accessibility of diamonds in the world. It's easy to gather gold, sure, but you need the diamonds as material component. Make them rarer than they are on Earth. Make it so that it's difficult to obtain diamonds worth 300gp for Revivify but next to impossible to get a 500gp+ diamond for more potent spells.
Not that unlike Revivify, Raise Dead and Resurrection call for a single diamond - now you have a way of curating those spells. Compare it to finding a crown jewel - they are not just there, lying around. True Resurrection goes back to multiple diamonds but by that time you need a 17th level cleric so it kind of takes care of itself.
It's about making the other players' contributions meaningful in a mechanical way, and the dice rolls are there to add tension through the possibility of failure (like they do in most of the game). It's not exactly my cup of tea either, but it works for the people at his table and in the end that's what matters. CR doesn't have a lot of PC deaths, so I don't think it has anything to do with curbing abuse.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].