1) I would be hesitant to take a feat just to get a +2 damage. I am currently playing a Bladesinger and every combat I whip out Shadowblade. Working on ways to keep that active is far more valuable, warcaster or resilince con, and I'm even toying with booming blade + shadow blade. Also, the somatic portion of cantrips can be an issue if you decide to try dual wielding.
2) Artificer isn't terrible as a multiclass in general. It will slow your spell progression and doesn't add much to a Bladesinger. Since you're using an action to cast most spells that require material components then having a free hand is as easy as only have a 1 handed weapon out or just putting it away for this turn. The somatic portion is more important (see warcaster).
Shadowblade in your off hand with a shortsword booming blade in your main hand is absolutely a viable combo.
At 6th level it will do 3d8+2d6+6 damage for an average of 26.5. (Or 31 if Shadowblade cast with a 3rd level slot) assuming the extra 2d8 from the Booming Blade does not get to happen but if it does then you are at 35.5 (40 with upcast Shadowblade.) Note that using an upcast Shadowblade in the primary hand with a shortsword in the off will do 36.5 on average. A Bladesinger will usually be better off using their concentration on Summon Fey for damage, especially after they hit 7th level and can cast it with a 4th level slot. The Fey gets something like 4d6+14 in attacks then, easily outperforming the 3d8 from a Shadowblade.
2) bladesingers are one of the few wizard classes that do not really need to dip.
They are armor restricted so the medium armor proficiency of the artificer doesn't help
Their bladesong gives them a bigger bonus to concentration checks than constitution proficiency (and you can always stack it with resilient con).
The artificer can gets a few nice spells at 1st level but not multiclassing means they get their feats earlier and access to spells earlier
I'm not saying you should ignore the combat abilities of the bladesinger but the primary benefit to me is the fact that you don't need to multiclass them.
This is certainly true, but the warcaster feat solves that issue. My comment was ment for Deshiba who said that the warcaster feat wouldn't be enough.
The warcaster feat still isn't enough because it still doesn't solve the fact that you can only do 1 interaction. You can't cast levitate on yourself and bonus attack trough two weapon fighting in 1 turn. In order to actually cast and fight with 2 weapons you have to give up the advantage that 2 weapon fighting gives. Other casters turned fighters do get to use their swords as focuses, for example:
Bards from College of swords
Warlocks from The Hexblade (Improved Pact Weapon)
Monks with way of the four elements are fighters turned magicians that don't have the same problem because they simply ignore material costs. But just like Eldritch Knights, Bladesingers CAN dual wield, it's just not optimal to do so because they lack the ability to cast material cost spells during combat. It seems to me like you have to cast a concentration spell and go in bladesinger mode and then not cast anything for the rest of combat.
Assuming you have Warcaster, the best solution if you want two weapon fighting is the Ruby of the War Mage, or another weapon that behaves in the same way. The cost is an attunement slot.
I did this with my Bladesinger for a while, but I found as I gained higher levels, I would be casting bigger spells than the cantrips, and it rarely paid off and ended up no longer using it. But your mileage may vary based on the DM you play with.
Always remember that you're still a Wizard. Bladesong is good for defense and taking the place of times that you need to protect concentration and would otherwise just use cantrips, but by late tier 2 and into tier 3 it's just not going to be effective as the primary tool for combat compared to your spellcasting. In other words, it doesn't turn a Wizard into a gish.
As someone who is playing a blade singer wizard I would disagree. I've done over 120 damage in one turn with melee attacks.
And? Martial builds can't do just as much, more consistently, with better defenses? I also didn't say you should never use Bladesong to attack. In fact, I said quite the opposite, that you should attack with it when you would otherwise use cantrips, after your big spell is cast.
My point is that whatever damage you can nova, often using multiple rounds to setup, still pales in comparison to what Wizards do. Wall of Force, Mass Suggestion, Forcecage, Simulacrum, Reverse Gravity, Maze, Meteor Swarm, True Polymorph, Wish... these spells just win fights, from safety. Don't confuse that statement as an attack on Bladesingers. Just because you get an ability that gives you some melee attack boosts doesn't mean that's all a Bladesinger is. Bladesong and armor proficiency are very good abilities and they can reduce or remove the need for other defensive abilities like Mage Armor, Shield, or feats to protect Concentration. This allows the Wizard more character options and more resources to spend on even better spellcasting.
Just because you get Extra Attack doesn't mean you should be attacking all the time. Just like Evokers getting Potent Cantrip doesn't mean they should be casting cantrips all the time.
Treatmonk has made similar points and I've had the same reaction... If someone is picking bladesinger with the intent to play it as a gish type character, telling them that they'd do better by focusing on regular spell casting isn't actually addressing the fantasy that person is going for.
I haven't yet had the pleasure of playing a bladesinger, but if I did, it wouldnt matter to me if fireball would deal more damage than using shadow blade for example, because I would have specifically picked the bladesinger with the intent to use use martial enhancing spells and not just cast the same kinda spells any wizard would.
I'm a big believer in doing things effectively, but for it to have any value it needs to be within the fantasy and concept of the character you're playing righ?
I can see where this can be an issue. I'm just now jumping into an ongoing campaign at lvl 8 as a Shadar-Kai Bladesinger. My intent is to go in using Shadow Blade and a Scimitar. Attack with Shadow Blade, Booming Blade with Scimitar from other hand, Bonus Action Duel Wield attack with Shadow Blade again. Now to address using Shield or Absorb Elements as a reaction. My guy has his Arcane Grimoire strapped to him with some leather binding and straps. It's secure to not fall out through the acrobatics I intend to use with him, but still exposed enough to touch as a focus. With Shadow Blade you just let go with that hand, and it disappears. There's no dropping it or need to pick it back up. Just open hand, touch book, cast spell. Then, on my next turn he'll use his Bonus Action to bring the Shadow Blade back, Attack Action one attack with it, then Booming Blade with the Scimitar. Seems like it would work to me.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
1) I would be hesitant to take a feat just to get a +2 damage. I am currently playing a Bladesinger and every combat I whip out Shadowblade. Working on ways to keep that active is far more valuable, warcaster or resilince con, and I'm even toying with booming blade + shadow blade. Also, the somatic portion of cantrips can be an issue if you decide to try dual wielding.
2) Artificer isn't terrible as a multiclass in general. It will slow your spell progression and doesn't add much to a Bladesinger. Since you're using an action to cast most spells that require material components then having a free hand is as easy as only have a 1 handed weapon out or just putting it away for this turn. The somatic portion is more important (see warcaster).
Very late to reply but booming cant work with Shadow Blade.
Shadowblade in your off hand with a shortsword booming blade in your main hand is absolutely a viable combo.
At 6th level it will do 3d8+2d6+6 damage for an average of 26.5. (Or 31 if Shadowblade cast with a 3rd level slot) assuming the extra 2d8 from the Booming Blade does not get to happen but if it does then you are at 35.5 (40 with upcast Shadowblade.) Note that using an upcast Shadowblade in the primary hand with a shortsword in the off will do 36.5 on average. A Bladesinger will usually be better off using their concentration on Summon Fey for damage, especially after they hit 7th level and can cast it with a 4th level slot. The Fey gets something like 4d6+14 in attacks then, easily outperforming the 3d8 from a Shadowblade.
1) +2 damage is not worth a feat.
2) bladesingers are one of the few wizard classes that do not really need to dip.
I'm not saying you should ignore the combat abilities of the bladesinger but the primary benefit to me is the fact that you don't need to multiclass them.
Assuming you have Warcaster, the best solution if you want two weapon fighting is the Ruby of the War Mage, or another weapon that behaves in the same way. The cost is an attunement slot.
I did this with my Bladesinger for a while, but I found as I gained higher levels, I would be casting bigger spells than the cantrips, and it rarely paid off and ended up no longer using it. But your mileage may vary based on the DM you play with.
Always remember that you're still a Wizard. Bladesong is good for defense and taking the place of times that you need to protect concentration and would otherwise just use cantrips, but by late tier 2 and into tier 3 it's just not going to be effective as the primary tool for combat compared to your spellcasting. In other words, it doesn't turn a Wizard into a gish.
As someone who is playing a blade singer wizard I would disagree. I've done over 120 damage in one turn with melee attacks.
And? Martial builds can't do just as much, more consistently, with better defenses? I also didn't say you should never use Bladesong to attack. In fact, I said quite the opposite, that you should attack with it when you would otherwise use cantrips, after your big spell is cast.
My point is that whatever damage you can nova, often using multiple rounds to setup, still pales in comparison to what Wizards do. Wall of Force, Mass Suggestion, Forcecage, Simulacrum, Reverse Gravity, Maze, Meteor Swarm, True Polymorph, Wish... these spells just win fights, from safety. Don't confuse that statement as an attack on Bladesingers. Just because you get an ability that gives you some melee attack boosts doesn't mean that's all a Bladesinger is. Bladesong and armor proficiency are very good abilities and they can reduce or remove the need for other defensive abilities like Mage Armor, Shield, or feats to protect Concentration. This allows the Wizard more character options and more resources to spend on even better spellcasting.
Just because you get Extra Attack doesn't mean you should be attacking all the time. Just like Evokers getting Potent Cantrip doesn't mean they should be casting cantrips all the time.
Treatmonk has made similar points and I've had the same reaction... If someone is picking bladesinger with the intent to play it as a gish type character, telling them that they'd do better by focusing on regular spell casting isn't actually addressing the fantasy that person is going for.
I haven't yet had the pleasure of playing a bladesinger, but if I did, it wouldnt matter to me if fireball would deal more damage than using shadow blade for example, because I would have specifically picked the bladesinger with the intent to use use martial enhancing spells and not just cast the same kinda spells any wizard would.
I'm a big believer in doing things effectively, but for it to have any value it needs to be within the fantasy and concept of the character you're playing righ?
I can see where this can be an issue. I'm just now jumping into an ongoing campaign at lvl 8 as a Shadar-Kai Bladesinger. My intent is to go in using Shadow Blade and a Scimitar. Attack with Shadow Blade, Booming Blade with Scimitar from other hand, Bonus Action Duel Wield attack with Shadow Blade again. Now to address using Shield or Absorb Elements as a reaction. My guy has his Arcane Grimoire strapped to him with some leather binding and straps. It's secure to not fall out through the acrobatics I intend to use with him, but still exposed enough to touch as a focus. With Shadow Blade you just let go with that hand, and it disappears. There's no dropping it or need to pick it back up. Just open hand, touch book, cast spell. Then, on my next turn he'll use his Bonus Action to bring the Shadow Blade back, Attack Action one attack with it, then Booming Blade with the Scimitar. Seems like it would work to me.