There are a lot of game breaking stats being rolled here.
How can they be game breaking? They are legit rolls.
Thus was the point. Golaryn was pointing out how basically none of these arrays are the Munchkin's Paradise Vince was carping about twenty pages ago. Because we're all evil cheating powergamers, don'cha know.
Rolled stats for an NPC the other week, just for shits and giggles. I got two 18's, two 14's, and two 9's. Another time, I forget what the exact values were, but I rolled three of one number and three of another. And shit like that is the reason why I stopped rolling for stats at all...
Point build: set 1 is 27 points (around 39% percentile), set 2 requires pricing stats above 15 but is at least 33 points (around 62nd percentile). For comparison, I did a 'roll 10,000 characters' program and sorted by nominal point value and here are what I got at various percentiles
1st percentile: 9 11 5 14 6 11
5th percentile: 10 11 11 14 8 8
10th percentile: 11 9 11 11 11 13
25th percentile: 14 13 10 14 9 9
50th percentile: 12 12 14 7 15 14
75th percentile: 10 11 12 18 15 12
90th percentile: 10 14 14 11 16 17
95th percentile: 17 14 11 16 14 13
99th percentile: 18 12 16 15 13 15
Interesting. The median score (50th percentile) is a total score of 74. The expected value of the 4d6 method is 12.24 * 6 = 73.44...so pretty much bang on. Standard Array is 72. I think the 75th percentile values are very interesting, given they are way above the SA or 27 point buy, and most players who roll the 4d6 method keep rolling until they get a set like that. Do you have the 55th, 60th, and 65th percentile?
Okay so I guess we're gonna be a grouchy old wizard in a wheelchair named Timonathus "Don't Call Me Tim" Rigg. Not gonna lie I love this method.
For context, by the way, the same rules had no ASIs, but you could lower your Str, Wis, or Int (none of the others) by 2, but I think no lower than 9, to raise your class's primary score by 1. Also, 3=minus 3, 4-5=minus 2, 6-8=minus 1, 9-12=plus 0, 13-15=plus 1, 16-17=plus 2, and 18=plus 3.
Edit: the last page here is proof why rolling stats ain't going away. It's just a ton of fun.
There are a lot of game breaking stats being rolled here.
How can they be game breaking? They are legit rolls.
Thus was the point. Golaryn was pointing out how basically none of these arrays are the Munchkin's Paradise Vince was carping about twenty pages ago. Because we're all evil cheating powergamers, don'cha know.
Thanks Yurei. I thought that was obvious but I guess I was wrong.
There are a lot of game breaking stats being rolled here.
How can they be game breaking? They are legit rolls.
You have a guy who rolled a barbarian with a 5 CON (total of 62!!) and another guy who rolled a total of 78.
You have created a party with a liability and a person who is above average in most things.
THIS is more my problem with the system....the heavy swing you have with characters that creates a headache to balance around.
No, we have a guy who rolled a 5 Con character and decided to turn him into a Barbarian. 4d6 drop lowest, in order, doesn't determine your class for you.
This illustrates that raw stats aren't the sole arbiter of how (in)effective your character is. Your decisions about it in general, both at character creation and during the game, have a big impact on that.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
None of the stat rolling options make you a bad DM or Player until you make an issue of it. Both parties should already know what they want and what they're expecting if they're playing together. If not, then dude, move on to a group that better fits you. Just because your way isn't their way doesn't make either of them wrong. People get so ridiculous on how the game should and shouldn't be played when in fact it's meant to be played as the collective prefers.
Tried doing a roll of 4d6kh, gave the following arrays without any re-tries etc.
11 9 15 11 8 10
I think I'd go along with a 4d6kh if I ever where to die and have to make a new character in our current campaign, granted if allowed by our dear DM and the other players at the table. This rolled array is probably worse than standard array and point buy.
There are a lot of game breaking stats being rolled here.
How can they be game breaking? They are legit rolls.
You have a guy who rolled a barbarian with a 5 CON (total of 62!!) and another guy who rolled a total of 78.
You have created a party with a liability and a person who is above average in most things.
THIS is more my problem with the system....the heavy swing you have with characters that creates a headache to balance around.
No, we have a guy who rolled a 5 Con character and decided to turn him into a Barbarian. 4d6 drop lowest, in order, doesn't determine your class for you.
This illustrates that raw stats aren't the sole arbiter of how (in)effective your character is. Your decisions about it in general, both at character creation and during the game, have a big impact on that.
Hi, that was me from earlier. Just for clarity, I didn't decide intentionally to take the stats and then choose a class afterwards, but had instead listed the class first then did the dice roller thingie and pressed submit post to reveal what the stats in order would be (that is, declaring the class upfront without knowing what the stats would be). While I suppose the stat numbers can be rearranged or a new class specified after the fact, the rolls were merely illustrative in as a what-if scenario.
Happy that you noticed my post nonetheless from earlier, and I hope that it added constructive value to the overall conversations of pros and cons of the stat rolling method.
There are a lot of game breaking stats being rolled here.
How can they be game breaking? They are legit rolls.
You have a guy who rolled a barbarian with a 5 CON (total of 62!!) and another guy who rolled a total of 78.
You have created a party with a liability and a person who is above average in most things.
THIS is more my problem with the system....the heavy swing you have with characters that creates a headache to balance around.
No, we have a guy who rolled a 5 Con character and decided to turn him into a Barbarian. 4d6 drop lowest, in order, doesn't determine your class for you.
This illustrates that raw stats aren't the sole arbiter of how (in)effective your character is. Your decisions about it in general, both at character creation and during the game, have a big impact on that.
Hi, that was me from earlier. Just for clarity, I didn't decide intentionally to take the stats and then choose a class afterwards, but had instead listed the class first then did the dice roller thingie and pressed submit post to reveal what the stats in order would be (that is, declaring the class upfront without knowing what the stats would be). While I suppose the stat numbers can be rearranged or a new class specified after the fact, the rolls were merely illustrative in as a what-if scenario.
Happy that you noticed my post nonetheless from earlier, and I hope that it added constructive value to the overall conversations of pros and cons of the stat rolling method.
That's fine too - I'm just saying your 5 Con barbarian wasn't the result of 4d6 drop lowest. That just determined the stats.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
There are a lot of game breaking stats being rolled here.
How can they be game breaking? They are legit rolls.
You have a guy who rolled a barbarian with a 5 CON (total of 62!!) and another guy who rolled a total of 78.
You have created a party with a liability and a person who is above average in most things.
THIS is more my problem with the system....the heavy swing you have with characters that creates a headache to balance around.
No, we have a guy who rolled a 5 Con character and decided to turn him into a Barbarian. 4d6 drop lowest, in order, doesn't determine your class for you.
This illustrates that raw stats aren't the sole arbiter of how (in)effective your character is. Your decisions about it in general, both at character creation and during the game, have a big impact on that.
Hi, that was me from earlier. Just for clarity, I didn't decide intentionally to take the stats and then choose a class afterwards, but had instead listed the class first then did the dice roller thingie and pressed submit post to reveal what the stats in order would be (that is, declaring the class upfront without knowing what the stats would be). While I suppose the stat numbers can be rearranged or a new class specified after the fact, the rolls were merely illustrative in as a what-if scenario.
Happy that you noticed my post nonetheless from earlier, and I hope that it added constructive value to the overall conversations of pros and cons of the stat rolling method.
Well yeah, obviously it is super hardcore if you are picking a class before you roll for stats in order. I don't think any edition of DnD was that harsh in its entire history - in previous ones you rolled stats first and then picked a class (OD&D, AD&D, AD&D 2e, D&D 3e ). And even then the rolls were treated as if they existed "in vacuum" because you wouldn't decide where to put a score before choosing a class (aside from OD&D where you rolled in order so you basically chose a class based on your rolls).
Though in one of the old ones there were some kind of optional rules that were based on your class - first you chose, say, a fighter and that determined how you rolled for stats. It was something crazy like roll 10d6 drop 7 all but assuring you get an 17-18 but for Int/Wis/Cha you roll 3d6.
The only two editions where you pick class first is 4e and 5e but in both of those you can assign it anyway you want.
My point is you have two characters with 15 points different in their ability stats....
Even if you put your best stats in the right order for the barbarian these other characters will be better at hitting things compared to them simply due to the stat differences. And this is across the board they are worse in everything.
For me the worst part about rolling is this...you have a decent chance to have two characters with wildly different statblocks. The way most people "fix" this is to have a way to mitigate low scores. (Reroll if less than 65)
If you are mitigating low scores with rolls you are pretty much ensuring they will have at least the same or better as point buy.....so why not just do point buy and be done with it?
If you want good scores at the start give them more points to buy and allow them to buy up to a 16.
Thus was the point. Golaryn was pointing out how basically none of these arrays are the Munchkin's Paradise Vince was carping about twenty pages ago. Because we're all evil cheating powergamers, don'cha know.
Please do not contact or message me.
Man that barb is gonna die fast....
No one's cheating here and don't hover over the numbers for this proposed humble librarian character
Ability scores: 46 20 30 60 43 51
Boldly go
You have a guy who rolled a barbarian with a 5 CON (total of 62!!) and another guy who rolled a total of 78.
You have created a party with a liability and a person who is above average in most things.
THIS is more my problem with the system....the heavy swing you have with characters that creates a headache to balance around.
I have an idea for a character. Ordinary commoner. Nothing special. Ability scores: 248 145 116 127 226 83
I have a weird sense of humor.
I also make maps.(That's a link)
Shhhh. You'll arouse suspicioun and squeal the deal for the rest of us
Boldly go
Rolled stats for an NPC the other week, just for shits and giggles. I got two 18's, two 14's, and two 9's. Another time, I forget what the exact values were, but I rolled three of one number and three of another. And shit like that is the reason why I stopped rolling for stats at all...
Interesting. The median score (50th percentile) is a total score of 74. The expected value of the 4d6 method is 12.24 * 6 = 73.44...so pretty much bang on. Standard Array is 72. I think the 75th percentile values are very interesting, given they are way above the SA or 27 point buy, and most players who roll the 4d6 method keep rolling until they get a set like that. Do you have the 55th, 60th, and 65th percentile?
Oh man a blast from the past.
14 12 4 7 7 10
YES WE GOT IT THE ELUSIVE 3!
Okay so I guess we're gonna be a grouchy old wizard in a wheelchair named Timonathus "Don't Call Me Tim" Rigg. Not gonna lie I love this method.
For context, by the way, the same rules had no ASIs, but you could lower your Str, Wis, or Int (none of the others) by 2, but I think no lower than 9, to raise your class's primary score by 1. Also, 3=minus 3, 4-5=minus 2, 6-8=minus 1, 9-12=plus 0, 13-15=plus 1, 16-17=plus 2, and 18=plus 3.
Edit: the last page here is proof why rolling stats ain't going away. It's just a ton of fun.
Wizard (Gandalf) of the Tolkien Club
Wheelchair Tim must be an absolute pro with that wheelchair with a 14 DEX score (I know I called him Tim....I said what I said)
Oh he definitely is, he drives that thing like a Nascar.
Wizard (Gandalf) of the Tolkien Club
Thanks Yurei. I thought that was obvious but I guess I was wrong.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
No, we have a guy who rolled a 5 Con character and decided to turn him into a Barbarian. 4d6 drop lowest, in order, doesn't determine your class for you.
This illustrates that raw stats aren't the sole arbiter of how (in)effective your character is. Your decisions about it in general, both at character creation and during the game, have a big impact on that.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
None of the stat rolling options make you a bad DM or Player until you make an issue of it. Both parties should already know what they want and what they're expecting if they're playing together. If not, then dude, move on to a group that better fits you. Just because your way isn't their way doesn't make either of them wrong. People get so ridiculous on how the game should and shouldn't be played when in fact it's meant to be played as the collective prefers.
Tried doing a roll of 4d6kh, gave the following arrays without any re-tries etc.
11
9
15
11
8
10
I think I'd go along with a 4d6kh if I ever where to die and have to make a new character in our current campaign, granted if allowed by our dear DM and the other players at the table. This rolled array is probably worse than standard array and point buy.
Altrazin Aghanes - Wizard/Fighter
Varpulis Windhowl - Fighter
Skolson Demjon - Cleric/Fighter
Hi, that was me from earlier. Just for clarity, I didn't decide intentionally to take the stats and then choose a class afterwards, but had instead listed the class first then did the dice roller thingie and pressed submit post to reveal what the stats in order would be (that is, declaring the class upfront without knowing what the stats would be). While I suppose the stat numbers can be rearranged or a new class specified after the fact, the rolls were merely illustrative in as a what-if scenario.
Happy that you noticed my post nonetheless from earlier, and I hope that it added constructive value to the overall conversations of pros and cons of the stat rolling method.
Boldly go
That's fine too - I'm just saying your 5 Con barbarian wasn't the result of 4d6 drop lowest. That just determined the stats.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
Well yeah, obviously it is super hardcore if you are picking a class before you roll for stats in order. I don't think any edition of DnD was that harsh in its entire history - in previous ones you rolled stats first and then picked a class (OD&D, AD&D, AD&D 2e, D&D 3e ). And even then the rolls were treated as if they existed "in vacuum" because you wouldn't decide where to put a score before choosing a class (aside from OD&D where you rolled in order so you basically chose a class based on your rolls).
Though in one of the old ones there were some kind of optional rules that were based on your class - first you chose, say, a fighter and that determined how you rolled for stats. It was something crazy like roll 10d6 drop 7 all but assuring you get an 17-18 but for Int/Wis/Cha you roll 3d6.
The only two editions where you pick class first is 4e and 5e but in both of those you can assign it anyway you want.
My point is you have two characters with 15 points different in their ability stats....
Even if you put your best stats in the right order for the barbarian these other characters will be better at hitting things compared to them simply due to the stat differences. And this is across the board they are worse in everything.
For me the worst part about rolling is this...you have a decent chance to have two characters with wildly different statblocks. The way most people "fix" this is to have a way to mitigate low scores. (Reroll if less than 65)
If you are mitigating low scores with rolls you are pretty much ensuring they will have at least the same or better as point buy.....so why not just do point buy and be done with it?
If you want good scores at the start give them more points to buy and allow them to buy up to a 16.
If we're still doing the dice rolling with 3d6...
I got 9 | 6 | 7 | 10 | 9 | 12
I feel this might be a case where normal human would be okay.
I'm sure this character could survive for a little bit... right?
I would play this as a warlock as long as I'm not holding the party back too badly.