What the ****? So i cant use the spells and items I PAID TO USE in dnd beyond if i dont want to buy the new phb? Will there be free basic rules version of the new phb for this site like there was for the 2014 rules? Why the hell wouldnt they be marked under legacy like EVERYTHING ELSE!
The release notes said that you’ll still have access to the old books in DnDBeyond but essentially if you want to see the way a legacy spell or rule or item or magic item was written, you’ll need to look it up the way you would in a paper book; open the book in the app, flip to the right page, and look up the text entry.
Then if you want your character sheet to work like it did with what you paid for you will have to use the homebrew tool which has a learning curve that is fairly steep for many as shown by the many posts about using it. Luckily we have members that are both well versed and generous to provide help to those wanting to learn such as but not limited too Cyb3rM1nd with his excellent videos, and IamSposta with his timely replies and helpful threads There are many others in the community that provide immeasurable help to us as well. Hopefully they all will will get the recognition and praise they are due for picking up the slack where wizbo leaves us wanting especially with the mess ahead for many of us.
We're not using the new spells so... This decision kind of makes D&D Beyond useless to my table? Don't get me wrong power to you if your excited for the new stuff, but it very much feels like a new edition to our table- And if we do switch it'll be in a year or two when we finish our campaign, not immediately cause WotC want to release their product now.
Really gutted that the products I paid for wont be supported on this service anymore. It does make me feel kinda scammed on how the service was advertised? I certainly don't trust any content I purchase now to continue being usable into the future.
It feels like someone in WotC must see D&D more like a video game that can be patched with sweeping version changes rather than a tabletop game- But it is what it is.
For our table I think we'll move back to physical sheets.
Today we published a changelog detailing how the D&D Beyond site is going to be updated for the 2024 Player's Handbook. You can take a look at all the details at this link.
Happy adventuring!
You need to keep the legacy spells and stuff in the system for those of us who paid money for them. Just tag them Legacy like everything else getting that tag.
I don't get folks, how long should D&D beyond support 2014 5e? Ten years? Twenty?
Great breakdown.
How long should they support 5e14 ? Does
"probably a little longer than day 1 of the new edition, so people can at least finish their current campaigns if they don't want to have to switch mid-campaign"
"probably a little longer than day 1 of the new edition, so people can at least finish their current campaigns if they don't want to have to switch mid-campaign"
sound reasonable?
As long as DnDB is online. Otherwise no point in buy anything here. I will go back to in person DMing only, and just use books. If I do that, I will also stop buying WotC published books, and just buy from 3rd parties.
I don't get folks, how long should D&D beyond support 2014 5e? Ten years? Twenty?
Great breakdown.
How long should they support 5e14 ? Does
"probably a little longer than day 1 of the new edition, so people can at least finish their current campaigns if they don't want to have to switch mid-campaign"
sound reasonable?
To add to your point on it being way too soon- It's also worth noting that the "support" we're talking about is continuing to operate a storefront and character building service for digital text assets. I've no idea why some people are talking about tabletop mechanics as if they are 20 year old legacy servers for some forgotten multiplayer video game that are some great burden to support.
I can find free versions of websites "supporting" 3.5 all over the place, some even have the ability for me to read the newer 5e versions of spells. It genuinely doesn't seem that hard to shove all the old content behind a toggle and then just forget about it.
It does suck to lose access to the spells, but who is actually interested in using the older version of those spells? The vast majority very much needed the changes. Could just treat it as errata, no?
Who? Me because I'm still running a 2014 campaign that started in 2014!!!! It's nearing the end and switching to the new rules at this point would be a stupid move for my campaigns.
I’m also curious what will happen to a 2014 character using Warlock Invocations or Sorcerer Metamagic? Will those be automatically updated as well or will those get the legacy treatment?
I'd go as far as to say they have an obligation to everyone that's spent money on the 2014 content to have at least a toggle. They should be trying to empower DMs and players to mix and match the 2014 sources with the new ones as each group sees fit.
I have been playing and DMing using DDB as "the best reference" for 5e characters and rules since 2018. I have purchased the Legendary Bundles, I've had a Master Tier subscription for years. And yet this change just flips off everyone who is mid-campaign with 5e or on the fence and not currently looking to update to 5.5e. I play in two games, I DM a third. And this bungled handling of the transition makes me want to unsub and leave your platform.
I cannot BELIEVE the way you are telling your paying customers to hande spells is "homebrew them yourself". You have the power on your end to just slap a legacy label or "(2014)" at the end of all of them and keep them side by side with the new ones. Stick the 2014 spells behind a character sheet toggle option if you want so that your precious new players don't get all confused. But screwing those of us that don't want to upgrade at the moment after having purchased hundreds of dollars of character building options is ridiculous.
I should be able to continue to build a straight 2014 rules character, including spells after 5.5 officially drops. After all, that is the version of the rules I own! I see no reason to remove the option that literally already exists.
And a question to top it off. I saw earlier in the thread that existing spells on a character will stay, but what happens on a level up of this existing 2014 character when you choose new spells? Do you abruptly get forced to take the 2024 ones?
Please rethink this change, DDB/WotC. Because right now it makes me want to unsub, and not purchase anything 5.5e in case it ruins what I already have purchased. Which is not, I imagine, what you want your customers to be doing.
They may have just lost four subscriptions from this move. One of the members of my discord group posted this: "So, actually, this goes beyond the headline. ALL sections of character sheets will be automatically updated and you will no longer be able to create characters using the old rules." If that is, in fact true, WotC will be seeing an exodus from DnD Beyond. I dont know about anybody else, but this feels like a betrayal of trust. One, I believe many feel regarding this matter.
It does suck to lose access to the spells, but who is actually interested in using the older version of those spells? The vast majority very much needed the changes. Could just treat it as errata, no?
Who? Me because I'm still running a 2014 campaign that started in 2014!!!! It's nearing the end and switching to the new rules at this point would be a stupid move for my campaigns.
My brother in dice, you are a god among men! A 10 year campaign! Truly & sincerely that is amazing.
As a player in a campaign that is going into a hybrid mode of 2014-2024 rules, depending on the wishes of the individual player (we have some people who we know will be sticking with the 2014 class for definite and some who are considering switching to 2024 once we've seen the rules in their entirity) and as someone who's co-running a 2014 RAW Discord server, this site change is going to be a nightmare. For us to stick to the 2014 rules, we are going to have to allow Homebrew be turned on (which we normally don't as we use the RAW as much as possible) and review every sheet's spell list and etc. at all times in order to ensure their usage of the 2014 versions is correct and functioning correctly. We may have the trust of our playerbase, but it is going to be ridiculously easy to make mistakes or deliberate edits to things in such a way as to slip through the cracks.
This is one of the worst decisions WOTC and/or the Beyond Team (we have no real way of knowing who's actually responsible for these decisions behind the scenes unless they come forward) could possibly have made in terms of player retention. Let's not pretend like there aren't many, many ways of utilising 2014 5e content without paying the company any bit of money (obviously not going to name any such sources here). All this is going to do is alienate long-time consumers of the decade-long tradition that is DnD 5e due to being incapable of accessing the rules they know and love on the platform they've paid for these rulesets on. The solution being offered being to go homebrew copies of things is in no way a sustainable solution, especially if all tooltips are going to link to the 2024 versions as opposed to the 2014 versions. We will have no way of knowing the range of things being affected until it is too late. The ability to toggle on and off access to many things (Partnered by specific source, expanded vs base rules, even 2014 Legacy content) is already codified into the site.
I would love to hear from a site admin / employee / team representative, in a public post focused on this issue and not just as a reply to this thread, what exactly the reasoning is behind basically forcing all of us who love, appreciate, and have spent countless hours and anywhere in the hundreds of dollars worth of our local currencies on building our best 2014 - no, our best DnD 5e experience - to adapt to the new ruleset that we might not want to reach out to yet? Why is it that you cannot use existing functionality within your site to keep it being accessible to 2014 players as well as the 2024 players to come? Could you explain it in such a way that someone not versed in coding and such could understand? And, if you read back your explanation, is it something that the billion-dollar company that owns the site could not solve with a bit of investment into customer retention?
Because that is what making this site fully accessible to the 2014 and 2024 rulesets will be. Retention of customers who utilise the subscription services. Retention of the loyal customers who have been screwed over repeatedly by the parent company recently. Retention of those of us who wish with all our hearts to continue playing the games we've been running and playing for years without having to adapt to a drastic change. Retention of those who are loyal to the ruleset we have grown to love and cherish and work within. Just scrolling through this thread demonstrates the level of retention this change is bringing - a negative level, as you are losing people. Please reconsider, for the sake of all of us who play this game.
You make valid points there.
And even if spells having the same name would cause issues with how tooltips work, should be fairly simple to do a SELECT from the database and then WHERE the source = BasicRules/PHB 2014 they could SET the name to be SPELL_NAME = SPELL_NAME + ' (2014)'.
It would cause some issues with pre-existing tooltips. So a hex would no longer point to the current hex but the 5.5 one. But it's a simple way to keep them in their database and definitely less storage-intensive than all the homebrew copies that will be made.
indefinitely is the answer, especially with all the claims of full compatability that have done the rounds
We're not even asking them to "support" 2014, really. Support would be updating the game & 2014 sheets.
We just don't want them to pull functionality we paid for out of the sheets & encounter builders, etc. & expect us to use their homebrew tools that are genuinely worse than just using a pen & paper sheet.
People are so used to paying to get nothing they think not having a rug pulled from under them is a gift.
I honestly believe there should be a very big push in response to this for mass refunds on purchased materials. I myself have purchased specifically the spells from many books in my time on this website, and for it to simply be hand waved away is a slap in the face to an otherwise extremely loyal customer base you've built. You're the pinnacle of access to D&D, this is pathetic. You can't hide behind things being "too much work" being bankrolled by Hasbro now.
It does suck to lose access to the spells, but who is actually interested in using the older version of those spells? The vast majority very much needed the changes. Could just treat it as errata, no?
Who? Me because I'm still running a 2014 campaign that started in 2014!!!! It's nearing the end and switching to the new rules at this point would be a stupid move for my campaigns.
My brother in dice, you are a god among men! A 10 year campaign! Truly & sincerely that is amazing.
Wow for real! That's fantastic, OP, congrats on such a long term campaign!
I have purchased every WOTC book available on dndbeyond, have a Master's subscription, and have also had two places I work with buy out full accounts to play with fellow employees. I am the definition of a whale. If you remove the 2014 spells/etc. content and tell me to add it back in as homebrew--or indeed if you do anything that prevents me from just continuing to use the 2014 rules at my tables as they are now and without taking any extra steps, as I could with physical materials--I will never give you another dollar. HTH and HAND.
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Then if you want your character sheet to work like it did with what you paid for you will have to use the homebrew tool which has a learning curve that is fairly steep for many as shown by the many posts about using it. Luckily we have members that are both well versed and generous to provide help to those wanting to learn such as but not limited too Cyb3rM1nd with his excellent videos, and IamSposta with his timely replies and helpful threads There are many others in the community that provide immeasurable help to us as well. Hopefully they all will will get the recognition and praise they are due for picking up the slack where wizbo leaves us wanting especially with the mess ahead for many of us.
CENSORSHIP IS THE TOOL OF COWARDS and WANNA BE TYRANTS.
We're not using the new spells so... This decision kind of makes D&D Beyond useless to my table? Don't get me wrong power to you if your excited for the new stuff, but it very much feels like a new edition to our table- And if we do switch it'll be in a year or two when we finish our campaign, not immediately cause WotC want to release their product now.
Really gutted that the products I paid for wont be supported on this service anymore. It does make me feel kinda scammed on how the service was advertised? I certainly don't trust any content I purchase now to continue being usable into the future.
It feels like someone in WotC must see D&D more like a video game that can be patched with sweeping version changes rather than a tabletop game- But it is what it is.
For our table I think we'll move back to physical sheets.
You need to keep the legacy spells and stuff in the system for those of us who paid money for them. Just tag them Legacy like everything else getting that tag.
How long should they support 5e14 ? Does
"probably a little longer than day 1 of the new edition, so people can at least finish their current campaigns if they don't want to have to switch mid-campaign"
sound reasonable?
As long as DnDB is online. Otherwise no point in buy anything here. I will go back to in person DMing only, and just use books. If I do that, I will also stop buying WotC published books, and just buy from 3rd parties.
indefinitely is the answer, especially with all the claims of full compatability that have done the rounds
To add to your point on it being way too soon- It's also worth noting that the "support" we're talking about is continuing to operate a storefront and character building service for digital text assets. I've no idea why some people are talking about tabletop mechanics as if they are 20 year old legacy servers for some forgotten multiplayer video game that are some great burden to support.
I can find free versions of websites "supporting" 3.5 all over the place, some even have the ability for me to read the newer 5e versions of spells. It genuinely doesn't seem that hard to shove all the old content behind a toggle and then just forget about it.
How would you even access legacy spells/magic items/etc when you purchased a la carte and not within a book?
Who? Me because I'm still running a 2014 campaign that started in 2014!!!! It's nearing the end and switching to the new rules at this point would be a stupid move for my campaigns.
I’m also curious what will happen to a 2014 character using Warlock Invocations or Sorcerer Metamagic? Will those be automatically updated as well or will those get the legacy treatment?
I'd go as far as to say they have an obligation to everyone that's spent money on the 2014 content to have at least a toggle. They should be trying to empower DMs and players to mix and match the 2014 sources with the new ones as each group sees fit.
They may have just lost four subscriptions from this move. One of the members of my discord group posted this: "So, actually, this goes beyond the headline. ALL sections of character sheets will be automatically updated and you will no longer be able to create characters using the old rules." If that is, in fact true, WotC will be seeing an exodus from DnD Beyond. I dont know about anybody else, but this feels like a betrayal of trust. One, I believe many feel regarding this matter.
My brother in dice, you are a god among men! A 10 year campaign! Truly & sincerely that is amazing.
You make valid points there.
And even if spells having the same name would cause issues with how tooltips work, should be fairly simple to do a SELECT from the database and then WHERE the source = BasicRules/PHB 2014 they could SET the name to be SPELL_NAME = SPELL_NAME + ' (2014)'.
It would cause some issues with pre-existing tooltips. So a hex would no longer point to the current hex but the 5.5 one. But it's a simple way to keep them in their database and definitely less storage-intensive than all the homebrew copies that will be made.
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some minor jankiness would certainly be preferable to "just homebrew all legacy spells and magic items lol"
Good job on making your platform inferior to your competitors for short term profits! I'm sure that'll work out just fine :)
We're not even asking them to "support" 2014, really. Support would be updating the game & 2014 sheets.
We just don't want them to pull functionality we paid for out of the sheets & encounter builders, etc. & expect us to use their homebrew tools that are genuinely worse than just using a pen & paper sheet.
People are so used to paying to get nothing they think not having a rug pulled from under them is a gift.
Because Robots.
I honestly believe there should be a very big push in response to this for mass refunds on purchased materials. I myself have purchased specifically the spells from many books in my time on this website, and for it to simply be hand waved away is a slap in the face to an otherwise extremely loyal customer base you've built. You're the pinnacle of access to D&D, this is pathetic. You can't hide behind things being "too much work" being bankrolled by Hasbro now.
Wow for real! That's fantastic, OP, congrats on such a long term campaign!
I have purchased every WOTC book available on dndbeyond, have a Master's subscription, and have also had two places I work with buy out full accounts to play with fellow employees. I am the definition of a whale. If you remove the 2014 spells/etc. content and tell me to add it back in as homebrew--or indeed if you do anything that prevents me from just continuing to use the 2014 rules at my tables as they are now and without taking any extra steps, as I could with physical materials--I will never give you another dollar. HTH and HAND.