I'm not really on social media, I found out from one of my players mentioning it, I have not really felt the need to join in on the forums before despite being here since the start and owning all official content.
But this AVOIDABLE problem will cause so many issues going forward that I have felt compelled to get involved and share my apprehension for this going forward. If will effectively ruin what I use the site for as I am in the middle of 2014 campaigns with no current intention to make the swap.
And it comes at a time where I have no good faith left over for WOTC.
I just don't understand the lack of transparency on WHY they are doing this. There's clearly a specific reason why only spells and magic items are affected but they haven't explained it.
Fully done in full concience to push thier 2024 down everyones throat, claiming backwards compability (where is none) hoping they can sell a rushed unfinished product that has even more problems than the prior version.
I just don't understand the lack of transparency on WHY they are doing this. There's clearly a specific reason why only spells and magic items are affected but they haven't explained it.
Fully done in full concience to push thier 2024 down everyones throat, claiming backwards compability (where is none) hoping they can sell a rushed unfinished product that has even more problems than the prior version.
Quite an eye-opening view on how WotC is purported to view it's customers.
"
As for losing players, I can guarantee Beyond will gain more players than the lose. It is all but certain the hype surrounding a rules update will outweigh the people who are unwilling to accept errata. As anyone with a modicum of common sense can see, this decision was made to help new players - spell lists are already oppressively long, drastically increasing the length with spells that, for the most part, are functional equivalents only makes that harder on new players.
And, here is the reality most of the people rage quitting want to ignore.. and that Wizards almost certainly has thought about and will never vocalize - those players? The game is probably better off without them. There is an element of entitled laziness (if they spent half the time homebrewing as they spent whining, their problem would be solvedp by now), many of them have used personal attacks against anyone who disagrees, a number of them are the same people who have been throwing a fit since Wizards announced this would be the least bigoted version of D&D in history, etc. D&D is a community based game - Wizards probably is not all too broken up over toxic people ragequitting.
Plus, they are financially useless to Wizards. New players means new purchases - that’s the group whose user experience Wizards should care about. People who are so adamantly against the rules update that they’re unwilling to spend a couple minutes hitting the “copy spell” button few times, and are willing to ragequit over such a petty issue? Probably not going to purchase anything anytime soon - and, even if Wizards did appease them, anyone who throws a fit over something so small will probably throw another fit and threaten to ragequit sometime in the future. Not exactly the kind of customer you want to deal with."
They make most of their money from selling adventures and dndbeyond subscriptions. Both of which can work with both editions of the game. So no they can't afford to alienate the majority of their playerbase, it's unacceptable.
It is a new version whether you consider it qualifies or not. Many are upset because it breaks their years long campaigns because it trashes their characters unnecessarily. As a software developer for well over 30 years, I know it is fairly easy to put the calls to the new or old style in an if then else statement. They are just steamrolling their customers because they think they can.
Gotta be honest, this change doesn't bother me. Every single video game or sub/web based service I use get's updated all the time. I (we) asked for these changes. Complained at the lack of new rules and updates to spells etc...
I can't help but think about how much overlap there probably is between the people who're most mad about this who also constantly bemoan the fact that people don't know how to use character sheets anymore. Time to pull out your pencils folks.
And people aren't thinking about things like hyperlinks etc... I imagine stuff like that is much more complicated then people assume to deal with. Like if you look at subclass given spells which list of spells should they link to? That kind of thing seems complicated to me. Much more then just a toggle.
having the spells and magic items available in the compendiums isn't a bad thing, but I own the books physically anyway, so who cares about that? the obvious - and I mean O B V I O U S - issue is that that they're no longer available in character sheet creation, which surely you all know is the main reason people use DnDB anyway.
I do hope, Sarah, that you haven't been getting harassed over this, because obviously you're just the messenger here. I similarly hope you convey to your superiors that this is an issue. take care.
Well, I was about to upgrade my membership and purchase the 2024 digital bundle, but now that's on hold. If you are one of those people who want to excuse their money grubbing decisions and dismiss the complaints of some of their current customers, then that is your right, but I am glad you are not at our game table.
I just don't understand the lack of transparency on WHY they are doing this. There's clearly a specific reason why only spells and magic items are affected but they haven't explained it.
I'm sure there are all number of reasons why we weren't warned sooner and aren't being told details. Prior to this weekend, it was probably corporate greed and disconnect from the player needs, devs doing their best with what they've been given, and "it's easier to ask for forgiveness than ask for permission". Right now, the biggest reason is probably that it's the weekend, and anyone who has any say in the situation or even is allowed to speak about the circumstances isn't in the office. I'm not really expecting another official announcement until maybe Tuesday, after hopefully a number of terse meetings have happened.
That said, keep in mind that all tooltips are also changing to 2024 rules/mechanics/etc. (See: the last paragraph under "What Isn't Changing" in the changelog.) Spells and items are the bulk of tooltips. I'm guessing they decided it's faster and cheaper to just change the mechanics those link to rather than sort through which of those links are on 2014-specific content and which aren't, then point the non-2014 items to a new 2024 version. So, instead, they're asking all of us to do that on a character-by-character basis. (Ugh, it's not just creating the homebrew; it's getting it added into every single character that needs it ...) Which we technically aren't able to do, since we can't homebrew some of those things on our end. I'm so tired, y'all.
I just don't understand the lack of transparency on WHY they are doing this. There's clearly a specific reason why only spells and magic items are affected but they haven't explained it.
Fully done in full concience to push thier 2024 down everyones throat, claiming backwards compability (where is none) hoping they can sell a rushed unfinished product that has even more problems than the prior version.
That would make sense if they did it with everything. But just spells and items? I don't buy that.
I just don't understand the lack of transparency on WHY they are doing this. There's clearly a specific reason why only spells and magic items are affected but they haven't explained it.
Fully done in full concience to push thier 2024 down everyones throat, claiming backwards compability (where is none) hoping they can sell a rushed unfinished product that has even more problems than the prior version.
That would make sense if they did it with everything. But just spells and items? I don't buy that.
you dont have to, if you want to believe that they are innocent and all this is just a huge misunderstanding and they have the best of players at heart, be my guests.
In that case we can all go to sleep now knowing we are in the very best of hands after all and only the news and changelog is to blame, not money or predatory business practices that are common place in subscription based services :)
I'm on 3 games using 2014 right now, none of which have decided whether we want to switch to 2024. I think it is a better ruleset but change is hard and some people just want to show up, roll some dice, and make some inappropriate jokes at the DMs expense (and that is totally fine)
However I beg of you, please read what they are ACTUALLY SAYING and not what some rage baiting 3rd party is spewing for clout or clicks. 2014 will continue to exist both on the compendium and character sheet. It will not be forced upon you, DDB will not change your characters. The only thing they are updating on the character sheet automatically are the 2 items OP cited and the spells that appear in both 2014 and 2024. (My guess is that the changes are so small they decided not to spend resources forking those databases like the monsters and classes are)
If any of my players' characters use one of those spells, and if those spells have changed, and if the change is bad I'll gladly take a couple of minutes of my prep to homebrew the old version for them. Otherwise, I think they wouldn't even notice
You have fundamentally missed out that for DDB character sheets (which many players use) they will not be able to have the old version of the spells on their sheets for quick reference without extra (in my view unnecessary) work. The only people this doesn't affect are those using PDF or physical characters sheets, or using an entirely different service for character sheets.
With respect, and as someone who has DMd a LOT of games over the decades, I gotta say that even a small change can have a massive impact on a DM. This gets even bigger if they are a DM for relatively new or inexperienced players.
D&D 5e (2014) has one of the highest workload, lowest support levels for Game Masters than any other modern TTRPG. This is largely due to the trashfire that is their DMG. Now it is a system that my players and I have had lots of fun running with...but when I heard this news all I saw in that moment was WotC once again failing to care or consider the DMs. The people who literally make the game system work. They were once again making things just that little bit more work for us. Now I don't know if you're player or a DM in the games you mention, but do consider those DMs who have limited enough time as it is now having to expend even more time understanding the impact of these changes, then having to word it in non-prejudicial ways to their tables, then have a chat with their tables about if they want to use the new rules and spell wordings. Just that alone is extra work. Then if the tables wish to retain all the 2014 wordings and rules, that has another impact on DM prep time even if it is measured in seconds consulting the books for a spell wording or clarification. In person a DM previous could ask the player to read the spell description from their character sheet on DDB, now there's extra search time to open up a browser and check the spell info through the compendium, or flipping through the physical book. In a virtual setting, the exact same issue exists. That's the problem from a selfish point of view.
WotC have long failed to show consideration for DMs and I've long since criticised them for that. DMs make the game work, there are fewer of us than there are players and many of us run not just more than one, but often several games.
Even then this decision flies in the face of the reason many people came to DDB in the first place. A digital character sheet that was easy and inuitive to use, than would allow you to have on your tablet or phone instead of a worn, tattered and beaten paper sheet. Literally for some players I've run games for the character sheet is the only reason they have a DDB account. That's it. They find it far more convenient. Now, that convenience has gone out the window for those expressing no interest in the 2024 ruleset and wording.
In the words of one of the players I run a game for 'if they've changed Counterspell, Sleep, and weapon properties so much why don't they call it a new edition?' Said player doesn't want to learn how to use the new versions of the spells they've been using for a good few years now, nor do they want to learn any of the new stuff. As a result they've got no interest in the 2024 books. For those unconvinced by that train of thought - take a look at Conjure Animals, which in 2014 can be used as a good crowd control and tactical resource. Monsters are forced to waste attacks on these creatures (8 wolves for example) which can surround them and block their way. In 2024, that's not possible with the altered wording. The spell literally has to be learned how to use all over again.
For my players (and the group of fellow DMs I'm a part of for playtesting crazy ideas), all but one group who have yet to decide are fleeing the scene and moving to different services because we're part way through campaigns. That was their choice when given in plain discussion, with me announcing my biases and trying my absolute best to represent both sides of the issue. The reaction from my players at least has been that DDB and WotC are mistaken in this. That's a small sample size of 21 (out of the 26 total) I know who play D&D 5e. Maybe its confirmation bias but I genuinely am seeing more criticism of this move than acceptance when I compare the views I've heard from people I know to those I don't online.
Why do people keep saying "90% of spells are the same" or "It's only a few spells that have changed" or "Just a few dozen."
This does not appear to be true.
According to a reputable source, there are 106 spells that have been mechanically changed in some way. (From what I can see here)
On top of that, in order to effectively restore your access to these original versions of spells and their functionality in the character sheet, you would not only need to homebrew these spells manually, you would also need to homebrew the following features: (As mentioned elsewhere in this thread by WolfmanRIP)
Every subclass that grants spells needs to be homebrewed
Every item that grants spells needs to be homebrewed
Every warlock invocation that grants spells - these cannot be homebrewed and will not be usable with 2014 rules
Every class that grants extra spells (mainly through the Tasha's expanded spell lists) - as far as I know these also cannot be homebrewed so will be unusable.
Every monster that casts spells will need to be homebrewed
(Adding one of my own here) Every mundane and magical item that is being changed with the new ruleset (the numbers of which are as of yet unknown)
Which is, of course, to speak nothing about the actual monetary value that every single person who has purchased digital rulebooks from D&D Beyond is losing out on.
It's been argued ad nauseam but we say it louder for the people in the back.
The vast majority of those upset feel they have been wronged because when they purchased the digital copies of these books, they bought into an agreement, understanding, promise, whatever you wish to call it, that they would be able to utilize this content, AS STATED IN THE PRODUCT DETAILS TO THIS VERY DAY, within D&D Beyond's "Digital Toolset".
When this functionality is removed from the site, those of us who specifically purchased access to use this content in the Digital Toolset will effectively have the primary purpose of our purchases ripped away from us. This is what we find unacceptable. This is what we find objectionable.
We recognize that there are people who are happy to receive these updates for free. We understand that they see this as 'getting something instead of nothing'.
But WE DO NOT SEE IT THE SAME WAY. It is clear, if you take just a brief glance around the various D&D communities around the internet that a significant majority of discourse centers around the fact that we FIND LITTLE TO NO VALUE IN THE 2024 RULESET that we will be receiving because we DID NOT ASK FOR IT AND DO NOT WANT TO USE IT.
The decisions by whatever powers that be to take a Profit focused approach (Because it is very clear that this is a push to 'encourage' long-standing members of the D&D Beyond community to spend even more money buying into updated systems they do not want or need by cutting off their access to the Digital Toolset they have already paid to use), is predatory, insulting, and a betrayal of their userbase.
What would we like to be done about it?
I would hope the answer to that question would be obvious.
Must-Have: - Creating a duplicate database for the 2014 content that, upon character/campaign creation, can be selected, via a toggle, dropdown menu, etc, as the primary ruleset for said character/campaign which would allow new and existing 5e characters and campaigns to proceed unchanged. Would be Nice: - Develop a system to migrate existing 2014 characters/campaigns to the updated 2024 ruleset for those who wish to opt-in to the new rules in the future. Pipe-Dream: - Assurances that support for 2014 content within the Digital Toolset will be protected for as long as a significant portion (Can be defined later) of the userbase of D&D Beyond still utilizes the game-system.
Please Note:I, by no means, speak for everyone who is upset by these changes, but I have seen a significant amount of people making these statements all across the internet.
If I have missed something, or misrepresented something, it is not due to intentional malice, and is very likely due to my own incompetency.
I can't help but think about how much overlap there probably is between the people who're most mad about this who also constantly bemoan the fact that people don't know how to use character sheets anymore. Time to pull out your pencils folks.
What in the strawman is this?
And people aren't thinking about things like hyperlinks etc... I imagine stuff like that is much more complicated then people assume to deal with. Like if you look at subclass given spells which list of spells should they link to? That kind of thing seems complicated to me. Much more then just a toggle.
Except that if they flagged characters running off of the 2014 ruleset properly, they could simply reference all hyperlinks to the 2014 rulebooks people already purchased, and they already host on the site, and they will not be removing from their site.
Here's the reality of the situation:
They have a database full of 2014 content.
Rather than duplicate that database, update it with the 2024 ruleset, and develop a simple method to select which ruleset a character falls under in the character creation menu, they have chosen to obliterate the existing database in an effort to force people into purchasing as-of-yet unreleased content.
As an aside, frankly, it does not matter if it is difficult to do. What matters is that it is the right thing to do.
Let me speak to your video game references for a moment.
When No Man's Sky launched, it was a complete shit show. A technical nightmare full of lies and false promises. It is now widely regarded as one of the best space exploration games currently on the market because it's creators Did the hard, right thing to overhaul the entire game again and again and again, FOR FREE, until it not only rose to it's original promised state, but surpassed it.
When Final Fantasy 14 had it's abysmal launch, the company literally blew up the game world and re-created it into something that has now progressed to be one of the best MMO experiences of all time. It was by no means easy for them but it was the right thing to do.
There are other examples of this in the gaming space as well, what's important to remember is that doing the right thing may not be easy, but if a company cares about it's customers, it will certainly make an effort.
I just don't understand the lack of transparency on WHY they are doing this. There's clearly a specific reason why only spells and magic items are affected but they haven't explained it.
Fully done in full concience to push thier 2024 down everyones throat, claiming backwards compability (where is none) hoping they can sell a rushed unfinished product that has even more problems than the prior version.
That would make sense if they did it with everything. But just spells and items? I don't buy that.
Thing is it isn't just spells and items. As they roll out the changes for the 2024 rules, the character sheet is rumoured to be changing too. Feats are a requirement now, not an optional part of the game as they have been for so long. Mechanically, species work a little differently, as do backgrounds. As a result the character sheet will have to change to accomodate that. This is the literal tip of the iceberg. I have seen (but have no idea how authentic they are) screen caps of differently designed DDB character builder. If accurate more than just the spells are changing. If not, maybe I'm wrong here and we'll get the option between a 2024 character sheet and a 2014 character sheet in DDB?
I honestly think this was a marketing department of WotC decision. They looked around at Tales of the Valiant, at the Pathfinder 2e remaster and a whole load of other competitors and decided that they didn't want to compete with other publishers in launching a new edition. So they thought they'd have a crack at trying to pass this off as a simple clarification or errata. Having gone so far into this path of 'backwards compatibility' I think the designers were bent over a barrel. Now it is all about getting people to invest in the 2024 books before they realise that it had the potential to be entirely its own edition. There's legitimately enough there that had they wanted to make D&D 6e they could've with little extra work. I mean there are enough people out there already desperately trying to claim this as 5.5e or 6e, that there is a better than evens chance that these new books will be considered as a new edition by the customer base whether WotC want to call it that or not. That they didn't I can only fathom as a marketing choice 'no 6e didn't test well, let's just call this a clarification and rewording of existing rules, people are more likely to buy that aren't they?'
So, coming back to this after waking up. Still a garbage fire, still 100% WotC's fault. Just want to go over a few points.
-What's affected Just a reminder that, functionally, this only affects spells. This has the side effect of also affecting anything that calls on spells. Additionally, it's every spell in the PHB (some more than others) plus a list of 19 others from other books that are being reprinted as part of the new PHB. I got a chance to go over my friend's copy yesterday and make a list, I'll post just the names below so people know exactly what's impacted. This is ultimately a huge failing on DDB's part, as they could absolutely keep the legacy spells intact. The toggle's function would be "While spell exists on Legacy list, show Legacy spell description". For tooltips, it's less of a priority, but still should be something that should have a legacy list for the same purpose. At least tooltips don't have auto-rolling attached to them.
-To anyone insisting this isn't a big deal Wrong. As has been stated, the primary concern people have here is that we bought the books explicitly to access all of the content via the character creator. Which means for them to take any of this away is a form of theft. Most people don't have the time or understanding of the homebrew tools to make all of this work right, and you need a decent understanding of the tools to fix all the features this is breaking. It's not as simple as just clicking "Copy Spell" (which shouldn't even be necessary in the first place).
-Database Issues You know what isn't a database issue? Going through and making a single official Legacy list. You know what is? Player after player after player going through and making their OWN legacy list. The server load compounds as a direct result of this change.
WotC has exactly one acceptable path forward for all these people they've wronged, and if you think it's bad now? Wait 9 days. It's about to get so much worse when people who don't read the forums find out what happened.
Half of my group is using pen and paper, and the rest are using the Dnd Beyond app. We won't be upgrading to the new system, and we want spells to work the same for both paper and app players. If the app doesn't show how the spells work in the edition we are playing, there is no reason to keep paying for the subscription. You are taking away options we paid for (access to spells on our character sheets). Please listen to the users and make it possible to continue playing 5e-2014 using your service.
I'm also admittedly a little skeptical about comparing this to a video game. By definition, a tabletop roleplaying game is not a video game, despite what the powers that be would like it to be. It should not be subject to mandatory hotfixes. In fact, even a lot of video games aren't. I've got Tears of the Kingdom on my Switch, and it asks me every time to update, which I still haven't bothered doing. It lets me play it, no problem. It's only fully-online games that have required me to install updates to play.
Yes, this is an online service for a tabletop roleplaying game, so that skews things a little. It's a little similar to online games. And, obviously, WotC isn't (hopefully ever) going into our homes and rewriting all of our physical books. But those physical books still exist and will continue to be used, especially during a transitional period. (The physical books won't even be out yet!) When your tables are used to using multiple sources (all of which previously matched), this makes just one single character sheet source incompatible with every other. The easiest option for those tables would be to stop using the incompatible source.
And it's not like all the Starter Sets that are currently being sold are being magically updated to the new mechanics, either, so this is absolutely not helpful for new players in the short term.
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I'm not really on social media, I found out from one of my players mentioning it, I have not really felt the need to join in on the forums before despite being here since the start and owning all official content.
But this AVOIDABLE problem will cause so many issues going forward that I have felt compelled to get involved and share my apprehension for this going forward. If will effectively ruin what I use the site for as I am in the middle of 2014 campaigns with no current intention to make the swap.
And it comes at a time where I have no good faith left over for WOTC.
Fully done in full concience to push thier 2024 down everyones throat, claiming backwards compability (where is none) hoping they can sell a rushed unfinished product that has even more problems than the prior version.
agreed!
They make most of their money from selling adventures and dndbeyond subscriptions. Both of which can work with both editions of the game. So no they can't afford to alienate the majority of their playerbase, it's unacceptable.
It is a new version whether you consider it qualifies or not. Many are upset because it breaks their years long campaigns because it trashes their characters unnecessarily. As a software developer for well over 30 years, I know it is fairly easy to put the calls to the new or old style in an if then else statement. They are just steamrolling their customers because they think they can.
Get off my lawn or roll for initiative!
Gotta be honest, this change doesn't bother me. Every single video game or sub/web based service I use get's updated all the time. I (we) asked for these changes. Complained at the lack of new rules and updates to spells etc...
I can't help but think about how much overlap there probably is between the people who're most mad about this who also constantly bemoan the fact that people don't know how to use character sheets anymore. Time to pull out your pencils folks.
And people aren't thinking about things like hyperlinks etc... I imagine stuff like that is much more complicated then people assume to deal with. Like if you look at subclass given spells which list of spells should they link to? That kind of thing seems complicated to me. Much more then just a toggle.
having the spells and magic items available in the compendiums isn't a bad thing, but I own the books physically anyway, so who cares about that? the obvious - and I mean O B V I O U S - issue is that that they're no longer available in character sheet creation, which surely you all know is the main reason people use DnDB anyway.
I do hope, Sarah, that you haven't been getting harassed over this, because obviously you're just the messenger here. I similarly hope you convey to your superiors that this is an issue. take care.
Dum spiro, spero.
It is only better if you want the change. If you want dndB to keep their grubby little mitts off your character and game, it is much worse.
Get off my lawn or roll for initiative!
Well, I was about to upgrade my membership and purchase the 2024 digital bundle, but now that's on hold. If you are one of those people who want to excuse their money grubbing decisions and dismiss the complaints of some of their current customers, then that is your right, but I am glad you are not at our game table.
Get off my lawn or roll for initiative!
I'm sure there are all number of reasons why we weren't warned sooner and aren't being told details. Prior to this weekend, it was probably corporate greed and disconnect from the player needs, devs doing their best with what they've been given, and "it's easier to ask for forgiveness than ask for permission". Right now, the biggest reason is probably that it's the weekend, and anyone who has any say in the situation or even is allowed to speak about the circumstances isn't in the office. I'm not really expecting another official announcement until maybe Tuesday, after hopefully a number of terse meetings have happened.
That said, keep in mind that all tooltips are also changing to 2024 rules/mechanics/etc. (See: the last paragraph under "What Isn't Changing" in the changelog.) Spells and items are the bulk of tooltips. I'm guessing they decided it's faster and cheaper to just change the mechanics those link to rather than sort through which of those links are on 2014-specific content and which aren't, then point the non-2014 items to a new 2024 version. So, instead, they're asking all of us to do that on a character-by-character basis. (Ugh, it's not just creating the homebrew; it's getting it added into every single character that needs it ...) Which we technically aren't able to do, since we can't homebrew some of those things on our end. I'm so tired, y'all.
That would make sense if they did it with everything. But just spells and items? I don't buy that.
If you have to go back to pencil and paper, then we don't need DnDBeyond anymore.
Get off my lawn or roll for initiative!
you dont have to, if you want to believe that they are innocent and all this is just a huge misunderstanding and they have the best of players at heart, be my guests.
In that case we can all go to sleep now knowing we are in the very best of hands after all and only the news and changelog is to blame, not money or predatory business practices that are common place in subscription based services :)
You have fundamentally missed out that for DDB character sheets (which many players use) they will not be able to have the old version of the spells on their sheets for quick reference without extra (in my view unnecessary) work. The only people this doesn't affect are those using PDF or physical characters sheets, or using an entirely different service for character sheets.
With respect, and as someone who has DMd a LOT of games over the decades, I gotta say that even a small change can have a massive impact on a DM. This gets even bigger if they are a DM for relatively new or inexperienced players.
D&D 5e (2014) has one of the highest workload, lowest support levels for Game Masters than any other modern TTRPG. This is largely due to the trashfire that is their DMG. Now it is a system that my players and I have had lots of fun running with...but when I heard this news all I saw in that moment was WotC once again failing to care or consider the DMs. The people who literally make the game system work. They were once again making things just that little bit more work for us. Now I don't know if you're player or a DM in the games you mention, but do consider those DMs who have limited enough time as it is now having to expend even more time understanding the impact of these changes, then having to word it in non-prejudicial ways to their tables, then have a chat with their tables about if they want to use the new rules and spell wordings. Just that alone is extra work. Then if the tables wish to retain all the 2014 wordings and rules, that has another impact on DM prep time even if it is measured in seconds consulting the books for a spell wording or clarification. In person a DM previous could ask the player to read the spell description from their character sheet on DDB, now there's extra search time to open up a browser and check the spell info through the compendium, or flipping through the physical book. In a virtual setting, the exact same issue exists. That's the problem from a selfish point of view.
WotC have long failed to show consideration for DMs and I've long since criticised them for that. DMs make the game work, there are fewer of us than there are players and many of us run not just more than one, but often several games.
Even then this decision flies in the face of the reason many people came to DDB in the first place. A digital character sheet that was easy and inuitive to use, than would allow you to have on your tablet or phone instead of a worn, tattered and beaten paper sheet. Literally for some players I've run games for the character sheet is the only reason they have a DDB account. That's it. They find it far more convenient. Now, that convenience has gone out the window for those expressing no interest in the 2024 ruleset and wording.
In the words of one of the players I run a game for 'if they've changed Counterspell, Sleep, and weapon properties so much why don't they call it a new edition?' Said player doesn't want to learn how to use the new versions of the spells they've been using for a good few years now, nor do they want to learn any of the new stuff. As a result they've got no interest in the 2024 books. For those unconvinced by that train of thought - take a look at Conjure Animals, which in 2014 can be used as a good crowd control and tactical resource. Monsters are forced to waste attacks on these creatures (8 wolves for example) which can surround them and block their way. In 2024, that's not possible with the altered wording. The spell literally has to be learned how to use all over again.
For my players (and the group of fellow DMs I'm a part of for playtesting crazy ideas), all but one group who have yet to decide are fleeing the scene and moving to different services because we're part way through campaigns. That was their choice when given in plain discussion, with me announcing my biases and trying my absolute best to represent both sides of the issue. The reaction from my players at least has been that DDB and WotC are mistaken in this. That's a small sample size of 21 (out of the 26 total) I know who play D&D 5e. Maybe its confirmation bias but I genuinely am seeing more criticism of this move than acceptance when I compare the views I've heard from people I know to those I don't online.
DM session planning template - My version of maps for 'Lost Mine of Phandelver' - Send your party to The Circus - Other DM Resources - Maps, Tokens, Quests - 'Better' Player Character Injury Tables?
Actor, Writer, Director & Teacher by day - GM/DM in my off hours.
Also all of this. up vote it.
What in the strawman is this?
Except that if they flagged characters running off of the 2014 ruleset properly, they could simply reference all hyperlinks to the 2014 rulebooks people already purchased, and they already host on the site, and they will not be removing from their site.
Here's the reality of the situation:
They have a database full of 2014 content.
Rather than duplicate that database, update it with the 2024 ruleset, and develop a simple method to select which ruleset a character falls under in the character creation menu, they have chosen to obliterate the existing database in an effort to force people into purchasing as-of-yet unreleased content.
As an aside, frankly, it does not matter if it is difficult to do. What matters is that it is the right thing to do.
Let me speak to your video game references for a moment.
When No Man's Sky launched, it was a complete shit show. A technical nightmare full of lies and false promises. It is now widely regarded as one of the best space exploration games currently on the market because it's creators Did the hard, right thing to overhaul the entire game again and again and again, FOR FREE, until it not only rose to it's original promised state, but surpassed it.
When Final Fantasy 14 had it's abysmal launch, the company literally blew up the game world and re-created it into something that has now progressed to be one of the best MMO experiences of all time. It was by no means easy for them but it was the right thing to do.
There are other examples of this in the gaming space as well, what's important to remember is that doing the right thing may not be easy, but if a company cares about it's customers, it will certainly make an effort.
Thing is it isn't just spells and items. As they roll out the changes for the 2024 rules, the character sheet is rumoured to be changing too. Feats are a requirement now, not an optional part of the game as they have been for so long. Mechanically, species work a little differently, as do backgrounds. As a result the character sheet will have to change to accomodate that. This is the literal tip of the iceberg. I have seen (but have no idea how authentic they are) screen caps of differently designed DDB character builder. If accurate more than just the spells are changing. If not, maybe I'm wrong here and we'll get the option between a 2024 character sheet and a 2014 character sheet in DDB?
I honestly think this was a marketing department of WotC decision. They looked around at Tales of the Valiant, at the Pathfinder 2e remaster and a whole load of other competitors and decided that they didn't want to compete with other publishers in launching a new edition. So they thought they'd have a crack at trying to pass this off as a simple clarification or errata. Having gone so far into this path of 'backwards compatibility' I think the designers were bent over a barrel. Now it is all about getting people to invest in the 2024 books before they realise that it had the potential to be entirely its own edition. There's legitimately enough there that had they wanted to make D&D 6e they could've with little extra work. I mean there are enough people out there already desperately trying to claim this as 5.5e or 6e, that there is a better than evens chance that these new books will be considered as a new edition by the customer base whether WotC want to call it that or not. That they didn't I can only fathom as a marketing choice 'no 6e didn't test well, let's just call this a clarification and rewording of existing rules, people are more likely to buy that aren't they?'
DM session planning template - My version of maps for 'Lost Mine of Phandelver' - Send your party to The Circus - Other DM Resources - Maps, Tokens, Quests - 'Better' Player Character Injury Tables?
Actor, Writer, Director & Teacher by day - GM/DM in my off hours.
So, coming back to this after waking up. Still a garbage fire, still 100% WotC's fault. Just want to go over a few points.
-What's affected
Just a reminder that, functionally, this only affects spells. This has the side effect of also affecting anything that calls on spells. Additionally, it's every spell in the PHB (some more than others) plus a list of 19 others from other books that are being reprinted as part of the new PHB. I got a chance to go over my friend's copy yesterday and make a list, I'll post just the names below so people know exactly what's impacted. This is ultimately a huge failing on DDB's part, as they could absolutely keep the legacy spells intact. The toggle's function would be "While spell exists on Legacy list, show Legacy spell description". For tooltips, it's less of a priority, but still should be something that should have a legacy list for the same purpose. At least tooltips don't have auto-rolling attached to them.
-To anyone insisting this isn't a big deal
Wrong. As has been stated, the primary concern people have here is that we bought the books explicitly to access all of the content via the character creator. Which means for them to take any of this away is a form of theft. Most people don't have the time or understanding of the homebrew tools to make all of this work right, and you need a decent understanding of the tools to fix all the features this is breaking. It's not as simple as just clicking "Copy Spell" (which shouldn't even be necessary in the first place).
-Database Issues
You know what isn't a database issue? Going through and making a single official Legacy list. You know what is? Player after player after player going through and making their OWN legacy list. The server load compounds as a direct result of this change.
WotC has exactly one acceptable path forward for all these people they've wronged, and if you think it's bad now? Wait 9 days. It's about to get so much worse when people who don't read the forums find out what happened.
Half of my group is using pen and paper, and the rest are using the Dnd Beyond app. We won't be upgrading to the new system, and we want spells to work the same for both paper and app players. If the app doesn't show how the spells work in the edition we are playing, there is no reason to keep paying for the subscription. You are taking away options we paid for (access to spells on our character sheets). Please listen to the users and make it possible to continue playing 5e-2014 using your service.
I'm also admittedly a little skeptical about comparing this to a video game. By definition, a tabletop roleplaying game is not a video game, despite what the powers that be would like it to be. It should not be subject to mandatory hotfixes. In fact, even a lot of video games aren't. I've got Tears of the Kingdom on my Switch, and it asks me every time to update, which I still haven't bothered doing. It lets me play it, no problem. It's only fully-online games that have required me to install updates to play.
Yes, this is an online service for a tabletop roleplaying game, so that skews things a little. It's a little similar to online games. And, obviously, WotC isn't (hopefully ever) going into our homes and rewriting all of our physical books. But those physical books still exist and will continue to be used, especially during a transitional period. (The physical books won't even be out yet!) When your tables are used to using multiple sources (all of which previously matched), this makes just one single character sheet source incompatible with every other. The easiest option for those tables would be to stop using the incompatible source.
And it's not like all the Starter Sets that are currently being sold are being magically updated to the new mechanics, either, so this is absolutely not helpful for new players in the short term.