Quote from AlaricBrand >>

[[ Mild disagreement with initial height; I believe Brand is at 10' per this link. ]]

However, Brand cannot just add his downriver velocity and his new acceleration as they are in different directions so your idea of 25' per round toward Rawl doesn't work.

[[ No problem with delay, it's a crazy time of year. I have not digested all your response yet, since the momentum means it's a house of cards, so will go until I'm confused.]]

[[ One point: He has to use an action to Accelerate with Mage Hand because of the very clunky nature; I thought the levitate was done as movement. The levitate spell says: "If you are the target, you can move up or down as part of your move. Otherwise, you can use your action to move the target, which must remain within the spell’s range." Which implies for Brand it would be movement. ]]

Prior to this round, Brand has been able to match velocity with Rawl because he stopped swimming and looked around while treading water. Brand loses 2.5' of velocity due to air resistance. Let's make this the origin.

R[0,0]
B[0,0] Brand pushed Rawl under the water and Rawl is now aware that he is being attacked.

This works for me; R & B have same velocity (20' downriver)

Round 1:

R[0,20] -> R[15,20] Rawl panics and starts swimming for the shore.
B[0,15] Brand throws first dagger and misses [downriver velocity is now 15'].

This also makes sense.

Round 2: Brand uses his action to change his vectors by 10'; Height still 5'.

However, Brand cannot just add his downriver velocity and his new acceleration as they are in different directions so your idea of 25' per round toward Rawl doesn't work.

R[15,20] -> R[15,40] Rawl starts to drown.
B[0,15] -> B[0,30] -> B[10,30] or B[5,35] or B[0,40]

In all the cases, Brand is approximately 10' from Rawl, but has used his action and so can't attack.

[[ Good point about vectors, but I'd add that he can accelerate 10' in any direction, so the choice would include B[10,30] or B[7, 37] or B[0,40] with ending velocity of [10,15], [7, 22] or [0, 25]. ]]

In this case I'd go with B[7, 37]. I'd also like him to rise to 15'

Round 3: [Assuming B[5,35], Brand's downriver velocity now 20' per round and shoreward velocity is 5' per round]

Let's go with [7,27], v=[7,22]

R[15,40] -> R[20,60] Rawl comes to the surface and move 5' towards shore.
B[5,35] -> B[10,55] -> B[20,55] or B[15,60] or B[10,65]

With revised numbers this is B[5,35] -> B[12,57]

[[ This is the point at which the last move completed; in my interpretation it puts Brand about 8' from Rawl (edit and 15' up -- edit: which is a distance of 18' to Rawl), and Brand has to decide what to do.

Assuming levitate is part of his MOVE, I would like for him attack, then, depending on the result, rise again to 30+' ]].

[[All good (I was just rounding to 5' and looking at options that approached Rawl as per your original description) and yes levitate is done as part of normal move, so make an attack roll with Advantage.]]

Attack (Advantage):

12

[[ Btw... How is Yass re fire risk? ]]

Quote from AlaricBrand >>

Attack (Advantage):

18

[[That's a hit. Roll damage.]]

[[ Btw... How is Yass re fire risk? ]]

[[No fires around us as yet, and it's mostly grassland. I suspect the main dangers we will have are spot fires from wind-blown cinders and smoke; the smoke has been bad for us in the last few days, just like Canberra. How about yourself?]]

 

[[No fires around us as yet, and it's mostly grassland. I suspect the main dangers we will have are spot fires from wind-blown cinders and smoke; the smoke has been bad for us in the last few days, just like Canberra. How about yourself?]]

[[ So far OK; but we are naturally wetter, so our time of most concern is late Jan/early Feb. By then everything is very dry, though it's pretty dry now.

And yeah, ember attack is the big worry in most fires. They travel a very long way and with changing winds it gets pretty worrying. Keep plenty of bottled water for cinders and drinking! We have copious supplies of old wine bottles ;-) ]]

Damage + Sneak: 5 + 2 -> 9

[[ For reference, now and in future rounds, if possible I'd like Brand to have a chance at capturing Rawl. Thinking here of dragging him to shore, tying him up, and reviving.

Or, to make horrible use of mechanics, waking him with Stink of Life and stabbing him again...to get more time to tie him up.

Or any other means of disabling that the rules might permit.

....not to mention, he'd also like the dagger....]]

Brand's dagger finds it mark in the gap between Rawl's neck and his armour. The man shudders and then stop struggling and sinks beneath the water.

[[It is Brand's turn.]]

[[ Brand still had a little movement last turn, I think, since he had not yet moved up or down.

He would drop nearer the water in the hope of catching sight of the body. If possible, he would reach down with his free hand and try to grab anything he can see. He would also be willing to enter the water IF he was near the body. If he's not near the body, he would use Mage Hand to realign, if necessary, but at the moment ... but that all depends on the vector calculations!

If he has a chance of grabbing with the Far Reaching stone, he might try that.

He does not want to end up swimming, however, but IS willing to be partially submerged if necessary. ]]

Quote from AlaricBrand >>

[[ Brand still had a little movement last turn, I think, since he had not yet moved up or down.

He would drop nearer the water in the hope of catching sight of the body. If possible, he would reach down with his free hand and try to grab anything he can see. He would also be willing to enter the water IF he was near the body. If he's not near the body, he would use Mage Hand to realign, if necessary, but at the moment ... but that all depends on the vector calculations!

If he has a chance of grabbing with the Far Reaching stone, he might try that.

He does not want to end up swimming, however, but IS willing to be partially submerged if necessary. ]]

[[The stone is not an option as it specifically uses an action, which he has already used to throw the dagger. But Brand can both move and interact with one object (i.e., Rawl's body). Make an Strength (Athletics) check versus a DC of 8.]]

Athletics: 14

Edit: Well, crap. Can he follow and retry? If he partially immerses himself in the water this round, at least the current will drag him along as well.

[[ He could even try wrapping his legs around him, as per grappling/wrestling?

Is that an option? He's unconscious, make a grapple attack?

Edit2: Thinking about this further; if he's in the water up to say his waist or abdomen, AND levitating, he should be able to 'paddle' himself as part of movement. He then just needs to make a grapple... ]]

Edit 3: the grab was in the round he went under, so he has not rolled for death yet, correct?

Edit 4: would the Far Reaching stone be a more plausible option next round?]]

Quote from AlaricBrand >>

Athletics: 5

Edit: Well, crap. Can he follow and retry? If he partially immerses himself in the water this round, at least the current will drag him along as well.

[[No. Not in this turn. He is also in contact enough with the water that he has lost any surplus momentum he had and is effectively just above Rawl in the water.

Brand can roll for experience though. 

Edit: You might like to take a look at the rules for 'Hero Points' on the world site. You will find them in the 'Homebrew' section. Brand currently has 3 hero points.]]

Athletic XP: 7

[[ How do my options above work? Thinking he needs to hold his breath, reach down (or levitate under water) and grapple Rawl? ]]

Quote from AlaricBrand >>

Athletic XP: 12

[[ How do my options above work? Thinking he needs to hold his breath, reach donw (or levitate under water) and grapple Rawl? ]]

[[Please see the edit I made to my previous post for another option. These rules have been in place for a while, but I may not have mentioned them.]]

[[Please see the edit I made to my previous post for another option. These rules have been in place for a while, but I may not have mentioned them.]]

Interesting idea; but 1 point only gets me a 2/3 chance in this instance (if he'd rolled 7, I'd go with it like a shot); that said, I do like the use in this context - I think he is trying to be a hero at this point: get Rawl back to Bacchi, if he's alive, keep him alive for Koric to deal with etc. This is an outcome he (and I) would like.

But...is this his last option to get Rawl? If he can just wait a turn, levitate down, and grapple him, that seems a more certain outcome to me.

Quote from AlaricBrand >>

[[Please see the edit I made to my previous post for another option. These rules have been in place for a while, but I may not have mentioned them.]]

Interesting idea; but 1 point only gets me a 2/3 chance in this instance (if he'd rolled 7, I'd go with it like a shot); that said, I do like the use in this context - I think he is trying to be a hero at this point: get Rawl back to Bacchi, if he's alive, keep him alive for Koric to deal with etc. This is an outcome he (and I) would like.

But...is this his last option to get Rawl? If he can just wait a turn, levitate down, and grapple him, that seems a more certain outcome to me.

[[No. It's not the last option, as Brand could enter the water next round and attempt to grab Rawl (the DC would go up though) and the hero dice could be used for that attempt, if needed. Also, hero dice is probably not the right name, as they don't need to be used for heroic actions, but this is a pinched mechanic and that's the name they have in that campaign.]]

[[ Also, practical questions...if he grabs Rawl with his free hand -- say by the belt, or some other semi-reliable point -- is he going to be strong enough to levitate him free of the water, or will he need to let the water provide some buoyancy?

Also, can he use his left arm/hand (with the levitate stone) to hold Rawl (eg. if Rawl remained partially in the water, and Brand's left arm was hooked under an armpit, or Brand's hand held his hair/helmet/collar?) or will he have to continue using the right hand to hold Rawl? The objective is to avoid Rawl taking drowning damage and free Brand's right hand... ]]

[[NB: The original definition for hero points when going up a level was worded incorrectly; points aren't gained, they are set to the new level.]]

No. It's not the last option, as Brand could enter the water next round and attempt to grab Rawl (the DC would go up though)

So ... an attempt at a grapple next round is not an option? My thinking was it would be a grapple attempt (strength roll, boo), and Rawl would be at disadvantage on his dex save, at least...or is that naieve?

Edit: Also, why would DC go up? The first attempt was a free action at the end of a round; the next round he would be using movement (levitate down to Rawl in water, and paddle before if necessary)  and his action to grab Rawl.

Quote from AlaricBrand >>

[[ Also, practical questions...if he grabs Rawl with his free hand -- say by the belt, or some other semi-reliable point -- is he going to be strong enough to levitate him free of the water, or will he need to let the water provide some buoyancy?

Also, can he use his left arm/hand (with the levitate stone) to hold Rawl (eg. if Rawl remained partially in the water, and Brand's left arm was hooked under an armpit, or Brand's hand held his hair/helmet/collar?) or will he have to continue using the right hand to hold Rawl? The objective is to avoid Rawl taking drowning damage and free Brand's right hand... ]]

[[That depends on how deep Rawl has sunk, which Brand can't know at this point because Rawl's turn will be before his i.e., I will tell you the new DC at the time. However, before we can progress, I need to know if you want to use hero points or not now (you can use more than 1).]]

NB: The original definition for hero points when going up a level was worded incorrectly; points aren't gained, they are set to the new level.

Am I correct in assuming that they are not lost if, by some miracle, one had 5 points and got to level 4?  I would not gain 4, but I would not be reduced to 4 either.

[[ Another question that may affect choices: what would be the ballpark for XP from this set of encounters? ]]

Quote from AlaricBrand >>

No. It's not the last option, as Brand could enter the water next round and attempt to grab Rawl (the DC would go up though)

So ... an attempt at a grapple next round is not an option? My thinking was it would be a grapple attempt (strength roll, boo), and Rawl would be at disadvantage on his dex save, at least...or is that naieve?

Edit: Also, why would DC go up? The first attempt was a free action at the end of a round; the next round he would be using movement (levitate down to Rawl in water, and paddle before if necessary)  and his action to grab Rawl.

[[Grab and grapple are the same thing in this case as Rawl is not resisting. The DC would go up because Rawl will sink in his turn making it harder for him to be found and grabbed.]]