You're also privileging the lore quotes from Dragon, where as there's a big quote that actually gives those quotes license and shifts the argument more to the "lore isn't necessarily the whole story" perspective I've been advocating:
“The spider-inspired ‘udadrow’ expression of the drow elves that D&D fans currently know is based on Lolth’s influence over a pocket of elves who became isolationist, cutting themselves off from the rest of drow culture,” explains Franchise Creative Director Jeremy Jarvis. “There are whole societies of drow that did not follow Lolth into the Underdark. Two such groups are the ‘aevendrow’ and the ‘lorendrow’, or the starlight elves and the greenshadow elves respectively.”
So the Drow and all other elf schism is evidently something more than simply following Lolth in pending FR contributions to lore. Folks can and will take it or leave it or adapt it to their own use. If you want to fit them into some hitherto unknown variants of elf, you could, but FR seems pretty intent on making them part of the Drow story, not the elf story.
I left that out because 1) I was responding to interrogations regarding the two new "Drow" we are introduced too, and 2) because they've decided to name what was always just Drow as 'Udadrow'. It makes sense if you now have 'aevendrow' and 'lorendrow' to rename the OG Drow, but I'm still of the mind that Drow are a specific subset of what Dark Elves became during the Crown Wars, and that it should be applied to either those Dark Elves who were forced (or went according to which origin who prefer) into the Underdark, or Lolth follower, or both. If other Dark Elves remained above ground and didn't even follow Lolth and went to do their own things, then in my eyes they're either still Dark Elves or become something, but it doesn't make sense to call them Drow. I mean, originally all elves were the same, then they changed and become the myriad of elf sub-races we know now, so saying every elves that come from the original Dark Elves are Drow regardless of what path they took doesn't make much sense.
This is the difficulty of asserting certainty from accounts of what happened over 12,000 years ago DR. The Crown Wars was a time of let's just say "extreme" behavior elves are ashamed of. It's very easy to overlook things as a culture in narratives where shame is involved. Prior edition accounts of the Crown Wars make the dispelling of Dark Elves into Drow a pretty totalizing if not totalitarian move on the part of Correlon and his adherents. All dark elves became Drow. This is supported in the only place the Crown Wars are mentioned in 5e, SCAG where if you read the passage "Dark Elves (Drow)" it is said, yes, that Drow are descended from Dark Elves. However, Dark Elf and Drow are otherwise in that section used interchangeably. I can understand making a distinction between Drow and Dark Elves in your head canon, but that doesn't seem to be the case in the lore, and I imagine a responsible writer introducing new "dark elves who call themselves Drow" will probably explain why they maintain or assert that identity. Again the Crown Wars sounds like a few millennia of elves behaving badly and it's not difficult logic to see smaller Dark Elf communities cast out from Correlon elven hierarchy and make peace with that their own way.
It's why I think using the guiding words of the creative director make more sense in this discussion than that direction turned into sizzle lore. The Drow story is evolving, and it's not hard to see how it could while acknowledging the place established lore has had on the shape of FR to date.
The other thing hard to ignore about that quote is the "Two such groups" part -- as in, they're leaving the door open for more.
I haven't brought that par much because we have absolutely no idea where they're going with that (and I've already got enough flack for speculating with what we have). But yeah, it hints of being even more "Drow" which just reinforce my feelings above to 2 new "Drow" cultures. I mean at this point, Drow are becoming a full fledge race outside of the elves.
And largely the Drow have been treated that way since the in world schism. Most representations of Drow in the Dale Reckowning FR are Drow insular. Drow culture, one might even say a Drow diaspora is the result of their being cast out of communion with other elves. Their position in the FR is not really a conflict with those elves as it is conflict/antagonistic to the FR in their entirety.
I left that out because 1) I was responding to interrogations regarding the two new "Drow" we are introduced too, and 2) because they've decided to name what was always just Drow as 'Udadrow'. It makes sense if you now have 'aevendrow' and 'lorendrow' to rename the OG Drow
Purely from a linguistic perspective, this is the thing I like the best out of what they've announced so far. It makes total sense, and is reflected in myriad real-world examples, that "drow" is just a corruption or derivation of a word/suffix in elvish that refers to that branch of the race in some way. The udadrow called themselves capital-d Drow because they viewed themselves as the only or true drow, or something like that, and until now there was no one to contradict them. Very slick, much Tolkien.
Of course, I say that as someone who decided the name of the island nation where my homebrew campaign is currently taking place came from humans misunderstanding orcs telling them to eff off back into the sea.
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
I don't speak for everyone, certainly, but I can see the issue that WOTC seems to be saying "Drow=Evil" oh we never said that. Most drow/ dark elves are good, see here are the majority that are good, just this little group in Menzo are bad. The whole thing comes off as a PC reaction when they are not adjusting the lore of the Duergar, Derro. etc. who are allowed to continue as "evil races". If they simply said, here is this small group of good drow living on the surface, it would be readily accepted rather than the (admitted implied) direction that the drow are really good - just misunderstood.
Of course, we will see when the final product is released, but teases like in Dragon convince me those are trial balloons and WOTC actual obtains feedback from forums like this to shape their final decision on the matter. I may be hoping too much on this point.
WOTC seems to be saying "Drow=Evil" oh we never said that. Most drow/ dark elves are good, see here are the majority that are good, just this little group in Menzo are bad
I see no evidence for that interpretation, and what evidence there is so far points towards the exact opposite -- see the discussion earlier in this thread about what the use of "enclave" suggests about the size of the new drow communities. They've released nothing that would indicate the OG drow will suddenly be in the minority.
If they simply said, here is this small group of good drow living on the surface, it would be readily accepted rather than the (admitted implied) direction that the drow are really good - just misunderstood.
From my point of view, that's exactly what they did. It was not so "readily accepted".
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
I think you need to re-read the OP. They are saying that the only evil drow are in Menzoberranzan and all others are not. Admit that all of this is rumor, but that is what was originally said.
According to the Dragon+ article, there are now — and always were — at least three Drow societies ("There are whole societies of drow that did not follow Lolth into the Underdark. Two such groups are the ‘aevendrow’ and the ‘lorendrow’, or the starlight elves and the greenshadow elves respectively." ) and the one with are familiar with, the Lolth worshipping Drow from Menzoberrazan (and seemingly only Menzoberrazan) — now named Udadrow — are but a splinter group, cut off from the rest of the "Drow" ("The spider-inspired ‘udadrow’ expression of the drow elves that D&D fans currently know is based on Lolth’s influence over a pocket of elves who became isolationist, cutting themselves off from the rest of drow culture" ).
They became the aevendrow, a secretive clan steeped in powerful magic.
The aevendrow are only one clan? Not very many of them then.
Another band of uncorrupted drow which remained aboveground are believed to have sought a new homeland within the towering forests to the south.
Again... the lorendrow are described as a band. Not a nation, or anything like that.
"Society" is ambiguous in terms of size. Words like "clan" and "band", far less so. Granted, "pocket" also suggests a smaller group, but it explicitly refers to the original group that followed Lolth into the Underdark in the distant past, not the current population.
Other language use in the article could be instructive here as well. Menzoberranzen is described as a city; the aevendrow's Callidae is called a "bastion", which suggests something more like a fortress or safe harbor in a dangerous area. Again, the implication is that their numbers are not large. There's a suggestion that the lorendrow have a city in Saekolath, their "homeland", but also that it could be a myth.
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Well, Salvatore's latest book is out and Callidae, the polar city of the aevendrow, is 50,000. So much for the previous statement that this was some small band. Considering Menzoberranzan is well known to have 20,000, this new entity becomes a major part of the overall drow population of FR.
Interesting in several of the book reviews that readers blame Bob Salvatore for coming up with the concept of these other drow. Personally, I think these were dictated by WOTC.
Presumably, Drizzt will meet the Lorendrow in one of the two next books in this new trilogy. Interesting to see how that goes.
Well, Salvatore's latest book is out and Callidae, the polar city of the aevendrow, is 50,000. So much for the previous statement that this was some small band. Considering Menzoberranzan is well known to have 20,000, this new entity becomes a major part of the overall drow population of FR.
50k? Damn.
Do we know how they managed to stay hidden from everyone all this time?
Out of curiosity do these new books mean we will soon witness some kind of disaster, cataclysm or genocidal attack that explains why people know so very little about them?
Out of curiosity do these new books mean we will soon witness some kind of disaster, cataclysm or genocidal attack that explains why people know so very little about them?
Traditionally we would have a new edition to execute major lore changes with a sundering or whatnot to kickstart it. But I don't think todays WotC need those cataclysmic events anymore, they just point the magic lore wand, and presto, there has always been polar drow. If the rumors about a major Forgotten realms campaign book for 2022 is true that would be a logical place to introduce the changes though.
But honestly I don't know anymore :-) My table play in our modded version of FR with a full on classic great wheel multiverse, Sigil and Spelljamming, and we don't care much about the current lore debacle.
You're absolutely right about the fact that it's "lazy" on their part.
The writers, the creators, and the decision makers definitely should have put more genuine effort into this. And the truth is, You're Not Alone... because we all feel slightly cheated. Just a little bit.
I think you need to re-read the OP. They are saying that the only evil drow are in Menzoberranzan and all others are not. Admit that all of this is rumor, but that is what was originally said.
According to the Dragon+ article, there are now — and always were — at least three Drow societies ("There are whole societies of drow that did not follow Lolth into the Underdark. Two such groups are the ‘aevendrow’ and the ‘lorendrow’, or the starlight elves and the greenshadow elves respectively." ) and the one with are familiar with, the Lolth worshipping Drow from Menzoberrazan (and seemingly only Menzoberrazan) — now named Udadrow — are but a splinter group, cut off from the rest of the "Drow" ("The spider-inspired ‘udadrow’ expression of the drow elves that D&D fans currently know is based on Lolth’s influence over a pocket of elves who became isolationist, cutting themselves off from the rest of drow culture" ).
I just finished Starlight Enclave, and the part about /only/ Menzoberranzyr is not possible. The book itself mentions Ched Nasad, so that city (or it's ruins) at least remains an evil drow bastion. It's hinted that the reason why the subterranean drow were corrupted is due to the faerzress radiation, which is because the underdark is closer to the abyssal barriers.
So it's probably more accurate to say that a higher percentage of the underground drow are more susceptible to evil because of the faerzress making them easy targets for Lolth's cult, and those of the other evil drow dieties.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Out of curiosity do these new books mean we will soon witness some kind of disaster, cataclysm or genocidal attack that explains why people know so very little about them?
It's strongly implied that they strongly do not want to be found and take strong measures to ensure that does not happen. My assumption is that they do no not want to be found by their spider-kissing kin.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Out of curiosity do these new books mean we will soon witness some kind of disaster, cataclysm or genocidal attack that explains why people know so very little about them?
It's strongly implied that they strongly do not want to be found and take strong measures to ensure that does not happen. My assumption is that they do no not want to be found by their spider-kissing kin.
True. Which would make you think that they would not want their members to venture forth as adventurers, but I expect a bunch of people will want to have a new-fangled drow character.
I expect a bunch of people will want to have a new-fangled drow character.
Yup.
"A never-encountered race that makes my character unique?! I'm going to be that one lone character!!" says every player out there. I mean, isn't that what happened when Drow became playable? Drizzt clones galore.
Irony is that players who don't care if their character is unique have the most unique characters.🤣
If it's official that this community doesn't want to be found, then I just won't have them be found in my campaigns. Simple solution for those who do not like this (kinda lazily-implemented) additional Drow lore. We still control our campaigns. Realms with no Monks. Realms with no Elves at all. I haven't made such restrictions, but I've seen them. Nothing wrong with omitting stuff like that.
Let people have their new Drow if they choose. I'm not having it until I decide to have it.
EDIT: Still annoyed that the motivations for these changes are unclear in this modern day thanks to people getting all twisted up over stuff that shouldn't involve a fantasy world that they already control without these official additions.
Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider. My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong. I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲 “It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
Out of curiosity do these new books mean we will soon witness some kind of disaster, cataclysm or genocidal attack that explains why people know so very little about them?
It's strongly implied that they strongly do not want to be found and take strong measures to ensure that does not happen. My assumption is that they do no not want to be found by their spider-kissing kin.
True. Which would make you think that they would not want their members to venture forth as adventurers, but I expect a bunch of people will want to have a new-fangled drow character.
Given the foreshadowing, I think that venturing out is a foregone conclusion. I don't really want to say any more than that for the sake of spoilers. I do recommend the book, though it's not the best of the Drizzt series.
EDIT: As a huge drow fanboy, I am not fond of these changes. I've always felt that a good story for a drow character is more interesting than...this. It's why I've long disliked Eilistreaee....it was a cop-out when I wanted to play a drow. OOoooh I'm an Aevendrow from Callidae! Lame. I'd much rather be an Udadrow from the stench streets who's risen above his origins.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Given the foreshadowing, I think that venturing out is a foregone conclusion. I don't really want to say any more than that for the sake of spoilers. I do recommend the book, though it's not the best of the Drizzt series.
So like Drow war? I mean, I"m thinking it's maybe an a heightened militancy above the norm that may be the impetus needed to bring Drow culture back to the aggressive widow's peak and power 'stache.
EDIT: As a huge drow fanboy, I am not fond of these changes. I've always felt that a good story for a drow character is more interesting than...this. It's why I've long disliked Eilistreaee....it was a cop-out when I wanted to play a drow. OOoooh I'm an Aevendrow from Callidae! Lame. I'd much rather be an Udadrow from the stench streets who's risen above his origins.
There's something else tangled in there I was curious about. Does Ellistreaee play into the "rediscovered" Drow? Or is there a whole new pantheon/spirtualism shoehorned in here.
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Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
The book doesn't say Eilistraee's name that I recall. One of the aevendrow characters follows a "sister goddess" to Mielikki who could very well be Eilistraee, but IIRC, that goddess remains un-named.
While there is "drow war" discussed in the book, it's presented as civil war in Menzoberranzan. I don't want to say more about what I suspect will happen, because most of those suppositions started at the very end of the book and epilogue. If you don't plan to read the book (or have already read it), you can feel free to send me a PM and I would be happy to discuss where my little pet theories won't ruin someone else's enjoyment of a pretty decent story
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
I expect a bunch of people will want to have a new-fangled drow character.
Yup.
"A never-encountered race that makes my character unique?! I'm going to be that one lone character!!" says every player out there. I mean, isn't that what happened when Drow became playable? Drizzt clones galore.
Irony is that players who don't care if their character is unique have the most unique characters.🤣
Honestly this is kind of how I discovered the drow. I was looking through the old 2e monster manual back in my army days, and I thought the MM art work with this drow lady with a sword and dagger, with a spider crown looked cool. I was looking at playing a ranger (because DW was my thing), and thought that it would be cool and unique to be a /dark elf/ ranger. I mean the PHB said there were dark elves, but they were generally evil. Why not though right?
So I took the idea to my DM. He of kind of sarcastic and said and I suppose you want to use two scimitars. I said no, scimitars are lame and besides, the rules said I couldnt use two long blades. I said I planned to go longsword/shortsword. Then I asked why. He said, wait, you've never read the dark elf trilogy? I knew nothing about the drow, and basically just wanted to play a black elf ranger. That's all the thought I had given to it, and all I knew about drow came from the monster manual.
So, I ended up going to pick up the dark elf trilogy, and homeland really sucked me into the drow. I've never really identified much with Drizzt. I DID like me some To'sun Armgo before he got shafted and went dark again, and I am definitely Team Dab'nay. I think those somewhat conflicted, flawed characters are more interesting to me than "I just have morals because my dad wasn't a hater...until he met my human wife" Drizzt. I'd much rather think about /why/ is this character not evil. How did he not get indoctrinated? What kind of personality would someone have coming from an environment like that, but not being 100% selfish and self centered. He'd probably see things on the surface from a warped perspective, and his moral compass might not point quite to the north.
That's compelling and interesting to me. I love playing me some drow, but man, drow players should put in a little work for it. Make it fun and interesting rather than a power grab for drow magic and weapon training.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
I don’t really have a problem with new types of Drow the old FR lore can pretty well handle fitting them in. The vast majority of the dark elves of the crown wars were from the southernmost realm where in addition to taking Auraunashee (sp?) (Lolth’s previous name) as their goddess they were also experimenting with demonic inbreeding as the Fey’ri latter did. But there were many other groups of dark elves. Mieritayr (sp?) was mixed dark and wood elves until wiped out by the Aruvandrians. And many of the citizens of Rhymanthien are Sharn that have to stay that way since they are actually three dark elves that would be subject to Correllon’s curse if the Sharn dissociated. We also have nonLolth following draw like the Bergman D’aerthe and the citizens of Sshamath. And some of these have even been returned to original dark elf appearance thanks to an epic/Elven High Magic ritual. So what are 2+ other groups of Drow that are not Lolth followers. Especially if they are groups that broke off from dark elf rich societies and fled to get away from the crown wars. Since the old lore states that all dark elves were turned into Drow appearance by Correllon they could be either Drow in appearance or dark elven if they have created their own High Magic ritual. I’ll be waiting to see what the new lore book tells us next year.
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Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
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This is the difficulty of asserting certainty from accounts of what happened over 12,000 years ago DR. The Crown Wars was a time of let's just say "extreme" behavior elves are ashamed of. It's very easy to overlook things as a culture in narratives where shame is involved. Prior edition accounts of the Crown Wars make the dispelling of Dark Elves into Drow a pretty totalizing if not totalitarian move on the part of Correlon and his adherents. All dark elves became Drow. This is supported in the only place the Crown Wars are mentioned in 5e, SCAG where if you read the passage "Dark Elves (Drow)" it is said, yes, that Drow are descended from Dark Elves. However, Dark Elf and Drow are otherwise in that section used interchangeably. I can understand making a distinction between Drow and Dark Elves in your head canon, but that doesn't seem to be the case in the lore, and I imagine a responsible writer introducing new "dark elves who call themselves Drow" will probably explain why they maintain or assert that identity. Again the Crown Wars sounds like a few millennia of elves behaving badly and it's not difficult logic to see smaller Dark Elf communities cast out from Correlon elven hierarchy and make peace with that their own way.
It's why I think using the guiding words of the creative director make more sense in this discussion than that direction turned into sizzle lore. The Drow story is evolving, and it's not hard to see how it could while acknowledging the place established lore has had on the shape of FR to date.
And largely the Drow have been treated that way since the in world schism. Most representations of Drow in the Dale Reckowning FR are Drow insular. Drow culture, one might even say a Drow diaspora is the result of their being cast out of communion with other elves. Their position in the FR is not really a conflict with those elves as it is conflict/antagonistic to the FR in their entirety.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Purely from a linguistic perspective, this is the thing I like the best out of what they've announced so far. It makes total sense, and is reflected in myriad real-world examples, that "drow" is just a corruption or derivation of a word/suffix in elvish that refers to that branch of the race in some way. The udadrow called themselves capital-d Drow because they viewed themselves as the only or true drow, or something like that, and until now there was no one to contradict them. Very slick, much Tolkien.
Of course, I say that as someone who decided the name of the island nation where my homebrew campaign is currently taking place came from humans misunderstanding orcs telling them to eff off back into the sea.
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
I don't speak for everyone, certainly, but I can see the issue that WOTC seems to be saying "Drow=Evil" oh we never said that. Most drow/ dark elves are good, see here are the majority that are good, just this little group in Menzo are bad. The whole thing comes off as a PC reaction when they are not adjusting the lore of the Duergar, Derro. etc. who are allowed to continue as "evil races". If they simply said, here is this small group of good drow living on the surface, it would be readily accepted rather than the (admitted implied) direction that the drow are really good - just misunderstood.
Of course, we will see when the final product is released, but teases like in Dragon convince me those are trial balloons and WOTC actual obtains feedback from forums like this to shape their final decision on the matter. I may be hoping too much on this point.
I see no evidence for that interpretation, and what evidence there is so far points towards the exact opposite -- see the discussion earlier in this thread about what the use of "enclave" suggests about the size of the new drow communities. They've released nothing that would indicate the OG drow will suddenly be in the minority.
From my point of view, that's exactly what they did. It was not so "readily accepted".
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
I think you need to re-read the OP. They are saying that the only evil drow are in Menzoberranzan and all others are not. Admit that all of this is rumor, but that is what was originally said.
According to the Dragon+ article, there are now — and always were — at least three Drow societies ("There are whole societies of drow that did not follow Lolth into the Underdark. Two such groups are the ‘aevendrow’ and the ‘lorendrow’, or the starlight elves and the greenshadow elves respectively." ) and the one with are familiar with, the Lolth worshipping Drow from Menzoberrazan (and seemingly only Menzoberrazan) — now named Udadrow — are but a splinter group, cut off from the rest of the "Drow" ("The spider-inspired ‘udadrow’ expression of the drow elves that D&D fans currently know is based on Lolth’s influence over a pocket of elves who became isolationist, cutting themselves off from the rest of drow culture" ).
I could say the same to you:
The aevendrow are only one clan? Not very many of them then.
Again... the lorendrow are described as a band. Not a nation, or anything like that.
"Society" is ambiguous in terms of size. Words like "clan" and "band", far less so. Granted, "pocket" also suggests a smaller group, but it explicitly refers to the original group that followed Lolth into the Underdark in the distant past, not the current population.
Other language use in the article could be instructive here as well. Menzoberranzen is described as a city; the aevendrow's Callidae is called a "bastion", which suggests something more like a fortress or safe harbor in a dangerous area. Again, the implication is that their numbers are not large. There's a suggestion that the lorendrow have a city in Saekolath, their "homeland", but also that it could be a myth.
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Well, Salvatore's latest book is out and Callidae, the polar city of the aevendrow, is 50,000. So much for the previous statement that this was some small band. Considering Menzoberranzan is well known to have 20,000, this new entity becomes a major part of the overall drow population of FR.
Interesting in several of the book reviews that readers blame Bob Salvatore for coming up with the concept of these other drow. Personally, I think these were dictated by WOTC.
Presumably, Drizzt will meet the Lorendrow in one of the two next books in this new trilogy. Interesting to see how that goes.
Still not a fan of this retcon.
50k? Damn.
Do we know how they managed to stay hidden from everyone all this time?
Out of curiosity do these new books mean we will soon witness some kind of disaster, cataclysm or genocidal attack that explains why people know so very little about them?
Traditionally we would have a new edition to execute major lore changes with a sundering or whatnot to kickstart it. But I don't think todays WotC need those cataclysmic events anymore, they just point the magic lore wand, and presto, there has always been polar drow. If the rumors about a major Forgotten realms campaign book for 2022 is true that would be a logical place to introduce the changes though.
But honestly I don't know anymore :-) My table play in our modded version of FR with a full on classic great wheel multiverse, Sigil and Spelljamming, and we don't care much about the current lore debacle.
You're absolutely right about the fact that it's "lazy" on their part.
The writers, the creators, and the decision makers definitely should have put more genuine effort into this. And the truth is, You're Not Alone... because we all feel slightly cheated. Just a little bit.
I just finished Starlight Enclave, and the part about /only/ Menzoberranzyr is not possible. The book itself mentions Ched Nasad, so that city (or it's ruins) at least remains an evil drow bastion. It's hinted that the reason why the subterranean drow were corrupted is due to the faerzress radiation, which is because the underdark is closer to the abyssal barriers.
So it's probably more accurate to say that a higher percentage of the underground drow are more susceptible to evil because of the faerzress making them easy targets for Lolth's cult, and those of the other evil drow dieties.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
It's strongly implied that they strongly do not want to be found and take strong measures to ensure that does not happen. My assumption is that they do no not want to be found by their spider-kissing kin.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
True. Which would make you think that they would not want their members to venture forth as adventurers, but I expect a bunch of people will want to have a new-fangled drow character.
Yup.
"A never-encountered race that makes my character unique?! I'm going to be that one lone character!!" says every player out there. I mean, isn't that what happened when Drow became playable? Drizzt clones galore.
Irony is that players who don't care if their character is unique have the most unique characters.🤣
If it's official that this community doesn't want to be found, then I just won't have them be found in my campaigns. Simple solution for those who do not like this (kinda lazily-implemented) additional Drow lore. We still control our campaigns. Realms with no Monks. Realms with no Elves at all. I haven't made such restrictions, but I've seen them. Nothing wrong with omitting stuff like that.
Let people have their new Drow if they choose. I'm not having it until I decide to have it.
EDIT: Still annoyed that the motivations for these changes are unclear in this modern day thanks to people getting all twisted up over stuff that shouldn't involve a fantasy world that they already control without these official additions.
Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider.
My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong.
I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲
“It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
Given the foreshadowing, I think that venturing out is a foregone conclusion. I don't really want to say any more than that for the sake of spoilers. I do recommend the book, though it's not the best of the Drizzt series.
EDIT: As a huge drow fanboy, I am not fond of these changes. I've always felt that a good story for a drow character is more interesting than...this. It's why I've long disliked Eilistreaee....it was a cop-out when I wanted to play a drow. OOoooh I'm an Aevendrow from Callidae! Lame. I'd much rather be an Udadrow from the stench streets who's risen above his origins.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
So like Drow war? I mean, I"m thinking it's maybe an a heightened militancy above the norm that may be the impetus needed to bring Drow culture back to the aggressive widow's peak and power 'stache.
There's something else tangled in there I was curious about. Does Ellistreaee play into the "rediscovered" Drow? Or is there a whole new pantheon/spirtualism shoehorned in here.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
The book doesn't say Eilistraee's name that I recall. One of the aevendrow characters follows a "sister goddess" to Mielikki who could very well be Eilistraee, but IIRC, that goddess remains un-named.
While there is "drow war" discussed in the book, it's presented as civil war in Menzoberranzan. I don't want to say more about what I suspect will happen, because most of those suppositions started at the very end of the book and epilogue. If you don't plan to read the book (or have already read it), you can feel free to send me a PM and I would be happy to discuss where my little pet theories won't ruin someone else's enjoyment of a pretty decent story
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Honestly this is kind of how I discovered the drow. I was looking through the old 2e monster manual back in my army days, and I thought the MM art work with this drow lady with a sword and dagger, with a spider crown looked cool. I was looking at playing a ranger (because DW was my thing), and thought that it would be cool and unique to be a /dark elf/ ranger. I mean the PHB said there were dark elves, but they were generally evil. Why not though right?
So I took the idea to my DM. He of kind of sarcastic and said and I suppose you want to use two scimitars. I said no, scimitars are lame and besides, the rules said I couldnt use two long blades. I said I planned to go longsword/shortsword. Then I asked why. He said, wait, you've never read the dark elf trilogy? I knew nothing about the drow, and basically just wanted to play a black elf ranger. That's all the thought I had given to it, and all I knew about drow came from the monster manual.
So, I ended up going to pick up the dark elf trilogy, and homeland really sucked me into the drow. I've never really identified much with Drizzt. I DID like me some To'sun Armgo before he got shafted and went dark again, and I am definitely Team Dab'nay. I think those somewhat conflicted, flawed characters are more interesting to me than "I just have morals because my dad wasn't a hater...until he met my human wife" Drizzt. I'd much rather think about /why/ is this character not evil. How did he not get indoctrinated? What kind of personality would someone have coming from an environment like that, but not being 100% selfish and self centered. He'd probably see things on the surface from a warped perspective, and his moral compass might not point quite to the north.
That's compelling and interesting to me. I love playing me some drow, but man, drow players should put in a little work for it. Make it fun and interesting rather than a power grab for drow magic and weapon training.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
I don’t really have a problem with new types of Drow the old FR lore can pretty well handle fitting them in. The vast majority of the dark elves of the crown wars were from the southernmost realm where in addition to taking Auraunashee (sp?) (Lolth’s previous name) as their goddess they were also experimenting with demonic inbreeding as the Fey’ri latter did. But there were many other groups of dark elves. Mieritayr (sp?) was mixed dark and wood elves until wiped out by the Aruvandrians. And many of the citizens of Rhymanthien are Sharn that have to stay that way since they are actually three dark elves that would be subject to Correllon’s curse if the Sharn dissociated. We also have nonLolth following draw like the Bergman D’aerthe and the citizens of Sshamath. And some of these have even been returned to original dark elf appearance thanks to an epic/Elven High Magic ritual. So what are 2+ other groups of Drow that are not Lolth followers. Especially if they are groups that broke off from dark elf rich societies and fled to get away from the crown wars. Since the old lore states that all dark elves were turned into Drow appearance by Correllon they could be either Drow in appearance or dark elven if they have created their own High Magic ritual. I’ll be waiting to see what the new lore book tells us next year.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.