Okay, I know DMPCs are consider a bad thing for a dm to bring to the table. I've seen lots of people's stories about DMPCs being self inserts or being a mary sue, and the players really hate them.
But what about those players who actually like your DMPCs?
For example, when I first DMed Lost Mines of Phindelver, it was just me and my two older brothers, there were 3 character sheets left, and the campaign was not designed for less than 5 players, so I decided to take the three pregenerated character sheets, and use them to help give my players the full experiences of the campaign. Thus inadvertently making 3 DMPCs.
I made sure they never hogged the spotlight, and only keeping the same attention on the players, and made sure they didn't out shine the players.
And I was okay if these guys died, and one almost did. Heck there were moments the players had to save them. And my brothers really liked the characters. Some of the former enemy NPCs that they were able to recruit to their side I gave character classes to help them keep up, and better assist the players.
Now, I get to my point of this thread. One of my brothers, does not want to lose any of these characters, he would rather his own character die than any of the characters that he's befriended. It really showed in a couple of prologue one shot, when the wolf accompanying him and his goblin servants was nearly killed. He begged me to let him do the death saving throw, the wolf survived.
Which I took it as a sign that he really liked these characters. Even did the same thing when the dmpc was about to die.
My apologies for turning this into a bit of a rant, but I feel like everyone always talks about how the DM is the only one who likes to have DMPCs, but no one ever talks about if the Players liked the DMPCs.
Is it really bad to throw DMPCs in a campaign, even if the players seem to enjoy them?
Same boat here. My brother had his own character when he ran lost mines for me and his two older boys who wanted to learn and wanted me to play with them. Now I’m DM. I got bored with my character if played in lost mines (we just picked up hoard of the dragon queen with our same characters) so killed her off to the horror of my group. They rejoiced when I finally got the chance to intro a new character. I may get bored with her again but this time I’ve got a plan in place to just rotate through various dmpcs so I don’t get to the point of just putting my character out of her misery by offing her again.
I use DMPC's, and they've been likable. They don't interrupt the players fun, don't unbalance the game, and act like any player.
I consider myself good at roleplay, because self inserts are just no good, and bias in an RPG based off real life circumstances just shouldn't interfere.
The most popular one with my group so far was a demonic kid warlock, in a modern setting campaign. He was a trouble maker and druggie, so he kept things lively but wouldn't cause actual trouble for the party.
Is it really bad to throw DMPCs in a campaign, even if the players seem to enjoy them?
Not every NPC ally is a DMPC. A DMPC is a character the DM treats as his PC. In general if you're making sure your NPCs aren't stealing the PCs spotlight, they aren't a problem.
Is it really bad to throw DMPCs in a campaign, even if the players seem to enjoy them?
Not every NPC ally is a DMPC. A DMPC is a character the DM treats as his PC. In general if you're making sure your NPCs aren't stealing the PCs spotlight, they aren't a problem.
Do you mean like saving the players constantly? Because if that's the case, I've only had one of the original DMPCs that was a human fighter, named Suzanne Hatchet, turned oath of Heroism Paladin (no multiclassing) come and save my brother's character after losing her left eye and right arm to the main antagonist of Dragon of Icespire Peak. And that was only as a means of reintroducing her.
If something is fun in your campaign, and both you and your players enjoy it, ignore what everyone else online is telling you to do or not to do.
I use DMPC's all the time, because I normally don't have enough players to have a full party, and they still want the ability to roleplay with other party members, even though there aren't enough people to play real PCs in the campaign.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
If something is fun in your campaign, and both you and your players enjoy it, ignore what everyone else online is telling you to do or not to do.
I use DMPC's all the time, because I normally don't have enough players to have a full party, and they still want the ability to roleplay with other party members, even though there aren't enough people to play real PCs in the campaign.
At the end of the day D&D is about having fun. If that's happening then keep it up. ; )
In general DMPC's are reviled because some DM's become spotlight hogs or make their DMPC super powerful compared with the players - and that's when the players stop (or never started to) have fun. If that's not a problem for you and your table then there's clearly no issue with them.
I created a DMPC just to start my campaign. Sam Goodfella. Rogue (tho he says he's a bard). My group was 100% new players.
He was there just to show players how to check character sheets, find stats, make rolls and the biggest one, an ice breaker to have players talk to each other as their characters. After the first night, there was an avalanche and their coach was thrown down the mountain. Sam was last seen being thrown out the window and never heard from again... Some say he's still out there tho... Ready to return when needed.
I created a DMPC just to start my campaign. Sam Goodfella. Rogue (tho he says he's a bard). My group was 100% new players.
He was there just to show players how to check character sheets, find stats, make rolls and the biggest one, an ice breaker to have players talk to each other as their characters. After the first night, there was an avalanche and their coach was thrown down the mountain. Sam was last seen being thrown out the window and never heard from again... Some say he's still out there tho... Ready to return when needed.
Dang. Sounds like a guy you sounds like a folk hero
At the end of the day D&D is about having fun. If that's happening then keep it up. ; )
In general DMPC's are reviled because some DM's become spotlight hogs or make their DMPC super powerful compared with the players - and that's when the players stop (or never started to) have fun. If that's not a problem for you and your table then there's clearly no issue with them.
My brother's definitely had fun with my 3 main DMPCs, that I decided to bring them back for the next campaign
I ran Waterdeep: Dragon Heist with one player, and 3 DMPCs.
No problem, my player loved all of them (except one, who was too boring, so he died later), and when they'd die, he'd do all that he could to get them back (except the boring one).
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
I ran Waterdeep: Dragon Heist with one player, and 3 DMPCs.
No problem, my player loved all of them (except one, who was too boring, so he died later), and when they'd die, he'd do all that he could to get them back (except the boring one).
Oh man I actually used the last 3 pregenerated character sheets from lost mines of phindelver, and one of them, a lawful good human fighter (and only female in the group) rolled a nat 20 on intimidation was pretty awesome. And this same woman, after losing her right arm and left eye during a prologue, I am not kidding rolled a nat20 again on the same skill on the white dragon who nearly killed her. I was baffled. And i remade her into an oath of Heroism Paladin to show her growth.
At the end of the day D&D is about having fun. If that's happening then keep it up. ; )
In general DMPC's are reviled because some DM's become spotlight hogs or make their DMPC super powerful compared with the players - and that's when the players stop (or never started to) have fun. If that's not a problem for you and your table then there's clearly no issue with them.
My brother's definitely had fun with my 3 main DMPCs, that I decided to bring them back for the next campaign
Why not let your brothers each run one? Players having two characters is very manageable, especially now that they are familiar with them.
At the end of the day D&D is about having fun. If that's happening then keep it up. ; )
In general DMPC's are reviled because some DM's become spotlight hogs or make their DMPC super powerful compared with the players - and that's when the players stop (or never started to) have fun. If that's not a problem for you and your table then there's clearly no issue with them.
My brother's definitely had fun with my 3 main DMPCs, that I decided to bring them back for the next campaign
Why not let your brothers each run one? Players having two characters is very manageable, especially now that they are familiar with them.
I've thought about that, but I'm worried it would be a bit difficult for them to manage. Heck I've had trouble remembering that what one character is talking, and I was dming. Though I could be wrong, and over thinking it.
At the end of the day D&D is about having fun. If that's happening then keep it up. ; )
In general DMPC's are reviled because some DM's become spotlight hogs or make their DMPC super powerful compared with the players - and that's when the players stop (or never started to) have fun. If that's not a problem for you and your table then there's clearly no issue with them.
My brother's definitely had fun with my 3 main DMPCs, that I decided to bring them back for the next campaign
Why not let your brothers each run one? Players having two characters is very manageable, especially now that they are familiar with them.
I've thought about that, but I'm worried it would be a bit difficult for them to manage. Heck I've had trouble remembering that what one character is talking, and I was dming. Though I could be wrong, and over thinking it.
Yeah, I occasionally allow players to run DMPCs in Combat, and very rarely roleplay as long as they know their personality, but I normally handle everything, because only I, as the DM, knows everything about the DMPC's backstory and personality.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
At the end of the day D&D is about having fun. If that's happening then keep it up. ; )
In general DMPC's are reviled because some DM's become spotlight hogs or make their DMPC super powerful compared with the players - and that's when the players stop (or never started to) have fun. If that's not a problem for you and your table then there's clearly no issue with them.
My brother's definitely had fun with my 3 main DMPCs, that I decided to bring them back for the next campaign
Why not let your brothers each run one? Players having two characters is very manageable, especially now that they are familiar with them.
I've thought about that, but I'm worried it would be a bit difficult for them to manage. Heck I've had trouble remembering that what one character is talking, and I was dming. Though I could be wrong, and over thinking it.
Yeah, I occasionally allow players to run DMPCs in Combat, and very rarely roleplay as long as they know their personality, but I normally handle everything, because only I, as the DM, knows everything about the DMPC's backstory and personality.
Heck I'm still new to DMing I dont even know where to take these characters. XP I think since of the DMPC's a cleric, at level 8, I might have to multiclass him, just to avoid divine Intervention.
I introduced a half-orc EK DMPC about 6 sessions into a new campaign with 3 first time players, a beast master ranger, a moon druid, and a death domain cleric. Our cleric was already on their second character after running head first into a group of 5 orcs. The DMPC was the partys tank while they figured out the strengths and weakness of their characters and team comp. He's also there to help the players get more into role playing, asking basic background questions. He was also a good example of what characters can do in combat as I could break down each of his movements/ actions and explain them without explicitly telling the players how to play their characters. He's played EXTREMELY suboptimally, (forgets his spells cause he freezes at times) but isnt a dead weight to the team. He also makes NO DECISIONS. He'll give in character feedback but doesnt help with thinks likes puzzles and with his low wisdom is easy to play him as a bubble head.
My players really enjoy him and have even spent their own money buying him equipment. I may have him leave the party since their first major quest has been completed and they're al level 5 now, but I'll leave that up to the players.
As I understand DMPC, I don't. That is I don't insert a character into the party and have them advance along with the party on level progression and award experience etc. Why would I burden myself with the admin burdens of a Player when I have to run the rest of the world as well (and likely assist newer players on the admin borders of their characters)? So for me DMPCs detract from the DM role of "running the game" and thereby do a further disservice to the players (not even getting into the common pitfalls accused of DMPC favoritisms etc).
I do run a lot NPCs (and this is my soapbox toward all those who want to drop character sheets onto the monster side of the encounter builder). My NPCs have the PCs need for the game. Sometimes it's info. Sometimes its diverting entertainment baked in. Sometimes it's gear. And sometimes it's a stat block. I'd never marry those resources to the experience progression of the party. I guess in my view DMPCs are a limitation the DM employing them puts on the game in comparison to all the things a DM could do with NPCs (which is anything they want).
I can see the appeal of a DMPC in 1 player or 2 player games, but even then I've seen better advice on providing companions to those players through sidekicks or traditional NPC hirelings etc, which keep the stage focused on the players actions. Seth Sarkowsky does a great video on this on how to RP such companion in a solo game to actually accelerate a players decision making by really playing a sounding board who does nothing but reflects the player's questions back. It's a psychological trick used a lot in both educational and counseling settings, among others, and works incredibly in a RPG context.
If you really enjoy running a DMPC and you really are keeping the spotlights on the players, I wouldn't say you're playing wrong. I would say you're putting in more work than a DM really needs to, possibly at the expense of other elements of the game, but if everyone's having fun, do you.
I do have NPCs who I translate into PCs in other games I'm in, and those PC experiences may sometimes inform actions of the character in an NPC capacity. But all I'm doing there is having fun with head canon.
There are NPCs in my game for whom some PCs would put themselves at great risk including death to protect, impress or support. And I didn't have to level any of them up to earn them that status.
Okay, I know DMPCs are consider a bad thing for a dm to bring to the table. I've seen lots of people's stories about DMPCs being self inserts or being a mary sue, and the players really hate them.
But what about those players who actually like your DMPCs?
For example, when I first DMed Lost Mines of Phindelver, it was just me and my two older brothers, there were 3 character sheets left, and the campaign was not designed for less than 5 players, so I decided to take the three pregenerated character sheets, and use them to help give my players the full experiences of the campaign. Thus inadvertently making 3 DMPCs.
I made sure they never hogged the spotlight, and only keeping the same attention on the players, and made sure they didn't out shine the players.
And I was okay if these guys died, and one almost did. Heck there were moments the players had to save them. And my brothers really liked the characters. Some of the former enemy NPCs that they were able to recruit to their side I gave character classes to help them keep up, and better assist the players.
Now, I get to my point of this thread. One of my brothers, does not want to lose any of these characters, he would rather his own character die than any of the characters that he's befriended. It really showed in a couple of prologue one shot, when the wolf accompanying him and his goblin servants was nearly killed. He begged me to let him do the death saving throw, the wolf survived.
Which I took it as a sign that he really liked these characters. Even did the same thing when the dmpc was about to die.
My apologies for turning this into a bit of a rant, but I feel like everyone always talks about how the DM is the only one who likes to have DMPCs, but no one ever talks about if the Players liked the DMPCs.
Is it really bad to throw DMPCs in a campaign, even if the players seem to enjoy them?
Same boat here. My brother had his own character when he ran lost mines for me and his two older boys who wanted to learn and wanted me to play with them. Now I’m DM. I got bored with my character if played in lost mines (we just picked up hoard of the dragon queen with our same characters) so killed her off to the horror of my group. They rejoiced when I finally got the chance to intro a new character. I may get bored with her again but this time I’ve got a plan in place to just rotate through various dmpcs so I don’t get to the point of just putting my character out of her misery by offing her again.
My Homebrew Backgrounds | Feats | Magic Items | Monsters | Races | Subclasses
I use DMPC's, and they've been likable. They don't interrupt the players fun, don't unbalance the game, and act like any player.
I consider myself good at roleplay, because self inserts are just no good, and bias in an RPG based off real life circumstances just shouldn't interfere.
The most popular one with my group so far was a demonic kid warlock, in a modern setting campaign. He was a trouble maker and druggie, so he kept things lively but wouldn't cause actual trouble for the party.
Also known as CrafterB and DankMemer.
Here, have some homebrew classes! Subclasses to? Why not races. Feats, feats as well. I have a lot of magic items. Lastly I got monsters, fun, fun times.
Not every NPC ally is a DMPC. A DMPC is a character the DM treats as his PC. In general if you're making sure your NPCs aren't stealing the PCs spotlight, they aren't a problem.
Do you mean like saving the players constantly? Because if that's the case, I've only had one of the original DMPCs that was a human fighter, named Suzanne Hatchet, turned oath of Heroism Paladin (no multiclassing) come and save my brother's character after losing her left eye and right arm to the main antagonist of Dragon of Icespire Peak. And that was only as a means of reintroducing her.
That sounds very devilishly fun budump-tsh
If something is fun in your campaign, and both you and your players enjoy it, ignore what everyone else online is telling you to do or not to do.
I use DMPC's all the time, because I normally don't have enough players to have a full party, and they still want the ability to roleplay with other party members, even though there aren't enough people to play real PCs in the campaign.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
Thanks for the encouragement.
At the end of the day D&D is about having fun. If that's happening then keep it up. ; )
In general DMPC's are reviled because some DM's become spotlight hogs or make their DMPC super powerful compared with the players - and that's when the players stop (or never started to) have fun. If that's not a problem for you and your table then there's clearly no issue with them.
Mega Yahtzee Thread:
Highest 41: brocker2001 (#11,285).
Yahtzee of 2's: Emmber (#36,161).
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I created a DMPC just to start my campaign. Sam Goodfella. Rogue (tho he says he's a bard). My group was 100% new players.
He was there just to show players how to check character sheets, find stats, make rolls and the biggest one, an ice breaker to have players talk to each other as their characters. After the first night, there was an avalanche and their coach was thrown down the mountain. Sam was last seen being thrown out the window and never heard from again... Some say he's still out there tho... Ready to return when needed.
Dang. Sounds like a guy you sounds like a folk hero
My brother's definitely had fun with my 3 main DMPCs, that I decided to bring them back for the next campaign
I ran Waterdeep: Dragon Heist with one player, and 3 DMPCs.
No problem, my player loved all of them (except one, who was too boring, so he died later), and when they'd die, he'd do all that he could to get them back (except the boring one).
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
Oh man I actually used the last 3 pregenerated character sheets from lost mines of phindelver, and one of them, a lawful good human fighter (and only female in the group) rolled a nat 20 on intimidation was pretty awesome. And this same woman, after losing her right arm and left eye during a prologue, I am not kidding rolled a nat20 again on the same skill on the white dragon who nearly killed her. I was baffled. And i remade her into an oath of Heroism Paladin to show her growth.
Why not let your brothers each run one? Players having two characters is very manageable, especially now that they are familiar with them.
I've thought about that, but I'm worried it would be a bit difficult for them to manage. Heck I've had trouble remembering that what one character is talking, and I was dming. Though I could be wrong, and over thinking it.
Yeah, I occasionally allow players to run DMPCs in Combat, and very rarely roleplay as long as they know their personality, but I normally handle everything, because only I, as the DM, knows everything about the DMPC's backstory and personality.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
Heck I'm still new to DMing I dont even know where to take these characters. XP I think since of the DMPC's a cleric, at level 8, I might have to multiclass him, just to avoid divine Intervention.
I introduced a half-orc EK DMPC about 6 sessions into a new campaign with 3 first time players, a beast master ranger, a moon druid, and a death domain cleric. Our cleric was already on their second character after running head first into a group of 5 orcs. The DMPC was the partys tank while they figured out the strengths and weakness of their characters and team comp. He's also there to help the players get more into role playing, asking basic background questions. He was also a good example of what characters can do in combat as I could break down each of his movements/ actions and explain them without explicitly telling the players how to play their characters. He's played EXTREMELY suboptimally, (forgets his spells cause he freezes at times) but isnt a dead weight to the team. He also makes NO DECISIONS. He'll give in character feedback but doesnt help with thinks likes puzzles and with his low wisdom is easy to play him as a bubble head.
My players really enjoy him and have even spent their own money buying him equipment. I may have him leave the party since their first major quest has been completed and they're al level 5 now, but I'll leave that up to the players.
As I understand DMPC, I don't. That is I don't insert a character into the party and have them advance along with the party on level progression and award experience etc. Why would I burden myself with the admin burdens of a Player when I have to run the rest of the world as well (and likely assist newer players on the admin borders of their characters)? So for me DMPCs detract from the DM role of "running the game" and thereby do a further disservice to the players (not even getting into the common pitfalls accused of DMPC favoritisms etc).
I do run a lot NPCs (and this is my soapbox toward all those who want to drop character sheets onto the monster side of the encounter builder). My NPCs have the PCs need for the game. Sometimes it's info. Sometimes its diverting entertainment baked in. Sometimes it's gear. And sometimes it's a stat block. I'd never marry those resources to the experience progression of the party. I guess in my view DMPCs are a limitation the DM employing them puts on the game in comparison to all the things a DM could do with NPCs (which is anything they want).
I can see the appeal of a DMPC in 1 player or 2 player games, but even then I've seen better advice on providing companions to those players through sidekicks or traditional NPC hirelings etc, which keep the stage focused on the players actions. Seth Sarkowsky does a great video on this on how to RP such companion in a solo game to actually accelerate a players decision making by really playing a sounding board who does nothing but reflects the player's questions back. It's a psychological trick used a lot in both educational and counseling settings, among others, and works incredibly in a RPG context.
If you really enjoy running a DMPC and you really are keeping the spotlights on the players, I wouldn't say you're playing wrong. I would say you're putting in more work than a DM really needs to, possibly at the expense of other elements of the game, but if everyone's having fun, do you.
I do have NPCs who I translate into PCs in other games I'm in, and those PC experiences may sometimes inform actions of the character in an NPC capacity. But all I'm doing there is having fun with head canon.
There are NPCs in my game for whom some PCs would put themselves at great risk including death to protect, impress or support. And I didn't have to level any of them up to earn them that status.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.