I'm used to using those little Status rings you can buy or make to pick out a PC or an enemy that has been Stunned or Slowed or whatever. However, with the 2024 rules I see a lot more of them in my future. Aside from spells, many Martials can now also impose all sorts of effects on enemies with weapon attacks.
I'm a big fan of combats moving faster, not slower. I'm not sure WotC went the right way with this.
I have to agree. Last game I had slow rings, invisibility rings. I can't image needing to add stunned and everything else that can come up in a combat.
Could not agree more now we are going to have people fumbling around with weapon swaps - all with different effects / conditions.
So many things that could have been done to improve the martial classes - and after 10 years this is what they came up with - so disappointing.
L18 Wizard - time stop - 3 delayed action fireballs BAM - L18 Martial I do 3 attacks and miss one so I graze the mob for 5 damage lol yeah that will get folks bum rushing to play a martial class no doubt.
Lots of DM's I know have resorted to giving martials homebrew weapons that do about 8d6 or there abouts and have an interesting effect like bonus action misty step or whatever - I do not see that changing. These weapon effects are lipstick on a pig.
Could not agree more now we are going to have people fumbling around with weapon swaps - all with different effects / conditions.
I don't expect most people to be fumbling around with weapon swaps, and the types of tryhards that would take advantage of that are probably okay with more complicated tracking.
L18 Wizard - time stop - 3 delayed action fireballs BAM - L18 Martial I do 3 attacks and miss one so I graze the mob for 5 damage lol yeah that will get folks bum rushing to play a martial class no doubt.
Urr... not actually legal. Delayed blast fireball requires concentration.
I stand corrected on the 3 fireballs I was just making a point you could however assuming you roll a 3 haste / delayed action fireball / cone of cold break timestop then use the action from haste to get the heck out of dodge.
My only point here is that the delta between casters and martials (both in dps and fun factor) has not been made better by these relatively mild weapon effects that will no doubt add a layer of complexity to combat and as the OP said make them longer.
Martials just needed a dps bump or resistance bump or hp regen or all 3, as they are typically in the thick of the fight any or all of those could have improved their quality of life without over complicating rounds of combat.
At least none of the weapon properties impose any new statuses, so you don't need to buy new markers
Only Sap, Slow, and Topple impose statuses worth tracking, and all of them use statuses that already existed before. Sap has the same effect as Vicious Mockery, Slow had the same effect as Ray of Frost, and Topple just imposes Prone.
You might have more occurrences of the statuses happening, but at least none of them are new :-)
It's actualy kinda funny. They keep saying that they're "simplifying" the game and rules with 5th edition and now 5e24 - yet they end up doing the exact opposite and make things more complicated. They say they wanted to speed up combat from earlier editions, yet have made it take MUCH longer now that everyone gets to move, Action, Bonus Action, Free Interact... and now have basically also brought back the free action with their 'if using this weapon get a free additional attack'...
Add to that the ability now of all non-spellcasters to push, knock prone, slow, inflict disadvantage, get free advantage every round of every fight has (once again) made things MORE complicated, not less.
I think it's kinda funny - they keep accomplishing the exact opposite of what they set out to do...
Wonder if they're hiring... I'm very skilled at slappin' people up-side the head and saying, "what were you thinking". Sounds like they could use someone like me to proof-read their stuff before publishing.
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Playing D&D since 1982
Have played every version of the game since Basic (Red Box Set), except that abomination sometimes called 4e.
Could not agree more now we are going to have people fumbling around with weapon swaps - all with different effects / conditions.
I don't expect most people to be fumbling around with weapon swaps, and the types of tryhards that would take advantage of that are probably okay with more complicated tracking.
L18 Wizard - time stop - 3 delayed action fireballs BAM - L18 Martial I do 3 attacks and miss one so I graze the mob for 5 damage lol yeah that will get folks bum rushing to play a martial class no doubt.
Urr... not actually legal. Delayed blast fireball requires concentration.
The moment one player does the weapon swap thing, all the other players are going to do it as well, by necessity.
At least none of the weapon properties impose any new statuses, so you don't need to buy new markers
Only Sap, Slow, and Topple impose statuses worth tracking, and all of them use statuses that already existed before. Sap has the same effect as Vicious Mockery, Slow had the same effect as Ray of Frost, and Topple just imposes Prone.
You might have more occurrences of the statuses happening, but at least none of them are new :-)
At least none of the weapon properties impose any new statuses, so you don't need to buy new markers
Only Sap, Slow, and Topple impose statuses worth tracking, and all of them use statuses that already existed before. Sap has the same effect as Vicious Mockery, Slow had the same effect as Ray of Frost, and Topple just imposes Prone.
You might have more occurrences of the statuses happening, but at least none of them are new :-)
Yeah but before it wasn't an every round thing. It was like this guy is slowed until they saved. Now you have to remember if they are slowed until they saved or just for a round until someone goes. And what happens if they are slowed from two different sources? And which guy was slowed by which action?
Yeah but before it wasn't an every round thing. It was like this guy is slowed until they saved. Now you have to remember if they are slowed until they saved or just for a round until someone goes. And what happens if they are slowed from two different sources? And which guy was slowed by which action?
Ray of Frost and Vicious Mockery have always been an "until the start of your next turn" thing. They work exactly the same as Slow and Sap Weapon Mastery. There was never an "until you saved".
But, yeah, the more occurrences you have the harder to track who inflicted the status on whom. In the past it was quite unlikely that you have two players cast Vicious Mockery or two players cast Ray of Frost. Now it will be more likely to have two players inflicting the same status.
That said, I suspect that Slow and Sap won't be the main weapon masteries people will go for. I think Nick, Vex, Graze, and Cleave will see more usage.
I'm used to using those little Status rings you can buy or make to pick out a PC or an enemy that has been Stunned or Slowed or whatever. However, with the 2024 rules I see a lot more of them in my future. Aside from spells, many Martials can now also impose all sorts of effects on enemies with weapon attacks.
I'm a big fan of combats moving faster, not slower. I'm not sure WotC went the right way with this.
I have to agree. Last game I had slow rings, invisibility rings. I can't image needing to add stunned and everything else that can come up in a combat.
Could not agree more now we are going to have people fumbling around with weapon swaps - all with different effects / conditions.
So many things that could have been done to improve the martial classes - and after 10 years this is what they came up with - so disappointing.
L18 Wizard - time stop - 3 delayed action fireballs BAM - L18 Martial I do 3 attacks and miss one so I graze the mob for 5 damage lol yeah that will get folks bum rushing to play a martial class no doubt.
Lots of DM's I know have resorted to giving martials homebrew weapons that do about 8d6 or there abouts and have an interesting effect like bonus action misty step or whatever - I do not see that changing. These weapon effects are lipstick on a pig.
I don't expect most people to be fumbling around with weapon swaps, and the types of tryhards that would take advantage of that are probably okay with more complicated tracking.
Urr... not actually legal. Delayed blast fireball requires concentration.
I stand corrected on the 3 fireballs I was just making a point you could however assuming you roll a 3 haste / delayed action fireball / cone of cold break timestop then use the action from haste to get the heck out of dodge.
My only point here is that the delta between casters and martials (both in dps and fun factor) has not been made better by these relatively mild weapon effects that will no doubt add a layer of complexity to combat and as the OP said make them longer.
Martials just needed a dps bump or resistance bump or hp regen or all 3, as they are typically in the thick of the fight any or all of those could have improved their quality of life without over complicating rounds of combat.
At least none of the weapon properties impose any new statuses, so you don't need to buy new markers
Only Sap, Slow, and Topple impose statuses worth tracking, and all of them use statuses that already existed before. Sap has the same effect as Vicious Mockery, Slow had the same effect as Ray of Frost, and Topple just imposes Prone.
You might have more occurrences of the statuses happening, but at least none of them are new :-)
It's actualy kinda funny. They keep saying that they're "simplifying" the game and rules with 5th edition and now 5e24 - yet they end up doing the exact opposite and make things more complicated. They say they wanted to speed up combat from earlier editions, yet have made it take MUCH longer now that everyone gets to move, Action, Bonus Action, Free Interact... and now have basically also brought back the free action with their 'if using this weapon get a free additional attack'...
Add to that the ability now of all non-spellcasters to push, knock prone, slow, inflict disadvantage, get free advantage every round of every fight has (once again) made things MORE complicated, not less.
I think it's kinda funny - they keep accomplishing the exact opposite of what they set out to do...
Wonder if they're hiring... I'm very skilled at slappin' people up-side the head and saying, "what were you thinking". Sounds like they could use someone like me to proof-read their stuff before publishing.
Playing D&D since 1982
Have played every version of the game since Basic (Red Box Set), except that abomination sometimes called 4e.
The moment one player does the weapon swap thing, all the other players are going to do it as well, by necessity.
Yeah but before it wasn't an every round thing. It was like this guy is slowed until they saved. Now you have to remember if they are slowed until they saved or just for a round until someone goes. And what happens if they are slowed from two different sources? And which guy was slowed by which action?
Ray of Frost and Vicious Mockery have always been an "until the start of your next turn" thing. They work exactly the same as Slow and Sap Weapon Mastery. There was never an "until you saved".
But, yeah, the more occurrences you have the harder to track who inflicted the status on whom. In the past it was quite unlikely that you have two players cast Vicious Mockery or two players cast Ray of Frost. Now it will be more likely to have two players inflicting the same status.
That said, I suspect that Slow and Sap won't be the main weapon masteries people will go for. I think Nick, Vex, Graze, and Cleave will see more usage.