Hi all - looking for rules of thumb, stories, and anecdotal evidence. Here's my issue:
I play with a group of advanced, experienced players, and we do one-shots or short adventures with rotating DM's that change every 4-5 sessions, when the module or modules are completed. The party's Level 6 right now, running through a L6 module and they're wiping the floor with the monsters. As in swept, wiped, and waxed the floor with my poor monsters. It's awesome for them since it's a fun group- but here's my issue. I want to increase the difficulty level but I don't want to throw so much more at them that I risk TPK'ing them every other encounter. I belong to another game where that's the case, and I love the challenge- but that's not this game.
I've been DM'ing for the last year but played (and DM'd) extensively for years as a kid. Is there an easy rule of thumb on how to gradient-ly increase the difficulty to get to that sweet spot that I'm looking for? Playing 5e on R20 and Shard (which I LOVE, but needs, desperately, a bigger library).
Also, rather than scaling up encounters, you can just chain or combine encounters; a medium encounter by itself isn't scary, but two simultaneous encounters is pretty scary.
Snort. In life, love, and Dungeons and Dragons, the simplest advice is usually the most profound.
We’re on the second part of a three-part Giftmas in June trilogy- did a few preliminaries on Shard and then did a Santa on a Train module on Shard. From there I took over and we’re now doing Santa’s Evil Twin on 20, to be followed by Santa Versus the Body Snatchers, also on 20, after which someone else is gonna take over. It’s a TON of silly fun which, and I don’t know where you’re from, but we’re based out of Toronto, Canada, and we’re hurting for both silly and fun.
Use the encounter builder to scale it up a little higher. And more monsters can always charge out of the woods mid combat.
Have you read the book/blog: The monsters know what they’re doing? It has some great tactics. You could also try adding terrain complications, like pits, lava holes, sliding floors, or water combat. Monsters +place they know really well and the players don’t= difficult. Even kobolds can be a problem if their traps are going off while they snipe at the players from behind arrow slots and boxes.
Try evaluating each module encounter for its current difficulty, and scale them all up a tier. So easy becomes medium, medium becomes hard, hard becomes deadly, deadly even more deadly.
Specifically how you should do this is by rounding out your encounters with extra monsters of a missing type. I like to type monsters into 4 general groups:
Bruiser: these monsters are hard to kill because of high HP and AC, and deal melee damage primarily. Their job is to tank for the monsters.
Skirmishers: These monsters rely on evasion and speed to out maneuver the players. They are commonly ranged attackers but not always. They can have flying, phasing, stealth, disengage options or simply high movement speed. Their job is to neutralize priority targets like the party wizard, or anyone else who is weak or injured.
Spellcaster: Obviously these monsters cast spells primarily. This could be protective magic like counters and dispells, battlefield control, summoning, healing magic, buffing magic, or debuffing/damage dealing directed at the players.
Specialist: monsters that don't fit clearly into any of the above, and typically provides a unique and unusual challenge of some sort. The Gibbering Mouther is a good example of a specialist.
So bump up each encounter to the next tier by adding a few monsters of the type that it lacks. That will make them more challenging not only in raw exp worth the players are fighting, but they are more challenging with the diversity too. Most monsters, especially higher CRs, are a cross of 2 or more of these types but still tend to lean one way or the other.
Echoing “the monsters know what they’re doing.” Has great ideas on running them to make them more difficult. Also, maybe not for every encounter but for some specials I like action oriented monster suggestions from Matt Colville, or something similar. Here’s the link to his video: https://youtu.be/y_zl8WWaSyI
If the players are experienced, then they'll likely wipe the floor with whatever monsters you throw at them within reason. The thing about experienced players is that they don't make rookie mistakes for enemies to take advantage of; so unless as a DM you're actively setting up opportunities to wreck the PCs' faces, it's not going to happen. Sure, the odd monster might really have it out for them AND have a powerful attack or other gimmick; but most of the time, canny PCs will spot that monster a mile away and lock it down/remove it from the equation right out of the gate.
So, the keys to levelling the playing field are 2-fold:
1) give the monsters something active to achieve. Whether they have a plan in motion and a ticking clock; or they just have a really good mix of moves and options available so they're never stuck on the back foot, the monsters need to be able to do more than pick a target and hope they beat it. Your players should already have the same; so this is just about making sure the monsters aren't hobbled when comparing their agency to the agency of the players.
2) give the PCs something to care about protecting during the fight. That might just be their squishier party members, or it might be an NPC, or it might even be concern about collateral damage. Having to keep an eye on a secondary objective means that the adventurers can't just control the fight from the start (and at 6th level, unless you're handing out resistances/immunities and legendary actions like candy any party of experienced players is going to know how to take control of the battle area and dictate the terms of engagement), meaning that they have to make choices. And as a DM, making the PCs make choices is your best way to keep the narrative tense; which in turn leads to players making less-than-optimal decisions (and you should absolutely reward good RP when this happens!), meaning that your PCs can't just gather round and organise their strategy to wipe the floor every round.
And, bonus point number 3): sometimes the players are just going to play smart and wipe the floor with monsters, and that's ok too! DnD is a shared story, sure, but part of that story is about becoming powerful and wise and whatever. The players should be getting some big wins in; not everything will be a down-to-the-wire fight. Of course the opposite is true too, and it sounds like the PCs are having far too much success right now... that makes them feel powerful, and perfectly sets them up for the next big complication in the story! Whether it's that the monsters are getting more powerful, or that curbstomping monsters turns out to not be enough on its own (the PCs might have other objectives to worry about), or whatever else; once the players start to feel powerful and confident it's the perfect opportunity to hit them with a big question/challenge. You're not trying to pull the rug out from under them, but acknowledging that they've gained a new tier of power and now it's time they move up to the next challenge tier (unless they want to keep farming trivial encounters; in which case just play that story out -- what happens in the rest of the world if the PCs are too busy curbstomping under-levelled enemies to save it?)
Hey all, thanks for your tips. Yes, I own a copy of Monsters Know - changed the way I DM'd overnight.
Let me clarify my question: I'm looking for tips on balancing my encounters. On one hand, at level 6 they're punching well above their weight class and if I don't do something, they're going to wipe the floor with my poor monsters. On the other hand, if I just triple the monsters and/or jack them up to level 10 toughness, I'm going to TPK. Looking for tips on making that balance. Thanks!
On the fly, one way I have increased encounter difficulty is to give the monsters max HP. This can be done mid-combat if it looks like they are punching above weight class, and likely won't result in a TPK.
If they are in a dungeon environment, having an enemy run for reinforcements is another valid way on the fly to increase the difficulty of the combat, and you can scale the entry of new reinforcements in waves so that the current fight doesnt get too hard. It may also force your players to pursue or pick off those creatures rather than focus on the potentially more dangerous foes
Other things you can do would be finding creatures with interesting game mechanics or using the environment that can pose a different kind of challenge to your players. fighting in a trapped room, or using creatures with interesting abilities like damage absorption or hit point reduction (golems have a lot of this and are pretty durable, somewhat low damage monsters so a TPK is less likely) can keep players on their toes.
Hey all, thanks for your tips. Yes, I own a copy of Monsters Know - changed the way I DM'd overnight.
Let me clarify my question: I'm looking for tips on balancing my encounters. On one hand, at level 6 they're punching well above their weight class and if I don't do something, they're going to wipe the floor with my poor monsters. On the other hand, if I just triple the monsters and/or jack them up to level 10 toughness, I'm going to TPK. Looking for tips on making that balance. Thanks!
What classes/subclasses are you dealing with?
What kind of monsters does the module have in it?
One easy thing to do is just give monsters max HP. This keeps the damage output the same, keeps the combat from being bloated with extra monsters, but still makes the fights harder. Another thing to try is to give monsters "beam" attacks on their ranged attacks that do damage in a straight line. This makes them much more of a threat and adds a strategic element to the map.
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Hi all - looking for rules of thumb, stories, and anecdotal evidence. Here's my issue:
I play with a group of advanced, experienced players, and we do one-shots or short adventures with rotating DM's that change every 4-5 sessions, when the module or modules are completed. The party's Level 6 right now, running through a L6 module and they're wiping the floor with the monsters. As in swept, wiped, and waxed the floor with my poor monsters. It's awesome for them since it's a fun group- but here's my issue. I want to increase the difficulty level but I don't want to throw so much more at them that I risk TPK'ing them every other encounter. I belong to another game where that's the case, and I love the challenge- but that's not this game.
I've been DM'ing for the last year but played (and DM'd) extensively for years as a kid. Is there an easy rule of thumb on how to gradient-ly increase the difficulty to get to that sweet spot that I'm looking for? Playing 5e on R20 and Shard (which I LOVE, but needs, desperately, a bigger library).
Thanks in advance!
Read the dmg it suggests easy ways to scale up monsters and encounters (It is depressing I have to tell dm's to read the dmg regularly )
Also what module are you running
Check out my homebrew subclasses spells magic items feats monsters races
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help create a world here
Also, rather than scaling up encounters, you can just chain or combine encounters; a medium encounter by itself isn't scary, but two simultaneous encounters is pretty scary.
Snort. In life, love, and Dungeons and Dragons, the simplest advice is usually the most profound.
We’re on the second part of a three-part Giftmas in June trilogy- did a few preliminaries on Shard and then did a Santa on a Train module on Shard. From there I took over and we’re now doing Santa’s Evil Twin on 20, to be followed by Santa Versus the Body Snatchers, also on 20, after which someone else is gonna take over. It’s a TON of silly fun which, and I don’t know where you’re from, but we’re based out of Toronto, Canada, and we’re hurting for both silly and fun.
Use the encounter builder to scale it up a little higher. And more monsters can always charge out of the woods mid combat.
Have you read the book/blog: The monsters know what they’re doing? It has some great tactics. You could also try adding terrain complications, like pits, lava holes, sliding floors, or water combat. Monsters +place they know really well and the players don’t= difficult. Even kobolds can be a problem if their traps are going off while they snipe at the players from behind arrow slots and boxes.
Only spilt the party if you see something shiny.
Ariendela Sneakerson, Half-elf Rogue (8); Harmony Wolfsbane, Tiefling Bard (10); Agnomally, Gnomish Sorcerer (3); Breeze, Tabaxi Monk (8); Grace, Dragonborn Barbarian (7); DM, Homebrew- The Sequestered Lands/Underwater Explorers; Candlekeep
Try evaluating each module encounter for its current difficulty, and scale them all up a tier. So easy becomes medium, medium becomes hard, hard becomes deadly, deadly even more deadly.
Specifically how you should do this is by rounding out your encounters with extra monsters of a missing type. I like to type monsters into 4 general groups:
Bruiser: these monsters are hard to kill because of high HP and AC, and deal melee damage primarily. Their job is to tank for the monsters.
Skirmishers: These monsters rely on evasion and speed to out maneuver the players. They are commonly ranged attackers but not always. They can have flying, phasing, stealth, disengage options or simply high movement speed. Their job is to neutralize priority targets like the party wizard, or anyone else who is weak or injured.
Spellcaster: Obviously these monsters cast spells primarily. This could be protective magic like counters and dispells, battlefield control, summoning, healing magic, buffing magic, or debuffing/damage dealing directed at the players.
Specialist: monsters that don't fit clearly into any of the above, and typically provides a unique and unusual challenge of some sort. The Gibbering Mouther is a good example of a specialist.
So bump up each encounter to the next tier by adding a few monsters of the type that it lacks. That will make them more challenging not only in raw exp worth the players are fighting, but they are more challenging with the diversity too. Most monsters, especially higher CRs, are a cross of 2 or more of these types but still tend to lean one way or the other.
Echoing “the monsters know what they’re doing.” Has great ideas on running them to make them more difficult. Also, maybe not for every encounter but for some specials I like action oriented monster suggestions from Matt Colville, or something similar. Here’s the link to his video: https://youtu.be/y_zl8WWaSyI
If the players are experienced, then they'll likely wipe the floor with whatever monsters you throw at them within reason. The thing about experienced players is that they don't make rookie mistakes for enemies to take advantage of; so unless as a DM you're actively setting up opportunities to wreck the PCs' faces, it's not going to happen. Sure, the odd monster might really have it out for them AND have a powerful attack or other gimmick; but most of the time, canny PCs will spot that monster a mile away and lock it down/remove it from the equation right out of the gate.
So, the keys to levelling the playing field are 2-fold:
1) give the monsters something active to achieve. Whether they have a plan in motion and a ticking clock; or they just have a really good mix of moves and options available so they're never stuck on the back foot, the monsters need to be able to do more than pick a target and hope they beat it. Your players should already have the same; so this is just about making sure the monsters aren't hobbled when comparing their agency to the agency of the players.
2) give the PCs something to care about protecting during the fight. That might just be their squishier party members, or it might be an NPC, or it might even be concern about collateral damage. Having to keep an eye on a secondary objective means that the adventurers can't just control the fight from the start (and at 6th level, unless you're handing out resistances/immunities and legendary actions like candy any party of experienced players is going to know how to take control of the battle area and dictate the terms of engagement), meaning that they have to make choices. And as a DM, making the PCs make choices is your best way to keep the narrative tense; which in turn leads to players making less-than-optimal decisions (and you should absolutely reward good RP when this happens!), meaning that your PCs can't just gather round and organise their strategy to wipe the floor every round.
And, bonus point number 3): sometimes the players are just going to play smart and wipe the floor with monsters, and that's ok too! DnD is a shared story, sure, but part of that story is about becoming powerful and wise and whatever. The players should be getting some big wins in; not everything will be a down-to-the-wire fight. Of course the opposite is true too, and it sounds like the PCs are having far too much success right now... that makes them feel powerful, and perfectly sets them up for the next big complication in the story! Whether it's that the monsters are getting more powerful, or that curbstomping monsters turns out to not be enough on its own (the PCs might have other objectives to worry about), or whatever else; once the players start to feel powerful and confident it's the perfect opportunity to hit them with a big question/challenge. You're not trying to pull the rug out from under them, but acknowledging that they've gained a new tier of power and now it's time they move up to the next challenge tier (unless they want to keep farming trivial encounters; in which case just play that story out -- what happens in the rest of the world if the PCs are too busy curbstomping under-levelled enemies to save it?)
Hey all, thanks for your tips. Yes, I own a copy of Monsters Know - changed the way I DM'd overnight.
Let me clarify my question: I'm looking for tips on balancing my encounters. On one hand, at level 6 they're punching well above their weight class and if I don't do something, they're going to wipe the floor with my poor monsters. On the other hand, if I just triple the monsters and/or jack them up to level 10 toughness, I'm going to TPK. Looking for tips on making that balance. Thanks!
On the fly, one way I have increased encounter difficulty is to give the monsters max HP. This can be done mid-combat if it looks like they are punching above weight class, and likely won't result in a TPK.
If they are in a dungeon environment, having an enemy run for reinforcements is another valid way on the fly to increase the difficulty of the combat, and you can scale the entry of new reinforcements in waves so that the current fight doesnt get too hard. It may also force your players to pursue or pick off those creatures rather than focus on the potentially more dangerous foes
for longer term planning, I'd use the Epic House Rules in the article here: https://www.dndbeyond.com/posts/719-epic-house-rules-attack-its-weak-point-for-massive as an option for increasing the difficulty of your "bosses".
Other things you can do would be finding creatures with interesting game mechanics or using the environment that can pose a different kind of challenge to your players. fighting in a trapped room, or using creatures with interesting abilities like damage absorption or hit point reduction (golems have a lot of this and are pretty durable, somewhat low damage monsters so a TPK is less likely) can keep players on their toes.
What classes/subclasses are you dealing with?
What kind of monsters does the module have in it?
One easy thing to do is just give monsters max HP. This keeps the damage output the same, keeps the combat from being bloated with extra monsters, but still makes the fights harder. Another thing to try is to give monsters "beam" attacks on their ranged attacks that do damage in a straight line. This makes them much more of a threat and adds a strategic element to the map.