I am running a campaign for a party of 5 level 7 characters that will soon be facing a spellcaster BBEG. They are: A barbarian with a strength of 20 and a +2 greataxe, a fighter with maxed our Str and Dex and a +1 flail, a rogue with a +1 rapier, an artificer with a wand of lightning bolts, and a Divine Soul Sorc with the ability to add around 15 hit points to everyone in the party, some temp, because of extended spell aid and inspiring leader feat. (Side note- the magic items are not my fault, I'm taking over this campaign from another DM)
I looked at the CR 9 Necromancer from Volo's and was very unimpressed. 66hps and an armor class of 15 with mage armor? I give her 2 turns.
I decided, though, to use the stat block with some modifications. My plans are as follows:
They will encounter her in a ruin area with 6 pillars surrounding a dais. She will be standing atop the dais working on a ritual.
When they approach, purple vines (related to her previous displays of power) will ensnare the PCs, with an initial avoid DC of 20 (25?), and a later escape DC of 15.
She is protected by a forcefield powered by beating hearts in the six pillars. The forcefield will reflect damage back onto the PCs until the hearts are destroyed.
This will probably buy her a few rounds- 1 round to escape the grapple/discover the forcefield and the pillars, 1 round to stab the hearts, and 1 round to kill her. During the previous rounds, she will use circle of death and Bigby's Hand on the PCs, especially targeting the weak healer.
My question is, is this enough to create a fun and interesting combat? Or will it still be over way too fast? Any suggestions?
A CR 9 against 5 level 7s is a trash fight even if the PCs don't have super-high stats and gear, which yours seem to, I'd probably want CR 15-20 against the party you describe. However, prepared defenses such as you describe can make up for quite a bit of CR (I'm uncertain how much time they would actually buy, depends how much the PCs can figure out before stumbling into it).
I would recommend going with active threats rather than passive defenses, though. This isn't because of difficulty, it's because to make an interesting encounter you really want the enemy going multiple times per round, which means either legendary actions or multiple enemies.
A CR 9 against 5 level 7s is a trash fight even if the PCs don't have super-high stats and gear,
Exactly. A CR 9 ÷ 5 characters doesn't even breach the hard encounter threshold of 1,100xp for 7th level characters. Even if the encounter balancing math were perfect, this wouldn't be a challenge unless the characters had been extensively worn down before reaching the BBEG.
The Archmage from MM would be a better starting point for a BBEG for this party than the Necromancer from VG. Even then, some additional active threats and/or minions will likely be necessary.
I might just add 2xogre zombie and 2xminotaur skeleton as filler. At that point the necromancer is fine, 300+ hp of minions should slow the PCs down nicely, particularly since they're immune to cloudkill.
I might just add 2xogre zombie and 2xminotaur skeleton as filler. At that point the necromancer is fine, 300+ hp of minions should slow the PCs down nicely, particularly since they're immune to cloudkill.
Yeah, this. If a necromancer isn't going to have undead minions as cannon fodder, what's the point of even being a necromancer?
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
I like the idea of lair actions and damage reflection from wards in the lair. These will go quite a distance in making the fight invlove more than just hitting a bag of wet oatmeal. Maybe consider using the vines to control movement (push/drag/fling 15-30 feet) and the ability to call them back out on a subsequent round in a different form. Same with the wards, consider a second use when BBE drops to 0 HP.
I might expand on those to give your BBE some minions and the ability to control their actions/reactions as maybe a bonus action on their(BBE) turn, or legendary, after PC turns.
Depending on how dark you want the encounter to be, you could also lean into the Grim Harvest ability of the Necro to kill off emprisioned creatures around the lair. Could be an opportunity to give the PCs a secondary victory/loss condition, serve to distract the PCs and heal the BBE all at once. Which then, the slain prisoners could also rise as undead minions of the same villian serving again in undeath. Maybe swap out any zombie that is created by this for boneless, describing how the magic rends the flesh from bones of the victims.
How else does a Necromancer make friends? (Sorry, I'll see myself out...)
Also, the bog standard increase in HP for BBE and a critical eye towards that spell list to optimize for the 3-ish rounds that you are hoping for. IMHO, controlling the space in the lair/battlefield, contolling movement and damage reduction rate pretty high on the survival list for a single monster against a party.
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“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.” - Mark Twain - Innocents Abroad
There are a bunch of tactics that can be used here. A necromancer is a wizard after all and you are not bound by the listed spell list.
If the Necromancer is high enough (or you make it so), the one in the middle is a Simulacrum cast the day before. The real wizard is under a Greater Invisibility
Contingency precast with a any number of defensive options
Guards and Wards cast yesterday. See of some of the effects for hampering other players
Soul Cage was cast prior in the past, giving them a bonus action self heal or giving them advantage on a roll
Give them legendary actions similar to a Lich and perhaps lair actions.
IMHO, Wizards use their intellect to plan ahead and if this is the BBG, a very dangerous encounter. All the suggestions above are great options as well. You always have the option of not being efficient in your use of spells or tactics if you went overboard.
But one potential pitfall in the scenario are the hearts. Players sometimes miss the obvious, and so you should either make it obvious that minions are guarding them, or make it clear that the hearts are more than window dressing, and that they are a key part of the encounter. I can think of some groups that I have played with that would exhaust resources beating on the shield, and missing that kind of detail.
Even though a Necromancer isn’t a diviner, it’s still a wizard. And it has lots of minions. It has been spying on the PCs, hasn’t it? And it has a familiar, plus several zombie and skeleton minions, plus maybe even an intelligent ally or two, right?
One creative and evil idea is have Shadows hiding inside of the Necromancer’ s zombies so that when the zombies die the shadows reach out on their turn, revealing themselves, and attack. Don’t forget that you can give the Necromancer the ability to fly out of melee. The party has enough ranged attackers that they’ll be able to kill the Necromancer if it drinks a Potion of Flying before the fight starts and is hovering when the fight starts instead of standing on the platform.
I am also preparing a wizard necromancer big bad for my group, which is composed by two level five and two level six. I gave him minions (a few ghouls and a flameskull), set the area filled with bones that will turn into a skeletal juggernaut, set some glyphs of warding with spells like haste so that he can cast spells and chug healing potions in the same turn, had him cast thunder step as contingency, gave him shield and counterspell as reactions and gave him a legendary action that makes it so that if a player character is dropped to 0 HP he can make a spirit posses the body and have it fight while still throwing death saving throws. I also gave him around 90 hp and a bunch of teleportation options.
This is my first campaign and I am not sure if that is overboard or not. It looks like a lot on paper, but the planning sessions have my players thinking that they will focus fire on him as soon as possible and they are brainstorming ways to split him from his forces. Given that is fairly common for spellcasting big bads to get killed quickly. Just in case, they are near the base of a drider controlling giant spiders that are enemies of him, so I can have a third party interrupt if the fight is too one sided during the first round of combat in either direction.
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I am running a campaign for a party of 5 level 7 characters that will soon be facing a spellcaster BBEG. They are: A barbarian with a strength of 20 and a +2 greataxe, a fighter with maxed our Str and Dex and a +1 flail, a rogue with a +1 rapier, an artificer with a wand of lightning bolts, and a Divine Soul Sorc with the ability to add around 15 hit points to everyone in the party, some temp, because of extended spell aid and inspiring leader feat. (Side note- the magic items are not my fault, I'm taking over this campaign from another DM)
I looked at the CR 9 Necromancer from Volo's and was very unimpressed. 66hps and an armor class of 15 with mage armor? I give her 2 turns.
I decided, though, to use the stat block with some modifications. My plans are as follows:
This will probably buy her a few rounds- 1 round to escape the grapple/discover the forcefield and the pillars, 1 round to stab the hearts, and 1 round to kill her. During the previous rounds, she will use circle of death and Bigby's Hand on the PCs, especially targeting the weak healer.
My question is, is this enough to create a fun and interesting combat? Or will it still be over way too fast? Any suggestions?
Only spilt the party if you see something shiny.
Ariendela Sneakerson, Half-elf Rogue (8); Harmony Wolfsbane, Tiefling Bard (10); Agnomally, Gnomish Sorcerer (3); Breeze, Tabaxi Monk (8); Grace, Dragonborn Barbarian (7); DM, Homebrew- The Sequestered Lands/Underwater Explorers; Candlekeep
A CR 9 against 5 level 7s is a trash fight even if the PCs don't have super-high stats and gear, which yours seem to, I'd probably want CR 15-20 against the party you describe. However, prepared defenses such as you describe can make up for quite a bit of CR (I'm uncertain how much time they would actually buy, depends how much the PCs can figure out before stumbling into it).
I would recommend going with active threats rather than passive defenses, though. This isn't because of difficulty, it's because to make an interesting encounter you really want the enemy going multiple times per round, which means either legendary actions or multiple enemies.
Exactly. A CR 9 ÷ 5 characters doesn't even breach the hard encounter threshold of 1,100xp for 7th level characters. Even if the encounter balancing math were perfect, this wouldn't be a challenge unless the characters had been extensively worn down before reaching the BBEG.
The Archmage from MM would be a better starting point for a BBEG for this party than the Necromancer from VG. Even then, some additional active threats and/or minions will likely be necessary.
I might just add 2xogre zombie and 2xminotaur skeleton as filler. At that point the necromancer is fine, 300+ hp of minions should slow the PCs down nicely, particularly since they're immune to cloudkill.
Yeah, this. If a necromancer isn't going to have undead minions as cannon fodder, what's the point of even being a necromancer?
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
I like the idea of lair actions and damage reflection from wards in the lair. These will go quite a distance in making the fight invlove more than just hitting a bag of wet oatmeal. Maybe consider using the vines to control movement (push/drag/fling 15-30 feet) and the ability to call them back out on a subsequent round in a different form. Same with the wards, consider a second use when BBE drops to 0 HP.
I might expand on those to give your BBE some minions and the ability to control their actions/reactions as maybe a bonus action on their(BBE) turn, or legendary, after PC turns.
Depending on how dark you want the encounter to be, you could also lean into the Grim Harvest ability of the Necro to kill off emprisioned creatures around the lair. Could be an opportunity to give the PCs a secondary victory/loss condition, serve to distract the PCs and heal the BBE all at once. Which then, the slain prisoners could also rise as undead minions of the same villian serving again in undeath. Maybe swap out any zombie that is created by this for boneless, describing how the magic rends the flesh from bones of the victims.
How else does a Necromancer make friends? (Sorry, I'll see myself out...)
Also, the bog standard increase in HP for BBE and a critical eye towards that spell list to optimize for the 3-ish rounds that you are hoping for. IMHO, controlling the space in the lair/battlefield, contolling movement and damage reduction rate pretty high on the survival list for a single monster against a party.
“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.” - Mark Twain - Innocents Abroad
There are a bunch of tactics that can be used here. A necromancer is a wizard after all and you are not bound by the listed spell list.
IMHO, Wizards use their intellect to plan ahead and if this is the BBG, a very dangerous encounter. All the suggestions above are great options as well. You always have the option of not being efficient in your use of spells or tactics if you went overboard.
But one potential pitfall in the scenario are the hearts. Players sometimes miss the obvious, and so you should either make it obvious that minions are guarding them, or make it clear that the hearts are more than window dressing, and that they are a key part of the encounter. I can think of some groups that I have played with that would exhaust resources beating on the shield, and missing that kind of detail.
Even though a Necromancer isn’t a diviner, it’s still a wizard. And it has lots of minions. It has been spying on the PCs, hasn’t it? And it has a familiar, plus several zombie and skeleton minions, plus maybe even an intelligent ally or two, right?
One creative and evil idea is have Shadows hiding inside of the Necromancer’ s zombies so that when the zombies die the shadows reach out on their turn, revealing themselves, and attack. Don’t forget that you can give the Necromancer the ability to fly out of melee. The party has enough ranged attackers that they’ll be able to kill the Necromancer if it drinks a Potion of Flying before the fight starts and is hovering when the fight starts instead of standing on the platform.
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I am also preparing a wizard necromancer big bad for my group, which is composed by two level five and two level six. I gave him minions (a few ghouls and a flameskull), set the area filled with bones that will turn into a skeletal juggernaut, set some glyphs of warding with spells like haste so that he can cast spells and chug healing potions in the same turn, had him cast thunder step as contingency, gave him shield and counterspell as reactions and gave him a legendary action that makes it so that if a player character is dropped to 0 HP he can make a spirit posses the body and have it fight while still throwing death saving throws. I also gave him around 90 hp and a bunch of teleportation options.
This is my first campaign and I am not sure if that is overboard or not. It looks like a lot on paper, but the planning sessions have my players thinking that they will focus fire on him as soon as possible and they are brainstorming ways to split him from his forces. Given that is fairly common for spellcasting big bads to get killed quickly. Just in case, they are near the base of a drider controlling giant spiders that are enemies of him, so I can have a third party interrupt if the fight is too one sided during the first round of combat in either direction.