Party (all level 2) is investigating kidnappings and missing people. They find out the missing people are kidnapped and robbed, their bodies sold as meat to a goblin camp. They already took out the snatchers, now they found the base of the butchers.
After a tense battle the ranger does an investigation and gets a 21 (had advantage and got 21 twice), now I'm a new DM and wasn't completely prepared to give out some stuff (other than some plot clues and some mundane items) and it's the first time they got over a 20 for a non combat roll, so figured they deserved a little something. It was end of the session and I told the player I didn't have something prepared exactly (which they were cool with) but I would sort something out.
So what would be a good idea to sort out some treasure or stuff? Any good random tables (DnD or third party) you guys know off? Any help would be appreciated
If your PC rolls high enough to discover everything in the area, then they do. Understand that they got lucky, or maybe just focused really well that one time and looked like a badass for that one moment. Let that spotlight moment be the personal character reward, and divulge any and all information that there is to glean from the investigated area. If you feel prompted to drop in magic items or make a special handout to give the player, that might make it feel more special. But understand that there isn't, and shouldn't, be a requirement to do so.
Do what makes the most sense for the game world. If you drop something in, there might need to be a reason for it. Like Chekhov's Gun.
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“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.” - Mark Twain - Innocents Abroad
Another line of thought to the problem: Why, OP, did you ask him to roll for investigation? Just because a player states, that they are going to do something, does not automatically mean that they are allowed to roll.
If there is nothing to find, no roll in the world will result in something more.
However, other than that... why not go into something planned? Use the roll for a plot hook, for example. Are there deeper connections behind the snatchers, leading to something larger? Is there somewhere a note or a map from one of the victims, showing something unusual? I think, that is even more exiting than some wealth or items (I, for myself, hand out wealth and items in a very planned manner, no randoms here, the players are aware of).
This is perhaps a good case for adapting your game - instead of players saying "I will roll investigation" or "I will investigate", establish from them what it is they are looking at, or for. The player might say "I will investigate the area", and think that entitles them to the areas complete history and dental records of all people present if they roll a 20, but they aren't just avatars absorbing randomised amounts of information from the world around them as dictated by a dice roll - the dice decide how effective what they are doing is, and for that to work, you as DM need to know what they are doing. The conversation could have gone:
"I will investigate the area" "ok, what are you doing, what are you trying to find out?" "oh, um, I guess anything which seems relevant to finding out who was in charge?" "ok, roll investigation?" "21" "Oh cool, you look around and after a very brief look, you find that one of the huts is notably larger than the others, and the butcher you saw come out of it earlier is wearing a large chain and several silver rings, indicating that she might have been the leader".
Then they might investigate the hut, or move on, or search the body, and so on. I often will let them carry a roll on for a few things (EG if they then said "I will search the body" I would keep going with the 21, because that would have been part of their investigation).
So, my recommendation is that you ask the player what they were investigating, and then decide what they will find with that roll. In the above example, you might say that they find 1-3 rings and a gold chain on the chief. If one of them is a spellcaster, have a look at what spells they could get in the next couple of levels which require a material component with a cost and then just-so-happen to have one of those in a small box in one of the rooms, so that when they go to level up they're like "this spell needs >item<, that's cool, I've got one of those!".
It is a DM trap to think that "Wow! That was a good roll, I need to give them something special for rolling high!"
No, it isn't true, the DM doesn't give away stuff for high rolls, they adjudicate character interactions with the game world.
Ideally, the way it works, the DM knows what is there to be found and knows the DC required to find it. If the character says they are doing something that might find or discover something then the DM can say "Please roll investigation". If the number exceeds the DC for finding it then the DM tells them what they find if anything. The DM should not say, "Good die roll, here's a magic item to reward your high roll." (I'll make something up because it was such a high roll).
The DM can, of course, make up all sorts of stuff as you go along - it is great - but giving out cool stuff for high rolls is something you probably want to avoid as a regular thing - once in a long while is not an issue though.
P.S. The DM can also decide that any effort at looking will find the item, in which case you just narrate the result of the search or whatever action the character took. Alternatively, the DM could look at the character's passive investigation and if it is high enough then just narrate a difficult search that turns something up. If passive investigation isn't high enough and there is something to find then you can ask the player to make a roll.
Also something related to this. E.g. a Level 1 Rogue with point buy can easily start with +7 Investigation. This rogue needs a 14 or higher on his roll to get a 21 total. That is 35% of all rolls, so every third roll on average...
I can relate, to an extent, but truly, if you had decided that a 15 or something was the DC to find out what they needed to find out (drive plot) then it's a done deal. If you feel a NEED to reward a higher than "normal" investigation roll, toss a bag of gold (maybe 1 d100 gold in a small pouch behind the nightstand) as a "good job" reward? Don't overthink it Sometimes a PC will score a crit and then max damage it with a greatsword, on a Goblin with 3 HP left. He/she/they killed it, technically end of story. You want to make it gory and glory, dress it up, but I wouldn't offer anything truly meaty, like skipping steps or spoiler type info that wouldn't have been there.
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Talk to your Players.Talk to your DM. If more people used this advice, there would be 24.74% fewer threads on Tactics, Rules and DM discussions.
21 is not a high investigation. It is basically what a slightly above average person could do with a lot of luck. I can see someone finding unclotted blood to indicate someone that was still alive minutes ago, say on a finger with a ring indicating the person's name.
30 is 'impossible' and should reveal things along the lines of Sherlock Holmes. There were 6 professional butchers of X race that went North, within the last hour. Two wore leather boots, 3 wore metal boots, and one wearing the shoes of a scholarly person rather than armor. Likely a Wizard but could be a merchant or other non-adventurer.
With a 21, I would just give the player any clues present at the site, based off of what the players said they were looking for.
You're under no obligation to invent clues that weren't/ wouldn't be present just because they rolled a 21. Likewise, you don't need to give up the whole game. However, say they're investigating some bodies left behind by the killer and they rolled a 21 investigation examining the bodies, you wouldn't say "ah yes the twist is they're being sold as meat to the goblin camps", but you could say "the long, straight wounds you see on the body looks like they'd match a butcher's knife" or "the bandits you killed in the fight all have goblin coins in their coinpouches". Basically, the investigation roll reveals the clues, but it DOESN'T solve them for the players.
And if there really isn't anything to reveal on the scene, you can 100% respond to a 21 investigation with "yeah you carefully confirm that there's nothing out of the ordinary here. Whoever is doing this must be covering their tracks."
such an high intelligence (Investigation) check should let the character learn or deduce a high ammount of information based on what prompted the check. They could figure out more about the reasons and modus operandi of the human kidnapping / trafficing operations. its all up to the DM in the end what one learn from a successful information check.
Agree with others a investigation role doesn't find things that are not there. A high roll finds everything, at low levels you might set the DC for everything at 20 but by level 5 when players are likely to have a +4 in their main stat and +3 proficiency you will need to increase that.
Even at level 2 if the mjority of skill checks are made with guidance you migth find rolls over 20 are too common for you want to give them everything.
Also something related to this. E.g. a Level 1 Rogue with point buy can easily start with +7 Investigation. This rogue needs a 14 or higher on his roll to get a 21 total. That is 35% of all rolls, so every third roll on average...
This is what I was thinking too. At higher levels, scores of 20+ for Investigation, Perception, Persuasion etc. are very common.
In this case, if the DM wants to give something out I'd suggest that their investigating uncovers something that seems it would have been missed on a lower roll. Maybe there's a discoloured patch of mud that looks different to the ground around it. If the PCs dig there, they can uncover a box of loot - some additional gold, a spell scroll the goblins couldn't use, and maybe a fun Common magic item that would reasonably have been buried (a Cloak of Billowing is always fun).
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So here is the setting:
Party (all level 2) is investigating kidnappings and missing people. They find out the missing people are kidnapped and robbed, their bodies sold as meat to a goblin camp. They already took out the snatchers, now they found the base of the butchers.
After a tense battle the ranger does an investigation and gets a 21 (had advantage and got 21 twice), now I'm a new DM and wasn't completely prepared to give out some stuff (other than some plot clues and some mundane items) and it's the first time they got over a 20 for a non combat roll, so figured they deserved a little something. It was end of the session and I told the player I didn't have something prepared exactly (which they were cool with) but I would sort something out.
So what would be a good idea to sort out some treasure or stuff? Any good random tables (DnD or third party) you guys know off? Any help would be appreciated
If your PC rolls high enough to discover everything in the area, then they do. Understand that they got lucky, or maybe just focused really well that one time and looked like a badass for that one moment. Let that spotlight moment be the personal character reward, and divulge any and all information that there is to glean from the investigated area. If you feel prompted to drop in magic items or make a special handout to give the player, that might make it feel more special. But understand that there isn't, and shouldn't, be a requirement to do so.
Do what makes the most sense for the game world. If you drop something in, there might need to be a reason for it. Like Chekhov's Gun.
“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.” - Mark Twain - Innocents Abroad
Another line of thought to the problem: Why, OP, did you ask him to roll for investigation? Just because a player states, that they are going to do something, does not automatically mean that they are allowed to roll.
If there is nothing to find, no roll in the world will result in something more.
However, other than that... why not go into something planned? Use the roll for a plot hook, for example. Are there deeper connections behind the snatchers, leading to something larger? Is there somewhere a note or a map from one of the victims, showing something unusual? I think, that is even more exiting than some wealth or items (I, for myself, hand out wealth and items in a very planned manner, no randoms here, the players are aware of).
This is perhaps a good case for adapting your game - instead of players saying "I will roll investigation" or "I will investigate", establish from them what it is they are looking at, or for. The player might say "I will investigate the area", and think that entitles them to the areas complete history and dental records of all people present if they roll a 20, but they aren't just avatars absorbing randomised amounts of information from the world around them as dictated by a dice roll - the dice decide how effective what they are doing is, and for that to work, you as DM need to know what they are doing. The conversation could have gone:
"I will investigate the area"
"ok, what are you doing, what are you trying to find out?"
"oh, um, I guess anything which seems relevant to finding out who was in charge?"
"ok, roll investigation?"
"21"
"Oh cool, you look around and after a very brief look, you find that one of the huts is notably larger than the others, and the butcher you saw come out of it earlier is wearing a large chain and several silver rings, indicating that she might have been the leader".
Then they might investigate the hut, or move on, or search the body, and so on. I often will let them carry a roll on for a few things (EG if they then said "I will search the body" I would keep going with the 21, because that would have been part of their investigation).
So, my recommendation is that you ask the player what they were investigating, and then decide what they will find with that roll. In the above example, you might say that they find 1-3 rings and a gold chain on the chief. If one of them is a spellcaster, have a look at what spells they could get in the next couple of levels which require a material component with a cost and then just-so-happen to have one of those in a small box in one of the rooms, so that when they go to level up they're like "this spell needs >item<, that's cool, I've got one of those!".
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Nothing?
It is a DM trap to think that "Wow! That was a good roll, I need to give them something special for rolling high!"
No, it isn't true, the DM doesn't give away stuff for high rolls, they adjudicate character interactions with the game world.
Ideally, the way it works, the DM knows what is there to be found and knows the DC required to find it. If the character says they are doing something that might find or discover something then the DM can say "Please roll investigation". If the number exceeds the DC for finding it then the DM tells them what they find if anything. The DM should not say, "Good die roll, here's a magic item to reward your high roll." (I'll make something up because it was such a high roll).
The DM can, of course, make up all sorts of stuff as you go along - it is great - but giving out cool stuff for high rolls is something you probably want to avoid as a regular thing - once in a long while is not an issue though.
P.S. The DM can also decide that any effort at looking will find the item, in which case you just narrate the result of the search or whatever action the character took. Alternatively, the DM could look at the character's passive investigation and if it is high enough then just narrate a difficult search that turns something up. If passive investigation isn't high enough and there is something to find then you can ask the player to make a roll.
Also something related to this. E.g. a Level 1 Rogue with point buy can easily start with +7 Investigation. This rogue needs a 14 or higher on his roll to get a 21 total. That is 35% of all rolls, so every third roll on average...
I can relate, to an extent, but truly, if you had decided that a 15 or something was the DC to find out what they needed to find out (drive plot) then it's a done deal. If you feel a NEED to reward a higher than "normal" investigation roll, toss a bag of gold (maybe 1 d100 gold in a small pouch behind the nightstand) as a "good job" reward? Don't overthink it Sometimes a PC will score a crit and then max damage it with a greatsword, on a Goblin with 3 HP left. He/she/they killed it, technically end of story. You want to make it gory and glory, dress it up, but I wouldn't offer anything truly meaty, like skipping steps or spoiler type info that wouldn't have been there.
Talk to your Players. Talk to your DM. If more people used this advice, there would be 24.74% fewer threads on Tactics, Rules and DM discussions.
21 is not a high investigation. It is basically what a slightly above average person could do with a lot of luck. I can see someone finding unclotted blood to indicate someone that was still alive minutes ago, say on a finger with a ring indicating the person's name.
30 is 'impossible' and should reveal things along the lines of Sherlock Holmes. There were 6 professional butchers of X race that went North, within the last hour. Two wore leather boots, 3 wore metal boots, and one wearing the shoes of a scholarly person rather than armor. Likely a Wizard but could be a merchant or other non-adventurer.
With a 21, I would just give the player any clues present at the site, based off of what the players said they were looking for.
You're under no obligation to invent clues that weren't/ wouldn't be present just because they rolled a 21. Likewise, you don't need to give up the whole game. However, say they're investigating some bodies left behind by the killer and they rolled a 21 investigation examining the bodies, you wouldn't say "ah yes the twist is they're being sold as meat to the goblin camps", but you could say "the long, straight wounds you see on the body looks like they'd match a butcher's knife" or "the bandits you killed in the fight all have goblin coins in their coinpouches". Basically, the investigation roll reveals the clues, but it DOESN'T solve them for the players.
And if there really isn't anything to reveal on the scene, you can 100% respond to a 21 investigation with "yeah you carefully confirm that there's nothing out of the ordinary here. Whoever is doing this must be covering their tracks."
such an high intelligence (Investigation) check should let the character learn or deduce a high ammount of information based on what prompted the check. They could figure out more about the reasons and modus operandi of the human kidnapping / trafficing operations. its all up to the DM in the end what one learn from a successful information check.
Agree with others a investigation role doesn't find things that are not there. A high roll finds everything, at low levels you might set the DC for everything at 20 but by level 5 when players are likely to have a +4 in their main stat and +3 proficiency you will need to increase that.
Even at level 2 if the mjority of skill checks are made with guidance you migth find rolls over 20 are too common for you want to give them everything.
This is what I was thinking too. At higher levels, scores of 20+ for Investigation, Perception, Persuasion etc. are very common.
In this case, if the DM wants to give something out I'd suggest that their investigating uncovers something that seems it would have been missed on a lower roll. Maybe there's a discoloured patch of mud that looks different to the ground around it. If the PCs dig there, they can uncover a box of loot - some additional gold, a spell scroll the goblins couldn't use, and maybe a fun Common magic item that would reasonably have been buried (a Cloak of Billowing is always fun).