Ok so I need a little help here. My actual questions are at the bottom, but for context;
The party (4 level 7s) have been back and forth with a bad for several sessions. She's an assassin who's a high up in a shady organisation, and between various actions has earned the hatred of the party. She's tormenting them because Fighter has one of her mcguffins.
Last session, after unsuccessfully trying to kill Fighter when he was alone the previous session, Bad visited Ranger while she was home alone. Ranger, realising she was in a pickle, went quietly with Bad to be a hostage. After some tense negotiations, Bad agreed with Fighter to meet in a nearby courtyard and exchange mcguffin for Ranger.
Party had several plans to hijack the exchange, among which was plan D which involved Barbarian digging a 15ft deep hole, 5ft in diameter, so that Warlock could minor illusion ground where the hole is, and maybe Bad would fall in.
Bad arrives with Ranger over her shoulder. She has reduced Ranger to 1hp, planning to use a crossbow she has that permakills anyone reduced to 0 in order to make sure negotiations run smoothly. She rolls a 2 to notice the illusion, for a total of 10, and falls into the pit. Barbarian immediately declares that he's diving in after her, and Fighter declares that he is doing the same. I end the session.
Bad is a level 12 half orc monk, with double hp. She has Cape of the Mountebank, Bracers of Defense, and a homebrew item that lets her cast shadow blade and darkness at the same time. Mountebank bamf is on cool down, which Ranger knows.
My first plan is of course to try and negotiate. I haven't yet telegraphed to the players that she is able to permakill, so it would be feelsbad to do that. I don't think the players will be open to negotiations anyway, they're determined to kill Bad. Bad doesn't stand a chance 1v3.
So the questions;
1) how do you combat in a 5ft diameter hole?
2) how do you climb out of a 15ft deep hole while in combat with 2 angry dwarves that are above you in said hole?
3) does an unconscious creature on 1hp that is slung over the shoulder of another creature take fall damage?
4) what the hell do I do? Every way out I can think of feels cheap.
1) The space a creature occupy is a space in it's control, and you can't willingly end your move in another creature's space, forced movement is possible during a fall. Those taking damage from the fall would be prone in the pit. Bottom line is that multiple humans-size creatures can fit in a 5 x 5. You can always rule that cramped tight like this attack rolls have disadvantage.
2) Climbing is possible during comba, it will provoke an Opportunity Attack when leaving enemy's reach. You could always rule that the Strenght (Athletic) checks have disadvantage.
3) An unconscious creature still takes damage at the end of a fall. You can always rule that being carried absorbed the shock and didn't take any damage. If not the Ranger will have to make Death saving throws.
4) The party came with a cool plan to trap Bad and it worked, they finally have a chance to finish with the assassin that's after them and possibly save their friend i would let combat dictate the outcome. The permakill ability is only a problem if Bad attacks the downed Ranger while the rest of the party represent a threat to it much more than the unconscious character so it's your choice to kill it or not. Even if the Ranger is killed, there could be a possibility of it being brought back to life with Revivify, Raise Dead or Ressurection spell. Bad is in a very bad position is all i can say ;)
1) I agree, disadvantage on attacks - and with three medium sized creatures in the same sized 5x5 ft area at the bottom of the pit, it seems unlikely that they will be able to wield any actual weapons effectively in that space.
4) What do you do when the party get hold of the perma-kill magic item?
Disadvantage on attacks and athletics is a smart idea to make it fit the theme, I think I'll go with that. Probably also Dex saves while in such close quarters.
Starting the fight with the ranger down could add some cool tension to it.
There were a few story beats that I was hoping to hit with Bad, but I think rewarding the plan with a chance to close it out is the right move here. I'm tempted to add a note on her person that lets the story continue.
I'm actually going to just remove the permakill item as the party aren't aware of it. The fight should be quick and intense, and doesn't need that adding into the mix.
So, if the bad orc is a lvl 12 monk, why not just "run" up the walls of the pit, they have unarmoured movement which enables them to run up verticle surfaces so you could narratively say as the others attempt to dog pile into the hole there is some opposed athletics/acrobatics to jocky for space, attempt grapples etc and then Orc monk boing-flips itself from wall to wall and jumps out the hole, it uses disengage actions to avoid attacks of oppotunity and then let the players decide what they are going to do next.
Because I can see the players wanting to jump out the hole, here's a link to a jump/distance calculator that might help you out of a hole....
Oh yeah forgot about Unarmored Movement, the Monk can easily get out of the pit leaving behind the unconscious creature Ranger. Might even move a grappled target 20 feet at half speed (40 ft) leaving all the others prone in the pit!
I also didn't spot Unarmored Movement. Never ran a monk before this. That's a very helpful observation, thank you. I think she'll stand and fight for a bit, with disadvantage for everyone, and when it starts to go south then make a climb and run for it. Great call, thank you.
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Ok so I need a little help here. My actual questions are at the bottom, but for context;
The party (4 level 7s) have been back and forth with a bad for several sessions. She's an assassin who's a high up in a shady organisation, and between various actions has earned the hatred of the party. She's tormenting them because Fighter has one of her mcguffins.
Last session, after unsuccessfully trying to kill Fighter when he was alone the previous session, Bad visited Ranger while she was home alone. Ranger, realising she was in a pickle, went quietly with Bad to be a hostage. After some tense negotiations, Bad agreed with Fighter to meet in a nearby courtyard and exchange mcguffin for Ranger.
Party had several plans to hijack the exchange, among which was plan D which involved Barbarian digging a 15ft deep hole, 5ft in diameter, so that Warlock could minor illusion ground where the hole is, and maybe Bad would fall in.
Bad arrives with Ranger over her shoulder. She has reduced Ranger to 1hp, planning to use a crossbow she has that permakills anyone reduced to 0 in order to make sure negotiations run smoothly. She rolls a 2 to notice the illusion, for a total of 10, and falls into the pit. Barbarian immediately declares that he's diving in after her, and Fighter declares that he is doing the same. I end the session.
Bad is a level 12 half orc monk, with double hp. She has Cape of the Mountebank, Bracers of Defense, and a homebrew item that lets her cast shadow blade and darkness at the same time. Mountebank bamf is on cool down, which Ranger knows.
My first plan is of course to try and negotiate. I haven't yet telegraphed to the players that she is able to permakill, so it would be feelsbad to do that. I don't think the players will be open to negotiations anyway, they're determined to kill Bad. Bad doesn't stand a chance 1v3.
So the questions;
1) how do you combat in a 5ft diameter hole?
2) how do you climb out of a 15ft deep hole while in combat with 2 angry dwarves that are above you in said hole?
3) does an unconscious creature on 1hp that is slung over the shoulder of another creature take fall damage?
4) what the hell do I do? Every way out I can think of feels cheap.
1) The space a creature occupy is a space in it's control, and you can't willingly end your move in another creature's space, forced movement is possible during a fall. Those taking damage from the fall would be prone in the pit. Bottom line is that multiple humans-size creatures can fit in a 5 x 5. You can always rule that cramped tight like this attack rolls have disadvantage.
2) Climbing is possible during comba, it will provoke an Opportunity Attack when leaving enemy's reach. You could always rule that the Strenght (Athletic) checks have disadvantage.
3) An unconscious creature still takes damage at the end of a fall. You can always rule that being carried absorbed the shock and didn't take any damage. If not the Ranger will have to make Death saving throws.
4) The party came with a cool plan to trap Bad and it worked, they finally have a chance to finish with the assassin that's after them and possibly save their friend i would let combat dictate the outcome. The permakill ability is only a problem if Bad attacks the downed Ranger while the rest of the party represent a threat to it much more than the unconscious character so it's your choice to kill it or not. Even if the Ranger is killed, there could be a possibility of it being brought back to life with Revivify, Raise Dead or Ressurection spell. Bad is in a very bad position is all i can say ;)
1) I agree, disadvantage on attacks - and with three medium sized creatures in the same sized 5x5 ft area at the bottom of the pit, it seems unlikely that they will be able to wield any actual weapons effectively in that space.
4) What do you do when the party get hold of the perma-kill magic item?
Thanks for the response.
Disadvantage on attacks and athletics is a smart idea to make it fit the theme, I think I'll go with that. Probably also Dex saves while in such close quarters.
Starting the fight with the ranger down could add some cool tension to it.
There were a few story beats that I was hoping to hit with Bad, but I think rewarding the plan with a chance to close it out is the right move here. I'm tempted to add a note on her person that lets the story continue.
I'm actually going to just remove the permakill item as the party aren't aware of it. The fight should be quick and intense, and doesn't need that adding into the mix.
I appreciate the advice 🙂
So, if the bad orc is a lvl 12 monk, why not just "run" up the walls of the pit, they have unarmoured movement which enables them to run up verticle surfaces so you could narratively say as the others attempt to dog pile into the hole there is some opposed athletics/acrobatics to jocky for space, attempt grapples etc and then Orc monk boing-flips itself from wall to wall and jumps out the hole, it uses disengage actions to avoid attacks of oppotunity and then let the players decide what they are going to do next.
Because I can see the players wanting to jump out the hole, here's a link to a jump/distance calculator that might help you out of a hole....
https://fexlabs.com/5ejump/
Oh yeah forgot about Unarmored Movement, the Monk can easily get out of the pit leaving behind the unconscious creature Ranger. Might even move a grappled target 20 feet at half speed (40 ft) leaving all the others prone in the pit!
I also didn't spot Unarmored Movement. Never ran a monk before this. That's a very helpful observation, thank you. I think she'll stand and fight for a bit, with disadvantage for everyone, and when it starts to go south then make a climb and run for it. Great call, thank you.