So, I typically play the adventures pretty much as written, but recently I've got a table with 9 PCs. I was wondering if anyone has experience with such a large party in 5e, and any quick conversion rules to make the encounters appropriate. I've been doubling hp and adding 3 or 4 to AC and to-hit, but still seems a bit off. Thanks.
I have the same issue running SKT with a party of 8. Adding more monsters in SKT can be a problem since that usually means more giants. I've found adding less powerful monsters like trolls with fire giants, ogres with hill giants and winter wolves with frost giants can help even things without getting too deadly for the group. Here's what I've found helpful.
I use an encounter calculator (like kobold fight club) to find the XP budget for the encounter levels (easy hard deadly etc) for the encounter as written for the party it was intended. SKT is written for 4-6 players so I use 5 players at the given level of the chapter. I then compute the actual party's XP budget for the same set of encounters. Since there are more players the XP budget will be higher by anywhere between 25% and 33% depending on the level of the group. I compare the two budgets and derive a factor by which to scale the original encounter.
This worked fairly well during Lost Mine, but the levels of the group made things more difficult in SKT (there's a druid that summons bears and such), so I'm buffing monster hp on top of increasing the XP budget.
I have found, since most of my groups are 6-8 players, that only adding monsters and/or increasing stats can be the equivalent to putting a band-aid on a severed limb; it'll stop some of the problem but...well...
The use of larger groups of monsters and increasing their stats will work at the onset of a game; you'll be able to deplete the resources of your players, you'll possibly get the smart group who runs instead of fights, and you'll create a sense of danger. Then, you hit level 3 or 5...the dynamic of the party is going to change and it'll be, almost completely, in the favor of your players. You'll find yourself in a position to escalate the numbers, inflate the AC and HP of your monsters, and what should be a short encounter has become a battle of attrition.
The approach I finally found, and your results will vary, was to stop worrying about the monsters as sacks of numbers trying to take out other sacks of numbers. I started thinking in terms of PvP and I was the other team. When my team was starting to struggle I changed tactics, goblins may not be the brightest but they will know that head to head combat is going poorly and will change tactics. Case in point:
I had a group of 6 level 4 players ambushed by 6 goblins, this should have been a cakewalk for the players, however terrain made the combat intense. A fighter/warlock, 2 druids, a rogue, a monk/cleric, and a sorcerer, the group had climbed down into a cavern and made a base camp. The many shelves of rock jutting out made descent relatively easy and signs of some humanoid creature were apparent in the area. Their camp was put into a bit of a recess in the wall under the shelves they had descended and facing one of the two tunnels available to them. As morning approached they heard the sounds of the goblins approaching but couldn't tell where from as the sound echoed off the walls in a disorienting manner. The first goblins saw the party's sentry and opened fire, the rest of the goblins swarmed down the shelves, maintaining ranged combat distance. Using the shelves as cover they hurled rocks, arrows and bullets at the party, eventually knocking 2 of them unconscious. As the combat ensued one of the goblins blew a raiding horn causing other goblins from the tunnels to start heading toward the fray. As the party downed the last of the goblins on the shelves they watched as one tunnel light up with torch light, another 6 goblins approached, this time the fight was over in a few rounds, though one more party member was knocked unconscious. As the second half of the fight began to go poorly for the goblins, rather than fight, they ran, and the entire population of goblins in those caves was now aware of the adventuring party in their caves.
Players are supposed to win, the game is built to give them every tool to win, as a GM we have to accept that. But as a GM we need to challenge them, so why not make the monsters learn the same way the players do. Why not make the monsters just as tricky as the players? Lastly, as I put it to my players, "Be careful; anything you can do, so can my creatures."
So, I typically play the adventures pretty much as written, but recently I've got a table with 9 PCs. I was wondering if anyone has experience with such a large party in 5e, and any quick conversion rules to make the encounters appropriate. I've been doubling hp and adding 3 or 4 to AC and to-hit, but still seems a bit off. Thanks.
You're using prewritten adventures? Add more monsters to the encounter.
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Yes, like Out of the Abyss and Storm King's Thunder. More monsters you say? Alright, Ill give that a try.
I have the same issue running SKT with a party of 8. Adding more monsters in SKT can be a problem since that usually means more giants. I've found adding less powerful monsters like trolls with fire giants, ogres with hill giants and winter wolves with frost giants can help even things without getting too deadly for the group. Here's what I've found helpful.
I use an encounter calculator (like kobold fight club) to find the XP budget for the encounter levels (easy hard deadly etc) for the encounter as written for the party it was intended. SKT is written for 4-6 players so I use 5 players at the given level of the chapter. I then compute the actual party's XP budget for the same set of encounters. Since there are more players the XP budget will be higher by anywhere between 25% and 33% depending on the level of the group. I compare the two budgets and derive a factor by which to scale the original encounter.
This worked fairly well during Lost Mine, but the levels of the group made things more difficult in SKT (there's a druid that summons bears and such), so I'm buffing monster hp on top of increasing the XP budget.
I have found, since most of my groups are 6-8 players, that only adding monsters and/or increasing stats can be the equivalent to putting a band-aid on a severed limb; it'll stop some of the problem but...well...
The use of larger groups of monsters and increasing their stats will work at the onset of a game; you'll be able to deplete the resources of your players, you'll possibly get the smart group who runs instead of fights, and you'll create a sense of danger. Then, you hit level 3 or 5...the dynamic of the party is going to change and it'll be, almost completely, in the favor of your players. You'll find yourself in a position to escalate the numbers, inflate the AC and HP of your monsters, and what should be a short encounter has become a battle of attrition.
The approach I finally found, and your results will vary, was to stop worrying about the monsters as sacks of numbers trying to take out other sacks of numbers. I started thinking in terms of PvP and I was the other team. When my team was starting to struggle I changed tactics, goblins may not be the brightest but they will know that head to head combat is going poorly and will change tactics. Case in point:
I had a group of 6 level 4 players ambushed by 6 goblins, this should have been a cakewalk for the players, however terrain made the combat intense. A fighter/warlock, 2 druids, a rogue, a monk/cleric, and a sorcerer, the group had climbed down into a cavern and made a base camp. The many shelves of rock jutting out made descent relatively easy and signs of some humanoid creature were apparent in the area. Their camp was put into a bit of a recess in the wall under the shelves they had descended and facing one of the two tunnels available to them. As morning approached they heard the sounds of the goblins approaching but couldn't tell where from as the sound echoed off the walls in a disorienting manner. The first goblins saw the party's sentry and opened fire, the rest of the goblins swarmed down the shelves, maintaining ranged combat distance. Using the shelves as cover they hurled rocks, arrows and bullets at the party, eventually knocking 2 of them unconscious. As the combat ensued one of the goblins blew a raiding horn causing other goblins from the tunnels to start heading toward the fray. As the party downed the last of the goblins on the shelves they watched as one tunnel light up with torch light, another 6 goblins approached, this time the fight was over in a few rounds, though one more party member was knocked unconscious. As the second half of the fight began to go poorly for the goblins, rather than fight, they ran, and the entire population of goblins in those caves was now aware of the adventuring party in their caves.
Players are supposed to win, the game is built to give them every tool to win, as a GM we have to accept that. But as a GM we need to challenge them, so why not make the monsters learn the same way the players do. Why not make the monsters just as tricky as the players? Lastly, as I put it to my players, "Be careful; anything you can do, so can my creatures."