I'm sure this has been addressed somewhere, but I can't think of the keywords...
Obviously, players equip whatever armor and weapons they choose, and that's great. However, I have trouble accepting that, for example, our paladin wears full plate into a tavern meeting with a merchant leader. OR that players are fully-equipped with armor and weapons when woken from a sound sleep.
My players have rankled when I point this out, and I've decided to fight another day, if you will. In other words, "Fine, whatever, you clank your way into the tavern in 200 pounds of gleaming plate, also bearing a shield and claymore."
What are some other (better?) was of injecting some "reality" into the fantasy?
I'd say just have NPCs react to it. Someone walks into a Tavern in full plate with a greatsword on their back, everyone's gonna think this is an attack or a police raid or something. Maybe people assume that they're police of some sort and go to them to report crimes or things like that.
Something I've seen implemented before is that sleeping in full armor, while it does give the benefits of a Long Rest, also causes the PC to gain a level of exhaustion, since they can't properly rest while wearing armor.
look in Xanathar's under 'sleeping in armor' in chapter 2. I do actively penalize my players if they try to sleep in full armor. We play a lot of waterdeep and I have the Watch harass them if they try just walking around town in full armor - citizens will call the guard claiming they were threatened (just imagine the common IRL scenarios when clowns are walking around with AR15s strapped to their backs - same effect)....they actually loose business in trollskull manor if one the characters are sitting around in full plate - just a sign of trouble. It also makes surprise attacks a lot more effective.
There's something to be said about injecting reality into the game, but if players want to live a heroic fantasy, things like that can become more like a chore than part of the game. I personally don't track that, and we just go by the unspoken assumption that armor is worn in the correct times, unless something dire comes up that we need to track it. But that's what works for me and my players.
If your players rankle too much about implementing this rule, my advice would be to just leave it out (if you can do so while still having fun yourself).
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I know what you're thinking: "In that flurry of blows, did he use all his ki points, or save one?" Well, are ya feeling lucky, punk?
D&D and other games are kind like movies. No one bats an eye if the star of the movie shows up in not appropriate dress unless it is a plot point. But I thinking some one mentioned Xanathar. But here are some things my armour would do. Left knee cop would clank. (in fact at one war. A lady in her tent was saying hello as we passed by her closed tent. She knew us by the sound of our armour.) Interesting sunburns. Armour funk which attracts monsters from 300 feet away. Burns first or second degree from leaving armour uncover in the car/on the field.
Now if is is not a tavern, but a high lord, judge, think high class places then NPCS would react.
look in Xanathar's under 'sleeping in armor' in chapter 2. I do actively penalize my players if they try to sleep in full armor. We play a lot of waterdeep and I have the Watch harass them if they try just walking around town in full armor - citizens will call the guard claiming they were threatened (just imagine the common IRL scenarios when clowns are walking around with AR15s strapped to their backs - same effect)....they actually loose business in trollskull manor if one the characters are sitting around in full plate - just a sign of trouble. It also makes surprise attacks a lot more effective.
Just a note, you do whatever you want of course but Waterdeep has deeply rooted adventurer presence to the point where they are not only a common sight but also a welcomed sight (historically adventurers helped the city a LOT) so while there should be some reaction to brandishing weapons, I personally wouldn't be too hard on the players for just wearing armor.
Something I've seen implemented before is that sleeping in full armor, while it does give the benefits of a Long Rest, also causes the PC to gain a level of exhaustion, since they can't properly rest while wearing armor.
They shouldn't GAIN a level of exhaustion... they just can't rest properly enough to REMOVE a level of exhaustion sleeping in armor. Also, they don't recover a full percentage of their used hit dice... so there is a mechanism for it and strong reasons to rest comfortably in towns and inns... but a way for a party feeling that they are in danger to actually rest while wearing armor. (Referencing Xanathar's Guide in the section on Sleep).
I would note that the builds most inconvenienced by lack of heavy armor (strength melee builds mostly) are already generally considered a bit suboptimal compared to dexterity builds, so it seems like the wrong set of characters to nerf.
As a Player... I've played with someone that was militant about Armor and such and really wanted to penalize my cleric for wearing heavy armor everywhere. It got bad enough that I bought and slept in studded leather just so I wasn't affected so badly when we were attacked in the night (which happened WAY too often). Don't be that guy. It wasn't fun for anyone. It certainly did not help in any immersive sense. It just made me find a workaround which isn't realistic either... but when you have a Dex of 0 because you were trying to be able to heal your party and you only had two good stats... you do what you can.
Absolutely have NPCs react to players. My cleric would have been happy to lift his holy symbol and ask if they needed any healing or help in any way. Take away the weapons... but give a poor cleric the common decency to be protected from inevitable doom. Even resting in a "safe" place never felt safe and we were jumped too frequently to not take it into consideration.
They are supposed to be exactly like movies and books of the genre. D&D is certainly not aiming at being a historical medieval realistic simulator.
No one bats an eye if the star of the movie shows up in not appropriate dress unless it is a plot point. But I thinking some one mentioned Xanathar. But here are some things my armour would do. Left knee cop would clank. (in fact at one war. A lady in her tent was saying hello as we passed by her closed tent. She knew us by the sound of our armour.) Interesting sunburns. Armour funk which attracts monsters from 300 feet away. Burns first or second degree from leaving armour uncover in the car/on the field.
Now if is is not a tavern, but a high lord, judge, think high class places then NPCS would react.
The thing is that all of the above is fun to the players. But knowing that they are deprived of their armor because the DM intends them to fight with that kind of disadvantage is certainly not fun. That should be the main criterion for these kind of decisions.
I will say as a player and a dm I really don’t worry about it because of the movie aspect. Think about almost every tv show and movie, the love interests go to bed, and almost always wake up in underwear, now are we meant to stop and consider that post “fun” they then stopped and got semi dressed again? I find, as with many things in DnD like ammo for bows, low level spell components and worrying about rations and water when out in the wilds it was fun to track at low levels but by level 3 there is too much other stuff going on to worry about book keeping it.
Now if the players are asleep inside I auto assume they are not wearing armor, because that makes no sense.
As a Player... I've played with someone that was militant about Armor and such and really wanted to penalize my cleric for wearing heavy armor everywhere. It got bad enough that I bought and slept in studded leather just so I wasn't affected so badly when we were attacked in the night (which happened WAY too often). Don't be that guy. It wasn't fun for anyone.
You've mentioned the real problem but missed it entirely. The problem isn't your DM requiring you to take off your armor. It's your DM attacking you at night while you are sleeping. Even if you are in your armor, your long rest has still been ruined and has to be restarted, doing that is no benefit to the game. I've read more published adventures than most, and I can't think of one that encourages or even suggests a GM should attack the PC while resting. Of course, if your GM makes you feel vulnerable when you take off your armor, you will not want to take it off. But if that's the case, your GM isn't interested in realism or immersion; they are just trying to make it easier to attack you.
Now they might not be doing this, and you might just be paranoid. Encounters where you are not at your best are still fun so long as the GM balances the encounter for your weakened condition. What this whole armor conversation comes down to is Player-DM trust. If a Player trusts their DM, then when the DM says, "You took off your armor because it's heavy and uncomfortable and you are relaxing at an inn, just like you do when sleeping." Then the Player should respond with, "Oh ya, I guess that makes sense." But if there is no trust, then the Player saying, "No, I want to keep my armor on anyways." Really means, "I don't trust you; you're trying to hurt me."
If you don't trust that your DM's goal is to make the game fun and interesting for you, then don't play with them. But, don't pretend the issue is realism, immersion, or suspension of disbelief.
I've read more published adventures than most, and I can't think of one that encourages or even suggests a GM should attack the PC while resting.
because most official modules are all designed around 6-8 encounters between long rests....in my experience (and almost without exception), groups attempt to (or at least seriously consider) take a long rest between every significant encounter.
well unless they say they take off their armour they keep it on you shouldnt be forcing them into reality its a fantasy roleplaying game i get certain aspects need to be semi realistic but you shouldnt be forcing them to take off their armour like if you want before they enter the tavern ask them do they wanna put their weapon away to seem less threatening
I've read more published adventures than most, and I can't think of one that encourages or even suggests a GM should attack the PC while resting.
because most official modules are all designed around 6-8 encounters between long rests....in my experience (and almost without exception), groups attempt to (or at least seriously consider) take a long rest between every significant encounter.
The DMG advises that, but none of the modules I've read actually follows that model.
Keep in mind that an "encounter" doesn't necessarily mean a combat. A tense negotiation is an "encounter", traveling through a trapped hallway is an "encounter"... anything that might cost the players resources (whether it's HP in combat, spending Bardic Inspiration to help with moving a big rock, casting Charm Person to avoid conflict) is considered an encounter.
Keep in mind that an "encounter" doesn't necessarily mean a combat.
Actually, an encounter does mean a combat. The "6-8 encounters" standard is derived from the daily xp budget divided by the medium encounter xp budget, and non-combat encounters don't have an xp budget nor count against it.
I've read more published adventures than most, and I can't think of one that encourages or even suggests a GM should attack the PC while resting.
because most official modules are all designed around 6-8 encounters between long rests....in my experience (and almost without exception), groups attempt to (or at least seriously consider) take a long rest between every significant encounter.
That a problem of players lack of resource management. If the player Nova the first goblin they see then you are going to have to find a way to encourage them to stop doing that. The real problem here is "significant encounter" what is that? Dungeons are generally filled with a bunch of low level encounters intended to soften the party up for the dungeon boss to increase the tension of the final fight. However, bad luck in virtually any encounter can threaten to knock out the party and might force them to retreat and rest before continuing. That's not a flaw,it's just happenstance. Also while the game MIGHT be designed around a model of 6-8 encounters between long rests, that doesn't mean it has adhere to that strictly. Anyone can point to adventure were in a single day there is only one encounter, or no encounters. And the point still remains that, even while being designed around 6-8 encounters, that no adventure I can think of ever suggested, let alone encouraged, a DM to attack the party at night while resting.
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I'm sure this has been addressed somewhere, but I can't think of the keywords...
Obviously, players equip whatever armor and weapons they choose, and that's great. However, I have trouble accepting that, for example, our paladin wears full plate into a tavern meeting with a merchant leader. OR that players are fully-equipped with armor and weapons when woken from a sound sleep.
My players have rankled when I point this out, and I've decided to fight another day, if you will. In other words, "Fine, whatever, you clank your way into the tavern in 200 pounds of gleaming plate, also bearing a shield and claymore."
What are some other (better?) was of injecting some "reality" into the fantasy?
I'd say just have NPCs react to it. Someone walks into a Tavern in full plate with a greatsword on their back, everyone's gonna think this is an attack or a police raid or something. Maybe people assume that they're police of some sort and go to them to report crimes or things like that.
Something I've seen implemented before is that sleeping in full armor, while it does give the benefits of a Long Rest, also causes the PC to gain a level of exhaustion, since they can't properly rest while wearing armor.
Watch Crits for Breakfast, an adults-only RP-Heavy Roll20 Livestream at twitch.tv/afterdisbooty
And now you too can play with the amazing art and assets we use in Roll20 for our campaign at Hazel's Emporium
look in Xanathar's under 'sleeping in armor' in chapter 2. I do actively penalize my players if they try to sleep in full armor. We play a lot of waterdeep and I have the Watch harass them if they try just walking around town in full armor - citizens will call the guard claiming they were threatened (just imagine the common IRL scenarios when clowns are walking around with AR15s strapped to their backs - same effect)....they actually loose business in trollskull manor if one the characters are sitting around in full plate - just a sign of trouble. It also makes surprise attacks a lot more effective.
Guide to the Five Factions (PWYW)
Deck of Decks
This.
Merchant: You expecting a fight? Are you intending to mug me? Or are you just proud of that rusty sweaty funk you got going on?
It doesn't have to be a bad reaction (as noted above), but the world should be reacting to what the PCs are doing.
There's something to be said about injecting reality into the game, but if players want to live a heroic fantasy, things like that can become more like a chore than part of the game. I personally don't track that, and we just go by the unspoken assumption that armor is worn in the correct times, unless something dire comes up that we need to track it. But that's what works for me and my players.
If your players rankle too much about implementing this rule, my advice would be to just leave it out (if you can do so while still having fun yourself).
I know what you're thinking: "In that flurry of blows, did he use all his ki points, or save one?" Well, are ya feeling lucky, punk?
Sounds not fun for the players and busy work for the DM to keep track of this.
Have none of you read Dragonlance?
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
D&D and other games are kind like movies. No one bats an eye if the star of the movie shows up in not appropriate dress unless it is a plot point. But I thinking some one mentioned Xanathar. But here are some things my armour would do. Left knee cop would clank. (in fact at one war. A lady in her tent was saying hello as we passed by her closed tent. She knew us by the sound of our armour.) Interesting sunburns. Armour funk which attracts monsters from 300 feet away. Burns first or second degree from leaving armour uncover in the car/on the field.
Now if is is not a tavern, but a high lord, judge, think high class places then NPCS would react.
No Gaming is Better than Bad Gaming.
Just a note, you do whatever you want of course but Waterdeep has deeply rooted adventurer presence to the point where they are not only a common sight but also a welcomed sight (historically adventurers helped the city a LOT) so while there should be some reaction to brandishing weapons, I personally wouldn't be too hard on the players for just wearing armor.
They shouldn't GAIN a level of exhaustion... they just can't rest properly enough to REMOVE a level of exhaustion sleeping in armor. Also, they don't recover a full percentage of their used hit dice... so there is a mechanism for it and strong reasons to rest comfortably in towns and inns... but a way for a party feeling that they are in danger to actually rest while wearing armor. (Referencing Xanathar's Guide in the section on Sleep).
I would note that the builds most inconvenienced by lack of heavy armor (strength melee builds mostly) are already generally considered a bit suboptimal compared to dexterity builds, so it seems like the wrong set of characters to nerf.
As a Player... I've played with someone that was militant about Armor and such and really wanted to penalize my cleric for wearing heavy armor everywhere. It got bad enough that I bought and slept in studded leather just so I wasn't affected so badly when we were attacked in the night (which happened WAY too often). Don't be that guy. It wasn't fun for anyone. It certainly did not help in any immersive sense. It just made me find a workaround which isn't realistic either... but when you have a Dex of 0 because you were trying to be able to heal your party and you only had two good stats... you do what you can.
Absolutely have NPCs react to players. My cleric would have been happy to lift his holy symbol and ask if they needed any healing or help in any way. Take away the weapons... but give a poor cleric the common decency to be protected from inevitable doom. Even resting in a "safe" place never felt safe and we were jumped too frequently to not take it into consideration.
I will say as a player and a dm I really don’t worry about it because of the movie aspect. Think about almost every tv show and movie, the love interests go to bed, and almost always wake up in underwear, now are we meant to stop and consider that post “fun” they then stopped and got semi dressed again? I find, as with many things in DnD like ammo for bows, low level spell components and worrying about rations and water when out in the wilds it was fun to track at low levels but by level 3 there is too much other stuff going on to worry about book keeping it.
Now if the players are asleep inside I auto assume they are not wearing armor, because that makes no sense.
You've mentioned the real problem but missed it entirely. The problem isn't your DM requiring you to take off your armor. It's your DM attacking you at night while you are sleeping. Even if you are in your armor, your long rest has still been ruined and has to be restarted, doing that is no benefit to the game. I've read more published adventures than most, and I can't think of one that encourages or even suggests a GM should attack the PC while resting. Of course, if your GM makes you feel vulnerable when you take off your armor, you will not want to take it off. But if that's the case, your GM isn't interested in realism or immersion; they are just trying to make it easier to attack you.
Now they might not be doing this, and you might just be paranoid. Encounters where you are not at your best are still fun so long as the GM balances the encounter for your weakened condition. What this whole armor conversation comes down to is Player-DM trust. If a Player trusts their DM, then when the DM says, "You took off your armor because it's heavy and uncomfortable and you are relaxing at an inn, just like you do when sleeping." Then the Player should respond with, "Oh ya, I guess that makes sense." But if there is no trust, then the Player saying, "No, I want to keep my armor on anyways." Really means, "I don't trust you; you're trying to hurt me."
If you don't trust that your DM's goal is to make the game fun and interesting for you, then don't play with them. But, don't pretend the issue is realism, immersion, or suspension of disbelief.
because most official modules are all designed around 6-8 encounters between long rests....in my experience (and almost without exception), groups attempt to (or at least seriously consider) take a long rest between every significant encounter.
Guide to the Five Factions (PWYW)
Deck of Decks
well unless they say they take off their armour they keep it on you shouldnt be forcing them into reality its a fantasy roleplaying game i get certain aspects need to be semi realistic but you shouldnt be forcing them to take off their armour like if you want before they enter the tavern ask them do they wanna put their weapon away to seem less threatening
The DMG advises that, but none of the modules I've read actually follows that model.
Keep in mind that an "encounter" doesn't necessarily mean a combat. A tense negotiation is an "encounter", traveling through a trapped hallway is an "encounter"... anything that might cost the players resources (whether it's HP in combat, spending Bardic Inspiration to help with moving a big rock, casting Charm Person to avoid conflict) is considered an encounter.
Watch Crits for Breakfast, an adults-only RP-Heavy Roll20 Livestream at twitch.tv/afterdisbooty
And now you too can play with the amazing art and assets we use in Roll20 for our campaign at Hazel's Emporium
Actually, an encounter does mean a combat. The "6-8 encounters" standard is derived from the daily xp budget divided by the medium encounter xp budget, and non-combat encounters don't have an xp budget nor count against it.
That a problem of players lack of resource management. If the player Nova the first goblin they see then you are going to have to find a way to encourage them to stop doing that. The real problem here is "significant encounter" what is that? Dungeons are generally filled with a bunch of low level encounters intended to soften the party up for the dungeon boss to increase the tension of the final fight. However, bad luck in virtually any encounter can threaten to knock out the party and might force them to retreat and rest before continuing. That's not a flaw,it's just happenstance. Also while the game MIGHT be designed around a model of 6-8 encounters between long rests, that doesn't mean it has adhere to that strictly. Anyone can point to adventure were in a single day there is only one encounter, or no encounters. And the point still remains that, even while being designed around 6-8 encounters, that no adventure I can think of ever suggested, let alone encouraged, a DM to attack the party at night while resting.