Perhaps I've had an odd career as a DM, but I've never DM'd for complete strangers.
Over the years, all my players have been at least friends, friends-of-friends, or casual acquaintances. Many have been completely new to RPGs, so newbies aren't novel for me - but strangers are.
I've also only ever DM'd in person; I've never run an online game.
But I've begun to think that I need to broaden my scope and get exposure to more players, and more kinds of players.
So, I'm thinking of running a series of one-shots ( one adventure arc, possibly multiple sessions, shake hands, move on ) as "pick up games", using Discord.
I'm still planning on using a lot of the same "set up tools" as I would for a traditional table-top: some form of session 0, even if by email; composing some sort of document describing my style of play; detail any possible house rules I might be using; etc.
But what I'm wondering - for those of you that have run online games and/or games for strangers, if you have noticed any issues particular to running these kinds of games? Any advice or warnings?
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I've had a little bit of experience with D&D PUGs (pick-up games) online through Roll20 and Discord.
To be frank, for me it was more often a bad experience than a good one. Here are some warnings.
#1 Tech problems. There was always one person who couldn't get their microphone to work, or their internet was running too slow, or their Discord crashed mid-session. I got to a point where anytime I scheduled a game, I'd try to make sure there was additional time allotted for people figuring our their tech.
#2 Personality Clashes. There was usually one person who liked playing contrarily to how everyone wanted to play--an antagonizer and PvP instigator disguised as "I like to roleplay this way." There's also the diva players who want the session to be all about their character and nobody else. The homebrewer that only wants to play using their own imbalanced homebrew class, race, and background.
#3 Game Understanding. This is semi-related to #2, but there was always one or two people who apparently had no interest in following the rules of the game. Like, they'd want to try and take three or four complicated actions every turn, and then complain when they're only allowed one. There are players who have no concept of what meta-gaming is, how to correctly calculate stats, how to use spell slots and prepare spells, etc. etc. With this you have to ask yourself if you're comfortable taking time to teach new players how to play, and how much you're willing to argue about rules with people who think they understand them, but don't.
#4 Language Gaps. When you look for players online you'll actually find a lot of people playing who don't speak English as their native language. If you have an ear for accents this isn't really a problem; however, I've had other players be quite rude toward someone because they couldn't understand their accent.
#5 The nature of one-shots. D&D wasn't particularly fun, for me, to play in one-shot sessions. I think the most rewarding part of the game is seeing the outcomes of long-term progress. You don't get to experience that a lot with PUGs.
Can't really say much. Last time I played online was through IRC. Not sure that even exists today. Also I'm someone who doesn't give a shit about most things. Getting anxious, nervous or something isn't my thing. Just talk to the people on your discord, get to know them a little and off you go. However what will be used besides Discord? Roll20 or FantasyGrounds for the battlemaps and hand-outs and such? I've been looking into that stuff as well to do a DND stream with some online buddies.
With the style of DM you described elsewhere. I always wonder if narrative driven gameplay is even suitable for, relatively short, one shots. Feels to me it is better suited for the typical dungeon delve.
Tech problems is certainly something to take time for. Last few months Discord is a pain and often just doesn't even recognize my microphone. Meaning I need to spend 15-20mins just to get it working. However this is the players responsibility as well. You know at which time to start so get on early to fix your things. Same for real life play sessions. We start at 16:00...so I expect my players to be there before that time and get their things setup and ready to go. If you play with different people each one-shot this is bit more difficult. Even though it should be common practice and sign of respect.
Personality clashes is something you always have. But I can see this being a bigger issue through the internet. A larger pool of players to draw from. Each with their own experiences and playstyles. If you're unlucky you get a bad batch. However a session 0 should make most expectations clear. Also getting some basic agreements out on the table as well to prevent such clashes. If it doesn't work out just remove the player. Did you check the Play-by-Post section and such? There are TONS of players to choose from to find the group that suits your DM-style. While there are barely any DM... Supply and Demand is in our favor. Wanna play? Then it'll be by our rules mwahah ;)
Language gaps could be a thing. But is it really a problem if you play using american continent time zones? If you play in european time zones you got a ton of different languages to deal with.
Tech problems: Yes, these occur, and I've run into them playing a combination of Tabletop Simulator and Discord for strategic war games. I can do tech support, but I think it's an excellent call out that this might require extra time, and one should be prepared for the possibility of permanently loosing a player partway through a session, and having to run them as an NPC. If I try using pre-gens - as this is a one-shot - that shouldn't be too bad ( for me ).
I hadn't considered anything other than Discord ( or some similar service ), because my group has shifted to non-battlemat combat, but that's not a particularly popular style of combat these days. I will have to give that some thought.
Character creation, and giving copies to the DM, would be easiest for me if that was handled through one of my DnD Beyond campaign slots.
Hand out and documents I can probably hand out with online links and Google Docs - which is where I keep most of my notes anyways.
Personality Clash: Probably completely unavoidable, but given the nature of one-shots, they're clashes one only has to manage for 1-3 sessions. Then that person doesn't get invited back to the next PUG. I think 1-3 sessions is something I can buckle down and weather. Besides, the object of part of the exercise is to get me out of my comfort zone - so ... yay personality clashes?
Plus I have pretty exhaustive Session 0 templates developed for my tabletop sessions - I can pretty specifically lay out what the planned game style will be, and what my approach is like.
Game Understanding: Not something I'd considered, but if I can't enforce the rules in the face of someone trying to cheat, why am I even trying to DM? As for teaching new players - that's not something I'm unfamiliar with :) Over half my current group were newbies. My current Bard is still someone I have to walk through rules periodically, despite the campaign being nearly a year old ( something I plan on having a sit down with him about, actually ).
In fact, I may try and specifically run a one-shot PUG for novice players.
Languages: As I'm a uni-lingual anglophone, I'm going to have to be restricted to English speaking players. Through work, I'm used to communicating with people who are just barely English speaking, so that's not new ground for me.
Play Style: @Giblix I think you're dead right that extended narrative style play is not in the cards for short length PUGs. That's OK, as I know that going in, and - again - part of the exercise is to get playing in areas of gaming outside where I normally play. It's the disconnect between expectation and reality that is a problem - so not having the expectation of narrative based gaming here is important. Plus, if I get tired of it, and think that this really isn't how I want to game after all, then I just stick it out until the end of the one-shot, fold up shop, and go home.
Disclaimer: This signature is a badge of membership in the Forum Loudmouth Club. We are all friends. We are not attacking each other. We are engaging in spirited, friendly debate with one another. We may get snarky, but these are not attacks. Thank you for not reporting us.
The biggest thing to look for i found is no shows, which you can't do anything for one shots. So you may perhaps include may be 1-2 more players than you anticipate in order to compensate.
For longer campaign, i highly suggest interviews, it help determine seriousness and seize character personalities. Depending where you advertise, you may get a lot of candidate interested and it's worth taking the time to get in touch with potential players before and assemble your group, especially for a campaigns that may last months if not years. And when you loose players along the way, i suggest recruiting in the same fashion before you integrate a new player in the group.
Since you'll play with strangers, I suggest using D&D Safety Tools to discuss themes and limits.
So, during COVID lockdowns in the UK I started a few new games with strangers online. My experience actually is that its no different than hosting an in person session at a local game shop. I still to this day run three online games with those groups of former strangers. They are some of the best groups I've come across.
For tech I highly recommend lightweight solutions.
Discord is a great solution, but don't require video. Video is great for a session zero or the social parts of the session. Otherwise try to lean on audio only if possible.
Owlbear is a tremendous browser based virtual tabletop that is able to be used on both mobile and traditional devices. It is a truly amazing system http://owlbear.rodeo
D&D Beyond for character sheets is essential and running encounters there is also going to lighten the load.
Roll20's underlying system is just (imo) fundamentally broken and buggy. It lags awfully and I would avoid it at all costs.
Next up I'd suggest that you have to be willing to lay down strict definitions. When running a group for strangers I do not allow any class or race from outside the Player's Handbook. The reason for this is that it almost immediately weeds out those main character players. It also keeps things a lot more simple. That limitation of choice actually allows you to learn the player styles and personalities. You can open it out as things move on and you get the initial team spirit established. Open out the sub classes and the other race options should the players want to switch up characters.
On that same note, do not be afraid to show players the door. One of the major problems of bad online players is that they treat the game like a video game. They are the main character, they are going to be the hero. That acts as a detriment to the rest of the group. So, if a player isn't gelling with the rest of the team they need to be removed. You can help head some of this off by ensuring that you highlight the basics of how the game works and runs.
I have now taken to accepting those interested based on the character they wish to play. Anything that looks similar to a CR character is rejected immediately (seriously I cannot emphasise how common this type of player is, and how destructive they've been). Otherwise, I'll accept almost anyone who can speak a common language (English or French). However, I run the game as a limited run to begin with. 5-10 session inital run tends to work well. Set firm time limits (we start at 5pm, finish at 9pm). As the initial run comes close to the end, you hold a catch up with each individual. If they are not working out, you explain you'll be writing the character out at the end of the run. If they are working out, you offer that they can join an ongoing campaign should they wish.
This has kind of been a mess, but my experience with strangers has largely been positive. Yes, you have to weed out or invest a lot of time training the selfish, diva, main character players.
If it's of help (and if my players agree) I could invite you to listen in on one of my online games? If you felt comfortable enough I could bring you in as a one-off NPC that way you could get the experience. I'm not saying that my DM style is perfect, but even if it's an example of what you don't want to do you'll have picked up something from it?
Personally, i use Roll20 and Discord and it work relatively well. It's also very affordable being free and benefit from a large fan database to easily find players. I'd recommand it to start online gaming before investing in any virtual table in case it turns out to not be up to your liking.
Personally, i use Roll20 and Discord and it work relatively well. It's also very affordable being free and benefit from a large fan database to easily find players. I'd recommand it to start online gaming before investing in any virtual table in case it turns out to not be up to your liking.
That there tells me you're probably not using Roll20 for the voice/video features. And that right there is the core of Roll20's problems. It's billing itself as an all in one solution. It isn't and it does not work well across all devices and different browsers. The number of issues reported on less powerful phones on their app is quite staggering.
In fact that is why I plugged owlbear.rodeo which is free, does not require a user account, works across every browser I've tried (including mobile). They do have a new version they're working on which is far, far superior, starts off free, but does have a paid tier for the DM (£4 per month) for advanced features, but is currently only in their beta stages.
For finding players, I have found six groups in the last two years, totalling maybe 28 players all right here on D&D beyond. As they are here already and not on another site, they shouldn't have an issue joining a campaign here, plus you've got the content sharing that happens here, the dice rolling ability here, and the encounter building.
I've tried a load of different solutions over the last two years. Hands down, I'd avoid Roll20 like plague it's that poor a solution compared with everything else imo. I do agree with not investing money until you've tried a VTT though.
That is I'll mention the downside of a lot of online play. Theatre of the mind doesn't appear to go as far and players all seem to expect visualisations and battle maps. So a big challenge actually can be to remember to keep up the theatre of the mind stuff in addition to the battle maps and such that players all crave so deeply these days.
Both as player and DM i've run and played in many campaigns and one shots using Roll20 for VT and Discord for VOIP it's more stable that way. I also play on laptop, not phone.
Both as player and DM i've run and played in many campaigns and one shots using Roll20 for VT and Discord for VOIP it's more stable that way. I also play on laptop, not phone.
Not every player uses a laptop or computer though.
I utilise a computer yes, but in one game I have someone from Sweden, Germany, Scottish Highlands, and Cornwall. Some simply have no option but a mobile phone. despite the fact that I have a fairly well spec'd PC. This is why stability matters. It's not just about the DM, it's about the players too. Can they connect well? How is their experience?
Most of the people i've gamed with online don't play on a cellphone, the screen is way too small to handle maps, tokens, sheet, chat, dice rollers and other VT feature with appreciable fun. I recommend tablet at minimum, but bigger is better so laptop or desktop is optimal for most VT experience.
Perhaps I've had an odd career as a DM, but I've never DM'd for complete strangers.
Over the years, all my players have been at least friends, friends-of-friends, or casual acquaintances. Many have been completely new to RPGs, so newbies aren't novel for me - but strangers are.
I've also only ever DM'd in person; I've never run an online game.
But I've begun to think that I need to broaden my scope and get exposure to more players, and more kinds of players.
So, I'm thinking of running a series of one-shots ( one adventure arc, possibly multiple sessions, shake hands, move on ) as "pick up games", using Discord.
I'm still planning on using a lot of the same "set up tools" as I would for a traditional table-top: some form of session 0, even if by email; composing some sort of document describing my style of play; detail any possible house rules I might be using; etc.
But what I'm wondering - for those of you that have run online games and/or games for strangers, if you have noticed any issues particular to running these kinds of games? Any advice or warnings?
Thanks,
My DM Philosophy, as summed up by other people: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rN5w4-azTq3Kbn0Yvk9nfqQhwQ1R5by1/view
Disclaimer: This signature is a badge of membership in the Forum Loudmouth Club. We are all friends. We are not attacking each other. We are engaging in spirited, friendly debate with one another. We may get snarky, but these are not attacks. Thank you for not reporting us.
I've had a little bit of experience with D&D PUGs (pick-up games) online through Roll20 and Discord.
To be frank, for me it was more often a bad experience than a good one. Here are some warnings.
#1 Tech problems. There was always one person who couldn't get their microphone to work, or their internet was running too slow, or their Discord crashed mid-session. I got to a point where anytime I scheduled a game, I'd try to make sure there was additional time allotted for people figuring our their tech.
#2 Personality Clashes. There was usually one person who liked playing contrarily to how everyone wanted to play--an antagonizer and PvP instigator disguised as "I like to roleplay this way." There's also the diva players who want the session to be all about their character and nobody else. The homebrewer that only wants to play using their own imbalanced homebrew class, race, and background.
#3 Game Understanding. This is semi-related to #2, but there was always one or two people who apparently had no interest in following the rules of the game. Like, they'd want to try and take three or four complicated actions every turn, and then complain when they're only allowed one. There are players who have no concept of what meta-gaming is, how to correctly calculate stats, how to use spell slots and prepare spells, etc. etc. With this you have to ask yourself if you're comfortable taking time to teach new players how to play, and how much you're willing to argue about rules with people who think they understand them, but don't.
#4 Language Gaps. When you look for players online you'll actually find a lot of people playing who don't speak English as their native language. If you have an ear for accents this isn't really a problem; however, I've had other players be quite rude toward someone because they couldn't understand their accent.
#5 The nature of one-shots. D&D wasn't particularly fun, for me, to play in one-shot sessions. I think the most rewarding part of the game is seeing the outcomes of long-term progress. You don't get to experience that a lot with PUGs.
Can't really say much. Last time I played online was through IRC. Not sure that even exists today. Also I'm someone who doesn't give a shit about most things. Getting anxious, nervous or something isn't my thing. Just talk to the people on your discord, get to know them a little and off you go. However what will be used besides Discord? Roll20 or FantasyGrounds for the battlemaps and hand-outs and such? I've been looking into that stuff as well to do a DND stream with some online buddies.
With the style of DM you described elsewhere. I always wonder if narrative driven gameplay is even suitable for, relatively short, one shots. Feels to me it is better suited for the typical dungeon delve.
Tech problems is certainly something to take time for. Last few months Discord is a pain and often just doesn't even recognize my microphone. Meaning I need to spend 15-20mins just to get it working. However this is the players responsibility as well. You know at which time to start so get on early to fix your things. Same for real life play sessions. We start at 16:00...so I expect my players to be there before that time and get their things setup and ready to go. If you play with different people each one-shot this is bit more difficult. Even though it should be common practice and sign of respect.
Personality clashes is something you always have. But I can see this being a bigger issue through the internet. A larger pool of players to draw from. Each with their own experiences and playstyles. If you're unlucky you get a bad batch. However a session 0 should make most expectations clear. Also getting some basic agreements out on the table as well to prevent such clashes. If it doesn't work out just remove the player. Did you check the Play-by-Post section and such? There are TONS of players to choose from to find the group that suits your DM-style. While there are barely any DM... Supply and Demand is in our favor. Wanna play? Then it'll be by our rules mwahah ;)
Language gaps could be a thing. But is it really a problem if you play using american continent time zones? If you play in european time zones you got a ton of different languages to deal with.
I appreciate the feedback :)
I hadn't considered anything other than Discord ( or some similar service ), because my group has shifted to non-battlemat combat, but that's not a particularly popular style of combat these days. I will have to give that some thought.
Character creation, and giving copies to the DM, would be easiest for me if that was handled through one of my DnD Beyond campaign slots.
Hand out and documents I can probably hand out with online links and Google Docs - which is where I keep most of my notes anyways.
Plus I have pretty exhaustive Session 0 templates developed for my tabletop sessions - I can pretty specifically lay out what the planned game style will be, and what my approach is like.
In fact, I may try and specifically run a one-shot PUG for novice players.
My DM Philosophy, as summed up by other people: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rN5w4-azTq3Kbn0Yvk9nfqQhwQ1R5by1/view
Disclaimer: This signature is a badge of membership in the Forum Loudmouth Club. We are all friends. We are not attacking each other. We are engaging in spirited, friendly debate with one another. We may get snarky, but these are not attacks. Thank you for not reporting us.
I need people for a new session.
The biggest thing to look for i found is no shows, which you can't do anything for one shots. So you may perhaps include may be 1-2 more players than you anticipate in order to compensate.
For longer campaign, i highly suggest interviews, it help determine seriousness and seize character personalities. Depending where you advertise, you may get a lot of candidate interested and it's worth taking the time to get in touch with potential players before and assemble your group, especially for a campaigns that may last months if not years. And when you loose players along the way, i suggest recruiting in the same fashion before you integrate a new player in the group.
Since you'll play with strangers, I suggest using D&D Safety Tools to discuss themes and limits.
So, during COVID lockdowns in the UK I started a few new games with strangers online. My experience actually is that its no different than hosting an in person session at a local game shop. I still to this day run three online games with those groups of former strangers. They are some of the best groups I've come across.
For tech I highly recommend lightweight solutions.
Roll20's underlying system is just (imo) fundamentally broken and buggy. It lags awfully and I would avoid it at all costs.
Next up I'd suggest that you have to be willing to lay down strict definitions. When running a group for strangers I do not allow any class or race from outside the Player's Handbook. The reason for this is that it almost immediately weeds out those main character players. It also keeps things a lot more simple. That limitation of choice actually allows you to learn the player styles and personalities. You can open it out as things move on and you get the initial team spirit established. Open out the sub classes and the other race options should the players want to switch up characters.
On that same note, do not be afraid to show players the door. One of the major problems of bad online players is that they treat the game like a video game. They are the main character, they are going to be the hero. That acts as a detriment to the rest of the group. So, if a player isn't gelling with the rest of the team they need to be removed. You can help head some of this off by ensuring that you highlight the basics of how the game works and runs.
I have now taken to accepting those interested based on the character they wish to play. Anything that looks similar to a CR character is rejected immediately (seriously I cannot emphasise how common this type of player is, and how destructive they've been). Otherwise, I'll accept almost anyone who can speak a common language (English or French). However, I run the game as a limited run to begin with. 5-10 session inital run tends to work well. Set firm time limits (we start at 5pm, finish at 9pm). As the initial run comes close to the end, you hold a catch up with each individual. If they are not working out, you explain you'll be writing the character out at the end of the run. If they are working out, you offer that they can join an ongoing campaign should they wish.
This has kind of been a mess, but my experience with strangers has largely been positive. Yes, you have to weed out or invest a lot of time training the selfish, diva, main character players.
If it's of help (and if my players agree) I could invite you to listen in on one of my online games? If you felt comfortable enough I could bring you in as a one-off NPC that way you could get the experience. I'm not saying that my DM style is perfect, but even if it's an example of what you don't want to do you'll have picked up something from it?
DM session planning template - My version of maps for 'Lost Mine of Phandelver' - Send your party to The Circus - Other DM Resources - Maps, Tokens, Quests - 'Better' Player Character Injury Tables?
Actor, Writer, Director & Teacher by day - GM/DM in my off hours.
Personally, i use Roll20 and Discord and it work relatively well. It's also very affordable being free and benefit from a large fan database to easily find players. I'd recommand it to start online gaming before investing in any virtual table in case it turns out to not be up to your liking.
That there tells me you're probably not using Roll20 for the voice/video features. And that right there is the core of Roll20's problems. It's billing itself as an all in one solution. It isn't and it does not work well across all devices and different browsers. The number of issues reported on less powerful phones on their app is quite staggering.
In fact that is why I plugged owlbear.rodeo which is free, does not require a user account, works across every browser I've tried (including mobile). They do have a new version they're working on which is far, far superior, starts off free, but does have a paid tier for the DM (£4 per month) for advanced features, but is currently only in their beta stages.
For finding players, I have found six groups in the last two years, totalling maybe 28 players all right here on D&D beyond. As they are here already and not on another site, they shouldn't have an issue joining a campaign here, plus you've got the content sharing that happens here, the dice rolling ability here, and the encounter building.
I've tried a load of different solutions over the last two years. Hands down, I'd avoid Roll20 like plague it's that poor a solution compared with everything else imo. I do agree with not investing money until you've tried a VTT though.
That is I'll mention the downside of a lot of online play. Theatre of the mind doesn't appear to go as far and players all seem to expect visualisations and battle maps. So a big challenge actually can be to remember to keep up the theatre of the mind stuff in addition to the battle maps and such that players all crave so deeply these days.
DM session planning template - My version of maps for 'Lost Mine of Phandelver' - Send your party to The Circus - Other DM Resources - Maps, Tokens, Quests - 'Better' Player Character Injury Tables?
Actor, Writer, Director & Teacher by day - GM/DM in my off hours.
Both as player and DM i've run and played in many campaigns and one shots using Roll20 for VT and Discord for VOIP it's more stable that way. I also play on laptop, not phone.
Not every player uses a laptop or computer though.
I utilise a computer yes, but in one game I have someone from Sweden, Germany, Scottish Highlands, and Cornwall. Some simply have no option but a mobile phone. despite the fact that I have a fairly well spec'd PC. This is why stability matters. It's not just about the DM, it's about the players too. Can they connect well? How is their experience?
DM session planning template - My version of maps for 'Lost Mine of Phandelver' - Send your party to The Circus - Other DM Resources - Maps, Tokens, Quests - 'Better' Player Character Injury Tables?
Actor, Writer, Director & Teacher by day - GM/DM in my off hours.
Most of the people i've gamed with online don't play on a cellphone, the screen is way too small to handle maps, tokens, sheet, chat, dice rollers and other VT feature with appreciable fun. I recommend tablet at minimum, but bigger is better so laptop or desktop is optimal for most VT experience.