Basically, here's the story. A Thieves Guild was hired to try to discredit the party because they were interfering with the plans of the BBEG. The party is a fighter, a wizard and a rogue and they have gained a great deal of fame in the local community. The plot had some success but not enough, so now the BBEG wants them dead. I am going to start with an assassination attempt but the TG has to make it look like it wasn't a professional hit, as they are on another guild's turf and aren't ready for an all out war between 2 guilds just yet.
SO, assuming the assassination fails, I want the party to start tracking down the guild that was hired and (hopefully) kill the guildmaster or do enough damage to the guild that they back off. Any suggestions on how to do so? The players aren't real keen on tons of investigation (the characters are okay with it, just not the players) so I need to mix it up with some combat and hopefully some dungeon crawling. I am fine with them going into murderhobo status, as it will be justified.
Some ideas I had: 1. If they capture one of the assassins, they force some info out of him as to who hired him and where he has been hiding. He won't know the name of the BBEG, but will know a superior's name. They track down that person and hopefully get a name of another, until they get into a fight with several thieves and maybe a wizard or two. 2. One escapes and leads them into a trap. 3. They kill all of the assassins but get some clues as to where they may be hiding or got some of their goods, then track them down. Speak with Dead is not something they will have access to.
A thoguht I had, if Thieves Guild #1 are smart, or at least sly enough about it, they might try to kill two birds with one stone.
The Head of the Thieves Guild sends out one assassin, for purposes of this I'll assume the equivalent of a single level 3 rogue/assassin with expertise in Stealth and Deception. The Head of the guild issues the orders: Kill (name character) and leave a dagger at the scene, if you complete mission meet contact at (insert location) but if caught tell them you work for (name other guild) and if they let you go make your way to (insert a different location) and light a lantern in the window to let us know you are there. The dagger left at the scene has some marking that tie it to the other guild, these marking can be identified by any member fo the town/city watch.
Taking that into account the party might capture and interrogate the assassin which means the assassin will try to decieve them into going after the rival guild. If the assassin is about to successfully escape then a final attack from them is to throw the dagger at one of the party which leaves them the clue.
Following up on the dagger leads them to the local watch who identify the markings which they say belongs to a local gang of thugs that operate out of (insert area). The party can then go into that area all gung ho or sneak about as they see fit. You cna then set up meetings, ambushes etc as needed.
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Poison pills for the "assassins" and all clues found on the dead ones left behind point to the assassins guild?
It's a big gamble (if the assassins guild find out they have been framed they'll likely take retaliatory action on the thieves guild).
Could the TG pay the watch (e.g. a named watch captain the party deal with on this) to "interpret" the clues for the party? That way the watch would bear the brunt of the assassin's ire, should they ever find out. That watch captain could retire and move to another country for his part in this affair shortly after having misled the party...
To avoid the complication with an actual guild, the watch captain could e.g. blame a non existing cult - leading the party into an ambush.
A thoguht I had, if Thieves Guild #1 are smart, or at least sly enough about it, they might try to kill two birds with one stone.
The Head of the Thieves Guild sends out one assassin, for purposes of this I'll assume the equivalent of a single level 3 rogue/assassin with expertise in Stealth and Deception. The Head of the guild issues the orders: Kill (name character) and leave a dagger at the scene, if you complete mission meet contact at (insert location) but if caught tell them you work for (name other guild) and if they let you go make your way to (insert a different location) and light a lantern in the window to let us know you are there. The dagger left at the scene has some marking that tie it to the other guild, these marking can be identified by any member fo the town/city watch.
Taking that into account the party might capture and interrogate the assassin which means the assassin will try to decieve them into going after the rival guild. If the assassin is about to successfully escape then a final attack from them is to throw the dagger at one of the party which leaves them the clue.
Following up on the dagger leads them to the local watch who identify the markings which they say belongs to a local gang of thugs that operate out of (insert area). The party can then go into that area all gung ho or sneak about as they see fit. You cna then set up meetings, ambushes etc as needed.
Got some good ideas but I have sorta done the "2 bird, 1 stone" thing when the intruding TG framed the party by making it look like they stole a family heirloom from the King. I like the idea of leaving something behind.
I think you might have the answers already. The thieve's guild are hired to do a job. They have to be sneaky about it because they don't want to bring trouble on themselves from the other guild. You fully expect the plot to end with the thieve's guild destroyed or badly broken. And your players aren't very interested in investigation.
The last point is probably the most important for planning. DMs always withhold more information from the players than they should. Just because no matter how well you have placed the clues, you are the only one who actually knows the plot. The players will always miss half of the clues. And if they aren't into investigating, they aren't even going to look for them. So you have to bring the plot to them in an entertaining and fulfilling way.
I think this means you just need to make it obvious what is happening. The fun for the party won't be the mystery, or a double cross by a secret agent, or uncovering the identity of the assassins. It will be in getting revenge for the attempt on their lives.
The assassination attempt will be exciting, and get them ready to fight, especially if it happens when they think they are safe. Like sleeping in the inn they always use without a night watch. Or out shopping, when a new merchant offers them a trapped box filled with sleeping gas, as his accomplices surround them disguised as normal townsfolk with hidden daggers. If they capture one, great! He folds under interrogation. If they chase one, great! Let them fight really hard to stay on his trail and reward them with seeing him slip into the alley where his hideout is. If they kill them all, well that's not as fun, but one assassin was sloppy. He has a tattoo they recognize. Or a letter written in thieve's cant. Something your rogue can decipher and feel useful.
Whatever it is, it leads them to the trap in a warehouse by the docks, or wherever is appropriate for the setting. It's okay if they totally suspect it. On the way there, they have a feeling they are being followed. Something they can't shake, but can't find either. They can question the locals for information, or just barge in full of righteous fury. They will have fun casing the area and planning their counter-attack. It's not the guild boss battle anyway. Anything can be a dungeon. Make the warehouse huge, with lots of walkways and rows of crates and rooms that they can approach like a dungeon crawl. After either ambushing them, or getting ambushed themselves, they win the fight. The warehouse has more obvious clues that the person who tried to discredit them earlier is responsible for this attack. There are letters with the guildmaster's mark on them, shipping manifest, more tattoos on the dead. Make enough that they can't help but stumble on them, and easy enough to decipher with their class skills and some easy rolls. The mystery isn't the focus here.
After the fight, they find out what was following them. An agent of the other guild. She introduced herself to them when they are alone, a voice in the shadows. She has noticed some usual activity in the area that doesn't smell good. She saw the attack on them. She's been watching them. Her boss isn't happy with this going on in their territory. It makes them look bad. She wants to know who is behind it as much as the PCs.
From here, it depends on what you as the DM are ready for. If you want to avoid dealing with a whole other guild and a turf war, then this can be their only contact with it. They can tell her as much as they want. She can thank them and give them some token as a friend of the local guild. She can offer them information. She sees everything going on in their territory. She knows the people in this warehouse have a shipment coming the next night. Like clockwork. She can tell them what gate or dock the shipment comes through, and where the men stay. The PCs can try to intercept it and find out where their leader is. If they bring that information to her she'll reward them too.
If you are totally down for making the other guild too, then she could lead them to a meeting spot. The PCs can talk to the guild leader. Make it a suspenseful meeting with a powerful guild leader. One they don't want to mess with. But one that would make a good friend. The PCs can leverage his guild against their assassins. He can offer them help in the form of the information above. And the aid of 'friends' when the time is right
Then the PCs are off to intercept the shipment. Here you can have an awesome fight on a boat at night if you're by the sea. Or let the PCs ambush them on the road in a cool location. Or a battle at the city gate and chase through the streets. The town already likes them. They can use the respect of the guards to excuse the chaos they're about to make. Maybe even get their help. They could even try to infiltrate the crew from the assassins guild.
After defeating them or sneaking in with them, let the PCs learn the truth completely. Through interrogation, a secret map, or monologing lieutenant. They know who sent the assassins and where he is hiding. Now they can go get him themselves. Or try to ruin his operations in the city with all the info they now have. Or go back to the local guild and tell them everything. The local guild leader will be very happy to know who is making trouble on his turf. He can offer help to take them down, and/or a reward for the information.
Then it's off to wherever you want the assassin leader to be hiding. An old mansion, a hidden cave, an island or ship at sea. Whatever fits. Let the PCs plan their revenge. Have the shadowy figure that followed them before show up again if you want. Let them use everything at their disposal. They didn't need a mystery. Sometimes knowing that you are one step ahead of your enemy is just as satisfying.
The fun for the party won't be the mystery, or a double cross by a secret agent, or uncovering the identity of the assassins. It will be in getting revenge for the attempt on their lives.
** This is very true. The party being framed has truly pissed off the characters, to the point I had to soften it a little bit with some of the Royal Guards telling the PCs later that they knew the party was not behind the theft of the heirloom. It has them on edge with the king though, which is great for the plotline.
Whatever it is, it leads them to the trap in a warehouse by the docks, or wherever is appropriate for the setting.
** Wow, exactly where I was going! Did you hack my laptop?
It's okay if they totally suspect it. On the way there, they have a feeling they are being followed. Something they can't shake, but can't find either.
** Great idea - thanks. I already have an NPC that they have met (he is one of the trainers of the rogue in the party and was sent to give them a "you screwed up - don't do that again" message after the party was attacked in front of a building operated by the guild.
Make the warehouse huge, with lots of walkways and rows of crates and rooms that they can approach like a dungeon crawl. After either ambushing them, or getting ambushed themselves, they win the fight. The warehouse has more obvious clues that the person who tried to discredit them earlier is responsible for this attack. There are letters with the guildmaster's mark on them, shipping manifest, more tattoos on the dead.
** Seriously, get out of my laptop! I like the idea of the tattoos.
Make enough that they can't help but stumble on them, and easy enough to decipher with their class skills and some easy rolls. The mystery isn't the focus here.
After the fight, they find out what was following them. An agent of the other guild. She introduced herself to them when they are alone, a voice in the shadows. She has noticed some usual activity in the area that doesn't smell good. She saw the attack on them. She's been watching them. Her boss isn't happy with this going on in their territory. It makes them look bad. She wants to know who is behind it as much as the PCs.
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Basically, here's the story. A Thieves Guild was hired to try to discredit the party because they were interfering with the plans of the BBEG. The party is a fighter, a wizard and a rogue and they have gained a great deal of fame in the local community. The plot had some success but not enough, so now the BBEG wants them dead. I am going to start with an assassination attempt but the TG has to make it look like it wasn't a professional hit, as they are on another guild's turf and aren't ready for an all out war between 2 guilds just yet.
SO, assuming the assassination fails, I want the party to start tracking down the guild that was hired and (hopefully) kill the guildmaster or do enough damage to the guild that they back off. Any suggestions on how to do so? The players aren't real keen on tons of investigation (the characters are okay with it, just not the players) so I need to mix it up with some combat and hopefully some dungeon crawling. I am fine with them going into murderhobo status, as it will be justified.
Some ideas I had:
1. If they capture one of the assassins, they force some info out of him as to who hired him and where he has been hiding. He won't know the name of the BBEG, but will know a superior's name. They track down that person and hopefully get a name of another, until they get into a fight with several thieves and maybe a wizard or two.
2. One escapes and leads them into a trap.
3. They kill all of the assassins but get some clues as to where they may be hiding or got some of their goods, then track them down. Speak with Dead is not something they will have access to.
Any other ideas welcomed!
A thoguht I had, if Thieves Guild #1 are smart, or at least sly enough about it, they might try to kill two birds with one stone.
The Head of the Thieves Guild sends out one assassin, for purposes of this I'll assume the equivalent of a single level 3 rogue/assassin with expertise in Stealth and Deception. The Head of the guild issues the orders: Kill (name character) and leave a dagger at the scene, if you complete mission meet contact at (insert location) but if caught tell them you work for (name other guild) and if they let you go make your way to (insert a different location) and light a lantern in the window to let us know you are there. The dagger left at the scene has some marking that tie it to the other guild, these marking can be identified by any member fo the town/city watch.
Taking that into account the party might capture and interrogate the assassin which means the assassin will try to decieve them into going after the rival guild. If the assassin is about to successfully escape then a final attack from them is to throw the dagger at one of the party which leaves them the clue.
Following up on the dagger leads them to the local watch who identify the markings which they say belongs to a local gang of thugs that operate out of (insert area). The party can then go into that area all gung ho or sneak about as they see fit. You cna then set up meetings, ambushes etc as needed.
Poison pills for the "assassins" and all clues found on the dead ones left behind point to the assassins guild?
It's a big gamble (if the assassins guild find out they have been framed they'll likely take retaliatory action on the thieves guild).
Could the TG pay the watch (e.g. a named watch captain the party deal with on this) to "interpret" the clues for the party? That way the watch would bear the brunt of the assassin's ire, should they ever find out. That watch captain could retire and move to another country for his part in this affair shortly after having misled the party...
To avoid the complication with an actual guild, the watch captain could e.g. blame a non existing cult - leading the party into an ambush.
Got some good ideas but I have sorta done the "2 bird, 1 stone" thing when the intruding TG framed the party by making it look like they stole a family heirloom from the King. I like the idea of leaving something behind.
I think you might have the answers already. The thieve's guild are hired to do a job. They have to be sneaky about it because they don't want to bring trouble on themselves from the other guild. You fully expect the plot to end with the thieve's guild destroyed or badly broken. And your players aren't very interested in investigation.
The last point is probably the most important for planning. DMs always withhold more information from the players than they should. Just because no matter how well you have placed the clues, you are the only one who actually knows the plot. The players will always miss half of the clues. And if they aren't into investigating, they aren't even going to look for them. So you have to bring the plot to them in an entertaining and fulfilling way.
I think this means you just need to make it obvious what is happening. The fun for the party won't be the mystery, or a double cross by a secret agent, or uncovering the identity of the assassins. It will be in getting revenge for the attempt on their lives.
The assassination attempt will be exciting, and get them ready to fight, especially if it happens when they think they are safe. Like sleeping in the inn they always use without a night watch. Or out shopping, when a new merchant offers them a trapped box filled with sleeping gas, as his accomplices surround them disguised as normal townsfolk with hidden daggers. If they capture one, great! He folds under interrogation. If they chase one, great! Let them fight really hard to stay on his trail and reward them with seeing him slip into the alley where his hideout is. If they kill them all, well that's not as fun, but one assassin was sloppy. He has a tattoo they recognize. Or a letter written in thieve's cant. Something your rogue can decipher and feel useful.
Whatever it is, it leads them to the trap in a warehouse by the docks, or wherever is appropriate for the setting. It's okay if they totally suspect it. On the way there, they have a feeling they are being followed. Something they can't shake, but can't find either. They can question the locals for information, or just barge in full of righteous fury. They will have fun casing the area and planning their counter-attack. It's not the guild boss battle anyway. Anything can be a dungeon. Make the warehouse huge, with lots of walkways and rows of crates and rooms that they can approach like a dungeon crawl. After either ambushing them, or getting ambushed themselves, they win the fight. The warehouse has more obvious clues that the person who tried to discredit them earlier is responsible for this attack. There are letters with the guildmaster's mark on them, shipping manifest, more tattoos on the dead. Make enough that they can't help but stumble on them, and easy enough to decipher with their class skills and some easy rolls. The mystery isn't the focus here.
After the fight, they find out what was following them. An agent of the other guild. She introduced herself to them when they are alone, a voice in the shadows. She has noticed some usual activity in the area that doesn't smell good. She saw the attack on them. She's been watching them. Her boss isn't happy with this going on in their territory. It makes them look bad. She wants to know who is behind it as much as the PCs.
From here, it depends on what you as the DM are ready for. If you want to avoid dealing with a whole other guild and a turf war, then this can be their only contact with it. They can tell her as much as they want. She can thank them and give them some token as a friend of the local guild. She can offer them information. She sees everything going on in their territory. She knows the people in this warehouse have a shipment coming the next night. Like clockwork. She can tell them what gate or dock the shipment comes through, and where the men stay. The PCs can try to intercept it and find out where their leader is. If they bring that information to her she'll reward them too.
If you are totally down for making the other guild too, then she could lead them to a meeting spot. The PCs can talk to the guild leader. Make it a suspenseful meeting with a powerful guild leader. One they don't want to mess with. But one that would make a good friend. The PCs can leverage his guild against their assassins. He can offer them help in the form of the information above. And the aid of 'friends' when the time is right
Then the PCs are off to intercept the shipment. Here you can have an awesome fight on a boat at night if you're by the sea. Or let the PCs ambush them on the road in a cool location. Or a battle at the city gate and chase through the streets. The town already likes them. They can use the respect of the guards to excuse the chaos they're about to make. Maybe even get their help. They could even try to infiltrate the crew from the assassins guild.
After defeating them or sneaking in with them, let the PCs learn the truth completely. Through interrogation, a secret map, or monologing lieutenant. They know who sent the assassins and where he is hiding. Now they can go get him themselves. Or try to ruin his operations in the city with all the info they now have. Or go back to the local guild and tell them everything. The local guild leader will be very happy to know who is making trouble on his turf. He can offer help to take them down, and/or a reward for the information.
Then it's off to wherever you want the assassin leader to be hiding. An old mansion, a hidden cave, an island or ship at sea. Whatever fits. Let the PCs plan their revenge. Have the shadowy figure that followed them before show up again if you want. Let them use everything at their disposal. They didn't need a mystery. Sometimes knowing that you are one step ahead of your enemy is just as satisfying.