I have a very mature and consistent payer. His 1st character died 6 months ago due to a crit fail death save after one standard fail. He started a new character and rejoined the group.
He says he has really tried but cannot find any enjoyment in the new character / class and wants a shot to reroll into someone new. They are level 5 in OOTA. What would you do?
If a player is not happy with the character they have, I would probably find a plausible way to make the current character leave the party (not necessarily the death of said character) and allow the player to roll a new one.
It could even be that the "old" character introduces the "new" one before leaving the party.
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Born in Italy, moved a bunch, living in Spain, my heart always belonged to Roleplaying Games
I agree with LeK here, if the character isn't happy with what they have then there is no point in making the player have that character. Finding a way for the character to leave the party is a good option. The death option would be more dramatic for sure and I think could work depending on how the player wants to do it. Maybe he dislikes his character so much that he wants to have him killed off.
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It's more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules
Indeed, as Nobleauger suggests, if the player is really at odds with the current character and doesn't want to have anything to do ever again with it, by all means kill it off if he agrees.
Alternatively if death is not the desired outcome, the current character could become a sort of recurrent NPC, a sort of friendly face they shared adventures with for a bit that comes back from time to time to give them a hand or some useful information. Taking a little side-track, he could be revealed he's a member of some organisation that needs him back, but knowing he's been traveling with the rest of the party doing (supposedly) good around, they send someone to take his place. This could give a perfectly good explanation for the swap, and option to have the "retired" character make some appearances here and there.
There are myriads of good reasons for a character to "retire". Death of a family member, urgent news from home, summons from a figure with authority or power, etc. Once the character is out of the party, you can work with the player to decide what happens. However, I generally suggest letting players switch characters (if, of course, there's a solid reason in universe; no switching out characters while besieged on a hilltop miles from civilization) to prevent players from getting bored with the campaign and leaving or alternatively becoming disruptive. Again, the purpose of D&D is to tell compelling and entertaining stories, and stale, boring characters that players aren't interesting in playing doesn't help. Before switching, however, do check why the player wants to change.
Too strong/weak, party composition balance issues? Suggest a class that might perform more in line with the rest of the party or play a more helpful role in the team dynamics.
Only useful in/out of combat? Suggest a build that is more balanced between both combat and role-play.
Repetitive gameplay style? Try mixing it up with a half-caster or a skill build.
Backstory/character interactions? Easy to fix, just write a character that has a different backstory and personality traits.
I once switched from a druid for a couple reasons (too combat centered, too powerful for the party of mostly newbies, other player interactions were problematic because of toxic metagaming by a particular player with no separation between table and character knowledge because in his head canon his character was a demigod and he sure did play like it, even ignoring rules to make his character more powerful and central to the story) and after the change things were great. I eventually regretted switching, however, and in retrospect the better solution would have been to deal with the metagaming and change my playstyle some, not change characters entirely. It's important to know why your player wants to switch. If it's just the character isn't working, then that's fine (or a new book coming out, which is my weakness). But if its party dynamics or a flavor of the week thing going on, the problem might not be with the character. That doesn't sound like the situation you described though.
Don't kill off the old character. Let him make a new one and dismiss the old character gracefully. You now have access to a wonderful NPC with roots in your campaign who may show up at some point in the future in any of a number of ways.
Don't kill off the old character. Let him make a new one and dismiss the old character gracefully. You now have access to a wonderful NPC with roots in your campaign who may show up at some point in the future in any of a number of ways.
While I agree with you, on the death or not ultimately the choice has to be the player's.
It could be extremely frustrating for the player, for example, to see a character he thought was not fun/useful pop up again and be actually useful. It's an edge case, but still a possibility, so it's best to make sure the player is fine with the NPC idea.
I would let the player reroll a new character, and let him decide what happens to the old one. Maybe let him retire, as the life of a adventurer is full of danger and must take a toll of the mind of any character, ptsd. Maybe let him hold off a group of drow, and die a heroic death saving the party, by buying them time to escape.
As far as introducing his new character I might have them come across him as maybe the last member of some underdark traders. He would have some much needed supplies, makeing him a certain hit with the party , and he needs the party, because being alone in the underdark, eapcialy with lords of the abyss running around is a death sentence.
If they're not having fun, definitely work with them on a new character. I'd lean against killing the PC off, just in case... but if it would serve your narrative and the player is okay with it, then do what makes the most sense for your game!
Definitely this; it's the player's character, they should be the author of its conclusion. If the player asks you for ideas, then by all means give them options, but, ultimately, I think it should be their choice.
We ended up having him go to grab an arcane object and . . . crackle of purple/green lightning . . . poof - he and the object disappear with only a small puff of smoke, some residual sparkling and a smell of ozone. I hand the player a piece of paper to obstensibly explain what happened to him. His compatriots (not in on it) are worried and begin searching for him. A few rooms later the party comes across a room with cages, in one is a half-orc. When they begin to question him, the player answers. The party rescues him, he joins up. Deed done.
We ended up having him go to grab an arcane object and . . . crackle of purple/green lightning . . . poof - he and the object disappear with only a small puff of smoke, some residual sparkling and a smell of ozone. I hand the player a piece of paper to obstensibly explain what happened to him. His compatriots (not in on it) are worried and begin searching for him. A few rooms later the party comes across a room with cages, in one is a half-orc. When they begin to question him, the player answers. The party rescues him, he joins up. Deed done.
Sounds like you found a solid way to work it out then Thonwil nicely done!
In the original rules you are not allowed to exit game and not kill of character. You must kill off the character, and then re roll a new one. There is no other way according to the rules. If you are a true D&D player you will honor the rules. Suck it up and honor the code.
In the original rules you are not allowed to exit game and not kill of character. You must kill off the character, and then re roll a new one. There is no other way according to the rules. If you are a true D&D player you will honor the rules. Suck it up and honor the code.
Funny I don't see this anywhere in the Player's Handbook or Dungeon Master's Guide for either 3.5 Edition, 4th Edition or 5th Edition. Can you advise me on which page these are stated? I've checked the Adventurer's League FAQ and rules and these "original rules" you speak of aren't there, am I missing them?
True D&D players know that D&D is about creating fun and creating the story together in the way you all want. If you prefer not to kill off the character - don't. Perhaps you like to switch them again later, or maybe play both for a while - whatever works for you, the group and DM. That's the true spirit of D&D and is how the people who design and create for D&D play their games. So I would posit you are trolling out of some weird humour I don't share or are completely misguided on what you think a "true" D&D Player is.
Moving on...
I've changed characters a few times in the two campaigns I am in - the DM is fine with this, he prefers us to be happy because he's a good DM and it is easy to accommodate. Most players of both campaigns have changed characters at some point, we're all okie doke with it. The DM lets us choose how we deal with the exit of the character and emergence of the new one.
In one campaign I started with a shadow sorcerer but I hated the subclass and decided to be dramatic and in a scene where the group had to leave one ship and get onto this sort of giant sea serpent while we were being attacked with whirlpool-like giant anomalous demons (it's a weird campaign, they both are) my character fell into the water and drowned. Later they encountered my new character, a wizard. Eventually, several sessions later, I had revised the shadow subclass and wanted to test it. So, I had my character leave to attend family matters of high importance (he was a noble) and brought back my sorcerer. My sorcerer's backstory involved a connection with death and his powers came from the Shadowplane - a plane of shadow and death. I wrote it that on death he instead went to the shadowplane and this event caused his powers to change (reflecting the new subclass and spell selections). He was able to return because whoever was behind these anomalies/demons was tapping into the shadowplane and this was causing small tears in the fabric of reality separating them - one eventually opened up that was big enough for him to go through, intending to rejoin his friends and stop the evil causing these tears.
In another campaign I've changed multiple times. The campaign is basically split in "part one" and "part 2". This was because originally, Part 1, ended with a mutually agreed upon TPK. We all wanted to try new characters and some players were leaving for offline life commitments (we play on Roll20). So there was a TPK and we began Part 2 with new characters and couple of new players. I made a character that was a Tabaxi (animal person) with a weird speech pattern, he was a Two-Weapon Fighting Ranger specialising in hunting Fiends. Another player also made a Kenku (animal person with a weird speech pattern), who was a Two-Weapon Fighting Ranger specialising in hunting fiends. This was pure coincidence and while we laughed about it, I felt having two characters be almost identical was a bit much, so I decided to make a new character. My Tabaxi Ranger just decided to bring in his friend and leave to chase a story - he was like that. He was an odd one. The friend was a Firbolg Druid. First time playing a druid. I had wanted to try monk but another player had a monk character and I wanted us to be different and unique. It was good but when that player with a monk switched - his character leaving and he created a bard I felt that we were too heavy on the spellsplinging side of things so I had my druid exit. Basically an old friend with a teleporting hat popped in, asked for help, and bamfed out with my druid in tow. In the manor they were investigating the group came across my new character a Tabaxi Shadow Monk.
In the second campaign we also realised a benefit to not killing the characters when we switch: if a player needs to skip a session at an important time when the whole group is needed, we can instead make a mini-oneshot featuring the "previous" unkilled characters who just so happened to meet up and find an adventure - effectively the group has a backup Team B. Not actually had to do this yet but it is nice having that option.
We've found that switching to be easy and seamless with no reason to have to kill off a character - in fact there are benefits of keeping them alive somewhere else.
However, I would take issue with them being used as NPCs without permission. My characters are mine and it me who decides who can and cannot "use" them. Thankfully I have a DM who agrees and will discuss with me any plans they have if they feel like having the character come back as a NPC and we can see what can be arranged. I don't object to a character being used as an NPC - just as long as it has been discussed and agreed with me first. After all, I don't go taking control of his NPCs now do I?
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond. Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ thisFAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
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I have a very mature and consistent payer. His 1st character died 6 months ago due to a crit fail death save after one standard fail. He started a new character and rejoined the group.
He says he has really tried but cannot find any enjoyment in the new character / class and wants a shot to reroll into someone new. They are level 5 in OOTA. What would you do?
If a player is not happy with the character they have, I would probably find a plausible way to make the current character leave the party (not necessarily the death of said character) and allow the player to roll a new one.
It could even be that the "old" character introduces the "new" one before leaving the party.
Born in Italy, moved a bunch, living in Spain, my heart always belonged to Roleplaying Games
For sure let him! The options are limitless for the swap...
I agree with LeK here, if the character isn't happy with what they have then there is no point in making the player have that character. Finding a way for the character to leave the party is a good option. The death option would be more dramatic for sure and I think could work depending on how the player wants to do it. Maybe he dislikes his character so much that he wants to have him killed off.
It's more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules
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Ardanian Calendar
Indeed, as Nobleauger suggests, if the player is really at odds with the current character and doesn't want to have anything to do ever again with it, by all means kill it off if he agrees.
Alternatively if death is not the desired outcome, the current character could become a sort of recurrent NPC, a sort of friendly face they shared adventures with for a bit that comes back from time to time to give them a hand or some useful information. Taking a little side-track, he could be revealed he's a member of some organisation that needs him back, but knowing he's been traveling with the rest of the party doing (supposedly) good around, they send someone to take his place. This could give a perfectly good explanation for the swap, and option to have the "retired" character make some appearances here and there.
Born in Italy, moved a bunch, living in Spain, my heart always belonged to Roleplaying Games
There are myriads of good reasons for a character to "retire". Death of a family member, urgent news from home, summons from a figure with authority or power, etc. Once the character is out of the party, you can work with the player to decide what happens. However, I generally suggest letting players switch characters (if, of course, there's a solid reason in universe; no switching out characters while besieged on a hilltop miles from civilization) to prevent players from getting bored with the campaign and leaving or alternatively becoming disruptive. Again, the purpose of D&D is to tell compelling and entertaining stories, and stale, boring characters that players aren't interesting in playing doesn't help. Before switching, however, do check why the player wants to change.
Too strong/weak, party composition balance issues? Suggest a class that might perform more in line with the rest of the party or play a more helpful role in the team dynamics.
Only useful in/out of combat? Suggest a build that is more balanced between both combat and role-play.
Repetitive gameplay style? Try mixing it up with a half-caster or a skill build.
Backstory/character interactions? Easy to fix, just write a character that has a different backstory and personality traits.
I once switched from a druid for a couple reasons (too combat centered, too powerful for the party of mostly newbies, other player interactions were problematic because of toxic metagaming by a particular player with no separation between table and character knowledge because in his head canon his character was a demigod and he sure did play like it, even ignoring rules to make his character more powerful and central to the story) and after the change things were great. I eventually regretted switching, however, and in retrospect the better solution would have been to deal with the metagaming and change my playstyle some, not change characters entirely. It's important to know why your player wants to switch. If it's just the character isn't working, then that's fine (or a new book coming out, which is my weakness). But if its party dynamics or a flavor of the week thing going on, the problem might not be with the character. That doesn't sound like the situation you described though.
Don't kill off the old character. Let him make a new one and dismiss the old character gracefully. You now have access to a wonderful NPC with roots in your campaign who may show up at some point in the future in any of a number of ways.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
Born in Italy, moved a bunch, living in Spain, my heart always belonged to Roleplaying Games
We're just going to have to disagree on that one.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
I would let the player reroll a new character, and let him decide what happens to the old one. Maybe let him retire, as the life of a adventurer is full of danger and must take a toll of the mind of any character, ptsd. Maybe let him hold off a group of drow, and die a heroic death saving the party, by buying them time to escape.
As far as introducing his new character I might have them come across him as maybe the last member of some underdark traders. He would have some much needed supplies, makeing him a certain hit with the party , and he needs the party, because being alone in the underdark, eapcialy with lords of the abyss running around is a death sentence.
If they're not having fun, definitely work with them on a new character. I'd lean against killing the PC off, just in case... but if it would serve your narrative and the player is okay with it, then do what makes the most sense for your game!
Definitely this; it's the player's character, they should be the author of its conclusion. If the player asks you for ideas, then by all means give them options, but, ultimately, I think it should be their choice.
Before a character swap, I would dig deeper and see why he doesn’t like it. You could find some interesting insights.
We ended up having him go to grab an arcane object and . . . crackle of purple/green lightning . . . poof - he and the object disappear with only a small puff of smoke, some residual sparkling and a smell of ozone. I hand the player a piece of paper to obstensibly explain what happened to him. His compatriots (not in on it) are worried and begin searching for him. A few rooms later the party comes across a room with cages, in one is a half-orc. When they begin to question him, the player answers. The party rescues him, he joins up. Deed done.
In the original rules you are not allowed to exit game and not kill of character. You must kill off the character, and then re roll a new one. There is no other way according to the rules. If you are a true D&D player you will honor the rules. Suck it up and honor the code.
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond.
Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ this FAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.