I’m about to run this as a DM as my first official module and I’m reading through the First Chapter, ‘Goblin Arrows’. Now, I know my players and I know how they play and react, which leads me to the following concerns/questions:
I ran my own small Homebrew adventure before LMOP to get us all used to 5E (for me) and D&D (for them), and I played up Gundren Rockseeker as being their friend/Patron, so they would have ‘real’ motivation for finding/rescuing him in Chapter 1 of LMOP. My concern is now that, as soon as they find out from the goblins in the Cragmaw hideout that Gundren has been taken to Cragmaw Castle, they’re going to head right for the Castle. Even if I get Sildar to convince them to escort him to Phandalin, they’re not going to want to hang around the town if they think Gundren is in danger. The module wants them to do lots of interlinked side quests before they even consider (or get an exact Castle location) heading to Cragmaw Castle. They’re not going to want to float around Phandalin doing low-key side quests when they think their friend is in danger, and I can’t think of a good or logical in-world reason to give them that would stop them tearing off after their friend. Anyone have any suggestions?
The route that the module seems to want players to take through the Cragmaw hideout (based on map location numbers is) 1, 2, 3, under 5, up to 7, then my players would probably naturally head for 8 (if they haven’t attempted to get there via 3), and then are likely to tear back the way they came looking for Gundren. I would have thought the logical route would be, 1, 2, 3, 4 up to 6 and rescue Sildar, along to and across 5, into 7 and then 8? Am I missing something about the layout? I want my players to explore organically, but at the same time I feel that I will need to push and prompt them around the logical route, which doesn’t feel natural to me.
If anyone who has ran LMOP would be kind enough to share their thoughts/suggestions, that would be really great, thanks.
Searching for information about a location is a common trope of this genre. The characters know GUndren has been taken to some place called "Cragmaw Castle" but they don't know where it is. Who would know? That leads to some adventures around town as they struggle to find the location quickly, knowing that the more time they spend, the longer Gundren is imprisoned.
In other words, the logical in-world reason is, "they don't know where Cragmaw Castle is."
The goblins in Cragmaw Hideout might know, but there is absolutely no way they are going to tell the PCs, even if the PCs leave any of them alive to question. Those goblins might also not know. Perhaps they split off from the main group before the main group found the castle?
Of course, your players might not care. Mine didn't. :-( They failed to rescue all three Rockseeker brothers.
The goblins are just squatting in some ruins and call it cragmaw castle, so where this place is isn't known. You go to town and start to find info on where the castle is.
Searching for information about a location is a common trope of this genre. The characters know GUndren has been taken to some place called "Cragmaw Castle" but they don't know where it is. Who would know? That leads to some adventures around town as they struggle to find the location quickly, knowing that the more time they spend, the longer Gundren is imprisoned.
In other words, the logical in-world reason is, "they don't know where Cragmaw Castle is."
The goblins in Cragmaw Hideout might know, but there is absolutely no way they are going to tell the PCs, even if the PCs leave any of them alive to question. Those goblins might also not know. Perhaps they split off from the main group before the main group found the castle?
Of course, your players might not care. Mine didn't. :-( They failed to rescue all three Rockseeker brothers.
The goblins are just squatting in some ruins and call it cragmaw castle, so where this place is isn't known. You go to town and start to find info on where the castle is.
Problem is that it says in the module in the “What the goblins know” pop out that any captured goblin knows the location of Cragmaw Castle, and will tell the player that it’s “23 miles northeast of the hideout (current location)”. However, I could omit that, which then solves the problem.
I just want a realistic way of getting the players to do some of the Phandalin quests (per the module) without wanting to run off urgently for Cragmaw Castle. I might have a captured goblin explain, or a found letter to Klarg from the Black Spider, to the effect that “the dwarf is not to be harmed or there will be trouble… he is a guest..”, which might defuse the issue for the players. Still sounds a bit weird that their friend has been kidnapped, and they’re bouncing around town doing low-key quests for strangers.
Does that sound reasonable?
I’m still having issues with the route the module clearly wants players to take through the hideout - it risks players either missing out rescuing Sildar completely, or finding and killing Klarg before they’ve spoken to Keemik, which just seems silly.
Klarg, the bugbear who leads this goblin band, had orders to waylay Gundren. Sildar heard from the goblins that the Black Spider sent word that the dwarf was to be brought to him. Sildar doesn’t know who or what the Black Spider is. (use this to get them into finding the black spider in phandalin once they hear he's leading the redbrands)
Sildar believes that Klarg sent the map and the dwarf to the chief of the Cragmaws at a place called Cragmaw Castle. Sildar doesn’t know where that might be, but he suggests someone in Phandalin might know.
It also says the goblins just say very general directions, which probably is meant to imply that it wouldn't be enough to find a lost ruin in a huge forest.
If you want just have the goblins not tell info that allows the party to skip half the story. They are called "Cragmaw clan" because they sharpen their teeth to points, just have them bite through their own tongue and bleed out before they narc.
Klarg, the bugbear who leads this goblin band, had orders to waylay Gundren. Sildar heard from the goblins that the Black Spider sent word that the dwarf was to be brought to him. Sildar doesn’t know who or what the Black Spider is. (use this to get them into finding the black spider in phandalin once they hear he's leading the redbrands)
Sildar believes that Klarg sent the map and the dwarf to the chief of the Cragmaws at a place called Cragmaw Castle. Sildar doesn’t know where that might be, but he suggests someone in Phandalin might know.
It also says the goblins just say very general directions, which probably is meant to imply that it wouldn't be enough to find a lost ruin in a huge forest.
If you want just have the goblins not tell info that allows the party to skip half the story. They are called "Cragmaw clan" because they sharpen their teeth to points, just have them bite through their own tongue and bleed out before they narc.
Yeah, I’m thinking of the goblins who are captured only having the vaguest of notions of the location in respect of where they are now. Might say that they were brought down to the hideout in a covered wagon, or something, so they’re not sure of the directions - if pressed.
Problem is that it says in the module in the “What the goblins know” pop out that any captured goblin knows the location of Cragmaw Castle, and will tell the player that it’s “23 miles northeast of the hideout (current location)”. However, I could omit that, which then solves the problem.
The goblins probably don't know about miles, and definitely wouldn't know how far away it was.
The best they could probably say is, "a long way in that direction, up in the hills" (or whatever terrain the hideout is in.
The goblins don't know exactly where the castle is.
It is described as "The goblins can provide basic directions to Cragmaw Castle. It’s about twenty miles northeast of the Cragmaw hideout, in Neverwinter Wood."
This could be anything from 15 to 25 miles. It doesn't say if that is a straight line distance or the distance covered by walking along twisting and turning trails. Northeast can also encompass anything from North North East to East North East. Considering the castle is hidden in the woods and the party doesn't have anything more than the most basic directions, they could wander off that way and spend a month searching and not find it, especially if it is hidden in the woods somewhere.
Finally, Sildar can easily let them know that the Neverwinter Wood is very dangerous and that the castle of the goblins is likely to be heavily defended. In both these cases, Sildar might suggest to the party that they try to get more information in Phandalin regarding where the castle can be found and perhaps spend a bit more time working on their skills so that they might be better prepared to deal with the threats they might find in the forest.
The players can still decide to wander the woods if they like but then they have to face the dangers and the fact that they have no idea where they are looking. Wandering through a forest where you can only see 100' in any direction, may make it very difficult or time consuming to find the castle - it might be faster to find someone who actually knows where it is.
Anyway, lots of ways for the DM to deal with it even if the players decide to go looking for the castle .. whether they find it and whatever else they encounter is up to the DM.
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I’m about to run this as a DM as my first official module and I’m reading through the First Chapter, ‘Goblin Arrows’. Now, I know my players and I know how they play and react, which leads me to the following concerns/questions:
If anyone who has ran LMOP would be kind enough to share their thoughts/suggestions, that would be really great, thanks.
Searching for information about a location is a common trope of this genre. The characters know GUndren has been taken to some place called "Cragmaw Castle" but they don't know where it is. Who would know? That leads to some adventures around town as they struggle to find the location quickly, knowing that the more time they spend, the longer Gundren is imprisoned.
In other words, the logical in-world reason is, "they don't know where Cragmaw Castle is."
The goblins in Cragmaw Hideout might know, but there is absolutely no way they are going to tell the PCs, even if the PCs leave any of them alive to question. Those goblins might also not know. Perhaps they split off from the main group before the main group found the castle?
Of course, your players might not care. Mine didn't. :-( They failed to rescue all three Rockseeker brothers.
They don't know the location Cragmaw Castle
The goblins are just squatting in some ruins and call it cragmaw castle, so where this place is isn't known.
You go to town and start to find info on where the castle is.
Problem is that it says in the module in the “What the goblins know” pop out that any captured goblin knows the location of Cragmaw Castle, and will tell the player that it’s “23 miles northeast of the hideout (current location)”. However, I could omit that, which then solves the problem.
I just want a realistic way of getting the players to do some of the Phandalin quests (per the module) without wanting to run off urgently for Cragmaw Castle. I might have a captured goblin explain, or a found letter to Klarg from the Black Spider, to the effect that “the dwarf is not to be harmed or there will be trouble… he is a guest..”, which might defuse the issue for the players. Still sounds a bit weird that their friend has been kidnapped, and they’re bouncing around town doing low-key quests for strangers.
Does that sound reasonable?
I’m still having issues with the route the module clearly wants players to take through the hideout - it risks players either missing out rescuing Sildar completely, or finding and killing Klarg before they’ve spoken to Keemik, which just seems silly.
Klarg, the bugbear who leads this goblin band, had orders to waylay Gundren. Sildar heard from the goblins that the Black Spider sent word that the dwarf was to be brought to him. Sildar doesn’t know who or what the Black Spider is. (use this to get them into finding the black spider in phandalin once they hear he's leading the redbrands)
Sildar believes that Klarg sent the map and the dwarf to the chief of the Cragmaws at a place called Cragmaw Castle. Sildar doesn’t know where that might be, but he suggests someone in Phandalin might know.
It also says the goblins just say very general directions, which probably is meant to imply that it wouldn't be enough to find a lost ruin in a huge forest.
If you want just have the goblins not tell info that allows the party to skip half the story. They are called "Cragmaw clan" because they sharpen their teeth to points, just have them bite through their own tongue and bleed out before they narc.
Yeah, I’m thinking of the goblins who are captured only having the vaguest of notions of the location in respect of where they are now. Might say that they were brought down to the hideout in a covered wagon, or something, so they’re not sure of the directions - if pressed.
The goblins probably don't know about miles, and definitely wouldn't know how far away it was.
The best they could probably say is, "a long way in that direction, up in the hills" (or whatever terrain the hideout is in.
The goblins don't know exactly where the castle is.
It is described as "The goblins can provide basic directions to Cragmaw Castle. It’s about twenty miles northeast of the Cragmaw hideout, in Neverwinter Wood."
This could be anything from 15 to 25 miles. It doesn't say if that is a straight line distance or the distance covered by walking along twisting and turning trails. Northeast can also encompass anything from North North East to East North East. Considering the castle is hidden in the woods and the party doesn't have anything more than the most basic directions, they could wander off that way and spend a month searching and not find it, especially if it is hidden in the woods somewhere.
Finally, Sildar can easily let them know that the Neverwinter Wood is very dangerous and that the castle of the goblins is likely to be heavily defended. In both these cases, Sildar might suggest to the party that they try to get more information in Phandalin regarding where the castle can be found and perhaps spend a bit more time working on their skills so that they might be better prepared to deal with the threats they might find in the forest.
The players can still decide to wander the woods if they like but then they have to face the dangers and the fact that they have no idea where they are looking. Wandering through a forest where you can only see 100' in any direction, may make it very difficult or time consuming to find the castle - it might be faster to find someone who actually knows where it is.
Anyway, lots of ways for the DM to deal with it even if the players decide to go looking for the castle .. whether they find it and whatever else they encounter is up to the DM.