Please ignore this thread, I confused myself and got flustered and screwed up even the questions in looking for an answer to a question I hadn’t properly formulated (see the confusion). Please instead go to the thread I’m linking below as it puts things more clearly and thoughtfully. Thank you and sorry to everyone here that responded.
I wouldn't go with the "you actually died" start unless the campaign you pitched to the players was one that takes place (or at least starts) in the afterlife. Especially telling the players they turned evil and don't remember it, again, unless "starting with amnesia and figuring out the mystery of who you are" was part of what you pitched to your players.
Otherwise, players could very easily feel like the choices they made when creating their character don't matter and the character they ended up with might be very different from the one they wanted.
Instead, I'd work with your players and ask them each; "why might your character be in a magical prison?" before you begin the campaign, so everyone knows that that's something they should account for in their backstory.
Well now, I’m not actually sure that’s true. One of the most critically acclaimed D&D video games was Torment: Planescape which featured a protagonist who was just waking up from his most recent incarnation for the reason to fix something he wasn’t aware of initially. So that covers half of it. The other half includes any number of games where the player is kidnapped or (Skyrim) features them riding in a cart to face their own execution for unknown crimes. The simple truth is that while players determine their backstories, the DM’s control what happens afterward. And as we’ve seen with Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic, that can lead to an amazing revelation that excites and changes the entire perception of the game. The need to pitch it to the players robs them of the mystery.
The difference here is that I’m cobbling together those three ideas into one and making up the story it leads to on my own. The backstory still matters because the players have to determine if those occurred X number of years ago, was implanted recently (Neogi), or if something else is going on.
Edit: It’s also fair to ask how much if any of those three questions and answers would be needed in the 1st to 3rd level part of the adventure to keep them engaged. I would be able to confirm their memories were real, but what other hints can I or should I offer up?
I’d be ok with the hijacked soul thing. My hiccup would be that I had to be villainous. Maybe I was rescuing orphans from a burning building, or I just died peacefully in my sleep. Let villainous be an option, but not the only option. Let the players figure out how they died. Could open up some interesting possibilities. And, if the portal is opening to a place they don’t know, I’d let them know that so they don’t go choosing a background that won’t come up.
As far as the backgrounds go, the skill and subtle benefit would still work.
Right. But if it’s something like, you know people in this group, but the group doesn’t exist in this new place, it can be annoying. I guess they could travel and it could become relevant, just something to watch for.
As far as the backgrounds go, the skill and subtle benefit would still work.
Right. But if it’s something like, you know people in this group, but the group doesn’t exist in this new place, it can be annoying. I guess they could travel and it could become relevant, just something to watch for.
No, for sure, it’s a good point to look out for. I’m also trying to figure out where in the world / planescape I’d want these villainous versions to be from. There’s really only two and a half (large archipelago) land masses in my world, though obviously it’s somewhat broken up (Frostweald, Elven Kingdom(s), Desert Empire and it’s vassal states (one being the ruined empire of the Tieflings) etc.).
You’re citing three video games as a framework for how you want to play a TTRPG. Even in video games where you makes choices that determine which of the different endings you get, the player is not role playing as their character nor are they writing or really contributing to the story; they are simply discovering a pre-existing tale authored by the game creator. This is not the same as a TTRPG, which is a collaborative storytelling effort where the DM controls everything except the player characters and the player control nothing but their characters. I think it is a mistake as a DM to have your players discover a character background you have determined for them. Your initial thought that the players might feel that you stepped all over their backgrounds and how they imagined their character is spot on. They would have good reason.
@Xalthu The problem there is that it would reveal too much of the World and Cosmology which I would not want to share with them, especially that early. At the end of things, I want a good part of the Adventure to include Exploration. Also, I like to think that finding out what their past selves got up to would be part of the fun.
@Born_of_fire74 I think I’ve moved to the point where I really like the intro (in general) as I’ve described it. I don’t disagree that making all the PC’s past selves be villains could be too much, so I might have one character be either a hero or a logical neutral sort. So, fine tuning to be done, and I still care about opinions, but just saying the whole thing doesn’t work no longer interests me. It’s not a bad idea, though, to ask the PC’s what their interests and eventual goals are so I can wrap that up into the narrative.
Please ignore this thread, I confused myself and got flustered and screwed up even the questions in looking for an answer to a question I hadn’t properly formulated (see the confusion). Please instead go to the thread I’m linking below as it puts things more clearly and thoughtfully.
Well now, I’m not actually sure that’s true. One of the most critically acclaimed D&D video games was Torment: Planescape which featured a protagonist who was just waking up from his most recent incarnation for the reason to fix something he wasn’t aware of initially. So that covers half of it. The other half includes any number of games where the player is kidnapped or (Skyrim) features them riding in a cart to face their own execution for unknown crimes. The simple truth is that while players determine their backstories, the DM’s control what happens afterward. And as we’ve seen with Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic, that can lead to an amazing revelation that excites and changes the entire perception of the game. The need to pitch it to the players robs them of the mystery.
The difference here is that I’m cobbling together those three ideas into one and making up the story it leads to on my own. The backstory still matters because the players have to determine if those occurred X number of years ago, was implanted recently (Neogi), or if something else is going on.
Edit: It’s also fair to ask how much if any of those three questions and answers would be needed in the 1st to 3rd level part of the adventure to keep them engaged. I would be able to confirm their memories were real, but what other hints can I or should I offer up?
There's a gulf of difference between what works in a video game vs what works in a tabletop game. In video games, players have to accept a certain amount of railroading because ultimately the game can't reproduce anything the developers didn't program into it. Part of the appeal of tabletop gaming is that that is not the case. Players have more freedom to make who they want and do what they want, and create compelling characters with real personality. Players like having freedom to do this, and the DM making too many choices for them can be a turn-off.
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Please ignore this thread, I confused myself and got flustered and screwed up even the questions in looking for an answer to a question I hadn’t properly formulated (see the confusion). Please instead go to the thread I’m linking below as it puts things more clearly and thoughtfully. Thank you and sorry to everyone here that responded.
https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/dungeons-dragons-discussion/dungeon-masters-only/175057-how-does-a-pc-end-up-unwillingly-in-a-prison
I’d delete the whole thread but I don’t think I can.
I wouldn't go with the "you actually died" start unless the campaign you pitched to the players was one that takes place (or at least starts) in the afterlife. Especially telling the players they turned evil and don't remember it, again, unless "starting with amnesia and figuring out the mystery of who you are" was part of what you pitched to your players.
Otherwise, players could very easily feel like the choices they made when creating their character don't matter and the character they ended up with might be very different from the one they wanted.
Instead, I'd work with your players and ask them each; "why might your character be in a magical prison?" before you begin the campaign, so everyone knows that that's something they should account for in their backstory.
Well now, I’m not actually sure that’s true. One of the most critically acclaimed D&D video games was Torment: Planescape which featured a protagonist who was just waking up from his most recent incarnation for the reason to fix something he wasn’t aware of initially. So that covers half of it. The other half includes any number of games where the player is kidnapped or (Skyrim) features them riding in a cart to face their own execution for unknown crimes. The simple truth is that while players determine their backstories, the DM’s control what happens afterward. And as we’ve seen with Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic, that can lead to an amazing revelation that excites and changes the entire perception of the game. The need to pitch it to the players robs them of the mystery.
The difference here is that I’m cobbling together those three ideas into one and making up the story it leads to on my own. The backstory still matters because the players have to determine if those occurred X number of years ago, was implanted recently (Neogi), or if something else is going on.
Edit: It’s also fair to ask how much if any of those three questions and answers would be needed in the 1st to 3rd level part of the adventure to keep them engaged. I would be able to confirm their memories were real, but what other hints can I or should I offer up?
I’d be ok with the hijacked soul thing. My hiccup would be that I had to be villainous. Maybe I was rescuing orphans from a burning building, or I just died peacefully in my sleep. Let villainous be an option, but not the only option. Let the players figure out how they died. Could open up some interesting possibilities.
And, if the portal is opening to a place they don’t know, I’d let them know that so they don’t go choosing a background that won’t come up.
As far as the backgrounds go, the skill and subtle benefit would still work.
Right. But if it’s something like, you know people in this group, but the group doesn’t exist in this new place, it can be annoying. I guess they could travel and it could become relevant, just something to watch for.
No, for sure, it’s a good point to look out for. I’m also trying to figure out where in the world / planescape I’d want these villainous versions to be from. There’s really only two and a half (large archipelago) land masses in my world, though obviously it’s somewhat broken up (Frostweald, Elven Kingdom(s), Desert Empire and it’s vassal states (one being the ruined empire of the Tieflings) etc.).
Why not let them decide? If they don’t know each other from before they died, they could easily be from all over.
You’re citing three video games as a framework for how you want to play a TTRPG. Even in video games where you makes choices that determine which of the different endings you get, the player is not role playing as their character nor are they writing or really contributing to the story; they are simply discovering a pre-existing tale authored by the game creator. This is not the same as a TTRPG, which is a collaborative storytelling effort where the DM controls everything except the player characters and the player control nothing but their characters. I think it is a mistake as a DM to have your players discover a character background you have determined for them. Your initial thought that the players might feel that you stepped all over their backgrounds and how they imagined their character is spot on. They would have good reason.
@Xalthu
The problem there is that it would reveal too much of the World and Cosmology which I would not want to share with them, especially that early. At the end of things, I want a good part of the Adventure to include Exploration. Also, I like to think that finding out what their past selves got up to would be part of the fun.
@Born_of_fire74 I think I’ve moved to the point where I really like the intro (in general) as I’ve described it. I don’t disagree that making all the PC’s past selves be villains could be too much, so I might have one character be either a hero or a logical neutral sort. So, fine tuning to be done, and I still care about opinions, but just saying the whole thing doesn’t work no longer interests me. It’s not a bad idea, though, to ask the PC’s what their interests and eventual goals are so I can wrap that up into the narrative.
Please ignore this thread, I confused myself and got flustered and screwed up even the questions in looking for an answer to a question I hadn’t properly formulated (see the confusion). Please instead go to the thread I’m linking below as it puts things more clearly and thoughtfully.
https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/dungeons-dragons-discussion/dungeon-masters-only/175057-how-does-a-pc-end-up-unwillingly-in-a-prison
There's a gulf of difference between what works in a video game vs what works in a tabletop game. In video games, players have to accept a certain amount of railroading because ultimately the game can't reproduce anything the developers didn't program into it. Part of the appeal of tabletop gaming is that that is not the case. Players have more freedom to make who they want and do what they want, and create compelling characters with real personality. Players like having freedom to do this, and the DM making too many choices for them can be a turn-off.