Looking for advice on some tweaks to the Druid class.
I have a player creating a Moon Druid as a back up character, essentially he would like more than 2 uses of wildshape. I largely allow homebrew/house rules etc. as long as they aren't totally broken. the 'rule of cool' reigns supreme if you will. we've talked about it at length and here's what we've come up with that I think is pretty reasonable and may even be more of a nerf than a buff. to preface this, his desire for more uses is largely to be able to use it more OUTSIDE of combat, roleplay/utility purposes, etc. and not feel the need to always 'save' wildshape for combat. I actually tend to like RAW because overall I think it gives weight and consequences to choices, but I like cool shit and happy players more.
in exchange for more uses of wildshape, maximum of 2 additional uses, he takes half of any damage dealt to his wildshape form once it ends (up to half the wildshape forms maximum hitpoints) in addition to any excess dmg beyond 0.
ie. wildshapes into brown bear w/ 34 hp. takes 20dmg, heals 10, then take 30 ( 34 -> 14 -> 24 -> -6) 23 dmg would be dealt to the characters normal form, 6 (excess dmg past 0) and 17 (half the bears max hp) you'll notice healing during wild shape does not increase the amount of damage done to normal form when wildshape ends. otherwise, if he took say only 20 dmg in bear form, when he reverts, 10 of that would carry over. hope that all makes sense.
the damage carry over would be in effect from lvl 2. I am thinking of giving him 1 additional charge at lvl 4th-5th and a second at 6th-8th. or simply give both additional uses at 4th-5th. I also like this cause it seems to balance the moon druids insane damage output at such early levels.
As a way of hopefully leaving the math out of it, how about the following:
"You get the normal amount of wildshapse but you can also burn your Hit Dice to wildshape into the form of a few normal beasts. Choose a number of beasts equal to your proficiency bonus, these are the only forms you can adopt using your Hit Dice. Using Hit Dice in this way uses up ONE hit dice per CR (or fraction there of) of the beast you are wildshaping into and you can only wildshape into beasts using this ability and all normal wildshape restrictions apply. "
That way the Moon Druid player can get some extra uses but they wont be able to spam wildshaping into elemental forms at higher levels and they will be using up some resources to accomplish the extra wildshapes and you can also make sure the player is using it for the out of combat reasons they want.
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What I would do is if he wants to use wildshape for RP then there's no set limit as long as he doesn't go crazy. It's just for fun anyway. I wouldn't give any for utility or combat. They come back on a short rest so maybe agree that you'll keep that in mind and make sure they have opportunity to take those rests. Druid wildshape utility is very powerful and giving more (especially to a moon druid), can upset balance. Adding more math to combat damage will just slow things down and doesn't really solve the balance issue. Another option is to implement channel nature (I think it's in UA right now?). So basically once per long rest, they can regain a single use of wildshape. That way they can have utility but still have an option if things get ugly. At once per day usage, they still have to be careful on when to use it.
What I would do is if he wants to use wildshape for RP then there's no set limit as long as he doesn't go crazy. It's just for fun anyway. I wouldn't give any for utility or combat.
I agree with the idea of aesthetic transformations that should be your first thought
If you really want to give it statistics and have game play effects then my recommendation is:
0 hit points. They revert on a single hit and all damage is carried over
0 damage. They cannot attack or target another creature in animal form. Doing so causes them to revert.
Normal wild shape limits or less. They cannot transform into flying or swimming creatures either at all or unless they already could.
With those rules you get a level of utility that is around that of the find familiar which is something a wizard and allot of other characters will have constantly.
I'd not do any of that damage stuff. Just go the route of 1DND - wild shapes can be used as spell slots (rather, vice versa). A 1st level slot will give you 1 minute or 10 minutes or something, and scale it up from there.
It's still using resources, it still has weight to decision making, voila! Everyone's happy.
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I know what you're thinking: "In that flurry of blows, did he use all his ki points, or save one?" Well, are ya feeling lucky, punk?
The one issue with going the 1DnD route is that druids in 1DnD use their own HP. So mixing 5e and 1DnD can be over powered. If you're going to go with spell slots, you're back to damage balance and I would just use the 1DnD rules. Keep in mind that they are still play testing and more balance adjustments may need to be made.
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Looking for advice on some tweaks to the Druid class.
I have a player creating a Moon Druid as a back up character, essentially he would like more than 2 uses of wildshape. I largely allow homebrew/house rules etc. as long as they aren't totally broken. the 'rule of cool' reigns supreme if you will. we've talked about it at length and here's what we've come up with that I think is pretty reasonable and may even be more of a nerf than a buff. to preface this, his desire for more uses is largely to be able to use it more OUTSIDE of combat, roleplay/utility purposes, etc. and not feel the need to always 'save' wildshape for combat. I actually tend to like RAW because overall I think it gives weight and consequences to choices, but I like cool shit and happy players more.
in exchange for more uses of wildshape, maximum of 2 additional uses, he takes half of any damage dealt to his wildshape form once it ends (up to half the wildshape forms maximum hitpoints) in addition to any excess dmg beyond 0.
ie. wildshapes into brown bear w/ 34 hp. takes 20dmg, heals 10, then take 30 ( 34 -> 14 -> 24 -> -6) 23 dmg would be dealt to the characters normal form, 6 (excess dmg past 0) and 17 (half the bears max hp) you'll notice healing during wild shape does not increase the amount of damage done to normal form when wildshape ends. otherwise, if he took say only 20 dmg in bear form, when he reverts, 10 of that would carry over. hope that all makes sense.
the damage carry over would be in effect from lvl 2. I am thinking of giving him 1 additional charge at lvl 4th-5th and a second at 6th-8th. or simply give both additional uses at 4th-5th.
I also like this cause it seems to balance the moon druids insane damage output at such early levels.
any thoughts and input is appreciated!
As a way of hopefully leaving the math out of it, how about the following:
"You get the normal amount of wildshapse but you can also burn your Hit Dice to wildshape into the form of a few normal beasts. Choose a number of beasts equal to your proficiency bonus, these are the only forms you can adopt using your Hit Dice. Using Hit Dice in this way uses up ONE hit dice per CR (or fraction there of) of the beast you are wildshaping into and you can only wildshape into beasts using this ability and all normal wildshape restrictions apply. "
That way the Moon Druid player can get some extra uses but they wont be able to spam wildshaping into elemental forms at higher levels and they will be using up some resources to accomplish the extra wildshapes and you can also make sure the player is using it for the out of combat reasons they want.
What I would do is if he wants to use wildshape for RP then there's no set limit as long as he doesn't go crazy. It's just for fun anyway. I wouldn't give any for utility or combat. They come back on a short rest so maybe agree that you'll keep that in mind and make sure they have opportunity to take those rests. Druid wildshape utility is very powerful and giving more (especially to a moon druid), can upset balance. Adding more math to combat damage will just slow things down and doesn't really solve the balance issue. Another option is to implement channel nature (I think it's in UA right now?). So basically once per long rest, they can regain a single use of wildshape. That way they can have utility but still have an option if things get ugly. At once per day usage, they still have to be careful on when to use it.
I agree with the idea of aesthetic transformations that should be your first thought
If you really want to give it statistics and have game play effects then my recommendation is:
With those rules you get a level of utility that is around that of the find familiar which is something a wizard and allot of other characters will have constantly.
I'd not do any of that damage stuff. Just go the route of 1DND - wild shapes can be used as spell slots (rather, vice versa). A 1st level slot will give you 1 minute or 10 minutes or something, and scale it up from there.
It's still using resources, it still has weight to decision making, voila! Everyone's happy.
I know what you're thinking: "In that flurry of blows, did he use all his ki points, or save one?" Well, are ya feeling lucky, punk?
The one issue with going the 1DnD route is that druids in 1DnD use their own HP. So mixing 5e and 1DnD can be over powered. If you're going to go with spell slots, you're back to damage balance and I would just use the 1DnD rules. Keep in mind that they are still play testing and more balance adjustments may need to be made.