I've never been in this spot, but I'm having a bit of a "table revolt".

I have a player which really doesn't fit, and it's causing some real table/group problems.

There are a laundry list of reasons, from play style, character fit ( or lack thereof ), being the only evil character, table etiquette issues, constant complaints about the 5e system ( and how we'd all have a much better time playing the systems he's writing), and personal morbid comments and fixations which are increasingly making other players uncomfortable .

Personally, I have issues with everything that my players are bringing to me now, but I've been just "riding it out" - personally - as I know people are all different, and some of us are eccentric.

We've had a couple of "group chats" pre-session where I've laid out to the whole party what the expectations about etiquette are and needing to "play an adventuring character that wants to adventure with others".

I've also had personal sit-down meeting with this player, and one other, about in game friction, and - again - re-iterated what the expectations are. Not a "while you're playing at my table, these are the rules ..." - but more "this is what we all need to do to make this group work".

It's finally come to the point where I have other players ( plural ) talking about leaving the game, because of this one player. I've spoken to the balance of my players, and all ( but one, who I can't reach now as they're literally in the middle of the Atlantic :p ) seem to have issues with this one player - and while they're not at the "him or me" stage yet, they seem to express some relief at the concept of proceeding without this particular player.

I've never removed someone from a group before; I hate confronting people; I hate "rejecting" people.

I think the approach I want to use is "there isn't necessarily anything wrong with your play style, or your preferred system - it's just really not a good fit for this group, it's causing some friction and unhappiness with both you and the rest of the group, and I think both you and the group would be happier finding a more compatible match".

Barring that, I can escalate with "incompatible playing style","increasing player-vs.-player tensions", and "personality conflicts" - but as each level gets more and more personal, I'd stop once they get the point and agree that this isn't working.

Perhaps I'm "wimping out" by hoping that by me pointing out how this player seems to be unhappy with the group, that they will decide to withdraw :p Maybe I should just go all blunt: "You're fired". :p

Any advice? 

The passive aggressive approach doesn't work, we'll start with that.

In your situation, you've done everything a decent DM should do, group talks, personal talks, session 0, et al. You are now at the point where you do have to make this personal. I had a player who was blatantly cheating. I made table rules to mitigate this, trying to persuade this person to change their ways. I had conversations with the table, again not pointing fingers, about how I don't like cheating, and the ways that I have dealt with it in the past. I did everything to try to, passively, convince this player to stop their actions. I eventually had to step aside with this player and tell them straight up: "You need to stop, if you don't I can't have you at my table". It escalated quickly, first it was denial, then it was anger at being singled out, then it was trying to say other players were cheating as well, it was ugly. In the end, as this person didn't want to change and/or accept that they were doing something unacceptable at my table, I had to remove them. 

None of us, DMs and Players alike, want to kick a player from a game. Unfortunately there are people who just don't mesh. 

I hadn't considered my approach "passive aggressive" - making the player uncomfortable to the point of them leaving would be ( and a dick move to boot ) - but, I acknowledged in my own post that pointing out to the character that they might want to leave already could be "***** footing around" - so yeah, I'll accept that :p

I would like to do the "You need to stop, if you don't I can't have you at my table" - to me that seems the next logical step.

Unfortunately, I think with multiple players now adopting the "him or me" approach, we're past that.

I think we're at the "I can't have you at my table" point - so just lead with "You and the group seem to have incompatible approaches, it's caused problems in the past, we've talked about it, those issues have not been resolved, the situation has gotten steadily worse - I think it's time you sought a more compatible gaming group". If this player wants to know why, I think they have the right to an explanation - but if they don't, there's no need to go into the details; just part ways and be done.

Thanks,

You're kicking a player?  At my table, we throw dice, not punches (or kicks, in this case) but to each his own!  I would recommend stretching beforehand, wearing a protective boot, and following through for a more effective contact.  The worst thing possible would be a kick gone awry...

Seriously, though, you've talked with him, so he should be aware that this issue is not a new one.  The insisting on switching from 5e to his own system is a red flag, and possibly a segue to a clean break.  First off, if he's seemingly just sticking around to try and attract people to his own rules set, then you can make the following offer:  Point out that it seems he really wants to try out his system, that people are generally okay with how the 5e campaign is going, and suggest that maybe he run a one-shot to give people a try with his system.  In the meantime, ask him what his expectations are from a game session with the group (if you haven't already) and how he feels they aren't being met.  If he has little to offer by way of an answer, explain some of the concerns from other players (without naming names, or directly pointing out that they are things he has done) and how their expectations are valid and should be considered.  If he refuses to consider their concerns, then tell him that this probably isn't the group for him.  Also remind him that you at least are willing to try out his system at least once, and look forward to hearing when he has it ready to go.  If people really like his system so much more than 5e, then they'll want to come back for more.

Quote from JediShadow >>

  I would recommend stretching beforehand, wearing a protective boot, and following through for a more effective contact.  The worst thing possible would be a kick gone awry...

Quote from JediShadow >>

You're kicking a player?  At my table, we throw dice, not punches (or kicks, in this case) but to each his own!  I would recommend stretching beforehand, wearing a protective boot, and following through for a more effective contact.  The worst thing possible would be a kick gone awry...

Seriously, though, you've talked with him, so he should be aware that this issue is not a new one.  The insisting on switching from 5e to his own system is a red flag, and possibly a segue to a clean break.  First off, if he's seemingly just sticking around to try and attract people to his own rules set, then you can make the following offer:  Point out that it seems he really wants to try out his system, that people are generally okay with how the 5e campaign is going, and suggest that maybe he run a one-shot to give people a try with his system.  In the meantime, ask him what his expectations are from a game session with the group (if you haven't already) and how he feels they aren't being met.  If he has little to offer by way of an answer, explain some of the concerns from other players (without naming names, or directly pointing out that they are things he has done) and how their expectations are valid and should be considered.  If he refuses to consider their concerns, then tell him that this probably isn't the group for him.  Also remind him that you at least are willing to try out his system at least once, and look forward to hearing when he has it ready to go.  If people really like his system so much more than 5e, then they'll want to come back for more.

Well, if the situation has persisted, then...

It's not an easy thing to do, by any means, but it's officially come to that point.  We had a whole gaming group crumble because one of the players wouldn't cooperate.  He was "on the Spectrum" and so nobody felt comfortable confronting him with anything, but it led to nobody having fun.  If you aren't having fun, then what's the point?

Quote from Vedexent >>

I think the approach I want to use is "there isn't necessarily anything wrong with your play style, or your preferred system - it's just really not a good fit for this group, it's causing some friction and unhappiness with both you and the rest of the group, and I think both you and the group would be happier finding a more compatible match".

It sounds as though you've already given this player too many chances. You have clearly outlined your expectations and the social contract that D&D entails, and not only has this player continued to be disruptive, but they don't appear to have made any efforts to improve their behavior.

Having this person in your group has already damaged your game. It's best to rip off the band-aid as soon as possible, as painful as it may be to confront this person directly. I think it's fine to frame this as a compatibility issue, but there are also some behaviors that are not acceptable in any game. How blunt you are about the circumstances really just depends on how much you like this person outside of D&D.

Once the break is made, I would not do as other posters have suggested and attempt to help this person find another game. It's best to just wash your hands of this situation and move on. Also, in the event you confront this player and they then promise to change their ways, I wouldn't suggest giving them another opportunity to prove they're a bad fit for your group. Make it clear to the player this is a final decision and not a discussion.

At some point you have to just pull the trigger on booting him. You have given him seemingly every chance to make it work at your table and he is still persisting. Outside of him being a relative, your best friend, or you NEEDING him at the table to keep the number of players viable, I'd say adios with no further delay. He clearly misses the point of the game and is only out for his own amusement. 

You need to kick him. You will do him a huge favour because, as yet, he has never observed consequences for his behavior. You are enabling his behavior until he is kicked.

Quote from csheets416 >>

At some point you have to just pull the trigger on booting him. You have given him seemingly every chance to make it work at your table and he is still persisting. Outside of him being a relative, your best friend, or you NEEDING him at the table to keep the number of players viable, I'd say adios with no further delay. He clearly misses the point of the game and is only out for his own amusement. 

You've already talked about this problem generally, it sounds like you have talked to him at least once one-on-one about the problem, you are on the last warning. One-on-one, tell him that his behavior is resulting in a lack of fun. We play games to have fun. If he doesn't change his attitude, then he will be asked to leave. Once you said that, and if he fails to meet your expectations, you follow through and kick him from the group.

I've had to do this, and it really sucks. A player was sexually harassing one of the other players and I was there to witness it. He was gone in a snap. It was ugly, but it was necessary. We had a good 6-month game after that.

I've been in games where the DM doesn't kick out a toxic player, and the group completely falls apart. In character fighting, out of character arguments, some people even having shouting matches. At some point, the other players will have enough and stop coming. No one wants to devote 2+ hours to not-fun.

I would never advocate violence but if you insist on kicking a player, then I highly recommend taking some MMA classes.

I have had one kicked before its best to think of it as a grope detection and not a personal thing and make it so no friendships end at least in how you do it. 

If you're giving him 'one more warning' make sure your other players know so that they don't think you're doing nothing about it. If he doesn't comply, boot him. But sounds like you would be being reasonable if you just contacted him now to say don't come back. "Really, it's not me, it's you."

I would really rather give him a final ultimatum - but I think I'm losing player(s) one way or another here.

Either we part ways with him, or I lose multiple other players.

If I wanted to be a cold-hearted calculating bastard, the numbers are clear :P

Still - it also sounds like people also agree that the ethics are clear ( or as clear as ethics ever get ).

I appreciate all the feedback.

Also, just because you're the DM doesn't mean this all has to be on you. Get the other players together, tell them all of what has been relayed, and ask them what they think of your plan. If the decision is as unanimous as you believe it will be, then maybe everyone should be there to confront the problem. That way, you have support if it comes to telling him he's out, and he sees that each person has umbrage with his actions. He'll either get defensive and make it a victimization, or it'll be the wake up call he needs to decide to make a change or leave of his own accord.

Have you heard of the Geek Social Fallacies? You seem to be using several of these. The hard truth is, if nobody enjoys playing with him, just kick him out. Be blunt. If you really don't want to be harsh, you could give him an ultimatum: knock it off in, say, 2 sessions or you're out.

Quote from 4GnomesInATrenchCoat >>

Have you heard of the Geek Social Fallacies? You seem to be using several of these. The hard truth is, if nobody enjoys playing with him, just kick him out. Be blunt. If you really don't want to be harsh, you could give him an ultimatum: knock it off in, say, 2 sessions or you're out.