So we are going to be running a modified version of Rise of Tiamat. I have a very large party with 10 players, I am starting them at 10th level with the goal of going all the way to level 20 and make the Tiamat battle a true showdown of an evil god vs heroes. I'm looking at the assassination attempts that the adventure talks about, for the last attempt I'm thinking about setting up a surprise attack by an assassination squad made up of characters close to their same level and power. I am planning on the attempt to take place at about 17th level, so the bad squad would be made up of about 6-8 17th level characters and armed with powerful magic items. for example, I definitely want a rogue/assassin armed with a crossbow and purple worm poison for one of them, another I would like to be armed with one of the vestiges of divergence. My goal for this encounter is a serious attempt to maim and/or kill some of the PC's so it will put the fear of Tiamat in them and bring there "we are golden gods" mindset down to earth, and since they will be powerful enough that they can recover fairly quickly so it shouldn't have any lasting effects....hopefully.
What I need help with is designing this optimized murder squad from hell, drawing from any class and any source book. Needs to include 6-8 17th lvl characters capable of dealing massive damage and/or crowd control options.
I have never played at that level, but with 10 characters, I will assume they have a fair representation of.most of the classes. Because this, I'll say what tactics I would use.
Pepper them with a couple fireballs, followed by sniper arrow at the healers. Remove their ability to heal and stay standing. Draw the tanks in, let them separate themselves from the spellcaster. As they over commit, a 2nd surprise comes from behind at the same time a Wall of force separate the two forces. Choose movement spells and don't target individual characters. Their saves are too high. Area of effects and spells effecting the characters without saves (like spike growth), will drive them crazy.
Tiamat and her people are smart and will have analyzed their abilities. Keep track of what they demonstrate, and counter/exploit as needed. If you see them worried, I think you've succeed
I know other will probaonly given more specifics, but this is generally what I'd do.
And concentrate on ways to cut down their options. One annoying tactic used in an ambush on my players was a rock-mud beneath them, immediately followed by mud-rock.So. Mr Adventurer, your boots are now locked in rock - try dodging THIS!
If the ambush is somewhere the assassins can prepare in advance, there are all sorts of other such tricks they can prepare. Dropping a wall of stone on them, gas or acid, splitting them apart (divide & conquer). With proper tactics, an inferior assassin team can do a lot more damage than in melee.
Distract them with a few fighters with +3 plate, then have the rouges get a surprise attack, after spreading out the party. tell me how it goes! Maybe a barbarian or two for good measure will be fun
So I have a party with a paladin that can tank literally every that uses attack rolls, they have to crit to hit him. They have no clerics but they do have a fair grouping of classes capable of support and healing.
Any ideas on what I should throw at them besides a Mage to shut down magic, a couple ranged guys, 6 or so melee dudes to stall for other members of the group to pick off the party?
the (dramatic voice) EPIC LEVEL HANDBOOK from 3.5 had teh highest level assasin called a gloom. you would have to seriously nerf the thing(and port it to 5e), but i can give you waht makes them so cool
the're a monsterous humanoid. that creature type dosent exist anymore, but its a cool one.
they look humanoid, and always wear tight fittting clothes in line with the culture their infiltrating's funeral garb
they have a +10 dagger of human fright(whatever that means) that becomes an ordinary +10 dagger when held by anyone other than a gloom
they can do shadow teleport
now go out there! reenact a horror movie at your game table! and read the epic level handbook!
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Pronouns: Any/All
About Me: Godless monster in human form bent on extending their natural life to unnatural extremes /general of the goose horde /Moderator of Vinstreb School for the Gifted /holder of the evil storyteller badge of no honor /king of madness /The FBI/ The Archmage of I CAST...!
Alignment: Lawful Evil
Fun Fact: i gain more power the more you post on my forum threads. MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!
they have a +10 dagger of human fright(whatever that means) that becomes an ordinary +10 dagger when held by anyone other than a gloom
“just your ordinary +10 dagger. Pretty standard stuff for a player to have”
I mean, if it’s from anything, a decked out laser turret or two, bunkered into a cliff with just the tip of the barrel sticking out could prove hard to face. If they had a magic item that summons near unlimited monsters, and can restock them, that’d be rough. A monk with paralyzing arrows that can send so many attacks that the odds of them failing the dc on one of them are near certain. On the off chance they don’t have maxed out sight by that point, smoke, fog, or darkness could be effective.
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“In a hole in the ground there lived a hobbit. Not a nasty, dirty, wet hole, filled with the ends of worms and an oozy smell, nor yet a dry, bare, sandy hole with nothing in it to sit down on or to eat: it was a hobbithole, and that means comfort.”
Give monsters classes. Giving dragons levels in rogues, fighters, and spellcasting can be terrifying. That will bump up scary monsters. Also increase hp a lot, having run 7 players before, you need like an extra 100-200 hp at higher levels to make enemies threats. Also a lot of enemies or giving them legendary actions helps
I am running ToD as well (we're just starting however) so I am interested in how this goes for you. With so many players I think that to balance it out is tricky.. you either have to go straight lethal with the bad guys and hope your players don't pull any swarm tactic shenanigans or do pull out a veritable army. To me since you said they have been feeling pretty indestructible I'd poison them the night before at the inn that they are staying in.. make it subtle but if it's an inn that they frequent and they know the servers mention that it's a different girl serving their food tonight. For the poison I'd go either with something that lowers their resistances or saving throws or gives them one or two levels of exhaustion or something .... nothing that they wouldn't attribute to feeling super lethargic or slow in the morning and blame the drinks until they get into combat. That way your not making any of the them feel bored by paralyzing them, but you're taking them down a peg and making them feel weak (and reminding them that they live in a world where the bad guys can hit them even in town). If you want to go even more diabolical have the assassins creep into wherever the players stay at, forcing them to fight out of their armor and with no preparation... maybe set the inn on fire while they're in it too.
Second, I'd create an ambush setting, you know your players, so you know what they'd split up for.. injured caravan on the road? orphanage on fire? Anything that will get them to separate by even a couple of dozen of feet lets you throw up a wall of force (re-flavored as a wall of Dragon Fire since we are talking Tiamat here). Next have you looked at some of the older editions dragon prestige classes or subclasses? I'd make each of these assassins a Claw of Tiamat, give them a legendary action or reaction so they can keep hitting the party and some extra poisoned blades that synergizes with the food poisoning they already got. Then I'd go for the throat.
If you wipe the party have them captured for a session, let them pull a break out and maybe put some of the intel you were going to give them in the camp as well.. lets them feel humbled a bit, roleplay with one another the classic prison escape, and you get to sprinkle in some of the handouts you were already going to give them but this time it feel very earned. Also I'd name each one of these assassins, make each one a bit of either a reflection of one of the players or straight opposite, that way they feel almost like they are fighting themselves but evil (bizarro style). But those are just my thoughts, I hope it goes great for you and that they love the effort and work you're putting into it.
Heck if this is level 17 honestly I'd burn their favorite town to the ground.. they wake up poisoned, unarmored and being beset by assassins that have been training for this ambush for a month. So burn it all down. Let them feel betrayed and enraged at the cult and swear vengeance upon Tiamat for killing their favorite NPCs in the town.. it's at the end of the game almost so I'd set up every devious trap outside the inn.. and then have the assassins cast meteor swarm on the thing while the players sleep inside.
So we are going to be running a modified version of Rise of Tiamat. I have a very large party with 10 players, I am starting them at 10th level with the goal of going all the way to level 20 and make the Tiamat battle a true showdown of an evil god vs heroes. I'm looking at the assassination attempts that the adventure talks about, for the last attempt I'm thinking about setting up a surprise attack by an assassination squad made up of characters close to their same level and power. I am planning on the attempt to take place at about 17th level, so the bad squad would be made up of about 6-8 17th level characters and armed with powerful magic items. for example, I definitely want a rogue/assassin armed with a crossbow and purple worm poison for one of them, another I would like to be armed with one of the vestiges of divergence. My goal for this encounter is a serious attempt to maim and/or kill some of the PC's so it will put the fear of Tiamat in them and bring there "we are golden gods" mindset down to earth, and since they will be powerful enough that they can recover fairly quickly so it shouldn't have any lasting effects....hopefully.
What I need help with is designing this optimized murder squad from hell, drawing from any class and any source book. Needs to include 6-8 17th lvl characters capable of dealing massive damage and/or crowd control options.
I have never played at that level, but with 10 characters, I will assume they have a fair representation of.most of the classes. Because this, I'll say what tactics I would use.
Pepper them with a couple fireballs, followed by sniper arrow at the healers. Remove their ability to heal and stay standing. Draw the tanks in, let them separate themselves from the spellcaster. As they over commit, a 2nd surprise comes from behind at the same time a Wall of force separate the two forces. Choose movement spells and don't target individual characters. Their saves are too high. Area of effects and spells effecting the characters without saves (like spike growth), will drive them crazy.
Tiamat and her people are smart and will have analyzed their abilities. Keep track of what they demonstrate, and counter/exploit as needed. If you see them worried, I think you've succeed
I know other will probaonly given more specifics, but this is generally what I'd do.
And concentrate on ways to cut down their options. One annoying tactic used in an ambush on my players was a rock-mud beneath them, immediately followed by mud-rock.So. Mr Adventurer, your boots are now locked in rock - try dodging THIS!
If the ambush is somewhere the assassins can prepare in advance, there are all sorts of other such tricks they can prepare. Dropping a wall of stone on them, gas or acid, splitting them apart (divide & conquer). With proper tactics, an inferior assassin team can do a lot more damage than in melee.
Level 17 ambush? Um... drop two Meteor Swarms on the party?
Distract them with a few fighters with +3 plate, then have the rouges get a surprise attack, after spreading out the party. tell me how it goes! Maybe a barbarian or two for good measure will be fun
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So I have a party with a paladin that can tank literally every that uses attack rolls, they have to crit to hit him. They have no clerics but they do have a fair grouping of classes capable of support and healing.
Any ideas on what I should throw at them besides a Mage to shut down magic, a couple ranged guys, 6 or so melee dudes to stall for other members of the group to pick off the party?
the (dramatic voice) EPIC LEVEL HANDBOOK from 3.5 had teh highest level assasin called a gloom. you would have to seriously nerf the thing(and port it to 5e), but i can give you waht makes them so cool
now go out there! reenact a horror movie at your game table! and read the epic level handbook!
Pronouns: Any/All
About Me: Godless monster in human form bent on extending their natural life to unnatural extremes /general of the goose horde /Moderator of Vinstreb School for the Gifted /holder of the evil storyteller badge of no honor /king of madness /The FBI/ The Archmage of I CAST...!
Alignment: Lawful Evil
Fun Fact: i gain more power the more you post on my forum threads. MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!
“just your ordinary +10 dagger. Pretty standard stuff for a player to have”
I mean, if it’s from anything, a decked out laser turret or two, bunkered into a cliff with just the tip of the barrel sticking out could prove hard to face. If they had a magic item that summons near unlimited monsters, and can restock them, that’d be rough. A monk with paralyzing arrows that can send so many attacks that the odds of them failing the dc on one of them are near certain. On the off chance they don’t have maxed out sight by that point, smoke, fog, or darkness could be effective.
“In a hole in the ground there lived a hobbit. Not a nasty, dirty, wet hole, filled with the ends of worms and an oozy smell, nor yet a dry, bare, sandy hole with nothing in it to sit down on or to eat: it was a hobbithole, and that means comfort.”
Give monsters classes. Giving dragons levels in rogues, fighters, and spellcasting can be terrifying. That will bump up scary monsters. Also increase hp a lot, having run 7 players before, you need like an extra 100-200 hp at higher levels to make enemies threats. Also a lot of enemies or giving them legendary actions helps
I am running ToD as well (we're just starting however) so I am interested in how this goes for you.
With so many players I think that to balance it out is tricky.. you either have to go straight lethal with the bad guys and hope your players don't pull any swarm tactic shenanigans or do pull out a veritable army.
To me since you said they have been feeling pretty indestructible I'd poison them the night before at the inn that they are staying in.. make it subtle but if it's an inn that they frequent and they know the servers mention that it's a different girl serving their food tonight. For the poison I'd go either with something that lowers their resistances or saving throws or gives them one or two levels of exhaustion or something .... nothing that they wouldn't attribute to feeling super lethargic or slow in the morning and blame the drinks until they get into combat. That way your not making any of the them feel bored by paralyzing them, but you're taking them down a peg and making them feel weak (and reminding them that they live in a world where the bad guys can hit them even in town). If you want to go even more diabolical have the assassins creep into wherever the players stay at, forcing them to fight out of their armor and with no preparation... maybe set the inn on fire while they're in it too.
Second, I'd create an ambush setting, you know your players, so you know what they'd split up for.. injured caravan on the road? orphanage on fire? Anything that will get them to separate by even a couple of dozen of feet lets you throw up a wall of force (re-flavored as a wall of Dragon Fire since we are talking Tiamat here). Next have you looked at some of the older editions dragon prestige classes or subclasses? I'd make each of these assassins a Claw of Tiamat, give them a legendary action or reaction so they can keep hitting the party and some extra poisoned blades that synergizes with the food poisoning they already got. Then I'd go for the throat.
If you wipe the party have them captured for a session, let them pull a break out and maybe put some of the intel you were going to give them in the camp as well.. lets them feel humbled a bit, roleplay with one another the classic prison escape, and you get to sprinkle in some of the handouts you were already going to give them but this time it feel very earned.
Also I'd name each one of these assassins, make each one a bit of either a reflection of one of the players or straight opposite, that way they feel almost like they are fighting themselves but evil (bizarro style). But those are just my thoughts, I hope it goes great for you and that they love the effort and work you're putting into it.
Heck if this is level 17 honestly I'd burn their favorite town to the ground.. they wake up poisoned, unarmored and being beset by assassins that have been training for this ambush for a month. So burn it all down. Let them feel betrayed and enraged at the cult and swear vengeance upon Tiamat for killing their favorite NPCs in the town.. it's at the end of the game almost so I'd set up every devious trap outside the inn.. and then have the assassins cast meteor swarm on the thing while the players sleep inside.
Keep it up and let us know how it goes!