I have a player that used true polymorph and became an adult gold dragon. Another player cast clone on it. So after the 120 days my player will be a dragon permanently. I know dragons get the shape shift ability. If my player shapeshifts into their previous form (human for ex.). Would they get all their original spells and abilities as normal?? Or how would you run that?
Is this 5e? True Polymorph becomes "permanent" after one hour.
With Change Shape, the dragon retains its proficiencies, Legendary Actions, resistances and Intelligence, Wisdom and Charisma scores. So while it can turn into a humanoid that looks like the original form, it would not be the original form. So I would rule that its human form would not have their original spells and abilities.
If they want to regain their original spells and abilities then they will need to have the True Polymorph dispelled. Or drop to zero hit points.
Yes this is 5e. After the 120 days my player will die and become the clone which will be a dragon. So there's no way they can become their original form again.
Well it depends according to the rules no they cant but if you want to let them shift into their old self than you could let them do that but it is ultimately up to you
Sounds like an interesting dilemma that I sort of ran into as I had an NPC permanently get turned into a Young Gold Dragon. If I'm understanding correctly, I guess that technically, there is nothing stopping a dragon from learning spells as a human Wizard/Sorcerer etc would, it's just the base dragons in the Monster Manual don't have that. No reason you couldn't homebrew, for instance, that an adult dragon has learned several spells over the years. So while I can't speak for the official rules off hand it makes sense that a human who turned into a dragon but maintained his or her memories, experience, etc would still have them.
It's up to you, but there could be differences. Maybe the change in the 'type' of energy a dragon wields vs a human makes the process of casting hard to do and they have to work to regain their previous levels. Maybe this expresses itself in having fewer spell slots, as a way to balance the bonus from having turned into a dragon. At some point if they lived for centuries they would adjust but in the immediate maybe that would keep things level?
"In a new form, the dragon retains its alignment, hit points, Hit Dice, ability to speak, proficiencies, Legendary Resistance, lair actions, and Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores, as well as this action. Its statistics and capabilities are otherwise replaced by those of the new form, except any class features or legendary actions of that form."
Bolded section says no class features, so excepting a few spells from racial abilities, they are losing their levels.
However, RAW could scupper them even more:
"Change Shape. The dragon magically polymorphs into a humanoid or beast that has a challenge rating no higher than its own, or back into its true form. It reverts to its true form if it dies. Any equipment it is wearing or carrying is absorbed or borne by the new form (the dragon's choice).
In a new form, the dragon retains its alignment, hit points, Hit Dice, ability to speak, proficiencies, Legendary Resistance, lair actions, and Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores, as well as this action. Its statistics and capabilities are otherwise replaced by those of the new form, except any class features or legendary actions of that form."
So the dragon has 2 options, "New Form" and "True Form". Note that "True Form" does not say "Dragon Form". So the character went through some essentially cheap shenanigans to become a gold dragon. They then polymorph into themselves, and retain their abilities. Then they polymorph back into their "True Form", which is what they were before they were a dragon, and regain all their class abilities, and lose their dragon abilities.
So far as the game is concerned, as soon as a player has become a dragon, they should really become an NPC. Maybe let them play for a while, but throughout they should hear the call to lair up and accumulate gold. Discuss with the player that this is going to be the end of their adventuring and that they should roleplay this growing urge. Make it the climactic final fight before the gold dragon leaves to hide in a cave for a few hundred years. If things go down that way, the player might say their character tries to take all the gold, though a gold dragon is typically good.
Certainly it would be fun to play a dragon, but talk about putting a load on the GM. How does a GM keep things fun and interesting, especially if there are other, less fantastic PCs involved as well? Will all the players want to be dragons, too? Some GMs could do it, perhaps even I could, but the prep time required to balance such an adventure would be daunting for someone like me.
Closest I came to this, and possibly an option depending on the story line: Hand an NPC Dragon over to the player, stats and all, and let them know that no matter how their play goes, that dragon will either be retired from play, or dead, at the end of this session. I was asked to do this once as an assistant DM, back in the 90s, and I had a ball playing the smartest, most cunning green dragon that I could be. After an interesting encounter, and a fierce battle, this dragon chose to live, and eventually abandoned its lair to the party, barely making it out alive. In that world, the dragon started over, elsewhere; it was never seen by that party again.
I have a player that used true polymorph and became an adult gold dragon. Another player cast clone on it. So after the 120 days my player will be a dragon permanently. I know dragons get the shape shift ability. If my player shapeshifts into their previous form (human for ex.). Would they get all their original spells and abilities as normal?? Or how would you run that?
The spell lasts for the duration, or until the target drops to 0 hit points or dies.
Meaning dieing to become the clone would end true polymorph and even if it didn't clone says
The clone is physically identical to the original and has the same personality, memories, and abilities, but none of the original's equipment.
Meaning being reborn into the clone would keep your race and everything the same. If true polymorph was still in effect then you would be a polymorphed but nothing would change.
If you want it to work then it would require you to come up with your own rules in which case the players are basically creating a custom ritual to become a dragon. From the description they are trying to craft a biologically dragon body using transmutation magic and necromancy to transfer their soul into it. Personally I don't think that would automatically give them the magical significance of a dragon. They'd really be making a possessed dragon shaped flesh puppet and in my opinion such a creature wouldn't have a dragons normal lair actions, environmental effects and possibly not even their breath weapon. It may even be some kind of rotting undead monstrosity that angers gods and other dragons but good luck to them.
In my opinion this kind of thing is a legendary event that should be a quest line in and of itself as opposed to something done casually in down time but assuming they can pull it off. Assuming they can become a true dragon while maintaining their memories and any other powers they had and master the uncommon ability among dragons to shape change. Then sure they can have their old class levels while being a dragon. If what ever creature they end up as would be appropriate to fight for what ever you have planned as the boss then its a great epic moment. If it isn't then the final fight becomes defending that ritual from those trying to stop them which could be a different band of heroes, the original villain or possibly an uneasy alliance of both because ascending to being a dragon is probably as big a deal if not greater than what ever the villain is doing.
In this case I would advise allowing the player to keep all of their accumulated class levels and ability's. A fighter or barbarian is not going to forget their violent ways any sooner than a rogue or spellcaster. However, it is important to calculate the new challenge rating of the player/players into experience awards and encounter difficulty <---On that note. The environment should react to the characters change. Kingdoms and townships will spy on the individual or search for ways to control or destroy the growing threat. Plotline enemies will adjust their tactics and equipment, hire giant kin dragon hunters, or call for extraplanar aid. Not to mention True Dragons that may be insulted by the mortal's actions. Thus, escalating the intensity of gameplay and leveling out experience awards.
Sounds like a fun group I hope this suggestion find you well. Game on.
You can add a magic item as a legendary quest that allowed true Polymorph to a GD only that is not permanent, throw in a line the soul and body always remains the original.
gives the Chr what they want you an epic quest for them and doesn’t mess up the game mechanics.
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I have a player that used true polymorph and became an adult gold dragon. Another player cast clone on it. So after the 120 days my player will be a dragon permanently. I know dragons get the shape shift ability. If my player shapeshifts into their previous form (human for ex.). Would they get all their original spells and abilities as normal?? Or how would you run that?
Is this 5e? True Polymorph becomes "permanent" after one hour.
With Change Shape, the dragon retains its proficiencies, Legendary Actions, resistances and Intelligence, Wisdom and Charisma scores. So while it can turn into a humanoid that looks like the original form, it would not be the original form. So I would rule that its human form would not have their original spells and abilities.
If they want to regain their original spells and abilities then they will need to have the True Polymorph dispelled. Or drop to zero hit points.
Yes this is 5e. After the 120 days my player will die and become the clone which will be a dragon. So there's no way they can become their original form again.
Well it depends according to the rules no they cant but if you want to let them shift into their old self than you could let them do that but it is ultimately up to you
Just a grung lover
Sounds like an interesting dilemma that I sort of ran into as I had an NPC permanently get turned into a Young Gold Dragon. If I'm understanding correctly, I guess that technically, there is nothing stopping a dragon from learning spells as a human Wizard/Sorcerer etc would, it's just the base dragons in the Monster Manual don't have that. No reason you couldn't homebrew, for instance, that an adult dragon has learned several spells over the years. So while I can't speak for the official rules off hand it makes sense that a human who turned into a dragon but maintained his or her memories, experience, etc would still have them.
It's up to you, but there could be differences. Maybe the change in the 'type' of energy a dragon wields vs a human makes the process of casting hard to do and they have to work to regain their previous levels. Maybe this expresses itself in having fewer spell slots, as a way to balance the bonus from having turned into a dragon. At some point if they lived for centuries they would adjust but in the immediate maybe that would keep things level?
RAW, no.
The Gold Dragon Polymorph explicitly states:
"In a new form, the dragon retains its alignment, hit points, Hit Dice, ability to speak, proficiencies, Legendary Resistance, lair actions, and Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores, as well as this action. Its statistics and capabilities are otherwise replaced by those of the new form, except any class features or legendary actions of that form."
Bolded section says no class features, so excepting a few spells from racial abilities, they are losing their levels.
However, RAW could scupper them even more:
"Change Shape. The dragon magically polymorphs into a humanoid or beast that has a challenge rating no higher than its own, or back into its true form. It reverts to its true form if it dies. Any equipment it is wearing or carrying is absorbed or borne by the new form (the dragon's choice).
In a new form, the dragon retains its alignment, hit points, Hit Dice, ability to speak, proficiencies, Legendary Resistance, lair actions, and Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores, as well as this action. Its statistics and capabilities are otherwise replaced by those of the new form, except any class features or legendary actions of that form."
So the dragon has 2 options, "New Form" and "True Form". Note that "True Form" does not say "Dragon Form". So the character went through some essentially cheap shenanigans to become a gold dragon. They then polymorph into themselves, and retain their abilities. Then they polymorph back into their "True Form", which is what they were before they were a dragon, and regain all their class abilities, and lose their dragon abilities.
So far as the game is concerned, as soon as a player has become a dragon, they should really become an NPC. Maybe let them play for a while, but throughout they should hear the call to lair up and accumulate gold. Discuss with the player that this is going to be the end of their adventuring and that they should roleplay this growing urge. Make it the climactic final fight before the gold dragon leaves to hide in a cave for a few hundred years. If things go down that way, the player might say their character tries to take all the gold, though a gold dragon is typically good.
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Certainly it would be fun to play a dragon, but talk about putting a load on the GM. How does a GM keep things fun and interesting, especially if there are other, less fantastic PCs involved as well? Will all the players want to be dragons, too? Some GMs could do it, perhaps even I could, but the prep time required to balance such an adventure would be daunting for someone like me.
Closest I came to this, and possibly an option depending on the story line: Hand an NPC Dragon over to the player, stats and all, and let them know that no matter how their play goes, that dragon will either be retired from play, or dead, at the end of this session. I was asked to do this once as an assistant DM, back in the 90s, and I had a ball playing the smartest, most cunning green dragon that I could be. After an interesting encounter, and a fierce battle, this dragon chose to live, and eventually abandoned its lair to the party, barely making it out alive. In that world, the dragon started over, elsewhere; it was never seen by that party again.
I would assume so but it’s your decision
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Rules as written I do not think this plan works.
True polymorph says
Meaning dieing to become the clone would end true polymorph and even if it didn't clone says
Meaning being reborn into the clone would keep your race and everything the same. If true polymorph was still in effect then you would be a polymorphed but nothing would change.
If you want it to work then it would require you to come up with your own rules in which case the players are basically creating a custom ritual to become a dragon. From the description they are trying to craft a biologically dragon body using transmutation magic and necromancy to transfer their soul into it. Personally I don't think that would automatically give them the magical significance of a dragon. They'd really be making a possessed dragon shaped flesh puppet and in my opinion such a creature wouldn't have a dragons normal lair actions, environmental effects and possibly not even their breath weapon. It may even be some kind of rotting undead monstrosity that angers gods and other dragons but good luck to them.
In my opinion this kind of thing is a legendary event that should be a quest line in and of itself as opposed to something done casually in down time but assuming they can pull it off. Assuming they can become a true dragon while maintaining their memories and any other powers they had and master the uncommon ability among dragons to shape change. Then sure they can have their old class levels while being a dragon. If what ever creature they end up as would be appropriate to fight for what ever you have planned as the boss then its a great epic moment. If it isn't then the final fight becomes defending that ritual from those trying to stop them which could be a different band of heroes, the original villain or possibly an uneasy alliance of both because ascending to being a dragon is probably as big a deal if not greater than what ever the villain is doing.
In this case I would advise allowing the player to keep all of their accumulated class levels and ability's. A fighter or barbarian is not going to forget their violent ways any sooner than a rogue or spellcaster. However, it is important to calculate the new challenge rating of the player/players into experience awards and encounter difficulty <---On that note. The environment should react to the characters change. Kingdoms and townships will spy on the individual or search for ways to control or destroy the growing threat. Plotline enemies will adjust their tactics and equipment, hire giant kin dragon hunters, or call for extraplanar aid. Not to mention True Dragons that may be insulted by the mortal's actions. Thus, escalating the intensity of gameplay and leveling out experience awards.
Sounds like a fun group I hope this suggestion find you well. Game on.
Honor, Integrity, Valor.
They would not be able to do that unless they had a challenge rating higher than that dragon.
You can add a magic item as a legendary quest that allowed true Polymorph to a GD only that is not permanent, throw in a line the soul and body always remains the original.
gives the Chr what they want you an epic quest for them and doesn’t mess up the game mechanics.