Full disclosure: from 1979 until three months ago I played first edition AD&D (off an on, mind you). I'm enjoying the 5e mechanics, so this is in no way a screed against the new version of the game.
With that said, I've noticed a lot of conversations about player backstories that make me wonder if newer DMs are confused about what things are core to the game, and what things are added as flavor for gamers that have been at this for a long time and want more connective tissue.
There are infinite ways to have fun at a table, but my experience tells me that the core of the game is exploration, adventure and carrying a big bag of loot back to the town. A big part of the excitement of winning, however, is taking risk. The places to explore simply must be deadly. They have to be. And I mean real death. Not we had to spend X number of coins on resurrection. But the kind of death where the monster ate the character and disappeared into the sea. The kind of death where the player may have to sit out for a short while (or take over an NPC) until they generate a new one. Obviously, this death may interfere with the finale of season 2 in which they are reunited with the ancient water god that forged their soul.
Look, backstory is fun for some players. Personally, when I play, every single one of my characters is an orphaned street urchin who is seeking fame and fortune. I get it that other players enjoy weaving an elaborate tale of their history and the quest that will fulfill their destiny. There is definitely something to be said for player buy-in. However, I'm here to tell you that every player I've ever met has been fully motivated by the allure of big shiny gems and badass swords. If the game is fun and well rounded, then the characters will earn an in-game story that will be much more memorable than the short story fan fiction they wrote one night after a party.
And everyone loves to roll dice.
I guess what I'm really saying is that as a DM you shouldn't get bogged down by writing specific adventures tailored to the backstory of your player characters. You should definitely listen to your players and shape the world to their tastes. But let the game develop organically. Give the players choices. Introduce neutral groups that can be befriended or fought. Make some monster encounters optional, make others avoidable, make it clear that trying to fight their way through the entire dungeon is nearly impossible, not because you're a cruel DM, but because they should be smart. They should sneak past a sleeping giant, or trick it with an illusion while the rogue quietly steals the loot. Your dungeon is a dangerous place and they'd better get their act together!
I realize this comes across as an old-man rant, but I really hope it's instead a bit liberating for you if you're wracking your brain about how to balance all the character arcs. If the dungeon is fun, the players will keep showing up.
I find this interesting. I've been DM'ing since '83 and have run every single edition.
What you share is a very 1st Edition perspective (and not in a bad way). What I find interesting about it is that I can feel the divergence from your experience and the path D&D took starting with 2nd Edition. In the 90s, RPGs of all forms, including TSR D&D via 2E, started to talk about roleplay, social motivations, and challenges that weren't all about killing things and taking their money.
As the 90s became the current century, this has maintained and grown. 5E D&D has three pillars of play:
Combat
Exploration
Social Interactions
Combat and Exploration fit well in the 1E mindset. I'd go as far as to say that 1E D&D really played well into Exploration. "I don't need to know why that's there; let's go inside and see what's there!" As DMs, folks like you and I may have known the entire story and shared it with players via that exploration, but there wasn't much need for a player to say, "...and this is why my character feels motivated to do this."
These days that can still stand and does quite well, but extra layers of motivation for characters lend to improved roleplay dynamics between the players and the characters in the setting.
As a DM, I am a world builder. I love sketching out wild ideas into adventure and story fodder, and I would say my game is writing a fantasy novel - it's both. The fun part of that mix is that I set the storyline up, and then the players write its progress and resolution via character actions.
I can write the intro. I can design the setting. I can give NPCs mountains of motivation. I can set problems before the characters to give them things to solve. What I can't do is tell them what to do and how to do it and then force that path.
I love the chaos of seeing what the players do, and when the characters are well-developed with backgrounds, histories, and motivations, the story is so much better.
So... no old-man rant back, just a reflection on how our paths may have differed, but neither created an invalid experience.
With that said, I've noticed a lot of conversations about player backstories that make me wonder if newer DMs are confused about what things are core to the game, and what things are added as flavor for gamers that have been at this for a long time and want more connective tissue.
No, newer DMs aren't "confused". The issue is that what is actually core to the game varies with the group.
There is no real confusion. Different people enjoy different versions of D&D. Some people are DMing a game that is a collaborative story telling. Or, as you put it, writing a fantasy novel. (In the case of Critical Role, a couple of animated streaming series.)
If you're DMing a module then there's very little the characters' backstories are going to affect it.
If you're DMing a dungeon crawl, the same thing.
If you're DMing a homebrew story focused campaign then the backstories play an important role in forming the adventures.
Basically, play the game the way you want to play it. Don't worry about the random internet strangers that claim your fun is wrong. They're probably the people who can't find a group to play with and are slightly jealous that you're playing the game they wish they could.
As a DM, I am a world builder. I love sketching out wild ideas into adventure and story fodder, and I would say my game is writing a fantasy novel - it's both.
We agree on almost everything. My post is intended for younger players who, according to the questions I see here and on Reddit, are struggling with character backstories. How to generate them and how the DM should resolve them. My point is that a very fun game can be had without worrying about it.
Ideally, the group can look back at the campaign and see the outlines of a cool story. In the novelized version of your campaign, however, there would need to be a lot of editing because the dice don't comply with the pre-envisioned story arc. Sometimes epic BBEG battles fizzle out, usually because the dice go one way or another. Other times, interaction with an NPC who was created on the spot can lead to a fun half-hour of banter or even a new plot hook. Novels follow rules about character arc and their resolution that games need not.
To be clear: this is a good thing and should be embraced! This goes for the DM as well as for the characters. My point is that neither side should get fixated on resolving character quests or epic showdowns when more fun is to be had in a different direction. I say this because I see a lot of young gamers stressing about backstory as if it is a critical element of the game's success when, in my opinion, it is secondary. Can character backstory add to the game? Clearly the answer is yes. But the tail shouldn't wag the dog. Cooperation is great, but ultimately the DM is running the game, and group fun should take precedence over the elaborate dreams of the players.
As an aside, these types of experiences have changed the way I design my dungeons. I have learned to go away from focusing on defeating the boss monster, and instead make procuring the magical mcguffin the focus. Challenging the BBEG thus becomes a choice, which allows me to make them more powerful, since the story doesn't end if the party fails, or wisely decides that they can't defeat the monster in battle.
And, yes, I am a random person on the internet. Your mileage my vary. Caveat, caveat.
I say this because I see a lot of young gamers stressing about backstory as if it is a critical element of the game's success when, in my opinion, it is secondary.
Bold used aboveto stress my point:
For you.
The best thing about Dungeons & Dragons and countless other TTRPGs is that the entire experience is subjective. There's no wrong way to play or focus. If you are having fun, you are doing it right. Caveat, caveat indeed.
The benefit of the Internet and modern communities like this is someone can legitimately make a post titled 'I Need Backstory Help'and they'll get it. They don't need to gnash their teeth and wring their hands in frustration. They can connect with people and have countless helpful ideas that enable them to have more fun by developing a backstory.
The trick for any of us is when we don't have anything to contribute to that conversation and need to help by saying nothing. Throwing down a "Backstory isn't important" comment is rarely helpful. By merit of the person asking for help and ideas, they say, "It's important to me."
this gal started playing with a few friends in 1979 — and we still play together today, with kids, grandkids, friends, kids friends, and new folks that just heard and joined us.
We’ve tried every version, played hundreds of different games, blah blah blah — our 1e influenced form of 5e is what we play today and we love it more.
that said, we were doing backstories as early as 1980. We had to — we ran what they call homebrew back then — modules were not a big thing, even though over the years we still did quite a few. But mostly they served as inspiration and idea factories for us. So we have always had backstories for our PCs.
as for what I run, I run a story that the players tell. Often, that story includes learning about the world they live in as they go, but mostly,it is about what these latest wacky heroes do as they stumble upon some nefarious plan, pick up a side job, figure out why that weird old guy is always around, deal with demons, save princesses, and generally go through life as they become more and more powerful.
We have 7 DMs in our group, and while I am the oldest, I am certainly not the only one. Each of us plays differently, has a different style, a different approach.
but we always have fun creating incredible worlds, and the one thing I can say that we have in common is we don’t use much “official lore” because it gets in the way of cool backstories that fit the different worlds that have been created.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities .-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-. An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more. Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
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Full disclosure: from 1979 until three months ago I played first edition AD&D (off an on, mind you). I'm enjoying the 5e mechanics, so this is in no way a screed against the new version of the game.
With that said, I've noticed a lot of conversations about player backstories that make me wonder if newer DMs are confused about what things are core to the game, and what things are added as flavor for gamers that have been at this for a long time and want more connective tissue.
There are infinite ways to have fun at a table, but my experience tells me that the core of the game is exploration, adventure and carrying a big bag of loot back to the town. A big part of the excitement of winning, however, is taking risk. The places to explore simply must be deadly. They have to be. And I mean real death. Not we had to spend X number of coins on resurrection. But the kind of death where the monster ate the character and disappeared into the sea. The kind of death where the player may have to sit out for a short while (or take over an NPC) until they generate a new one. Obviously, this death may interfere with the finale of season 2 in which they are reunited with the ancient water god that forged their soul.
Look, backstory is fun for some players. Personally, when I play, every single one of my characters is an orphaned street urchin who is seeking fame and fortune. I get it that other players enjoy weaving an elaborate tale of their history and the quest that will fulfill their destiny. There is definitely something to be said for player buy-in. However, I'm here to tell you that every player I've ever met has been fully motivated by the allure of big shiny gems and badass swords. If the game is fun and well rounded, then the characters will earn an in-game story that will be much more memorable than the short story fan fiction they wrote one night after a party.
And everyone loves to roll dice.
I guess what I'm really saying is that as a DM you shouldn't get bogged down by writing specific adventures tailored to the backstory of your player characters. You should definitely listen to your players and shape the world to their tastes. But let the game develop organically. Give the players choices. Introduce neutral groups that can be befriended or fought. Make some monster encounters optional, make others avoidable, make it clear that trying to fight their way through the entire dungeon is nearly impossible, not because you're a cruel DM, but because they should be smart. They should sneak past a sleeping giant, or trick it with an illusion while the rogue quietly steals the loot. Your dungeon is a dangerous place and they'd better get their act together!
I realize this comes across as an old-man rant, but I really hope it's instead a bit liberating for you if you're wracking your brain about how to balance all the character arcs. If the dungeon is fun, the players will keep showing up.
I find this interesting. I've been DM'ing since '83 and have run every single edition.
What you share is a very 1st Edition perspective (and not in a bad way). What I find interesting about it is that I can feel the divergence from your experience and the path D&D took starting with 2nd Edition. In the 90s, RPGs of all forms, including TSR D&D via 2E, started to talk about roleplay, social motivations, and challenges that weren't all about killing things and taking their money.
As the 90s became the current century, this has maintained and grown. 5E D&D has three pillars of play:
Combat and Exploration fit well in the 1E mindset. I'd go as far as to say that 1E D&D really played well into Exploration. "I don't need to know why that's there; let's go inside and see what's there!" As DMs, folks like you and I may have known the entire story and shared it with players via that exploration, but there wasn't much need for a player to say, "...and this is why my character feels motivated to do this."
These days that can still stand and does quite well, but extra layers of motivation for characters lend to improved roleplay dynamics between the players and the characters in the setting.
As a DM, I am a world builder. I love sketching out wild ideas into adventure and story fodder, and I would say my game is writing a fantasy novel - it's both. The fun part of that mix is that I set the storyline up, and then the players write its progress and resolution via character actions.
I can write the intro. I can design the setting. I can give NPCs mountains of motivation. I can set problems before the characters to give them things to solve. What I can't do is tell them what to do and how to do it and then force that path.
I love the chaos of seeing what the players do, and when the characters are well-developed with backgrounds, histories, and motivations, the story is so much better.
So... no old-man rant back, just a reflection on how our paths may have differed, but neither created an invalid experience.
No, newer DMs aren't "confused". The issue is that what is actually core to the game varies with the group.
There is no real confusion. Different people enjoy different versions of D&D. Some people are DMing a game that is a collaborative story telling. Or, as you put it, writing a fantasy novel. (In the case of Critical Role, a couple of animated streaming series.)
Basically, play the game the way you want to play it. Don't worry about the random internet strangers that claim your fun is wrong. They're probably the people who can't find a group to play with and are slightly jealous that you're playing the game they wish they could.
We agree on almost everything. My post is intended for younger players who, according to the questions I see here and on Reddit, are struggling with character backstories. How to generate them and how the DM should resolve them. My point is that a very fun game can be had without worrying about it.
Ideally, the group can look back at the campaign and see the outlines of a cool story. In the novelized version of your campaign, however, there would need to be a lot of editing because the dice don't comply with the pre-envisioned story arc. Sometimes epic BBEG battles fizzle out, usually because the dice go one way or another. Other times, interaction with an NPC who was created on the spot can lead to a fun half-hour of banter or even a new plot hook. Novels follow rules about character arc and their resolution that games need not.
To be clear: this is a good thing and should be embraced! This goes for the DM as well as for the characters. My point is that neither side should get fixated on resolving character quests or epic showdowns when more fun is to be had in a different direction. I say this because I see a lot of young gamers stressing about backstory as if it is a critical element of the game's success when, in my opinion, it is secondary. Can character backstory add to the game? Clearly the answer is yes. But the tail shouldn't wag the dog. Cooperation is great, but ultimately the DM is running the game, and group fun should take precedence over the elaborate dreams of the players.
As an aside, these types of experiences have changed the way I design my dungeons. I have learned to go away from focusing on defeating the boss monster, and instead make procuring the magical mcguffin the focus. Challenging the BBEG thus becomes a choice, which allows me to make them more powerful, since the story doesn't end if the party fails, or wisely decides that they can't defeat the monster in battle.
And, yes, I am a random person on the internet. Your mileage my vary. Caveat, caveat.
Bold used aboveto stress my point:
For you.
The best thing about Dungeons & Dragons and countless other TTRPGs is that the entire experience is subjective. There's no wrong way to play or focus. If you are having fun, you are doing it right. Caveat, caveat indeed.
The benefit of the Internet and modern communities like this is someone can legitimately make a post titled 'I Need Backstory Help' and they'll get it. They don't need to gnash their teeth and wring their hands in frustration. They can connect with people and have countless helpful ideas that enable them to have more fun by developing a backstory.
The trick for any of us is when we don't have anything to contribute to that conversation and need to help by saying nothing. Throwing down a "Backstory isn't important" comment is rarely helpful. By merit of the person asking for help and ideas, they say, "It's important to me."
Howdy!
this gal started playing with a few friends in 1979 — and we still play together today, with kids, grandkids, friends, kids friends, and new folks that just heard and joined us.
We’ve tried every version, played hundreds of different games, blah blah blah — our 1e influenced form of 5e is what we play today and we love it more.
that said, we were doing backstories as early as 1980. We had to — we ran what they call homebrew back then — modules were not a big thing, even though over the years we still did quite a few. But mostly they served as inspiration and idea factories for us. So we have always had backstories for our PCs.
as for what I run, I run a story that the players tell. Often, that story includes learning about the world they live in as they go, but mostly,it is about what these latest wacky heroes do as they stumble upon some nefarious plan, pick up a side job, figure out why that weird old guy is always around, deal with demons, save princesses, and generally go through life as they become more and more powerful.
We have 7 DMs in our group, and while I am the oldest, I am certainly not the only one. Each of us plays differently, has a different style, a different approach.
but we always have fun creating incredible worlds, and the one thing I can say that we have in common is we don’t use much “official lore” because it gets in the way of cool backstories that fit the different worlds that have been created.
Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities
.-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-.
An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more.
Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds