I've been DM'ing for a couple of years now, and I keep running into different types of players that cause real problems. Just wondering how to solve some of the issues I run into.
Person 1
Doesn't follow their Character alignment, and resists the suggestions I give them to follow their alignment.
Person 2
Literal Leroy Jenkins. Zero planning, zero warning attacks on things that might have been neutral, no matter what character he plays.
Person 3
Thinks he knows the rules better then me and gets angry when I bend rules for certain players or homebrew.
Person 4
Rerolls dice frequently, and tells me that the last one doesnt count, and won't tell me what it is.
And occasionaly the whole group will give up on a puzzle, or doesnt try to solve it. They're in it for all of the violence and none of the story. (Which becomes maddening when I spend 2+ hours on Campaign prep.)
Just a couple of issues I've run into with players and i dont know how to solve them.... asking around to see what y'all think.
1. I had a player that didn't follow the alignment. After a few talks he did however. If he hadn't I would've switched the alignment for him. He plays a cleric which would've made it all the more easier. Because if paladins/clerics don't behave as their alignment they'll lose the divine support/favor from their patrons. Meaning less, to no access to their spells. Until they improve it again. You can apply this to anything and anyone with its own penalties. As long as they make sense. If they keep killing then the local law and authorities will come after them. Or if they do wrong by certain NPC's that character could be followed and killed by a strong bountyhunter. Or they could be tricked to get hired to look for a relic which will actually curse them. I'm of the opinion. First talk with the player. If you can't come to a solution then they just have to feel the pain of their decisions.
2. Just ignore this type of player. They'll keep dying plenty if they keep that up. Got no one to blame, but themselves.
3. This one is tricky. Talk with this type of player. Make it clear that you, the DM, makes the final call. Even if it might not be according to what the book says. He either accepts that or you remove him from the group. Every DM has their own style of play. As long as you communicate that upfront, and everyone agrees to it... then players can't complain about it.
4. Have this player roll his dice in the open for everyone to see. Or he simply doesn't get too play.
5. Your players seem to enjoy combat with little narrative. So give it to them. If you want to play a different style, but they don't. Then you have to come to the conclusion your play styles aren't on the same line. Stop DM'ing for such a group and find players that do line up with the kind of game you want to DM for.
That is up to you. Do you want to DM games that are some mild narrative with mostly combat? Or don't you? If you do then try to give the players what they want. If you don't want to DM such games then go find a group of players that are more in line with the story elements you like.
Doesn't follow their Character alignment, and resists the suggestions I give them to follow their alignment.
Alignments aren't anywhere near as restrictive anymore. There is almost no mechanical reason for a player to concern themselves with it unless they're a Paladin, and even then it's barely useful. If alignments are a thing in your game, and you intend on using them as a mechanic, then I would explain this in session 0. From there you need to show that there are real consequences to alignment and make it consistent. As their alignment shifts more toward the chaotic or evil side of the spectrum have people fear and hide from them, have dieties abandon them or approach them. The key is to have real, and consistent and recognizable effects based on alignment or abandon alignment as a mere suggestion.
Literal Leroy Jenkins. Zero planning, zero warning attacks on things that might have been neutral, no matter what character he plays.
Nothing to worry about, actions have consequences. As a DM it's not your job to save them from themselves, it's your job to adjudicate the actions and tell an engaging story. You give them the arbitrary "Are you sure?" or "You are going to (repeat their words)?", give them the one chance to change their mind. After that, you simply tell them what happens and let the game, players, and dice do the rest.
Thinks he knows the rules better then me and gets angry when I bend rules for certain players or homebrew.
Let the player know that you appreciate the help when you make a mistake on a ruling. Even with 30 yrs of experience I make mistakes and have to be corrected. If they are being argumentative or rules lawyering for the sake of rules, explain that you are the DM and your word is final. As with anything else, consistency is key here, and talking to players is the most helpful. In some cases I've heard people say that they've appointed rules lawyers as de facto assistant adjudicators, I personally don't see that as helpful unless you're in a large group.
Rerolls dice frequently, and tells me that the last one doesnt count, and won't tell me what it is.
Announce to the table that they are to roll where everyone can see, leave the die where it lands, and don't touch it until that action has resolved. Simple rule that most people can abide by. If the player won't tell you what the original roll was, simply count it as a fail every time, they'll start to show you the results. Cheaters are kicked from a game, period.
And occasionaly the whole group will give up on a puzzle, or doesnt try to solve it. They're in it for all of the violence and none of the story. (Which becomes maddening when I spend 2+ hours on Campaign prep.)
Stop making puzzles or make simpler puzzles. Some groups don't want puzzles, some don't want intricate plot arcs, some don't want politics in their blood, not all groups are created equal. You, as a DM, are going to be required to work with an audience, else there is no game, if you don't like the audience you have...find a new one or learn to work with the one you have. In the case of puzzle accepting groups: If they choose to give up on it..then have it fail. Even if it is the big bad's lair entrance, they fail. Failure is real, just like death.
---
The hardest lesson I had to learn as a DM is much like the line from Fight Club "It's only after you lost everything that you are free to do anything." Let go of the wheel, stop trying to be in control, you aren't. The players are in control, you are simply the cogs behind the scenes making everything dance to the rhythm of the players' beat. Sure you put 2 hours into that dungeon, but I guarantee you the players will miss half of the stuff you thought was cool if you don't give them the subtle nudges and prods to go here. Once I learned how to loosen up, games got a lot more fun for my players and me. We remember what we didn't plan, not what went exactly to script.
So should I just create more combat situations, and give up on the bigger story I had brewing in the background?
have a look at some old AD&D adventures. send em on some dungeon hacks, they should love it. as for the puzzles i have always found that puzzles are best used as a method of securing loot. and sparingly at that, if for example you're going down the dungeon hack have them be hired by a powerful NPC to collect something from somewhere, that's all you need for story, make a dungeon. have them fight their way there stick their objective behind a puzzle or not doesn't really matter if they get no fun out of solving them then not. then have them fight their way back carrying the dead body of the fool who makes no plans and simply attacks. give them loot as a reward, the dead fool is going to need to use his share to be resurrected or even secure loans from his party mates if you want to be really cruel. once the realisation dawns that plans mean survival and thus more loot, that habit should curb itself. (only one thing to consider on that though, are they playing a really stupid fighter, if so it could be considered actual roleplaying. though doing so in towns should result in prison time or executions). as for the rules lawyer stick to the rules ;). untill something really dire happens to him according to the rules your other points i have nothing to add which isn't already completely covered by those who answered before me
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
All plans turn into, run into the room waving a sword and see what happens from there, once the first die gets rolled
There has already been solid advice given for all the points, but I thought I would expand on Person 4. I had a player that started off doing that and went through a series of phases after I put a stop to it. Right off the bat I just made his attack/action autofail whenever he rolled and then rerolled or attempted to conceal his result. Next up was the cocked die excuse on almost every roll so I made him start rolling on a much larger tray. It then turned into obsessively asking for advantage.
Just thought I would give you a heads up on what you might expect when trying to correct this behavior. It's much better now, but you need to set the tone and not let anyone get away with cheating. We play for fun not to win.
Thanks! Ill try some of these things. We meet tomorrow, so ill change it to more of a hack/slash and get rid of some of the politics and more complex puzzles.
Need to reduce you population of uppity, argumentative, disruptive players who argue your rulings at every turn? Do they make dire emergencies out of every inconvenience?
Have their most recently equipped item turn out to be a mimic. One biding its time before biting time.
Player character still alive? Player still being argumentative and disruptive? "WELL WILL YOU LOOK AT THAT! That mimic wasn't alone! Boy, Anon, you really need to be more careful with what you strap onto your body."
Player takes offense that you keep pulling random mimics out of thin air? "You mean like this?" and another mimic appears.
"Please stop with the mimics!" "Did someone say mimic?!"
And the cycle continues until the disruptive player leaves, or is left a broken and apologetic mass of compliance.
SURGEON GENERAL ADVISORY: Following Sam_Hain's advise can lead to unexpected and undesirable side effects such as sudden loss of players or friends, unexplained increase in haters, bouts of authoritarian power trips, or an unhealthy obsession with or fear of common every day objects being mimics.
Hey there.
I've been DM'ing for a couple of years now, and I keep running into different types of players that cause real problems. Just wondering how to solve some of the issues I run into.
Person 1
Doesn't follow their Character alignment, and resists the suggestions I give them to follow their alignment.
Person 2
Literal Leroy Jenkins. Zero planning, zero warning attacks on things that might have been neutral, no matter what character he plays.
Person 3
Thinks he knows the rules better then me and gets angry when I bend rules for certain players or homebrew.
Person 4
Rerolls dice frequently, and tells me that the last one doesnt count, and won't tell me what it is.
And occasionaly the whole group will give up on a puzzle, or doesnt try to solve it. They're in it for all of the violence and none of the story. (Which becomes maddening when I spend 2+ hours on Campaign prep.)
Just a couple of issues I've run into with players and i dont know how to solve them.... asking around to see what y'all think.
1. I had a player that didn't follow the alignment. After a few talks he did however. If he hadn't I would've switched the alignment for him. He plays a cleric which would've made it all the more easier. Because if paladins/clerics don't behave as their alignment they'll lose the divine support/favor from their patrons. Meaning less, to no access to their spells. Until they improve it again. You can apply this to anything and anyone with its own penalties. As long as they make sense. If they keep killing then the local law and authorities will come after them. Or if they do wrong by certain NPC's that character could be followed and killed by a strong bountyhunter. Or they could be tricked to get hired to look for a relic which will actually curse them. I'm of the opinion. First talk with the player. If you can't come to a solution then they just have to feel the pain of their decisions.
2. Just ignore this type of player. They'll keep dying plenty if they keep that up. Got no one to blame, but themselves.
3. This one is tricky. Talk with this type of player. Make it clear that you, the DM, makes the final call. Even if it might not be according to what the book says. He either accepts that or you remove him from the group. Every DM has their own style of play. As long as you communicate that upfront, and everyone agrees to it... then players can't complain about it.
4. Have this player roll his dice in the open for everyone to see. Or he simply doesn't get too play.
5. Your players seem to enjoy combat with little narrative. So give it to them. If you want to play a different style, but they don't. Then you have to come to the conclusion your play styles aren't on the same line. Stop DM'ing for such a group and find players that do line up with the kind of game you want to DM for.
Thanks, Giblix.
So should I just create more combat situations, and give up on the bigger story I had brewing in the background?
That is up to you. Do you want to DM games that are some mild narrative with mostly combat? Or don't you? If you do then try to give the players what they want. If you don't want to DM such games then go find a group of players that are more in line with the story elements you like.
Alignments aren't anywhere near as restrictive anymore. There is almost no mechanical reason for a player to concern themselves with it unless they're a Paladin, and even then it's barely useful. If alignments are a thing in your game, and you intend on using them as a mechanic, then I would explain this in session 0. From there you need to show that there are real consequences to alignment and make it consistent. As their alignment shifts more toward the chaotic or evil side of the spectrum have people fear and hide from them, have dieties abandon them or approach them. The key is to have real, and consistent and recognizable effects based on alignment or abandon alignment as a mere suggestion.
Nothing to worry about, actions have consequences. As a DM it's not your job to save them from themselves, it's your job to adjudicate the actions and tell an engaging story. You give them the arbitrary "Are you sure?" or "You are going to (repeat their words)?", give them the one chance to change their mind. After that, you simply tell them what happens and let the game, players, and dice do the rest.
Let the player know that you appreciate the help when you make a mistake on a ruling. Even with 30 yrs of experience I make mistakes and have to be corrected. If they are being argumentative or rules lawyering for the sake of rules, explain that you are the DM and your word is final. As with anything else, consistency is key here, and talking to players is the most helpful. In some cases I've heard people say that they've appointed rules lawyers as de facto assistant adjudicators, I personally don't see that as helpful unless you're in a large group.
Announce to the table that they are to roll where everyone can see, leave the die where it lands, and don't touch it until that action has resolved. Simple rule that most people can abide by. If the player won't tell you what the original roll was, simply count it as a fail every time, they'll start to show you the results. Cheaters are kicked from a game, period.
Stop making puzzles or make simpler puzzles. Some groups don't want puzzles, some don't want intricate plot arcs, some don't want politics in their blood, not all groups are created equal. You, as a DM, are going to be required to work with an audience, else there is no game, if you don't like the audience you have...find a new one or learn to work with the one you have. In the case of puzzle accepting groups: If they choose to give up on it..then have it fail. Even if it is the big bad's lair entrance, they fail. Failure is real, just like death.
---
The hardest lesson I had to learn as a DM is much like the line from Fight Club "It's only after you lost everything that you are free to do anything." Let go of the wheel, stop trying to be in control, you aren't. The players are in control, you are simply the cogs behind the scenes making everything dance to the rhythm of the players' beat. Sure you put 2 hours into that dungeon, but I guarantee you the players will miss half of the stuff you thought was cool if you don't give them the subtle nudges and prods to go here. Once I learned how to loosen up, games got a lot more fun for my players and me. We remember what we didn't plan, not what went exactly to script.
Hope this gives you something to work with!
have a look at some old AD&D adventures. send em on some dungeon hacks, they should love it.
as for the puzzles i have always found that puzzles are best used as a method of securing loot. and sparingly at that, if for example you're going down the dungeon hack have them be hired by a powerful NPC to collect something from somewhere, that's all you need for story, make a dungeon. have them fight their way there stick their objective behind a puzzle or not doesn't really matter if they get no fun out of solving them then not. then have them fight their way back carrying the dead body of the fool who makes no plans and simply attacks. give them loot as a reward, the dead fool is going to need to use his share to be resurrected or even secure loans from his party mates if you want to be really cruel. once the realisation dawns that plans mean survival and thus more loot, that habit should curb itself. (only one thing to consider on that though, are they playing a really stupid fighter, if so it could be considered actual roleplaying. though doing so in towns should result in prison time or executions).
as for the rules lawyer stick to the rules ;). untill something really dire happens to him according to the rules
your other points i have nothing to add which isn't already completely covered by those who answered before me
All plans turn into, run into the room waving a sword and see what happens from there, once the first die gets rolled
There has already been solid advice given for all the points, but I thought I would expand on Person 4. I had a player that started off doing that and went through a series of phases after I put a stop to it. Right off the bat I just made his attack/action autofail whenever he rolled and then rerolled or attempted to conceal his result. Next up was the cocked die excuse on almost every roll so I made him start rolling on a much larger tray. It then turned into obsessively asking for advantage.
Just thought I would give you a heads up on what you might expect when trying to correct this behavior. It's much better now, but you need to set the tone and not let anyone get away with cheating. We play for fun not to win.
Thanks! Ill try some of these things. We meet tomorrow, so ill change it to more of a hack/slash and get rid of some of the politics and more complex puzzles.
I'll tell you how it goes!
Alternatively to all the advice provided above, I would like to drop my universal problematic player solution, as originally posted here.
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Sam Hain's Guide to Dealing with Problem Players:
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