For years, D&D was explicit in meanings and normally the rules were wordy to make sure no vague rules interpretation could happen. Well along comes 2024.
Nice book, well designed, on the surface the rules look good, the layout and glossary make everything quick and easy.
Then you run into rule vagueness, sure a lot of these may seem to imply a thing. But D&D has always tried to avoid implied rules.
Speed
A creature has a Speed, which is the distance in feet the creature can cover when it moves on its turn. See also “Climbing,” “Crawling,” “Flying,” “Jumping,” “Swimming” and chapter 1 (“Combat”).
Special Speeds. Some creatures have special speeds, such as a Burrow Speed, Climb Speed, Fly Speed, or Swim Speed, each of which is defined in this glossary. If you have more than one speed, choose which one to use when you move; you can switch between the speeds during your move. Whenever you switch, subtract the distance already moved from the new speed. The result determines how much farther you can move. If the result is 0 or less, you can’t use the new speed during the current move. For example, if you have a Speed of 30 and a Fly Speed of 40, you could fly 10 feet, walk 10 feet, and leap into the air to fly 20 feet more.
Changes to Your Speeds. If an effect increases or decreases your Speed for a time, any special speed you have increases or decreases by an equal amount for the same duration. For example, if your Speed is reduced to 0 and you have a Climb Speed, your Climb Speed is also reduced to 0. Similarly, if your Speed is halved and you have a Fly Speed, your Fly Speed is also halved.
ok good, makes sense, really clear, so there will be rules that will increase the speed as well, awesome.
Level 2: Unarmored Movement
Your speed increases by 10 feet while you aren’t wearing armor or wielding a Shield. This bonus increases when you reach certain Monk levels, as shown on the Monk Features table.
nice, clear, movement increases.
Speedy
General Feat (Prerequisite: Level 4+, Dexterity or Constitution 13+)
You gain the following benefits.
Ability Score Increase. Increase your Dexterity or Constitution score by 1, to a maximum of 20.
Speed Increase. Your Speed increases by 10 feet.
Dash over Difficult Terrain. When you take the Dash action on your turn, Difficult Terrain doesn’t cost you extra movement for the rest of that turn.
Once again nice and concise. No question what it does.
Level 9: Brutal Strike
If you use Reckless Attack, you can forgo any Advantage on one Strength-based attack roll of your choice on your turn. The chosen attack roll mustn’t have Disadvantage. If the chosen attack roll hits, the target takes an extra 1d10 damage of the same type dealt by the weapon or Unarmed Strike, and you can cause one Brutal Strike effect of your choice. You have the following effect options.
Forceful Blow. The target is pushed 15 feet straight away from you. You can then move up to half your Speed straight toward the target without provoking Opportunity Attacks.
Hamstring Blow. The target’s Speed is reduced by 15 feet until the start of your next turn. A target can be affected by only one Hamstring Blow at a time—the most recent one.
huh...
Forceful Blow. The target is pushed 15 feet straight away from you. You can then move up to half your Speed straight toward the target without provoking Opportunity Attacks.
Wait, no mention of the speed rule, unclear, vague, can be read that it does or does not give bonus speed during this action.
Level 7: Instinctive Pounce
As part of the Bonus Action you take to enter your Rage, you can move up to half your Speed.
while not clear, this is a waste of text if it doesn't give bonus speed.
but even worse, as this was a raging debate from 2014 until Jeremy Crawford made a ruling.
1st JumpLegacy Transmutation • V, S, M 1 Action 1 Minute Touch Movement
1st
Casting Time
1 Action
Range/Area
Touch
Components
V, S, M *
Duration
1 Minute
School
Transmutation
Attack/Save
None
Damage/Effect
Movement
You touch a creature. The creature's jump distance is tripled until the spell ends.
* - (a grasshopper's hind leg)
which generated this ruling:
What happens when a jump spell gives a creature a jump distance greater than its walking speed?
Your jump is limited by how far you can move; each foot jumped uses a foot of movement. You can take the Dash action if you want to extend how far you can move on your turn.
For example, if you have a Strength score of 15, you can normally leap 15 feet when you make a long jump if you move at least 10 feet immediately beforehand. If the jump spell is cast on you, that potential jump distance is tripled. That’s a jump of 45 feet! If your speed is 30 feet, you can use only 30 feet of that jump distance on your turn, unless you take the Dash action, which allows you to leap the full 45 feet.
So you would think they would avoid the vagueness...
1st JumpTransmutation • V, S, M 1 Bonus Action 1 Minute Touch Movement
Level
1st
Casting Time
1 Bonus Action
Range/Area
Touch
Components
V, S, M *
Duration
1 Minute
School
Transmutation
Attack/Save
None
Damage/Effect
Movement
You touch a willing creature. Once on each of its turns until the spell ends, that creature can jump up to 30 feet by spending 10 feet of movement.
Using a Higher-Level Spell Slot. You can target one additional creature for each spell slot level above 1.
* - (a grasshopper’s hind leg)
As a DM I'm ruling in favor of the players, but seriously why are we seeing this vagueness in 2024.
Note if you don't get the issue, none of these abilities say you gain speed for the duration of the spell or ability, and while you can read into it to imply that it does, it does not actually give any additional movement with the wording.
Give the player half their movement speed in a "free" move, in the effects that do so. Calculate their full speed with all modifiers, half it, allow them to move that much as a "rider" during the action that triggered it, that has no bearing on their movement action.
If I am somehow misunderstanding your meaning, I apologise, and ask you to correct me on what you mean.
EDIT: Jump has always been stupid, but also pretty clear, ish. I will agree that is remains silly
There is no mention of the speed rule because it doesn't apply. The statement that you can move 15ft. means exactly that you can move 15ft. Presumably only having a speed of 0 would prevent you from moving 15ft. (That is probably the only fuzzy part about it whether having a speed of 0 would keep you from moving or not.)
For years, D&D was explicit in meanings and normally the rules were wordy to make sure no vague rules interpretation could happen. Well along comes 2024.
Nice book, well designed, on the surface the rules look good, the layout and glossary make everything quick and easy.
I have read some whoppers on this forum, this made coffee shoot out of my nose. Nothing more objectively false has ever been uttered in the history of this forum and D&D conversations.
What on earth are you on about m8. D&D rules from the original edition through to today has been nothing short of a writing and editing catastrophe. I'm actually 100% certain it was physically impossible to play the game RAW until about 3rd edition and even then it was on shaky footing. Like 4th edition was the first time the rules were clear enough that you could actually play the game rules as written, before that it was literally impossible.
Even today nearly 50 years later people are trying to decipher Gygaxian script or the word play of Cook, I'm not even 100% sure those guys actually spoke English.
For years, D&D was explicit in meanings and normally the rules were wordy to make sure no vague rules interpretation could happen. Well along comes 2024.
Nice book, well designed, on the surface the rules look good, the layout and glossary make everything quick and easy.
Then you run into rule vagueness, sure a lot of these may seem to imply a thing. But D&D has always tried to avoid implied rules.
ok good, makes sense, really clear, so there will be rules that will increase the speed as well, awesome.
nice, clear, movement increases.
Once again nice and concise. No question what it does.
huh...
Wait, no mention of the speed rule, unclear, vague, can be read that it does or does not give bonus speed during this action.
while not clear, this is a waste of text if it doesn't give bonus speed.
but even worse, as this was a raging debate from 2014 until Jeremy Crawford made a ruling.
1st JumpLegacy Transmutation • V, S, M 1 Action 1 Minute Touch Movement
which generated this ruling:
So you would think they would avoid the vagueness...
1st Jump Transmutation • V, S, M 1 Bonus Action 1 Minute Touch Movement
As a DM I'm ruling in favor of the players, but seriously why are we seeing this vagueness in 2024.
Note if you don't get the issue, none of these abilities say you gain speed for the duration of the spell or ability, and while you can read into it to imply that it does, it does not actually give any additional movement with the wording.
By many years, you mean roughly 2000-2012? 5e has always had plenty of vagueness and nonsense.
I don't think it's that vague.....
Give the player half their movement speed in a "free" move, in the effects that do so. Calculate their full speed with all modifiers, half it, allow them to move that much as a "rider" during the action that triggered it, that has no bearing on their movement action.
If I am somehow misunderstanding your meaning, I apologise, and ask you to correct me on what you mean.
EDIT: Jump has always been stupid, but also pretty clear, ish. I will agree that is remains silly
I go back to the 80s when I say for years. For me, 5th is still new, as it's only 10 years old where as I started D&D 40 years ago.
There is no mention of the speed rule because it doesn't apply. The statement that you can move 15ft. means exactly that you can move 15ft. Presumably only having a speed of 0 would prevent you from moving 15ft. (That is probably the only fuzzy part about it whether having a speed of 0 would keep you from moving or not.)
I have read some whoppers on this forum, this made coffee shoot out of my nose. Nothing more objectively false has ever been uttered in the history of this forum and D&D conversations.
What on earth are you on about m8. D&D rules from the original edition through to today has been nothing short of a writing and editing catastrophe. I'm actually 100% certain it was physically impossible to play the game RAW until about 3rd edition and even then it was on shaky footing. Like 4th edition was the first time the rules were clear enough that you could actually play the game rules as written, before that it was literally impossible.
Even today nearly 50 years later people are trying to decipher Gygaxian script or the word play of Cook, I'm not even 100% sure those guys actually spoke English.
Speed and Movement aren't usually the most vague part of 5E. This is a typical example of when an Exception Supercede General Rules.