So, the spell Find Steed, (shown at the bottom) is broken. I found this out after one of my players pointed it out. The idea is that you summon a warhorse. These sell for 500 gp. You then sell it to some rich guy who has the money. You then de-summon the horse and move to another town. Then rinse and repeat with a different person in a different city. Any ideas on what to do with this? I want to let him take it but I'm not sure I am okay with infinite money. I want to just make it so they can't do this infinitely.
Find Steed
Level
2nd
Casting Time
10 Minutes
Range/Area
30 ft
Components
V, S
Duration
Instantaneous
School
Conjuration
Attack/Save
None
Damage/Effect
Summoning
You summon a spirit that assumes the form of an unusually intelligent, strong, and loyal steed, creating a long-lasting bond with it. Appearing in an unoccupied space within range, the steed takes on a form that you choose: a warhorse, a pony, a camel, an elk, or a mastiff. (Your GM might allow other animals to be summoned as steeds.) The steed has the statistics of the chosen form, though it is a celestial, fey, or fiend (your choice) instead of its normal type. Additionally, if your steed has an Intelligence of 5 or less, its Intelligence becomes 6, and it gains the ability to understand one language of your choice that you speak.
Your steed serves you as a mount, both in combat and out, and you have an instinctive bond with it that allows you to fight as a seamless unit. While mounted on your steed, you can make any spell you cast that targets only you also target your steed.
When the steed drops to 0 hit points, it disappears, leaving behind no physical form. You can also dismiss your steed at any time as an action, causing it to disappear. In either case, casting this spell again summons the same steed, restored to its hit point maximum.
While your steed is within 1 mile of you, you can communicate with each other telepathically.
You can't have more than one steed bonded by this spell at a time. As an action, you can release the steed from its bond at any time, causing it to disappear.
They can't do it infinitely. There's a good chance they can't even do it once, because, well, someone planning on spending 500 gp on something might be willing to spend a little effort to check whether what they're buying is what the seller claims it is, and find steed does not in fact summon a horse -- it summons a celestial, fey, or fiend. At which point the PC gets charged with fraud and the situation likely goes downhill from there.
Also, as the DM, you can always rule that the NPC created from Find Steed is a bit more ethereal, to match the description of fey/fiend/celestial. Nothing big, but just enough of a shimmer to show that it's a summon and not a real horse.
This is a world where everybody lives around magic like this constantly - as Pentagruel said, people will have ways to check for these things (probably even standardized checklists when buying a potential summon in a bigger city!)
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I know what you're thinking: "In that flurry of blows, did he use all his ki points, or save one?" Well, are ya feeling lucky, punk?
Basing this on 2014 books/spell lists and just to throw it out there, but its a paladin spell so i'm assuming it's a paladin casting it and not another class who has got hold of it (such as a bard with magical secrets), then how is the player justiying it in character?
An Oath of Ancients is all about being the light and doing acts of kindness, mercy and forgiveness so I can't see them doing this.
Oath of Conquest might do it if it is part of trying to ruin someone but seems a bit petty for them.
Oath of the Crown is all about the Law so commiting fraud in this manner is a no no.
Oath of Devotion's very first tenet of their oath is Honesty, so they wouldn't do it.
Oath of Glory feels like a no to me as their first tenet is strive to be known by glorious deeds, which this isn't...unless its on such a grand scale that its a continent spanning crime spree that has songs made and sung in all the taverns of the land.
Oath of Redemption feels like a no to this act as they are all about attonement and peace.
Oath of Vengeance is a bit of a grey one as they might do it but als o might seek out people pulling these shennanigans.
Oath of Watchers seem a bit too rigid in their tenents to go out and do this to make money.
Oathbreakers are well.......maybe the end result of conducting that sort of action.
Infinite money? They'll get a reputation and be hunted down by debt collectors and worse. This is how you make the sort of enemies you can't stab away. Someone with 500gp to buy a steed is someone with the money to get their retribution. The character(s) should be hunted as a thief, subject to jailing, etc.
All of which is to say that allowing this will only work in cities where the character and their known associates are not known at all and everywhere they go the list of people who want their money back (and more) grows. Until there is no safe harbor. It's a good recurring storyline seed :)
So, the spell Find Steed, (shown at the bottom) is broken. I found this out after one of my players pointed it out. The idea is that you summon a warhorse. These sell for 500 gp. You then sell it to some rich guy who has the money. You then de-summon the horse and move to another town. Then rinse and repeat with a different person in a different city. Any ideas on what to do with this? I want to let him take it but I'm not sure I am okay with infinite money. I want to just make it so they can't do this infinitely.
Find Steed
Level
2nd
Casting Time
10 Minutes
Range/Area
30 ft
Components
V, S
Duration
Instantaneous
School
Conjuration
Attack/Save
None
Damage/Effect
Summoning
You summon a spirit that assumes the form of an unusually intelligent, strong, and loyal steed, creating a long-lasting bond with it. Appearing in an unoccupied space within range, the steed takes on a form that you choose: a warhorse, a pony, a camel, an elk, or a mastiff. (Your GM might allow other animals to be summoned as steeds.) The steed has the statistics of the chosen form, though it is a celestial, fey, or fiend (your choice) instead of its normal type. Additionally, if your steed has an Intelligence of 5 or less, its Intelligence becomes 6, and it gains the ability to understand one language of your choice that you speak.
Your steed serves you as a mount, both in combat and out, and you have an instinctive bond with it that allows you to fight as a seamless unit. While mounted on your steed, you can make any spell you cast that targets only you also target your steed.
When the steed drops to 0 hit points, it disappears, leaving behind no physical form. You can also dismiss your steed at any time as an action, causing it to disappear. In either case, casting this spell again summons the same steed, restored to its hit point maximum.
While your steed is within 1 mile of you, you can communicate with each other telepathically.
You can't have more than one steed bonded by this spell at a time. As an action, you can release the steed from its bond at any time, causing it to disappear.
Any help is appreciated. Thanks
Let him do it about twice. Then he sells his horse to someone who is either a wizard or has a wizard as a retainer. At which point the wizard goes after the PCs. They probably kill the wizard at which point they learn the wizard belong to a high ranking thieves guild. Helps if the guild has a tattoo.
In a world where fabricate and weapon bond and similar shenanigans exist, merchants are going to be wise for tactics like this.
Also, dishonest sellers are going to use tricks like this on the players.
The way to deal with a player repeatedly (once or twice is fine) doing stuff like this is to have their sword suddenly disappear as the EK summons their bonded wepaon back. *evil grin*
As others have said, this won't happen overly much. However, if they really devote time to it, why not let them?
Here are two scenarios to consider.
1. The player says "As we're stopping, I will go and sell my summoned horse to get 500gp for free.". They have put in minimal effort, and as such, the world will treat them accordingly. They will be recognised as "the Horse Fraud Guy" from rumour, and will be arrested and so forth.
2. The player asks "Are there any notable noblefolk in this area who might be looking for a horse? I will use my disguise kit, with help from the rogue who's proficient in it, to make myself up as Ignio Feluziar, a down-on-his-luck semi-noble from the desert regions who needs to sell his finest horse to get home after a bad run at cards, but he wants it to go to someone who will appreciate such a fine and enchanting beast". They have obviously put effort in, you can run a short roleplay section for them to bluff the encounter, and there is no reason for them to be recognised. The effort is worth the reward of a few hundred (the noble will haggle down, potentially offering passage "home" on their trade ships as part of payment, for example), and they can flex their character in a new and fun way.
Just saying "I do this, gold now please" deserves in-game punishments in line with lazy con-artistry, like being arrested. Putting in effort deserves rewards and long-term consequences, like a later arc of the noble being revealed as a crime boss when he's hiring the party to find this Ignio who swindled him - uh oh, time to find a scapegoat or leave the country!
I really like that. Besides, my characters are level 13, they have enough money already, 500gp for a short bit of roleplay and some half-decent rolls sounds like a semi-fair way of dealing with it. Definitely implementing this in my campaign.
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So, the spell Find Steed, (shown at the bottom) is broken. I found this out after one of my players pointed it out. The idea is that you summon a warhorse. These sell for 500 gp. You then sell it to some rich guy who has the money. You then de-summon the horse and move to another town. Then rinse and repeat with a different person in a different city. Any ideas on what to do with this? I want to let him take it but I'm not sure I am okay with infinite money. I want to just make it so they can't do this infinitely.
Find Steed
You summon a spirit that assumes the form of an unusually intelligent, strong, and loyal steed, creating a long-lasting bond with it. Appearing in an unoccupied space within range, the steed takes on a form that you choose: a warhorse, a pony, a camel, an elk, or a mastiff. (Your GM might allow other animals to be summoned as steeds.) The steed has the statistics of the chosen form, though it is a celestial, fey, or fiend (your choice) instead of its normal type. Additionally, if your steed has an Intelligence of 5 or less, its Intelligence becomes 6, and it gains the ability to understand one language of your choice that you speak.
Your steed serves you as a mount, both in combat and out, and you have an instinctive bond with it that allows you to fight as a seamless unit. While mounted on your steed, you can make any spell you cast that targets only you also target your steed.
When the steed drops to 0 hit points, it disappears, leaving behind no physical form. You can also dismiss your steed at any time as an action, causing it to disappear. In either case, casting this spell again summons the same steed, restored to its hit point maximum.
While your steed is within 1 mile of you, you can communicate with each other telepathically.
You can't have more than one steed bonded by this spell at a time. As an action, you can release the steed from its bond at any time, causing it to disappear.
Any help is appreciated. Thanks
They can't do it infinitely. There's a good chance they can't even do it once, because, well, someone planning on spending 500 gp on something might be willing to spend a little effort to check whether what they're buying is what the seller claims it is, and find steed does not in fact summon a horse -- it summons a celestial, fey, or fiend. At which point the PC gets charged with fraud and the situation likely goes downhill from there.
Also, as the DM, you can always rule that the NPC created from Find Steed is a bit more ethereal, to match the description of fey/fiend/celestial. Nothing big, but just enough of a shimmer to show that it's a summon and not a real horse.
This is a world where everybody lives around magic like this constantly - as Pentagruel said, people will have ways to check for these things (probably even standardized checklists when buying a potential summon in a bigger city!)
I know what you're thinking: "In that flurry of blows, did he use all his ki points, or save one?" Well, are ya feeling lucky, punk?
Basing this on 2014 books/spell lists and just to throw it out there, but its a paladin spell so i'm assuming it's a paladin casting it and not another class who has got hold of it (such as a bard with magical secrets), then how is the player justiying it in character?
An Oath of Ancients is all about being the light and doing acts of kindness, mercy and forgiveness so I can't see them doing this.
Oath of Conquest might do it if it is part of trying to ruin someone but seems a bit petty for them.
Oath of the Crown is all about the Law so commiting fraud in this manner is a no no.
Oath of Devotion's very first tenet of their oath is Honesty, so they wouldn't do it.
Oath of Glory feels like a no to me as their first tenet is strive to be known by glorious deeds, which this isn't...unless its on such a grand scale that its a continent spanning crime spree that has songs made and sung in all the taverns of the land.
Oath of Redemption feels like a no to this act as they are all about attonement and peace.
Oath of Vengeance is a bit of a grey one as they might do it but als o might seek out people pulling these shennanigans.
Oath of Watchers seem a bit too rigid in their tenents to go out and do this to make money.
Oathbreakers are well.......maybe the end result of conducting that sort of action.
Infinite money? They'll get a reputation and be hunted down by debt collectors and worse. This is how you make the sort of enemies you can't stab away. Someone with 500gp to buy a steed is someone with the money to get their retribution. The character(s) should be hunted as a thief, subject to jailing, etc.
All of which is to say that allowing this will only work in cities where the character and their known associates are not known at all and everywhere they go the list of people who want their money back (and more) grows. Until there is no safe harbor. It's a good recurring storyline seed :)
Let him do it about twice. Then he sells his horse to someone who is either a wizard or has a wizard as a retainer. At which point the wizard goes after the PCs. They probably kill the wizard at which point they learn the wizard belong to a high ranking thieves guild. Helps if the guild has a tattoo.
In a world where fabricate and weapon bond and similar shenanigans exist, merchants are going to be wise for tactics like this.
Also, dishonest sellers are going to use tricks like this on the players.
The way to deal with a player repeatedly (once or twice is fine) doing stuff like this is to have their sword suddenly disappear as the EK summons their bonded wepaon back. *evil grin*
As others have said, this won't happen overly much. However, if they really devote time to it, why not let them?
Here are two scenarios to consider.
1. The player says "As we're stopping, I will go and sell my summoned horse to get 500gp for free.". They have put in minimal effort, and as such, the world will treat them accordingly. They will be recognised as "the Horse Fraud Guy" from rumour, and will be arrested and so forth.
2. The player asks "Are there any notable noblefolk in this area who might be looking for a horse? I will use my disguise kit, with help from the rogue who's proficient in it, to make myself up as Ignio Feluziar, a down-on-his-luck semi-noble from the desert regions who needs to sell his finest horse to get home after a bad run at cards, but he wants it to go to someone who will appreciate such a fine and enchanting beast". They have obviously put effort in, you can run a short roleplay section for them to bluff the encounter, and there is no reason for them to be recognised. The effort is worth the reward of a few hundred (the noble will haggle down, potentially offering passage "home" on their trade ships as part of payment, for example), and they can flex their character in a new and fun way.
Just saying "I do this, gold now please" deserves in-game punishments in line with lazy con-artistry, like being arrested. Putting in effort deserves rewards and long-term consequences, like a later arc of the noble being revealed as a crime boss when he's hiring the party to find this Ignio who swindled him - uh oh, time to find a scapegoat or leave the country!
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I really like that. Besides, my characters are level 13, they have enough money already, 500gp for a short bit of roleplay and some half-decent rolls sounds like a semi-fair way of dealing with it. Definitely implementing this in my campaign.