I am a relatively new DM, and I am running my first campaign. I want to create a shorter arc where one of the PC’s backstory comes into play. They are a grifter, who only cares about themselves, money, and their wife. Now, they gambled big and lost, so the group that they gambled with kidnapped his wife. This group, I have decided, is The Xanathar’s Thieves Guild.
I want them to be nearly to the point where he has all the money he needs to repay the guild, and then have someone (who later turns out to be from the guild) steal the money. They find out it was the guild who robbed them, and they plan a break in to rescue his wife, steal back their money, and possibly take revenge.
I should be able to muddle through planning out the layout of the hideout, just a dungeon more or less, and I know that the head of the guild, The Xanathar, would be paranoid and prepared with traps, magic items and all sorts of goons. But, I don’t know how to plan out the more impactful parts of this story. Like, what happens if they do kill Xanathar? Will it destabilize the underworld of Waterdeep? Or, what if he bargains with them? What happens if they decide to kill his wife in retaliation for the attack? Or if they manage to rescue her? Should she want to be rescued, or has she decided the guild is a lifestyle more suited to her? I am no writer, so here I am, asking more seasoned DM’s for any advice they might be able to give.
Well I hate to say it, but a lot of the questions you asked, only you have the answers to. But I think you have asked a lot of good questions. Just think about the motives of the NPCs and what you think they would do. For instance, me personally, if the xanathar was killed, I’d think other rival crime organizations would see that as an opportunity for them to rise to prominence in the city. But you’ll just have to think on that yourself. Also, don’t even worry about it until it happens. Maybe keep the possibility in your head but there is no guarantee that will occur. Using the wife as a bargaining chip could very well be a good move from the guild, “we’ll give her back if you do ______ for us”
Has she decided the guild life is for her? Only you know how they are treating her and what her life is like with the guild, that could very well be the case. Depends why they kidnapped her in the first place I suppose and what their future plans for her are.
But in general don’t get too caught up in what might occur and just worry about what does occur. I prepare for what I think are the most likely outcomes based on knowing my player’s tendencies and just what seems most likely, but sometimes they do something completely unexpected. If that happens and you need a moment to think, call for a snack break or bathroom break and consider all the motives and factors, if the session has been going awhile, just end the session so you have a week or two to think about how the events will impact the future. Just do your best and it’ll all be fine lol.
Now this is just me brainstorming a bit. Do they know it’s the xanathars thieves guild that kidnapped her yet? I like the idea that someone slips a note or a random kid comes up to them and hands them a note. It’s written in his wife’s handwriting but it’s not from her perspective. “Bring the money, meet us at ______ and we’ll give your wife back” could even be written in blood. They don’t bring the wife and it’s an ambush, on the bodies is the symbol of the XTG. Then have to locate the hideout etc...
it can be tough sometimes, hope something here was helpful lol.
I am a relatively new DM, and I am running my first campaign. I want to create a shorter arc where one of the PC’s backstory comes into play. They are a grifter, who only cares about themselves, money, and their wife. Now, they gambled big and lost, so the group that they gambled with kidnapped his wife. This group, I have decided, is The Xanathar’s Thieves Guild.
I want them to be nearly to the point where he has all the money he needs to repay the guild, and then have someone (who later turns out to be from the guild) steal the money. They find out it was the guild who robbed them, and they plan a break in to rescue his wife, steal back their money, and possibly take revenge.
I should be able to muddle through planning out the layout of the hideout, just a dungeon more or less, and I know that the head of the guild, The Xanathar, would be paranoid and prepared with traps, magic items and all sorts of goons. But, I don’t know how to plan out the more impactful parts of this story. Like, what happens if they do kill Xanathar? Will it destabilize the underworld of Waterdeep? Or, what if he bargains with them? What happens if they decide to kill his wife in retaliation for the attack? Or if they manage to rescue her? Should she want to be rescued, or has she decided the guild is a lifestyle more suited to her? I am no writer, so here I am, asking more seasoned DM’s for any advice they might be able to give.
The Xanathar is extremely paranoid. It should have an escape plan for every given scenario, so no matter what, it should have a good chance of living to fight another day. Also, keep in mind that this Xanathar is not the first Xanathar, so a new Xanathar could come into power if the players kill the old one.
All stars fade. Some stars forever fall. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Homebrew (Mostly Outdated):Magic Items,Monsters,Spells,Subclasses ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If there was no light, people wouldn't fear the dark.
I just wanted to add something. I always like to build in "outs" for myself as a DM. Like, in this case, I would have to consider the possibility that the entire party might get killed or the character's wife might get killed, etc.
In the moment, that might be the most dramatic and "enjoyable" outcome for the players, but in case it's not, I'll have an out. For example, thieves guilds are not monolithic, loyal organizations. There's always rivals looking to garner power. It might not have been the Xanathar that ordered the character's gold stolen, and maybe that the member that stole the gold was acting against his will. The Xanathar being what it is, may decide to kill that member, thinking it was going to try to supplant him, or just because that member was lining their own pockets, etc. Or, maybe not even the Xanathar, but just another rival thieves' guild member. He might garner more influence within the guild if his rival is embarrassed or something, so he works to undermine the rival, but won't outwardly oppose him. So someone within the guild might be trying to make sure the party succeeds, in order to embarrass his rival.
I'm about as much of a player as I am a DM, but I have done a bit of writing. The main thing you're asking for help with is that you're trying to outthink your players. Don't do this. Basically for two reasons.
The first is that you're going to drive yourself crazy (like with this post) trying to think of every possible scenario and plan for it. What if X? What if Y? What if X, Y, and Z? Don't do that. It's a waste of your time you could better spend brainstorming fun NPCs, allies, magic items, and creatures to put in the campaign. It's okay to think about characterization (what might a character do?) instead of (what WILL a character do?)
The second reason is unless your group is really not very bright, they're going to see this kind of thing as railroading. If an outcome for an event is predetermined, even though it was triggered by player action, it's going to feel hollow unless you really finesse it well. My friend is always complaining that his DM routinely does this and he's about ready to leave the group cause of it.
My advice is this: Focus on the character of the villain(s). Are they vengeful? Are they cowardly? Sadistic? What is there goal? If you understand the primary and secondary goals of your antagonist (regardless of who they are) you'll be able to naturally figure out what they would do in 85% of scenarios. I don't know who Xanathar is, so I can't answer this question. But keep in mind that it's your game, so your version of Xanathar is almost certainly different than anyone else's unless you're reading from a script.
Mostly you're thinking too far ahead. "What happens if they kill Xanathar?" Well, it'll be frustrating if you come up with a brilliant plot, and then that doesn't happen.
I would say you're even thinking too far ahead to where they've stolen the money he needed to pay back. Maybe have an encounter where they try to steal it. They sneak in, and the players roll a perception check. If the bad guys roll good stealth, maybe they're in and out and succeed. Otherwise, probably a combat encounter. Or a chase. Or even social. Or all of the above. Even if the bad guys don't pull off the theft, maybe the players defeat them but keep one alive. Interrogating him reveals who sent them. Then maybe the players want to do your mission just for revenge.
What you're describing is somewhat railroading, which is not as bad as it sounds, and a railroaded game can still be fun and is probably easier as a new DM than a very open-ended game. If you want to defintely have those plot points, you can. But another way is to set up the villain's plans, and see how they play out according to the players' choices and rolls.
The character does, he knows who he owes money to. I thought I mentioned that, I must have missed it. He and his wife gambled and lost a ton of money that they didn't have. So they took her as collateral. I like the idea of having a kid deliver a nite though. But it's more of a "you owe us 2000gp, and you'll pay us so much per month until its paid off or she dies" kind of situation. But the actual player has left it up to me what happens from there. Maybe she was in on it all, maybe not, maybe she dies. I just want to give them a fun and investing game experience without upsetting or boring anyone.
I am a relatively new DM, and I am running my first campaign. I want to create a shorter arc where one of the PC’s backstory comes into play. They are a grifter, who only cares about themselves, money, and their wife. Now, they gambled big and lost, so the group that they gambled with kidnapped his wife. This group, I have decided, is The Xanathar’s Thieves Guild.
I want them to be nearly to the point where he has all the money he needs to repay the guild, and then have someone (who later turns out to be from the guild) steal the money. They find out it was the guild who robbed them, and they plan a break in to rescue his wife, steal back their money, and possibly take revenge.
I should be able to muddle through planning out the layout of the hideout, just a dungeon more or less, and I know that the head of the guild, The Xanathar, would be paranoid and prepared with traps, magic items and all sorts of goons. But, I don’t know how to plan out the more impactful parts of this story. Like, what happens if they do kill Xanathar? Will it destabilize the underworld of Waterdeep? Or, what if he bargains with them? What happens if they decide to kill his wife in retaliation for the attack? Or if they manage to rescue her? Should she want to be rescued, or has she decided the guild is a lifestyle more suited to her? I am no writer, so here I am, asking more seasoned DM’s for any advice they might be able to give.
The Xanathar is extremely paranoid. It should have an escape plan for every given scenario, so no matter what, it should have a good chance of living to fight another day. Also, keep in mind that this Xanathar is not the first Xanathar, so a new Xanathar could come into power if the players kill the old one.
I like that. If they do manage to kill him somehow another one is ready, or may e the new one helps them?
I'm about as much of a player as I am a DM, but I have done a bit of writing. The main thing you're asking for help with is that you're trying to outthink your players. Don't do this. Basically for two reasons.
The first is that you're going to drive yourself crazy (like with this post) trying to think of every possible scenario and plan for it. What if X? What if Y? What if X, Y, and Z? Don't do that. It's a waste of your time you could better spend brainstorming fun NPCs, allies, magic items, and creatures to put in the campaign. It's okay to think about characterization (what might a character do?) instead of (what WILL a character do?)
The second reason is unless your group is really not very bright, they're going to see this kind of thing as railroading. If an outcome for an event is predetermined, even though it was triggered by player action, it's going to feel hollow unless you really finesse it well. My friend is always complaining that his DM routinely does this and he's about ready to leave the group cause of it.
My advice is this: Focus on the character of the villain(s). Are they vengeful? Are they cowardly? Sadistic? What is there goal? If you understand the primary and secondary goals of your antagonist (regardless of who they are) you'll be able to naturally figure out what they would do in 85% of scenarios. I don't know who Xanathar is, so I can't answer this question. But keep in mind that it's your game, so your version of Xanathar is almost certainly different than anyone else's unless you're reading from a script.
I like that idea. Ill have to try and work on that. I've probably got a good while so I've got time.
I just wanted to add something. I always like to build in "outs" for myself as a DM. Like, in this case, I would have to consider the possibility that the entire party might get killed or the character's wife might get killed, etc.
In the moment, that might be the most dramatic and "enjoyable" outcome for the players, but in case it's not, I'll have an out. For example, thieves guilds are not monolithic, loyal organizations. There's always rivals looking to garner power. It might not have been the Xanathar that ordered the character's gold stolen, and maybe that the member that stole the gold was acting against his will. The Xanathar being what it is, may decide to kill that member, thinking it was going to try to supplant him, or just because that member was lining their own pockets, etc. Or, maybe not even the Xanathar, but just another rival thieves' guild member. He might garner more influence within the guild if his rival is embarrassed or something, so he works to undermine the rival, but won't outwardly oppose him. So someone within the guild might be trying to make sure the party succeeds, in order to embarrass his rival.
Okay, so say I wanted a rival to the Xanathar, another beholder, offer to help the party how would he/it approach them?
I probably wouldn't make it another beholder, as they're unlikely to partner with someone else who isn't effectively their underling or slave.
And, if it were me, I wouldn't have them directly approach the party anyways, so they have plausible deniability if the party fails. I would have them give the party help through back channels or through intentional ineptitude. For example, if they're trying to sneak into the Xanathar's hideout, they might "accidentally" overhear one of the guards at the bar complaining about how they're undermanned due to a pox going around, and how "Jethro" keeps falling asleep at his post.
I probably wouldn't make it another beholder, as they're unlikely to partner with someone else who isn't effectively their underling or slave.
And, if it were me, I wouldn't have them directly approach the party anyways, so they have plausible deniability if the party fails. I would have them give the party help through back channels or through intentional ineptitude. For example, if they're trying to sneak into the Xanathar's hideout, they might "accidentally" overhear one of the guards at the bar complaining about how they're undermanned due to a pox going around, and how "Jethro" keeps falling asleep at his post.
Stuff like that.
Maybe like a lieutenant of some kind? Maybe then if they get to the xanathar and either don't want to or can't quite kill him, and he can't escape they bargain. He already was paranoid about his underlings trying to take him down.
I am a relatively new DM, and I am running my first campaign. I want to create a shorter arc where one of the PC’s backstory comes into play. They are a grifter, who only cares about themselves, money, and their wife. Now, they gambled big and lost, so the group that they gambled with kidnapped his wife. This group, I have decided, is The Xanathar’s Thieves Guild.
I want them to be nearly to the point where he has all the money he needs to repay the guild, and then have someone (who later turns out to be from the guild) steal the money. They find out it was the guild who robbed them, and they plan a break in to rescue his wife, steal back their money, and possibly take revenge.
I should be able to muddle through planning out the layout of the hideout, just a dungeon more or less, and I know that the head of the guild, The Xanathar, would be paranoid and prepared with traps, magic items and all sorts of goons. But, I don’t know how to plan out the more impactful parts of this story. Like, what happens if they do kill Xanathar? Will it destabilize the underworld of Waterdeep? Or, what if he bargains with them? What happens if they decide to kill his wife in retaliation for the attack? Or if they manage to rescue her? Should she want to be rescued, or has she decided the guild is a lifestyle more suited to her? I am no writer, so here I am, asking more seasoned DM’s for any advice they might be able to give.
Well I hate to say it, but a lot of the questions you asked, only you have the answers to. But I think you have asked a lot of good questions. Just think about the motives of the NPCs and what you think they would do. For instance, me personally, if the xanathar was killed, I’d think other rival crime organizations would see that as an opportunity for them to rise to prominence in the city. But you’ll just have to think on that yourself. Also, don’t even worry about it until it happens. Maybe keep the possibility in your head but there is no guarantee that will occur. Using the wife as a bargaining chip could very well be a good move from the guild, “we’ll give her back if you do ______ for us”
Has she decided the guild life is for her? Only you know how they are treating her and what her life is like with the guild, that could very well be the case. Depends why they kidnapped her in the first place I suppose and what their future plans for her are.
But in general don’t get too caught up in what might occur and just worry about what does occur. I prepare for what I think are the most likely outcomes based on knowing my player’s tendencies and just what seems most likely, but sometimes they do something completely unexpected. If that happens and you need a moment to think, call for a snack break or bathroom break and consider all the motives and factors, if the session has been going awhile, just end the session so you have a week or two to think about how the events will impact the future. Just do your best and it’ll all be fine lol.
Now this is just me brainstorming a bit. Do they know it’s the xanathars thieves guild that kidnapped her yet? I like the idea that someone slips a note or a random kid comes up to them and hands them a note. It’s written in his wife’s handwriting but it’s not from her perspective. “Bring the money, meet us at ______ and we’ll give your wife back” could even be written in blood. They don’t bring the wife and it’s an ambush, on the bodies is the symbol of the XTG. Then have to locate the hideout etc...
it can be tough sometimes, hope something here was helpful lol.
The Xanathar is extremely paranoid. It should have an escape plan for every given scenario, so no matter what, it should have a good chance of living to fight another day. Also, keep in mind that this Xanathar is not the first Xanathar, so a new Xanathar could come into power if the players kill the old one.
All stars fade. Some stars forever fall.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Homebrew (Mostly Outdated): Magic Items, Monsters, Spells, Subclasses
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If there was no light, people wouldn't fear the dark.
I agree with the previous posters.
I just wanted to add something. I always like to build in "outs" for myself as a DM. Like, in this case, I would have to consider the possibility that the entire party might get killed or the character's wife might get killed, etc.
In the moment, that might be the most dramatic and "enjoyable" outcome for the players, but in case it's not, I'll have an out. For example, thieves guilds are not monolithic, loyal organizations. There's always rivals looking to garner power. It might not have been the Xanathar that ordered the character's gold stolen, and maybe that the member that stole the gold was acting against his will. The Xanathar being what it is, may decide to kill that member, thinking it was going to try to supplant him, or just because that member was lining their own pockets, etc. Or, maybe not even the Xanathar, but just another rival thieves' guild member. He might garner more influence within the guild if his rival is embarrassed or something, so he works to undermine the rival, but won't outwardly oppose him. So someone within the guild might be trying to make sure the party succeeds, in order to embarrass his rival.
**By the Light of the Sun, you will burn!**
Previously BENEFICENCE
DM: Storm Lord's Wrath || Syr Valor Dayne: Sleeping Gods || tooltips | guides | dice |
I'm about as much of a player as I am a DM, but I have done a bit of writing.
The main thing you're asking for help with is that you're trying to outthink your players. Don't do this. Basically for two reasons.
The first is that you're going to drive yourself crazy (like with this post) trying to think of every possible scenario and plan for it. What if X? What if Y? What if X, Y, and Z?
Don't do that. It's a waste of your time you could better spend brainstorming fun NPCs, allies, magic items, and creatures to put in the campaign. It's okay to think about characterization (what might a character do?) instead of (what WILL a character do?)
The second reason is unless your group is really not very bright, they're going to see this kind of thing as railroading. If an outcome for an event is predetermined, even though it was triggered by player action, it's going to feel hollow unless you really finesse it well. My friend is always complaining that his DM routinely does this and he's about ready to leave the group cause of it.
My advice is this: Focus on the character of the villain(s). Are they vengeful? Are they cowardly? Sadistic? What is there goal? If you understand the primary and secondary goals of your antagonist (regardless of who they are) you'll be able to naturally figure out what they would do in 85% of scenarios. I don't know who Xanathar is, so I can't answer this question. But keep in mind that it's your game, so your version of Xanathar is almost certainly different than anyone else's unless you're reading from a script.
Mostly you're thinking too far ahead. "What happens if they kill Xanathar?" Well, it'll be frustrating if you come up with a brilliant plot, and then that doesn't happen.
I would say you're even thinking too far ahead to where they've stolen the money he needed to pay back. Maybe have an encounter where they try to steal it. They sneak in, and the players roll a perception check. If the bad guys roll good stealth, maybe they're in and out and succeed. Otherwise, probably a combat encounter. Or a chase. Or even social. Or all of the above. Even if the bad guys don't pull off the theft, maybe the players defeat them but keep one alive. Interrogating him reveals who sent them. Then maybe the players want to do your mission just for revenge.
What you're describing is somewhat railroading, which is not as bad as it sounds, and a railroaded game can still be fun and is probably easier as a new DM than a very open-ended game. If you want to defintely have those plot points, you can. But another way is to set up the villain's plans, and see how they play out according to the players' choices and rolls.
The character does, he knows who he owes money to. I thought I mentioned that, I must have missed it. He and his wife gambled and lost a ton of money that they didn't have. So they took her as collateral. I like the idea of having a kid deliver a nite though. But it's more of a "you owe us 2000gp, and you'll pay us so much per month until its paid off or she dies" kind of situation. But the actual player has left it up to me what happens from there. Maybe she was in on it all, maybe not, maybe she dies. I just want to give them a fun and investing game experience without upsetting or boring anyone.
I like that. If they do manage to kill him somehow another one is ready, or may e the new one helps them?
I like that idea. Ill have to try and work on that. I've probably got a good while so I've got time.
Okay, so say I wanted a rival to the Xanathar, another beholder, offer to help the party how would he/it approach them?
I probably wouldn't make it another beholder, as they're unlikely to partner with someone else who isn't effectively their underling or slave.
And, if it were me, I wouldn't have them directly approach the party anyways, so they have plausible deniability if the party fails. I would have them give the party help through back channels or through intentional ineptitude. For example, if they're trying to sneak into the Xanathar's hideout, they might "accidentally" overhear one of the guards at the bar complaining about how they're undermanned due to a pox going around, and how "Jethro" keeps falling asleep at his post.
Stuff like that.
**By the Light of the Sun, you will burn!**
Previously BENEFICENCE
DM: Storm Lord's Wrath || Syr Valor Dayne: Sleeping Gods || tooltips | guides | dice |
Maybe like a lieutenant of some kind? Maybe then if they get to the xanathar and either don't want to or can't quite kill him, and he can't escape they bargain. He already was paranoid about his underlings trying to take him down.
Yeah, I think that is very believable and works really well.
**By the Light of the Sun, you will burn!**
Previously BENEFICENCE
DM: Storm Lord's Wrath || Syr Valor Dayne: Sleeping Gods || tooltips | guides | dice |